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Tags 2020 elections , joe biden , presidential candidates

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Old 29th May 2020, 03:28 PM   #201
Stacyhs
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
As you can see, I've been talking about other stuff.

I threw that one in there so you'd have something to talk about.

If you'd prefer to talk about the other stuff, feel free to skip right over it. Like I said the other day, I'm not really interested in dinging Biden on gaffes and whatnot.

Wanna talk about veep choices and implications instead? It'll be tricky, dodging the Babylon Bee articles about Abrams, but I think it's do-able.


Actually, forget all that.
Good idea. It really wasn't worth responding to as the highlighted sentences reveal its true intention.
Quote:
We have a huge long thread about how laypeople and professionals alike can totally diagnose mental health from footage of public appearances. So I'm not going to argue with you about it.
Nah. I've pretty much bowed out of that merry-go-round quite some time ago. Nothing much new said for a long time.

Quote:
Quite frankly, an argument between us doesn't really matter. What matters is how voters perceive Biden. If Dem turnout in swing states is depressed because of how Biden talks and acts in his video clips, that's a problem even if he's not even remotely senile.
I think most people are far more worried about how Trump talks, acts, and tweets than Biden.

Quote:
Don't worry about me saying it. Worry about CNN saying it. Worry about Rachel Maddow* saying it.*I kid. Maddow would never say it, especially if she thought it was true. Plus, even if she did, I don't think she has the ratings to make it worrisome.
It doesn't worry me one bit. CNN and Maddow recognize it for what it is: crap.

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Old 29th May 2020, 03:39 PM   #202
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For the assertion that Maddow would not cover the story if she thought it was true is nonsense.
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Old 29th May 2020, 03:51 PM   #203
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Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
I think most people are far more worried about how Trump talks, acts, and tweets than Biden.
Well, yeah: Blue states are more populous than red states, after all.

Since we're discussing the question of Biden for president, do you have reasons for thinking more voters in swing states are worried about that? Worried enough to make a difference in the election?
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Old 29th May 2020, 04:54 PM   #204
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
Well, yeah: Blue states are more populous than red states, after all.

Since we're discussing the question of Biden for president, do you have reasons for thinking more voters in swing states are worried about that? Worried enough to make a difference in the election?
Yes, I do:

There was a long history of vilifying HRC by the GOP that was quite successful with other voters than fellow GOP. A lot of people who wouldn't vote for her would vote for Biden.
Quote:
President Donald Trump is losing a critical constituency: voters who see two choices on the ballot — and hate them both.

Unlike in 2016, when a large group of voters who disliked both Trump and Hillary Clinton broke sharply for Trump, the opposite is happening now, according to public polling and private surveys conducted by Republicans and Democrats alike.

It's a significant and often underappreciated group of voters. Of the nearly 20 percent of voters who disliked both Clinton and Trump in 2016, Trump outperformed Clinton by about 17 percentage points, according to exit polls.

Four years later, that same group — including a mix of Bernie Sanders supporters, other Democrats, disaffected Republicans and independents — strongly prefers Biden, the polling shows. The former vice president leads Trump by more than 40 percentage points among that group, which accounts for nearly a quarter of registered voters, according to a Monmouth University poll last week.
Traditionally Red Arizona:
Quote:
Biden leads Trump by 4 points in the RealClearPolitics average. He’s led by between 1 point and 9 points in every survey conducted since March. The most recent OH Predictive Insights (OHPI) poll found Biden ahead by 7 points.

Florida:
Biden has a narrow edge in the RealClearPolitics average, leading by 3.3 points, but recent surveys show the race is within the margin of error, and the underlying data points toward a contest that could go either way.

Michigan
But Trump carried the Wolverine State by only about 10,000 votes, and he faces a difficult challenge there in 2020, as four polls released this month find him trailing by between 3 points and 9 points.

The Hodas & Associates poll that found Biden ahead by 9 points put Trump’s favorability rating deep underwater, at 39 percent positive and 56 percent negative.

N. Carolina

Trump is performing better in the Tar Heel State than in any of the other five battlegrounds, but he still leads Biden by only 1 point in the RealClearPolitics average. Trump won North Carolina by 3.5 points in 2016.

Pennsylvania
The Keystone State went narrowly for Trump in 2016 after going for the Democratic presidential candidate in every prior race dating back to 1988.

Biden, who was born in Scranton and feels a kinship to the blue-collar workers there, has a wider lead in Pennsylvania than in any other battleground. He leads by 6.5 points in the RealClearPolitics average.

A recent Fox News poll that found Biden leading by 8 points underscores Trump’s challenge.

Wisconsin

Democrats view Wisconsin, with its predominantly white electorate, as the least likely of the “blue wall” states to return to their column in 2020.

But polling shows Biden holding a small but consistent lead in the state. He leads Trump by 2.7 points in the RealClearPolitics average.
https://thehill.com/homenews/campaig...y-swing-states
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Old 29th May 2020, 05:12 PM   #205
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Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
Yes, I do:

There was a long history of vilifying HRC by the GOP that was quite successful with other voters than fellow GOP. A lot of people who wouldn't vote for her would vote for Biden.


Traditionally Red Arizona:

https://thehill.com/homenews/campaig...y-swing-states
Granted Biden is polling better right now than Clinton was this time last time. To be clear: You are attributing this to Fox and Limbaugh not having trashed him very much to their audiences yet. Is that correct?
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Old 29th May 2020, 05:17 PM   #206
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
Granted Biden is polling better right now than Clinton was this time last time. To be clear: You are attributing this to Fox and Limbaugh not having trashed him very much to their audiences yet. Is that correct?
No.
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Old 29th May 2020, 05:37 PM   #207
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
Granted Biden is polling better right now than Clinton was this time last time. To be clear: You are attributing this to Fox and Limbaugh not having trashed him very much to their audiences yet. Is that correct?
Not just fox and rush lymphnode.. but the Republican party had been trashing Hillary for a decade prior to the 2016 election. That allows their rhetoric to become deeply ingrained in the psyche of the electorate.

By comparison Biden got very little attention back then. (And very little prior to the current primaries.) Yes he was vp, but he wasn't front and center over things like Benghazi. Yes, Trump's bootlickers will trash Biden from now until November, but I suspect it won't have the same effect as the long-term attacks on Clinton. The dislike won't run as deep.

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Old 29th May 2020, 05:44 PM   #208
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Originally Posted by Segnosaur View Post
Not just fox and rush lymphnode.. but the Republican party had been trashing Hillary for a decade prior to the 2016 election. That allows their rhetoric to become deeply ingrained in the psyche of the electorate.

By comparison Biden got very little attention back then. (And very little prior to the current primaries.) Yes he was vp, but he wasn't front and center over things like Benghazi. Yes, Trump's bootlickers will trash Biden from now until November, but I suspect it won't have the same effect as the long-term attacks on Clinton. The dislike won't run as deep.

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Agreed. What the Trump campaign is planning on and what FOX, Limbaugh, Hannity and the rest of their ilk plan on doing is no different than what they've always done. But dislike for Hillary ran very deep because it stretched back for decades starting when she was First Lady of Arkansas.

On the other hand, there is SO much ammunition against Trump the Dems can and will use against him.... and he just keeps on handing them bullets every day.
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Old 29th May 2020, 06:01 PM   #209
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Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
Agreed. What the Trump campaign is planning on and what FOX, Limbaugh, Hannity and the rest of their ilk plan on doing is no different than what they've always done. But dislike for Hillary ran very deep because it stretched back for decades starting when she was First Lady of Arkansas.

On the other hand, there is SO much ammunition against Trump the Dems can and will use against him.... and he just keeps on handing them bullets every day.
That might not work. People don't care anymore about truth. Dems talking about Trump Trump Trump may actually help Trump. Biden has minisculle media presence. Trump is making sure of that.
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Old 29th May 2020, 06:35 PM   #210
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Originally Posted by Dr.Sid View Post
That might not work. People don't care anymore about truth. Dems talking about Trump Trump Trump may actually help Trump. Biden has minisculle media presence. Trump is making sure of that.
What else can the Dems do except fight fire with fire? Sit back passively while Trump puts out attack ads on Biden? Negative ads work. That's why they use them.
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Old 29th May 2020, 11:12 PM   #211
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Originally Posted by wareyin View Post
I tried to bring up what I interpret as Klobuchar losing her shot at being Biden's VP, but nobody wanted to respond to that. I feel your pain.
I did but the link was broke. That or Yahoo took the story down. I did find other links but by that time I was sleepy.

I am glad, I don't want to see him pick someone that makes him look even more untenable to Progressives than he already does.
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Old 29th May 2020, 11:15 PM   #212
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Originally Posted by Craig4 View Post
https://www.cnn.com/2020/05/28/polit..._blogfooterold

It's nice to see there are some Republicans who still love their country. A group Republicans got together and is running TV and digital ads to get conservatives to vote for Biden and return to American values.
Yay, a return to sanity!
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Old 29th May 2020, 11:20 PM   #213
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Originally Posted by TragicMonkey View Post
I think the sort of person who would object to any of the VP choices is already holding their nose to vote for Biden. If they're overcoming their dislike of Biden himself already, then why would the VP matter? It's not going to be a tipping point for people who already loathe Biden and are voting for him anyway.
I'm one of those people, I'll vote for Biden regardless of his VP pick. I'd still like to see a better symbolic pick than someone who just seems like a pick for the usual reasons, which constituents will the VP bring along. Biden doesn't need to do that. But IMO, he should consider a pick that would ease the minds of some of the Warren/Sanders camps.
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Privatize the profits and socialize the losses. It's the American way. That's how Mnuchin got rich. Worse, he did it on the backs of elderly people who had been conned into reverse mortgages. Mnuchin paid zero, took on the debt then taxpayers bailed him out.

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Old 29th May 2020, 11:24 PM   #214
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Originally Posted by Bob001 View Post
The VP choice always matters. McCain hurt himself badly by picking Sarah Palin. Newcomer Obama strengthened his ticket by picking one of the most respected and experienced (and white male) senators. I think Hillary hurt herself by picking competent and inoffensive Tim Kaine rather than somebody who could function as an attack dog against Trump. I don't think too many potential Biden voters will turn to Trump, but they might just stay home if they don't like his VP.
This ^
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Old 30th May 2020, 12:25 AM   #215
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I do hope Biden picks Warren, because it would be such a strong signal that the Dems are fielding their A-team.
Warren can cover Biden on policy expertise and against the accusations of working for Wall Street.
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Old 30th May 2020, 02:45 AM   #216
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So Klobuchar's star is falling in the VP consideration, right?

If these riots and anti-police sentiments continue, I can't see how having a DA that never prosecuted a single cop during her career (including our murderer of George Floyd on a previous shooting) is a good choice for the party.

May this be the death knell of "tough on crime" Democrats.
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Old 30th May 2020, 03:14 AM   #217
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Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
No.
Then we're talking past each other.
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Old 30th May 2020, 03:18 AM   #218
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
I did but the link was broke. That or Yahoo took the story down. I did find other links but by that time I was sleepy.

I am glad, I don't want to see him pick someone that makes him look even more untenable to Progressives than he already does.
Unless "untenable to progressives" means depressing progressive turnout in swing states, I don't see the problem.

Which VP choice do you think would boost progressive turnout in swing states?
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Old 30th May 2020, 05:34 AM   #219
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Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey View Post
So Klobuchar's star is falling in the VP consideration, right?

If these riots and anti-police sentiments continue, I can't see how having a DA that never prosecuted a single cop during her career (including our murderer of George Floyd on a previous shooting) is a good choice for the party.

May this be the death knell of "tough on crime" Democrats.
Not just falling, but in the words of Biden's people "we need to avoid her."
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Old 30th May 2020, 06:22 AM   #220
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Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
What else can the Dems do except fight fire with fire? Sit back passively while Trump puts out attack ads on Biden? Negative ads work. That's why they use them.
Dems should talk about Biden. Biden must be in the media. Preferably in good light. For every news article about Trump, there must be one about Biden. It would also help if Biden was not portrayed anti-Trump in every aspect. Trump does, by a pure chance or as an accident, do something right time to time. Just acknowledge that.
Biden needs to increase media presence 10 times.
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Old 30th May 2020, 06:31 AM   #221
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Originally Posted by The Great Zaganza View Post
I do hope Biden picks Warren, because it would be such a strong signal that the Dems are fielding their A-team.
Warren can cover Biden on policy expertise and against the accusations of working for Wall Street.
What I worry about with Warren is age. With Biden's age, a younger VP seems appropriate. Warren would be a good choice for Treasury if the Dems also take back the Senate.
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Old 30th May 2020, 06:45 AM   #222
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Originally Posted by wareyin View Post
Not just falling, but in the words of Biden's people "we need to avoid her."
After this week, it has to be Stacey Abrams. Muriel Bowser might have been a good choice but she's got baggage from a search without warrant policy she tried to push through.

Abrams is a lawyer but has never been a prosecutor so she's a great candidate to take on some sort of police reform effort.
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Old 30th May 2020, 09:20 AM   #223
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A 538 VP chat made a good argument for Tammy Duckworth.


Rather than fuss over VP, I think what Biden needs to do right now is just step up and start Presidenting. The lardass in the chair is more concerned with his Twitter than people rioting in the street or dying of a bug, so someone's gotta do it. Imagine you're President Biden. What do you do? Do you hold a press conference to argue for civil order? Press Congress for legislation? Whatever it is, go and do that. Who's going to stop you? Just go do it.

He was nominated to be Responsible Grandpa, he ought to go be Mr. Responsible Grandpa President and show the public how it's done.

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Old 30th May 2020, 10:10 AM   #224
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Originally Posted by The Great Zaganza View Post
I do hope Biden picks Warren, because it would be such a strong signal that the Dems are fielding their A-team.
Warren can cover Biden on policy expertise and against the accusations of working for Wall Street.
The problem there is that the Repub governor of Massachusetts would appoint her successor. Can the Democrats afford to lose a Senate seat?

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Old 30th May 2020, 10:11 AM   #225
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Originally Posted by wareyin View Post
Not just falling, but in the words of Biden's people "we need to avoid her."
I would still vote for Biden but there's no way I want to see her on the ticket.
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Old 30th May 2020, 10:21 AM   #226
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Originally Posted by Beelzebuddy View Post
A 538 VP chat made a good argument for Tammy Duckworth.
.....
Whether it's valid or not, the Repubs would be all over the "natural born citizen" provision because she was born in Thailand. I'm sure she's a great person, but it would be a mistake to hand Trump an issue like that.
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Old 30th May 2020, 10:30 AM   #227
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Originally Posted by Bob001 View Post
The problem there is that the Repub governor of Massachusetts would appoint her successor. Can the Democrats afford to lose a Senate seat?
The Senate is pie-in-the-sky until 2022. Only a massive Blue Wave will flip it in November.
So let's focus on getting the White House, because if you don't get that, you won't get the Senate, either, and the takeover of the Judiciary will continue.
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Old 30th May 2020, 10:42 AM   #228
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Originally Posted by The Great Zaganza View Post
The Senate is pie-in-the-sky until 2022. Only a massive Blue Wave will flip it in November.
.....
Some think it could happen.
https://www.cnn.com/2019/10/22/polit...020/index.html
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/polit...rs/ar-BB11V3DX

Losing Warren would make it harder.
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Old 30th May 2020, 11:04 AM   #229
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Originally Posted by Beelzebuddy View Post
A 538 VP chat made a good argument for Tammy Duckworth.
.....
A profile of Duckworth:
https://www.vogue.com/article/tammy-...ber-2018-issue
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Old 30th May 2020, 11:23 AM   #230
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Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey View Post
So Klobuchar's star is falling in the VP consideration, right?

If these riots and anti-police sentiments continue, I can't see how having a DA that never prosecuted a single cop during her career (including our murderer of George Floyd on a previous shooting) is a good choice for the party.

May this be the death knell of "tough on crime" Democrats.
Klobuchar did not decline to prosecute Chauvin.
Quote:
The shooting occurred during Klobuchar’s tenure as Hennepin County attorney, but the case didn’t go before a grand jury until after she left office and later became a Minnesota senator, the Star Tribune reports. In 2008, a grand jury ultimately decided not to charge the officers with any wrongdoing in the shooting, the Guardian reports.

Those decisions were left to a grand jury, a common practice at the time, according to the newspaper.

In a statement released Friday, the Hennepin County Attorney’s Office said Klobuchar had “no involvement” in the decision not to charge Chauvin in the shooting.
“Sen. Klobuchar’s last day in the office here was December 31 2006, and she had no involvement in the prosecution of this case at all,” the statement obtained by the New York Times read.
https://nypost.com/2020/05/29/amy-kl...prosecute-cop/
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Old 30th May 2020, 11:28 AM   #231
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Originally Posted by Dr.Sid View Post
Dems should talk about Biden. Biden must be in the media. Preferably in good light. For every news article about Trump, there must be one about Biden. It would also help if Biden was not portrayed anti-Trump in every aspect. Trump does, by a pure chance or as an accident, do something right time to time. Just acknowledge that.
Biden needs to increase media presence 10 times.
I can agree that Biden needs to put out positive ads in addition to attack ads. He needs to tell us what he plans to do, what his agenda is in those ads.
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Old 30th May 2020, 11:39 AM   #232
The Great Zaganza
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Biden needs to not talk Trump at all - only be the Statesman Trump could never hope to be.
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Old 30th May 2020, 11:52 AM   #233
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One of the mistakes of 2016 was acting like Trump wasn't a clownish boor and assuming the typical voter would read between the lines. The major media outlets still have trouble calling a lie what it is instead of wrapping it in euphemism to protect the dignity of the office.

By all means Biden should take the high road, but there still needs to be a PAC or something putting out ads reminding people that even Trump's own staff call him a ******* moron.
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Old 30th May 2020, 12:24 PM   #234
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Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
Klobuchar did not decline to prosecute Chauvin.



https://nypost.com/2020/05/29/amy-kl...prosecute-cop/
Ah yes, "the grand jury made me do it" defense.

I'm sure that will appease people of color, especially since such insightful reasoning has never been offered before.
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Old 30th May 2020, 12:29 PM   #235
Stacyhs
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Originally Posted by Beelzebuddy View Post
One of the mistakes of 2016 was acting like Trump wasn't a clownish boor and assuming the typical voter would read between the lines. The major media outlets still have trouble calling a lie what it is instead of wrapping it in euphemism to protect the dignity of the office.

By all means Biden should take the high road, but there still needs to be a PAC or something putting out ads reminding people that even Trump's own staff call him a ******* moron.
Agreed. Let the PAC ads do the necessary dirty work. Biden needs to project professionalism and positivity.
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Old 30th May 2020, 12:30 PM   #236
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Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
Klobuchar did not decline to prosecute Chauvin.

https://nypost.com/2020/05/29/amy-kl...prosecute-cop/

That's not all she might have to answer for.
Quote:
As chief prosecutor for Minnesota’s most populous county from 1999 to 2007, Klobuchar declined to bring charges in more than two dozen cases in which people were killed in encounters with police.

At the same time, she aggressively prosecuted smaller offenses such as vandalism and routinely sought longer-than-recommended sentences, including for minors. Such prosecutions, done with the aim of curbing more serious crimes, have had mixed results and have been criticized for their disproportionate effect on poor and minority communities.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/polit...5e6_story.html

You find a few people whose lives were ruined because she sent them to prison for teenage pranks, and that's all voters will think about.

Last edited by Bob001; 30th May 2020 at 12:33 PM.
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Old 30th May 2020, 12:56 PM   #237
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Originally Posted by Delphic Oracle View Post
Ah yes, "the grand jury made me do it" defense.

I'm sure that will appease people of color, especially since such insightful reasoning has never been offered before.
You conveniently and blatantly ignore that she no longer held the office at the time. That's an impressive degree of eagerness to assign blame.

This is like a game of community rorshalk, where posters blurt whatever impressionistic concept enters their minds, facts be damned.
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Old 30th May 2020, 01:13 PM   #238
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Originally Posted by Delphic Oracle View Post
Ah yes, "the grand jury made me do it" defense.
According to the article, the case was referred to a grand jury, which did not return an indictment. Further, the grand jury did not arrive at its decision until after Klobuchar had left the prosecutor's office.

Given that referring such cases to a grand jury was the due process in that jurisdiction at the time, I don't see how she can be held responsible for that outcome.

Did Klobuchar have a history of skipping the grand jury and bringing charges directly, but opted not to do so in this case?

Quote:
I'm sure that will appease people of color, especially since such insightful reasoning has never been offered before.
If I read the story correctly, I'm not sure "people of color" are owed any appeasement over this particular case.
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Old 30th May 2020, 01:15 PM   #239
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well, I guess that depends on what she told the grand jury ...
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Old 30th May 2020, 01:19 PM   #240
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Originally Posted by The Great Zaganza View Post
well, I guess that depends on what she told the grand jury ...
She. Was. No. Longer. In. The. Office. At. That. Time.
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