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Old 4th January 2011, 05:34 AM   #81
Scott Sommers
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Originally Posted by Sam.I.Am View Post
The only reason that is true is because the left owns the White House and half of Congress. I don't think that it's so much growth by the right as it is the left retreating (albeit quietly so as to not embarrass themselves anymore that they already have) from 9/11 truth. That makes the loons on the right stand out more than they did when the left wing Bush hate machine was turned up to 11.
Sure. If Sarah was in the White House, things might have been different. But she's not. Instead, it's a black American who's talking about public health care.

Originally Posted by Sam.I.Am View Post
The right wingers/"Libertarians" were always there and probably started it but they were soon overtaken by the left. There's a reason that 9/11 truth started to die off in 2007 and pretty much disappeared in 2009 and it isn't because any of the facts on the issue had changed dramatically, because they didn't.
I addressed this in part of my earlier posts. The average age of a member of We Are Change is 27. Many are still in high school and college. While it is correct to say, as many JREF members do, that "9/11 truth started to die off in 2007." One of my main points is that the idea of a government-run plot to explode the WTC buildings with thermite -- or however they did it -- is now part of a much larger understanding of the USA among people who have nothing to do with the 911 Truth-sorts-of-things that the JREF monitors. By my estimate, there would be tens of thousands in the USA (this is far less than 1% of the population) alone who are part of this weird world.

So sure, you are absolutely correct that 911-conspiracy-type-ideas have survived on the Right in some sort of messed up natural selection. But you are wrong that the idea is disappearing. It has metamorphosized into a belief system that's not entirely recognizable to someone looking for the old hippies ranting about peak oil and that draft dodger Cheney. You gotta look in different places for these people. Now they're hanging out under moldy rocks with the slugs and the parasites. There's still lots of them, but now they look like slime molds and tapeworms.
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I've seen it here and in several other places that there is no Illuminati. That doesn't even make sense. There's a Wikipedia entry that talks about it. I'm not saying that everything on Wikipedia is true, but if you read it, it's just really clear how the Illuminati controls the world.

Last edited by Scott Sommers; 4th January 2011 at 05:37 AM.
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Old 4th January 2011, 06:09 AM   #82
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There has always been a very small portion of American society that want to embrace anything that allows them to think that the government is out to get them, nothing new there. There's no reason to think that 9/11 truth would be excluded from this line of thought. What I was saying is that they were always there but the signal (irrational left wing Bush hatred) to noise (right wing big government hatred) ratio has changed in the past 4 or so years allowing the right wingers to appear to be growing in numbers while in reality they are just better heard due to less interference from the left and their membership numbers are fairly static.

As some people grow out of it new ones fill in the void. If this weren't true then the average age should be much higher. No?
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Old 4th January 2011, 06:09 AM   #83
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While everyone agrees on Newton's Laws,
Not round here they don't. This is Net Force = Zero territory, remember.

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Old 4th January 2011, 09:28 AM   #84
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Originally Posted by Sam.I.Am View Post
There has always been a very small portion of American society that want to embrace anything that allows them to think that the government is out to get them, nothing new there. There's no reason to think that 9/11 truth would be excluded from this line of thought. What I was saying is that they were always there but the signal (irrational left wing Bush hatred) to noise (right wing big government hatred) ratio has changed in the past 4 or so years allowing the right wingers to appear to be growing in numbers while in reality they are just better heard due to less interference from the left and their membership numbers are fairly static.

As some people grow out of it new ones fill in the void. If this weren't true then the average age should be much higher. No?
I don't think I've said anything so far that would address the issue of how old or young 911-conspiracy-type-folk should be. I have very clear understanding of this, but there's nothing here so far, I think, that would have anything to do with that. In my opinion, the average age would be low and not high. 911 occurred in 2001. I believe that some large portion of those involved in this 911-conspiracy-type-stuff are young people who became involved sometime after the attacks. They have not had enough time to get old. Many appear to be fairly recent in their acceptance of messed up Truther thinking and probably became involved during the last few years.

I calculated ages based on several different kinds of samples of 911-conspiracy-type-folk. While some would be older people who have been involved in messed up thinking even before 2001, my samples did not find a lot of these. My calculation is a mean average. The range on the lower side of the curve is pretty much only 10 years (17-27), where as the higher side of the mean, the range is 27 to 44. As a result, my samples are highly skewed to the left. 62% of my sample is under 27.3 years of age and only 8% are over 40. The modal age for this sample was 22. I was also able to calculate the average for participants in the 2009 We Are Change-sponsored 911 memorial demonstration in NYC. This calculation produced numbers almost identical to the numbers above.

To put it another way, most of the people I could find were in high school on September 11, 2001. They are relatively recent converts to this kind of messed up thought. Like Brooke Kelley, whom I described above (who is NOT counted in any of my samples), most appear to be young kids looking for a cause. I suppose in the 60s, they might have joined SDS or something like that.

I did find some evidence that people who get responsible jobs drop out of these groups, but for reasons that will be more obvious if you read my article, that's not a real possibility for most of these folks.
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I've seen it here and in several other places that there is no Illuminati. That doesn't even make sense. There's a Wikipedia entry that talks about it. I'm not saying that everything on Wikipedia is true, but if you read it, it's just really clear how the Illuminati controls the world.

Last edited by Scott Sommers; 4th January 2011 at 09:38 AM.
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Old 4th January 2011, 10:42 AM   #85
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As I've said before, it's a generational thing. Truthers over 40 skew left while those under 30 skew right. Because the media tend to associate age with responsibility, the more visible face of Trooferism is Leftist: Webster Tarpley, David Ray Griffin, Kevin Barrett, Jim Fetzer, etc. On the Right, only Alex Jones has the credibility with the media (as compared to real credibility) to get much visibility.

But more important, both sides skew wacko. You won't find a lot of support for Alex Jones among mainstream conservatives; his brand of libertarianism/survivalism is a fringe element. Ditto with Mike Malloy and his loopy brand of leftism.
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Old 20th January 2011, 11:40 PM   #86
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Originally Posted by uke2se View Post
Isn't Alex Jones a right wing-nut?
He talks a lot about the government coming to take his guns away... so...
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Old 17th August 2011, 03:39 PM   #87
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Why do you keep calling it a cult??
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Old 17th August 2011, 03:46 PM   #88
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Originally Posted by Titanic Explorer View Post

What do you all think- as of 2010, do the far left or far right Truthers hold the reigns of power and influence within their cult?
Which side will be the first to implode?
I don't they have the mental ability to be making political choices any more rationally than they make their twoofer choice. They likely simple latch onto the first one that catches their attention. And ultimately if you go far enough left you end up on the right.

And I don't think they will implode...simply move on to other CTs........
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Old 18th August 2011, 08:38 AM   #89
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Clowns to the left of me, jokers to the right...

Or has someone made that joke already?
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Old 18th August 2011, 09:33 AM   #90
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Originally Posted by Thunder View Post
Alex Jones most definitely IS right-wing. Anti-immigrant, anti-taxes, anti-big government, anti-Communist, anti-Socialist, anti-AGW.

You, again, are wrong. Very very wrong.
He also got his start promoting the "Clinton Death List" and the usual John Birch militia black helicopter stuff.
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Old 18th August 2011, 09:54 AM   #91
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i am not sure if AJ has a political side, he seems more like a flag in the wind, changing to wherever the market to sell his garbage is bigger.
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Old 18th August 2011, 10:20 AM   #92
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Originally Posted by missandybrown View Post
Why do you keep calling it a cult??
Because it bears all the hallmarks of being a cult.
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Old 18th August 2011, 10:46 AM   #93
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Originally Posted by DC View Post
i am not sure if AJ has a political side, he seems more like a flag in the wind, changing to wherever the market to sell his garbage is bigger.
You obviously haven't been keeping up on this one. I don't know if it's here or in another thread, but we have answered this already. AJ is clear about which party he supports.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alex_Jones_(radio_host)
Quote:
In early 2000, Jones was one of seven Republican candidates for state representative in Texas House District 48, an open seat swing district based in Austin, Texas. Jones stated that he was running, "to be a watchdog on the inside.
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I've seen it here and in several other places that there is no Illuminati. That doesn't even make sense. There's a Wikipedia entry that talks about it. I'm not saying that everything on Wikipedia is true, but if you read it, it's just really clear how the Illuminati controls the world.
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Old 18th August 2011, 11:52 AM   #94
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I figured Jones for a Ron Paul supporter.
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Old 17th July 2018, 04:06 PM   #95
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In the last election almost every truth movement leader(Alex Jones, Jesse Venturea, Michel Chossudovsky) who supported a candidate endorsed Doanld Trump. And most truther(and truther leaning) websites supported him as well.
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Old 18th July 2018, 05:11 AM   #96
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Originally Posted by MrFliop View Post
In the last election almost every truth movement leader(Alex Jones, Jesse Venturea, Michel Chossudovsky) who supported a candidate endorsed Doanld Trump. And most truther(and truther leaning) websites supported him as well.
I don't hate to say this,....I have been saying since 2010 that politically, Truthers are right-wing Republicans. The hard-core producers of Truther ideology may think that Trump is just as likely to be a servant of the super-secret global government, but the distributors (such as AJ) and consumers of Truther crap are dominated by Republicans.

None of this should be surprising. The Republican Party is build on conspiracy theory. After all, it's not just the current president who thinks that Obama's an African refugee.

They're worse than Truthers. I have spoken to organizers of the pro-Trump group the Proud Boys and women in their support groups who still insist that Pizzagate is real. I have seen Proud Boys facebook profiles that have gang stalking groups listed as likes. If you ask hem directly about their interest in conspiracy theory, they just deny it, but they have all the signs of hard-core conspiracy theory. Asl see this link.

An aide to a Republican - REPUBLICAN - Florida state representative was fired after he began spreading the idea that shooting victims at Parkland were crises actors.

There are all sorts of Republicans. John McCain is a Republican. I doubt there're any Truthers on his staff. But there's a kind of young Republican orbiting around the administration of Donald Trump that sees in the Republicans a place where their nut bar ideas are real political opinions.

And don't forget, Michelle Bachmann says that vaccination is dangerous.
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I've seen it here and in several other places that there is no Illuminati. That doesn't even make sense. There's a Wikipedia entry that talks about it. I'm not saying that everything on Wikipedia is true, but if you read it, it's just really clear how the Illuminati controls the world.
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Old 18th July 2018, 07:25 AM   #97
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I think hardcore conspiracy theorists generally come pretty evenly from the far sides of both conservative and liberal thinking. These days we have a president who peddles in conspiracy theories as flippantly and carelessly as Alex Jones, which I think has (unfortunately) amplified the right wing conspiracy theorists in the national conversation, but there are plenty of leftwing truthers, conspiracy theorists and other woo-peddlers out there. Just browse the 911truth or conspiracy subreddits for a few days and you will see the two sides butt heads pretty often. At the end of the day, those who believe fervently in conspiracy theories have a monological fixation on distrust for "mainstream" institutions and authority, and that fixation is not ideologically dependent and can resonate with both leftist and rightwing world views.
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Old 18th July 2018, 01:52 PM   #98
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Originally Posted by benthamitemetric View Post
I think hardcore conspiracy theorists generally come pretty evenly from the far sides of both conservative and liberal thinking
I agree; with more left leaning ones it's that 'they' are trying to take our 'rights', and with the right leaning ones it tends to be more that 'they' are trying to take our 'freedoms' (or turn frogs gay ) and each side thinks the 'they' is the other side. I've been reading loads of political discussions lately and you'll constantly hear how 'the right' or 'the left' are slowly eroding this or that right or freedom. What unites the two sides is that neither can accept the idea that there might (that's might) not be a shadowy, ill defined 'they' who are perpetually trying to **** them over. I blame Hollywood films (and I actually mean that); think of any big movie you like and 100% of the time it includes a vague threat to everyone's safety that is apparently defeated before being implied that it may not have been defeated so we all have to stay vigilant in case the threat returns. It's a constantly repeated message that affects everyone, regardless of political leanings.
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Old 19th July 2018, 01:45 AM   #99
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It appears that the common meme among truthers is their complete distrust of the mainstream media, the status quo, the system and so forth. They are anti establishment whether coming at from the right or left. Most believe that there is an unseen cabal with uber power pulling the strings and putting out false narratives constantly.. hence why they call themselves "truthers"... believing they are about the "real" truth, not the "fake news". Trump is all about calling what he doesn't like or agree with, fake news. Truthers love this because it is exactly what they have been going on about for years. We were lied to... told a false narrative... but they know what actually happened of course. Their MO is to find what they perceive as any inconsistency or unexplained element. And they pounce on this as "proof" that the entire "mainstream" narrative collapses.

One of their main themes is that the event was far too complex for it to have been done by a bunch of terrorists operating out of caves. But it actual fact the hijacking of planes and flying them into very easily seen huge targets on a day of unlimited visibility was quite simple, low tech and at the time easy to pull off. The fact that their operation was so low tech made it rather difficult for our intelligence services to identify it in advance or who the hijackers were. Of course once it happened they figured out from the airline manifests it was the "arabe/moslems" on board. But none of them would be persons of interest unless they had been involved in suspicious activity prior to 9/11. But to truthers this defies credulity.
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Old 19th July 2018, 01:57 AM   #100
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and let me again point out that the "cave dwelling Arabs" theme is a racist fiction created by Truthers. These were college educated smart, practical guys who happened to embrace Islamic extremism. It sounds like a very right-wingy thing to say, but clearly nobody has a monopoly on ethnic prejudice and some left-wingers who want to absolve Al Qaeda of responsibility will invariably invoke that stereotype as well.

I think most of those caves they imagine these terrorists dwell in are actually the rocky hideouts seen in pictures of Afghanistan/Pakistan.
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Old 19th July 2018, 03:54 AM   #101
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The point I am trying to make can be summed up by asking, give one name of a Democrat politician who used a conspiracy theory - any conspiracy - as part of their platform. There are a couple, but the reason you can't think of any is that they are so obscure. Conspiracy theory is so widely referred to among Republicans that it can be thought of as part of their platform. Republican voters respond to it so well that even presidential candidates aren't ostracized for bringing it up.
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I've seen it here and in several other places that there is no Illuminati. That doesn't even make sense. There's a Wikipedia entry that talks about it. I'm not saying that everything on Wikipedia is true, but if you read it, it's just really clear how the Illuminati controls the world.
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Old 19th July 2018, 08:01 AM   #102
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Originally Posted by Scott Sommers View Post
The point I am trying to make can be summed up by asking, give one name of a Democrat politician who used a conspiracy theory - any conspiracy - as part of their platform. There are a couple, but the reason you can't think of any is that they are so obscure. Conspiracy theory is so widely referred to among Republicans that it can be thought of as part of their platform. Republican voters respond to it so well that even presidential candidates aren't ostracized for bringing it up.


Donald Trump actually appeared on Infowars. Had any Democratic candidate for any office done the same thing, the right wing would have held it up as prima facie evidence that they were entirely unqualified to hold any office, anywhere, ever.

But the Republicans went and elected him President.
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Old 19th July 2018, 01:49 PM   #103
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Originally Posted by Scott Sommers View Post
The point I am trying to make can be summed up by asking, give one name of a Democrat politician who used a conspiracy theory - any conspiracy - as part of their platform. There are a couple, but the reason you can't think of any is that they are so obscure. Conspiracy theory is so widely referred to among Republicans that it can be thought of as part of their platform. Republican voters respond to it so well that even presidential candidates aren't ostracized for bringing it up.
The whole "Bush lied about WMDs" line from the democratic playbook of the mid- to late-00s was, and still is, a very persistent conspiracy theory on the left. The Bush admin certain got the intelligence wrong on Iraq, but, as far as I know, there is no significant evidence that there was a concerted, conscious effort at the top of the Bush admin to get it wrong or misrepresent it. Of course, right on cue, Trump, who never met a conspiracy theory he didn't like to sling, showed up to the Republican debates and tried to re-spin this claim as his own attack on the establishment. I also think some of the economic messaging embraced by the far left re "the 1%" plays on conspiracy theory themes and sympathies, though the outlines of the implied conspiracies are never articulated with much specificity. Lastly, many mainstream democrats have been willing to jump to conclusions, explicitly or implicitly, re Trump's culpability in Russia's pre-election meddling and I have seen my facebook light up with some very explicit claims about how Trump is a Russian puppet, Trump got some real estate deal quid pro quo, Russia has dirt on Trump, etc. etc., etc. There is even a nascent movement on the far left side of congress to impeach Trump based on such heretofore unproven claims. Such claims are all in the realm of conspiracy theory at this point, though there is of course a mounting pile of bad deeds surrounding team Trump as relates to Russia.

Of course, with Trump at the helm, there is no doubt that the sheer volume of conspiracy theory-related claims applicable to mainstream politics coming from the right dwarfs that coming from the left. It's partly because Trump spews conspiracy theories day in and day out and the media has to repeat and dissect them given that he is president, but I suspect this echo effect is small compared to the effect of Trump spewing garbage nonstop in the first place.
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Old 20th July 2018, 12:19 AM   #104
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Originally Posted by benthamitemetric View Post
The whole "Bush lied about WMDs" line from the democratic playbook of the mid- to late-00s was, and still is, a very persistent conspiracy theory on the left. The Bush admin certain got the intelligence wrong on Iraq, but, as far as I know, there is no significant evidence that there was a concerted, conscious effort at the top of the Bush admin to get it wrong or misrepresent it. Of course, right on cue, Trump, who never met a conspiracy theory he didn't like to sling, showed up to the Republican debates and tried to re-spin this claim as his own attack on the establishment. I also think some of the economic messaging embraced by the far left re "the 1%" plays on conspiracy theory themes and sympathies, though the outlines of the implied conspiracies are never articulated with much specificity. Lastly, many mainstream democrats have been willing to jump to conclusions, explicitly or implicitly, re Trump's culpability in Russia's pre-election meddling and I have seen my facebook light up with some very explicit claims about how Trump is a Russian puppet, Trump got some real estate deal quid pro quo, Russia has dirt on Trump, etc. etc., etc. There is even a nascent movement on the far left side of congress to impeach Trump based on such heretofore unproven claims. Such claims are all in the realm of conspiracy theory at this point, though there is of course a mounting pile of bad deeds surrounding team Trump as relates to Russia.

Of course, with Trump at the helm, there is no doubt that the sheer volume of conspiracy theory-related claims applicable to mainstream politics coming from the right dwarfs that coming from the left. It's partly because Trump spews conspiracy theories day in and day out and the media has to repeat and dissect them given that he is president, but I suspect this echo effect is small compared to the effect of Trump spewing garbage nonstop in the first place.
But you aren't addressing my point. Name me one Democrat politician at any level of government who has incorporated any conspiracy theory into their platform. Like I've said, there are a few, but I know them because this is important to me. You won't be able to name one.

There are literally hundreds of Republican politicians, from years before Trump was the president, who use all kinds of conspiracy theories, including 9/11 Truth, as part of their campaign.

If you don't think this is important, then say that. But at least address my point. Am I wrong?
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I've seen it here and in several other places that there is no Illuminati. That doesn't even make sense. There's a Wikipedia entry that talks about it. I'm not saying that everything on Wikipedia is true, but if you read it, it's just really clear how the Illuminati controls the world.

Last edited by Scott Sommers; 20th July 2018 at 12:31 AM.
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Old 20th July 2018, 05:10 AM   #105
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Originally Posted by Scott Sommers View Post
But you aren't addressing my point. Name me one Democrat politician at any level of government who has incorporated any conspiracy theory into their platform. Like I've said, there are a few, but I know them because this is important to me. You won't be able to name one.

There are literally hundreds of Republican politicians, from years before Trump was the president, who use all kinds of conspiracy theories, including 9/11 Truth, as part of their campaign.

If you don't think this is important, then say that. But at least address my point. Am I wrong?
Can you define platform as you are using it here? Are there actually conspiracy theories in the republican platform? I wouldn’t be shocked, but I thought you were using platform as shorthand for the positions the politicians themselves espouse, in which case my examples hold, no? I really don’t think anyone but extremely diehard politicos care about what party platforms say now anyway.

I will also add to the list above most of the positions espoused by Cynthia McKinney and Dennis Kucinnich. Yes, they were never actually nominated like Trump, but they were taken seriously as Democratic politicians and presidential candidates. Unless you are using political platform in the strict, only-positions-codified-in-official-party-platforms sense, I think it’s fair to say the platforms espoused by those two were rife with conspiracy theories, most of which I did not outline.

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Old 20th July 2018, 07:23 AM   #106
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You surprise me. You do know who they are. Then you'll know that both of them are opportunists and will run for nomination with any party that they think will have them.

And you'll also know that that's it. That's the end of the line for conspiracy theory among Democrats. And since you looked through all of my links, you'll know that dozens, perhaps hundreds, of Republicans candidates regularly talk about conspiracy theories at nomination rallies and to the press.

Honestly, you must be feigning ignorance if you'll compare McKinney and Kucinich with the hoards of Republican candidates and elected officials who talk openly about their beliefs in conspiracy theories. There are so many of them, I can't even list them in a single post, and you must know this. There are entire Internet forums dedicated to conspiracy theories perpetuated by Republicans. But you did read my original post and you're not just faking it that you read the links? Right?
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Old 20th July 2018, 08:25 AM   #107
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Originally Posted by Scott Sommers View Post
You surprise me. You do know who they are. Then you'll know that both of them are opportunists and will run for nomination with any party that they think will have them.

And you'll also know that that's it. That's the end of the line for conspiracy theory among Democrats. And since you looked through all of my links, you'll know that dozens, perhaps hundreds, of Republicans candidates regularly talk about conspiracy theories at nomination rallies and to the press.

Honestly, you must be feigning ignorance if you'll compare McKinney and Kucinich with the hoards of Republican candidates and elected officials who talk openly about their beliefs in conspiracy theories. There are so many of them, I can't even list them in a single post, and you must know this. There are entire Internet forums dedicated to conspiracy theories perpetuated by Republicans. But you did read my original post and you're not just faking it that you read the links? Right?
I get the sense that you want to argue whereas I'm not actually arguing against you. I think I've agreed multiple times that there is an abundance of conspiratorial talk on the right, especially since Trump's election, and that at present rightwing conspiracy theories drownout leftist conspiracy theories in the national conversation (including, but not limited to, the portion of that conversation generated by elected officials). I do think, however, there are significant lines of conspiracy theory promotion on the left as well, which shouldn't be ignored just because the Trumpian line of conspiracy theories is presently so strong. McKinney and Kucinich are easy example because they ran for president, but they were also both Democrats who were elected as Democrats to public offices of significance. And they are certainly not the only ones on the left, let alone the only elected Democrat officials, who believe and espouse the sorts of theories that they do. Take Maxine Waters, for example, who is a sitting Democratic congressperson who still promotes various conspiracy theories about Goldman Sachs, Jason Chaffetz, the Trump admin, etc.. As I pointed out, even now, there are several lines of conspiracy theories that have been widely embraced by the elected Democrats and you haven't really responded to any of those (you could add to them all sorts of claims about oil companies, including "war for oil," which is another popular anti-Bush conspiracy undeniably promoted by many elected Democrats, monsanto, and GMOs).

Here's a solid article from the NYT that talks about anti-Trump conspiracy theories in the early days of the Trump administration (with some good embedded links), for example: https://www.nytimes.com/2017/02/15/u...-theories.html

Here's another from Vox: https://www.vox.com/world/2017/5/19/...-louise-mensch

These lines of thinking about Trump and Russia are percolating through the far left and being spoken by elected Democrats and mainstream operatives.

Unfortunately for everyone, conspiracy theory promotion in support of a partisan worldview is not just a problem on the left or the right; its a problem that affects diehards in both camps, even if both are not equally present in the national conversation, as I've readily acknowledged several times.

On a personal note, I find the the leftist conspiracy theories of late to be particularly bothersome because they feed the "whataboutism" reflex of the pro-Trump diehards and reduce the ability of people to successfully persuade marginal Trump supporters of the dire and troubling nature of Trump's various pet theories. Pointing out their existence does not in any way diminish the nature or severity of the current conspiratorial fervor in the rightwing fever swamp.

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Old 23rd July 2018, 04:26 AM   #108
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Van Jones.
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Old 23rd July 2018, 04:37 PM   #109
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Kucinich introduced two articles of impeachment against George W. Bush, claiming he stole the vote in Ohio in 2004. There are any number of wacko Democrats who got on that particular train, including John Conyers. How many have railed against voting machines, citing CTers like Bob Fitrakis. How many believe that Trump stole 2016 with the aid of the Russians? How many support GMO labeling?
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Old 24th July 2018, 06:52 PM   #110
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Originally Posted by Wolrab View Post
Van Jones.
He denied he signed the particular petition, and no verification could be found that he signed it. Even if he did somehow get his name onto it, he was not vocal about it.
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Old 24th July 2018, 10:51 PM   #111
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In the UK, from my own experience, the Truthers are all on the left/ alternative end of the spectrum. It's a complete package, including chemtrails, vaccines etc. I have yet to meet or encounter a right-winger with the same beliefs.
Then, of course, there are the Muslim conspiracy theories, which are more religious/ cultural than politically-based.
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Old 25th July 2018, 04:09 AM   #112
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Truthers not truthful? Inconceivable!

Originally Posted by LSSBB View Post
He denied he signed the particular petition, and no verification could be found that he signed it. Even if he did somehow get his name onto it, he was not vocal about it.
https://www.weeklystandard.com/mary-...-march-in-2002

Quote:
In connection with this news, we have assembled 100 notable Americans and 40 family members of those who died to sign this 9/11 Statement, whichcalls for immediate public attention to unanswered questions that suggest that people within the current administration may indeed have deliberately allowed 9/11 to happen, perhaps as a pretext for war.
https://www.theatlantic.com/politics...atement/24507/
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Old 25th July 2018, 06:32 PM   #113
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Originally Posted by Wolrab View Post
http://911truth.org/2004-truth-state...-911truth-org/

Quote:
In early September of 2009, Van Jones contacted the current board of 911truth.org asking to be removed from the 911 Truth Statement, which was created in the Fall of 2004. Since the current members were not working with 911truth.org in 2004, former Board members researched the situation and were unable to produce electronic or written evidence that Van agreed to sign the Statement. Based on what we were able to ascertain from memories, it is plausible he was asked verbally through an intermediary without reviewing the full text, as he has stated. Because we do not have a written signature and his view is that he does not agree with the Statement, the current Board removed his signature as requested on Sept. 9, 2009, for the organization respects each personís right to have their views accurately represented.

Of the original signatories, 97 out of the 100 and all of the family members remain behind this important call for an independent investigation into unanswered questions around 9/11, a group that includes respected academics, former government officials, journalists, and political leaders. 911truth.org invites media and government officials to take this Statement from a range of notable Americans seriously while respecting that Jones should not be seen as part of this group.
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Old 25th July 2018, 11:35 PM   #114
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Originally Posted by LSSBB View Post
Possibly slightly OT, but who are they expecting will set up this 'independent investigation"?
From my reading of their statement, they want the US government to do it, in which case it surely won't fit their definition of independent.
Can't they just investigate it themselves?
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Old 26th July 2018, 04:42 AM   #115
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I don't why this matters. My perception is that 911 conspiracy theory is more visible in the media for those on the right. What might be interesting is to examine if right wing politics is more prone to the "deep state" stuff than the left wing and what is the core reason a politician counts themselves a conspiracy believer. I don't think many people do anything like "fundamental research" and so their conspiracy beliefs are informed by what they read or who in the truther movement they believe is telling the truth. It's a matter of trust (but no verify). I don't think McKinney or Kuscinich is capable of understanding the technical issues. They may be intelligent enough, but they have no technical background... like so many truthers. They simply buy into what APPEARS to be evidence.

If a pitch appears credible, gullible will buy. This applies to intelligent people.
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Old 26th July 2018, 07:10 PM   #116
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Then there are those such as Jim Fetzer who have smoothly gone from "left wing" to "right wing". Fetzer once espoused conspiracy theories such as that the fatal plane crash of Democratic Senator Paul Wellstone was "really" an assassination. Now, he touts Sandy Hook conspiracy theories, "Pizzagate", and that the "Deep State" is plotting a "coup" against Donald Trump.
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Old 27th July 2018, 06:58 AM   #117
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Originally Posted by Redwood View Post
Then there are those such as Jim Fetzer who have smoothly gone from "left wing" to "right wing". Fetzer once espoused conspiracy theories such as that the fatal plane crash of Democratic Senator Paul Wellstone was "really" an assassination. Now, he touts Sandy Hook conspiracy theories, "Pizzagate", and that the "Deep State" is plotting a "coup" against Donald Trump.
He's definitely nuts
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Old 27th July 2018, 08:19 AM   #118
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Originally Posted by Redwood View Post
Then there are those such as Jim Fetzer who have smoothly gone from "left wing" to "right wing". Fetzer once espoused conspiracy theories such as that the fatal plane crash of Democratic Senator Paul Wellstone was "really" an assassination. Now, he touts Sandy Hook conspiracy theories, "Pizzagate", and that the "Deep State" is plotting a "coup" against Donald Trump.
Follow the attention.
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Old 27th July 2018, 08:22 AM   #119
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Originally Posted by Cosmic Yak View Post
Possibly slightly OT, but who are they expecting will set up this 'independent investigation"?
From my reading of their statement, they want the US government to do it, in which case it surely won't fit their definition of independent.
Can't they just investigate it themselves?
They've always been rather hazy on that. Maybe they all thought Rand Paul would be chair, or something. I'm picturing they are fantasizing about the Star Chamber, myself.
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Old 27th July 2018, 09:14 AM   #120
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Originally Posted by LSSBB View Post
They've always been rather hazy on that. Maybe they all thought Rand Paul would be chair, or something. I'm picturing they are fantasizing about the Star Chamber, myself.

They want subpoena power, because, in addition to potentially being useful for getting at "the truth," they believe they'd be able to use it to air all the dirty laundry of TPTB.
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