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Old 15th September 2020, 10:57 PM   #1841
Stacyhs
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It will go away very quickly over time. Uh huh. Is that like his "Probably definitely?

Polio went away without a vaccine. So did small pox. Oh, wait.

Herd mentality. You mean like when herds just follow their leader without thinking? Uh huh. Seems rather apropos for his supporters.
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Old 15th September 2020, 10:58 PM   #1842
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Biden should commit to a Covid-Response-Commission to make a Report on everything that went wrong and recommend changes.
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Old 16th September 2020, 12:29 AM   #1843
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According to the BBC, President Trump is now denying what he said to Woodward and is now apparently claiming he actually "up-played" the threat posed by the Coronavirus.

Quote:
US President Donald Trump has denied downplaying the seriousness of Covid-19, despite admitting in a recorded interview to having done that.

At a televised event with voters, Mr Trump said he had "up-played" it.

The claim contradicts comments Mr Trump made to journalist Bob Woodward earlier this year, when he said he minimised the virus's severity to avoid panic.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/election-us-2020-54172311

Has he really convinced himself that this is the case ?

Does he expect the US Electorate to believe him ?

Will they ?

It's quite astonishing how he can do this.
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Old 16th September 2020, 12:44 AM   #1844
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A doctor says not nearly as many people really die of flu as is commonly claimed, making comparisons to covid even less valid.
Quote:
Based on the CDC numbers though, I should have seen many, many more. In 2018, over 46,000 Americans died from opioid overdoses. Over 36,500 died in traffic accidents. Nearly 40,000 died from gun violence. I see those deaths all the time. Was I alone in noticing this discrepancy?

I decided to call colleagues around the country who work in other emergency departments and in intensive care units to ask a simple question: how many patients could they remember dying from the flu? Most of the physicians I surveyed couldn’t remember a single one over their careers. Some said they recalled a few. All of them seemed to be having the same light bulb moment I had already experienced: For too long, we have blindly accepted a statistic that does not match our clinical experience.
https://blogs.scientificamerican.com...es-to-oranges/
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Old 16th September 2020, 12:47 AM   #1845
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Originally Posted by The Don View Post
....
Has he really convinced himself that this is the case ?

Does he expect the US Electorate to believe him ?

Will they ?
....
1/ Probably not.

2/ Yes.

3/ His cultists will, and that's 40%+ of the electorate.
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Old 16th September 2020, 01:27 AM   #1846
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Originally Posted by The Don View Post
Has he really convinced himself that this is the case ?

Does he expect the US Electorate to believe him ?

Will they ?

It's quite astonishing how he can do this.
I'm echoing Bob001 a bit here, but...

1) Unlikely.
2) Well... toxic positivity and information bubbles, so he hopes they will?
3) Rather than believe - latch onto as an excuse might be more accurate, for those that do.

Moving on, though... further confirmation of the unfortunately obvious.

Trump officials interfered with CDC reports on Covid-19

Quote:
The health department’s politically appointed communications aides have demanded the right to review and seek changes to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention’s weekly scientific reports charting the progress of the coronavirus pandemic, in what officials characterized as an attempt to intimidate the reports’ authors and water down their communications to health professionals.

In some cases, emails from communications aides to CDC Director Robert Redfield and other senior officials openly complained that the agency’s reports would undermine President Donald Trump's optimistic messages about the outbreak, according to emails reviewed by POLITICO and three people familiar with the situation.

CDC officials have fought back against the most sweeping changes, but have increasingly agreed to allow the political officials to review the reports and, in a few cases, compromised on the wording, according to three people familiar with the exchanges. The communications aides’ efforts to change the language in the CDC’s reports have been constant across the summer and continued as recently as Friday afternoon.
Plenty of specifics follow the quoted.
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Old 16th September 2020, 01:35 AM   #1847
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Originally Posted by Bob001 View Post
A doctor says not nearly as many people really die of flu as is commonly claimed, making comparisons to covid even less valid.

https://blogs.scientificamerican.com...es-to-oranges/
Merely an argument from incredulity.

In short, “I’ve never witnessed deaths due to influenza, therefore figures are exaggerated.”.
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Old 16th September 2020, 01:49 AM   #1848
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Originally Posted by Bob001 View Post
A doctor says not nearly as many people really die of flu as is commonly claimed, making comparisons to covid even less valid.

https://blogs.scientificamerican.com...es-to-oranges/
Not so sure about his comment on pneumonia.
One of the reasons pneumonia is included is because it is often the result of the flu. Without having caught the flu then the dead person would not have caught pneumonia.
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Old 16th September 2020, 02:55 AM   #1849
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Canada extends closing its border to Americans by 30 more days, and 90% of Canadians support the ban

I... find myself agreeing with their decision and attitude, unfortunately.
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Old 16th September 2020, 06:09 AM   #1850
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the line was that more testing caused more cases.
Now it seems to be that more testing causes more deaths

STEPHANOPOULOS: You said we're doing better in mortality than other countries. We're not. Here's a chart

TRUMP: The excess mortality rate is among the best

S: The US has 4% of the population and more than 20% of the deaths

T: Well, we do much more testing
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Old 16th September 2020, 06:49 AM   #1851
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Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop View Post
the line was that more testing caused more cases.
Now it seems to be that more testing causes more deaths

STEPHANOPOULOS: You said we're doing better in mortality than other countries. We're not. Here's a chart

TRUMP: The excess mortality rate is among the best

S: The US has 4% of the population and more than 20% of the deaths

T: Well, we do much more testing


"Grandpa hasn't talked or moved in three days, and he's starting to smell funny. Should we call somebody?"
"No, he's just sulking. We don't need a know-it-all doctor trying to tell us he's 'dead' or anything crazy like that."
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Old 16th September 2020, 09:43 AM   #1852
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Originally Posted by Tolls View Post
Not so sure about his comment on pneumonia.
One of the reasons pneumonia is included is because it is often the result of the flu. Without having caught the flu then the dead person would not have caught pneumonia.


Pneumonia has multiple causes. The standard pneumonia vaccines protect against 13 or 23 kinds of bacteria that can cause pneumonia, and that's not all of them. It's a big stretch to think a pneumonia death must be the result of flu.

Last edited by Bob001; 16th September 2020 at 09:59 AM.
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Old 16th September 2020, 09:49 AM   #1853
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Originally Posted by EHocking View Post
Merely an argument from incredulity.

In short, “I’ve never witnessed deaths due to influenza, therefore figures are exaggerated.”.

He's a doctor. He says neither he nor colleagues he contacted have seen flu deaths, whereas they routinely see deaths from other causes for which a lower total count is reported.

He also explains that the standard "flu death" number is the result of a statistical calculation, which he contends may be wrong.
Quote:
The 25,000 to 69,000 numbers that Trump cited do not represent counted flu deaths per year; they are estimates that the CDC produces by multiplying the number of flu death counts reported by various coefficients produced through complicated algorithms. These coefficients are based on assumptions of how many cases, hospitalizations, and deaths they believe went unreported. In the last six flu seasons, the CDC’s reported number of actual confirmed flu deaths—that is, counting flu deaths the way we are currently counting deaths from the coronavirus—has ranged from 3,448 to 15,620, which far lower than the numbers commonly repeated by public officials and even public health experts.

Did you read the link?
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Old 16th September 2020, 11:58 AM   #1854
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United States
Coronavirus Cases:
6,805,335
Deaths:
200,861

Oh sir! It's going away, just as you promised!! Maybe it's the herd mentality!!!
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Old 16th September 2020, 12:06 PM   #1855
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Originally Posted by Resume View Post
United States
Coronavirus Cases:
6,805,335
Deaths:
200,861

Oh sir! It's going away, just as you promised!! Maybe it's the herd mentality!!!
Is it April?
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Old 16th September 2020, 12:42 PM   #1856
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Health experts: "Universal wearing of face masks by Americans would have saved tens of thousands if not more than a hundred thousand lives."

Trump: "But what about the waiters?"
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Old 16th September 2020, 12:45 PM   #1857
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Originally Posted by Aridas View Post
Canada extends closing its border to Americans by 30 more days, and 90% of Canadians support the ban

I... find myself agreeing with their decision and attitude, unfortunately.
This just makes me wonder what’s wrong with 10% of Canadians.
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Old 16th September 2020, 01:08 PM   #1858
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Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop View Post
Health experts: "Universal wearing of face masks by Americans would have saved tens of thousands if not more than a hundred thousand lives."

Trump: "But what about the waiters?"
He is right, wait staff playing with their masks and touching food is bad...

But the solution of doing away with mask wearing mandates is beyond stupid.
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Old 16th September 2020, 01:44 PM   #1859
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Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
Is it April?
Was a year specified ?
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Old 16th September 2020, 01:48 PM   #1860
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Originally Posted by The Don View Post
Was a year specified ?
The same year his tax audits will be over and his health care plan will be released?
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Old 16th September 2020, 02:19 PM   #1861
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Thia was during an ABC News Town Hall segment.
Quote:
Pressed on his lack of mask wearing by an ABC News town hall questioner, President Donald Trump said he does wear one occasionally but then noted that others have doubted the efficacy of masks. In a follow-up, moderator George Stephanopoulos pushed Trump to name some of these people who he felt were worth citing for their distrust in masks...Without missing a beat, Trump responded, but he notably did not cite epidemiologists or academics: “Well, I’ll tell you who those people are: waiters.” Link to report on Mediaite
trump also criticized Joe Biden for suggesting a national mandate on wearing face masks. Seeming to imply Biden was president during the pandemic (?), trump said:
Quote:
“He didn’t do it, he never did it,” Trump said.
Towards the end of the segment was when trump referred to herd mentality. trump told Stephanopoulos that a vaccine would hasten an end to the Covid-19 outbreak, but it will "go away without the vaccine." trump then added,
Quote:
“And you’ll develop a herd mentality,” Trump said, clearly mistaking that term for ‘herd immunity.’ “It’s going to be herd development and that’s going to happen, that will all happen.”
Towards the end of the Town Hall program there was this nugget.
Quote:
“I understand that you don’t want to panic people,” the ABC News host said. “You said you want people to be calm. You’ve talked about Winston Churchill and FDR and they did reassure people. They were strong. They did keep people calm, but they also were straight. They said, this war is going to be tough, it’s going to be a real fight.”

Trump disagreed. “[Churchill] said, ‘You’re going to be safe, be calm, don’t panic.’ And you had bombers dropping bombs all over London,” he said. “So, I guess you could say that’s not so honest. but it’s still great leadership.”
During the Blitz Churchill told the English people, "You're going to be safe?" I haven't thrown this in for a while, but as a former boss of mine used to say: "You can't make this stuff up!"

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Old 16th September 2020, 02:22 PM   #1862
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CDC Director says the earliest a vaccine would be available to the general public is late 2021.
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Old 16th September 2020, 02:28 PM   #1863
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Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop View Post
CDC Director says the earliest a vaccine would be available to the general public is late 2021.
I was gonna say this admission will piss Trump off, but he's beyond it now, going for that herd mentality.

Still, he'll claim that a vaccine will be available to anyone who wants one in a matter of a few weeks, and this lie, as with all the others, will not matter a whit to about 40% of U.S. voters.
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Old 16th September 2020, 02:32 PM   #1864
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Just now he claimed it will be available in October.
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Old 16th September 2020, 02:39 PM   #1865
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Originally Posted by newyorkguy View Post
Thia was during an ABC News Town Hall segment.


trump also criticized Joe Biden for suggesting a national mandate on wearing face masks. Seeming to imply Biden was president during the pandemic (?), trump said:


Towards the end of the segment was when trump referred to herd mentality. trump told Stephanopoulos that a vaccine would hasten an end to the Covid-19 outbreak, but it will "go away without the vaccine." trump then added,


Towards the end of the Town Hall program there was this nugget.


During the Blitz Churchill told the English people, "You're going to be safe?" I haven't thrown this in for a while, but as a former boss of mine used to say: "You can't make this stuff up!"

Trump obviously has no trouble making up a complete load of ********

Now he's trying to rewrite British history?
Please don't mess this up America - we want him gone.
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Old 16th September 2020, 02:42 PM   #1866
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wrong thread

Last edited by Captain_Swoop; 16th September 2020 at 02:44 PM.
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Old 16th September 2020, 03:20 PM   #1867
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Originally Posted by newyorkguy View Post
During the Blitz Churchill told the English people, "You're going to be safe?" I haven't thrown this in for a while, but as a former boss of mine used to say: "You can't make this stuff up!"
It sounds like "you're going to be safe, be calm, don't panic" is the person-man-woman-camera-TV version of "Keep Calm and Carry On".

(You know how sentences can become distorted when translated to another language and back using computerized translators, particularly the older ones? That's what happens to everything going through Trump's brain. He sees a poster, t-shirt, or towel with "Keep Calm and Carry On", and what comes back out when he speaks is "Be Calm, Don't Panic".)

The obvious difference is that Churchill and the English, even with their stiff upper lip "we can take it" attitude during the Blitz, never
  • claimed the blitz was a hoax by his political rival
  • claimed it was just one plane coming in from Germany, or for that matter Ghina
  • claimed they would go away like a miracle in a few months
  • railed against gearing up for war, with everything this entailed of rationing, emergency measures, etc.
  • got several of his supporters killed by holding rallies with no anti-Blitz measures
  • made next to no effort to support or encourage measures like blackout curtains while his supporters threw hissy fits because blackouts were a communist infringement of their god-given rights
  • threw hissy fits himself because he saw the gearing up for war as a detriment to the national economy
  • covertly discuss just how terrifying bombs were even while publicly proclaiming bombers were no more dangerous than the flu ("they're airborne, you know, bombers fly through the air, this is deadly stuff")
  • fire key anti-Blitz personell prior to the war or sell anti-Blitz ordnance to Ghina
  • fail to act against the Blitz because cities that supported his political opponents would be hit the hardest, and thus the Blitz might help him win the election
  • proclaim he took no responsiblity
  • get several of his own supporters killed by musing to the press about how drinking bleach might offer some protection
  • claim he knew more about the Nazis than his own military
  • claim neither he, nor anyone else knew what the Blitz was

...and that's just some of the ones I could come up with off the top of my head.
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Old 16th September 2020, 03:34 PM   #1868
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Originally Posted by EHocking View Post
Merely an argument from incredulity.

In short, “I’ve never witnessed deaths due to influenza, therefore figures are exaggerated.”.
No, that's not it at all. The anecdotes were only a lead-in to the analysis, not presented as evidence.

Here's the hard data:-
Quote:
The 25,000 to 69,000 numbers that Trump cited do not represent counted flu deaths per year; they are estimates that the CDC produces by multiplying the number of flu death counts reported by various coefficients produced through complicated algorithms. These coefficients are based on assumptions of how many cases, hospitalizations, and deaths they believe went unreported. In the last six flu seasons, the CDC’s reported number of actual confirmed flu deaths—that is, counting flu deaths the way we are currently counting deaths from the coronavirus—has ranged from 3,448 to 15,620, which far lower than the numbers commonly repeated by public officials and even public health experts.
In short, when comparing apples with apples (ie. confirmed deaths) Covid-19 is much more deadly than the flu.

Covid deniers spent a lot of effort trying to reduce the apparent number of confirmed deaths by such tactics as asserting that people who were hit by a bus were included. Fine, we will give them that. But then they turn around and compare those figures to estimates created by multiplying confirmed flu deaths by some factor. That is wrong.

And this pandemic isn't even over yet. Unlike the flu, some victims of Covid-19 linger on for months before finally succumbing, or may later die of 'unrelated' illnesses that otherwise would not have killed them. It may be years before the true impact is seen, but even now excess death figures are showing that Covid-19 is much more deadly than the flu.
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Last edited by Roger Ramjets; 16th September 2020 at 03:36 PM.
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Old 16th September 2020, 03:40 PM   #1869
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Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop View Post
CDC Director says the earliest a vaccine would be available to the general public is late 2021.
He doesn't know what he's talking about!
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Old 16th September 2020, 04:15 PM   #1870
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He's so giddy to get the "vaccine is here to save us all, thanks to me me me me me' story going, he's going to blow it.

The timing matters. Less than a week to election, late October, which has been repeatedly telegraphed. That means enthusiasm is high and the truth will take time to catch up.

If he starts going full-throated now, the elation will have worn off and the fact it isn’t really available will be quite apparent by election day.

He can't even be nefarious right.
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Old 16th September 2020, 04:41 PM   #1871
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Originally Posted by Bob001 View Post
He's a doctor. He says neither he nor colleagues he contacted have seen flu deaths, whereas they routinely see deaths from other causes for which a lower total count is reported.
Again, "I don't see it, therefore it doesn't exist", backed up by an informal review of the opinions of his mates. I recall a nurse (appeal to authority) also categorically claimed that ER numbers, suicides, murders rose during a full moon - in her and her colleagues opinion.
Quote:
He also explains that the standard "flu death" number is the result of a statistical calculation, which he contends may be wrong.
No - he claims it is comparing apples to oranges, not "may be wrong"
Quote:
Did you read the link?
Yes I did.
That is how I formed my opinion regarding this doctor's opinion.
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Old 16th September 2020, 04:56 PM   #1872
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Trump says,
"if you take the blue states out, we're at a level I don't think anybody in the world would be at."
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Old 16th September 2020, 05:02 PM   #1873
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Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop View Post
Trump says,
"if you take the blue states out, we're at a level I don't think anybody in the world would be at."
"If you take the deaths out, we're at a level I don't think anybody in the world would be at."
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Old 16th September 2020, 05:13 PM   #1874
Resume
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Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop View Post
Trump says,
"if you take the blue states out, we're at a level I don't think anybody in the world would be at."
What about Texas, Florida, Georgia and Arizona **** face?
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Old 16th September 2020, 05:18 PM   #1875
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Originally Posted by Resume View Post
What about Texas, Florida, Georgia and Arizona **** face?
He's trying his best to turn them blue too.
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Old 16th September 2020, 05:23 PM   #1876
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Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop View Post
Trump says,
"if you take the blue states out, we're at a level I don't think anybody in the world would be at."
Much truer in April than Sept. Red states have been playing catchup.
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Old 16th September 2020, 08:52 PM   #1877
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Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop View Post
Just now he claimed it will be available in October.


Biden should offer the Trumpkins a bet: Any of them who actually gets a vaccine by the end of October, go ahead and vote for Trump, and we won't even complain. But, if, come Halloween, they still haven't gotten one, they have to vote Biden.
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Old 16th September 2020, 09:49 PM   #1878
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Originally Posted by Horatius View Post
Biden should offer the Trumpkins a bet: Any of them who actually gets a vaccine by the end of October, go ahead and vote for Trump, and we won't even complain. But, if, come Halloween, they still haven't gotten one, they have to vote Biden.
Call me a cynic, but I fully expect there to be a distribution of a fake vaccine pretty soon. As long as enough people don't realize it doesn't work before the voting...
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Old 16th September 2020, 10:26 PM   #1879
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Originally Posted by TragicMonkey View Post
Call me a cynic, but I fully expect there to be a distribution of a fake vaccine pretty soon. As long as enough people don't realize it doesn't work before the voting...
Where would it come from? Who would produce and distribute it? What incentive would medical professionals have to deliver it? Seems like it would require a pretty vast conspiracy to have a fake vaccine. I can imagine some corners being cut to produce a vaccine that is not fully tested for safety and effectiveness, but considering the complex liability issues in the medical world, I'm not even sure that could go very far.
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Old 16th September 2020, 10:28 PM   #1880
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Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop View Post
Trump says,
"if you take the blue states out, we're at a level I don't think anybody in the world would be at."
He literally thinks he is only President of the states that voted for him.
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