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Tags police issues , police misconduct charges

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Old 26th August 2019, 08:32 AM   #1201
Babbylonian
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Originally Posted by Nessie View Post
I witnessed an assault and was asked to attend a video line up. The person I saw had a distinctive scar on his face. The video line up was of faces with pixles over the part of the face that was scarred, so it was made impossible to pick out who was the suspect!!!
It wasn't impossible. You just failed. The reason for having lineups where everyone appears to be scarred in a similar way (or faces are obscured in the same area), appears to be missing the same teeth, appears to have injured the same limb, appears to have the same distinctive hairstyle, and on and on is because a suspect shouldn't be able to be distinguished in a proper lineup by one characteristic that can't possibly be verified to be unique.

On the most basic level, if a suspect was identified as being tall and fat with graying blond hair and a bushy beard, it would be unfair to put a suspect matching those attributes in a lineup with a bunch of short, skinny, clean-shaven brunettes. The same would apply to any other characteristic a witness finds notable enough to mention. If they don't, they might as well tell the witness which person to identify.

In the example under discussion, the Portland Police should have found pictures to resemble the actual suspect. Instead, they doctored the suspect's photo to match witness descriptions because they wanted to help witnesses identify the suspect they arrested. They did the exact opposite of what they're supposed to.
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Old 30th August 2019, 12:10 AM   #1202
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A South Carolina police officer has been fired after fining an elderly man who confronted him about closing a restroom door at a restaurant.

According to the Belton officer's own report, the elderly man who was sitting at a table not far from the restroom doors "loudly" and "boisterously" asked "you not going to shut the door?" when the officer emerged from the restroom and apparently left it open. The officer then challenged the man, threatening him with arrest for the outburst.

A witness sitting nearby began to film the encounter, but quickly stopped when the officer noticed, turning to her and saying "ma’am, do I need to take that phone from you?" According to this witness, the officer handcuffed and released the elderly man multiple times in turn, both at the restaurant table and again outside when he eventually ordered the man out of the restaurant with him. The man was eventually given a $257 ticket for "disorderly conduct". He has said since the officer's firing that he does not know if the ticket has been nullified or not.
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Old 31st August 2019, 05:34 AM   #1203
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Two New York police officers get 5 years probation for taking turns having sex in exchange for her freedom with a handcuffed 18-year old woman they had arrested for possession of marijuana
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Old 31st August 2019, 08:53 AM   #1204
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Originally Posted by Squeegee Beckenheim View Post
Quote:
The rape charges were dropped because the victim's credibility was "seriously, seriously questionable" and the charges could not be proved beyond reasonable doubt, said Justice Danny Chun.
Yeah, you betcha. The cops admitted they had sex with her instead of arresting her (for virtually the most minor possible crime in this day and age) and then resigned. Oh, and she reported the incident immediately and had an examination with samples taken at a hospital, which is supposed to be the ideal situation in a rape case. But it's the victim's credibility that's the problem.

It's a serious indictment of the justice system in terms of how it treats cops with kid gloves and how it tells rape victims they really shouldn't even bother reporting.
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Old 31st August 2019, 09:04 AM   #1205
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Originally Posted by Babbylonian View Post
Yeah, you betcha. The cops admitted they had sex with her instead of arresting her (for virtually the most minor possible crime in this day and age) and then resigned. Oh, and she reported the incident immediately and had an examination with samples taken at a hospital, which is supposed to be the ideal situation in a rape case. But it's the victim's credibility that's the problem.

It's a serious indictment of the justice system in terms of how it treats cops with kid gloves and how it tells rape victims they really shouldn't even bother reporting.
Two cops rape a woman they arrested and it's "her credibility" that's the issue!! How ****** does a cop have to be before their credibility becomes the issue?
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Old 31st August 2019, 09:24 AM   #1206
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Originally Posted by qayak View Post
Two cops rape a woman they arrested and it's "her credibility" that's the issue!! How ****** does a cop have to be before their credibility becomes the issue?
How can sex with a person in custody even be consensual in the first place? Could a kidnapper avoid a rape charge by claiming the victim consented?

An excerpt from New York law from FindLaw:
Quote:
A person is guilty of rape in the first degree when he or she engages in sexual intercourse with another person:
  • By "forcible compulsion" -- compelling the victim through the use of physical force or the threat of immediate death, physical injury or kidnapping;
Handcuffs, back of a van...if they're not arresting her, then she's being kidnapped.
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Old 31st August 2019, 10:55 AM   #1207
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Originally Posted by qayak View Post
Two cops rape a woman they arrested and it's "her credibility" that's the issue!! How ****** does a cop have to be before their credibility becomes the issue?
Exactly. So now, they resign and go off to start another job, no jail time, no fine (?), and remain relatively unscathed with little repercussions. However, the young lady will have to deal with life-long trauma. It is a trauma that will effect her forever, I know this.
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Old 4th September 2019, 10:51 AM   #1208
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Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey View Post
Florida prison guard breaks neck of 51 year old woman for inadequately cleaning a toilet.

https://www.miamiherald.com/news/sta...234299092.html
Update:

https://reason.com/2019/09/04/lawsui...ate-paralyzed/

The woman inmate is quadriplegic, permanently paralyzed due to a neck injury sustained from a beating at the hands of 4 jailkeepers.

USA! USA! USA!
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Old 4th September 2019, 10:55 AM   #1209
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Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey View Post
Update:

https://reason.com/2019/09/04/lawsui...ate-paralyzed/

The woman inmate is quadriplegic, permanently paralyzed due to a neck injury sustained from a beating at the hands of 4 jailkeepers.

USA! USA! USA!
A true laugh riot.
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Old 10th September 2019, 08:01 AM   #1210
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As a result of body cam footage, it was found that the police officer's report was ... um ... incorrect.

https://twitter.com/nowthisnews/stat...36600350605312

Summary: Police told guy to go sit over there, or something like that. He went over there. Now, it's not clear what happened, whether he said something or something else, but a cop comes after him, gets up in his face and starts hitting him. The other cops prevent anyone from coming to his aid. The guy is arrested for "resisting."

Cop report describes situation that does not match reality. When video comes out, charges are dropped.

You know, if these guys would just follow the commands, there wouldn't be any problem, right?
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Old 10th September 2019, 09:11 AM   #1211
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Originally Posted by pgwenthold View Post
As a result of body cam footage, it was found that the police officer's report was ... um ... incorrect.

https://twitter.com/nowthisnews/stat...36600350605312

Summary: Police told guy to go sit over there, or something like that. He went over there. Now, it's not clear what happened, whether he said something or something else, but a cop comes after him, gets up in his face and starts hitting him. The other cops prevent anyone from coming to his aid. The guy is arrested for "resisting."

Cop report describes situation that does not match reality. When video comes out, charges are dropped.

You know, if these guys would just follow the commands, there wouldn't be any problem, right?
Thankfully obstruction of justice and falsifying a police report are not crimes the police can commit.
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Old 10th September 2019, 01:27 PM   #1212
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Originally Posted by ponderingturtle View Post
Thankfully obstruction of justice and falsifying a police report are not crimes the police can commit.
Blue Lies Don't Matter.
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Old 10th September 2019, 01:42 PM   #1213
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Here's an interesting recent law that is in this overall topic but not worthy of it's own thread.

California recently repealed it's law, a very common law that many states have some version of, that makes it illegal to refuse to assist police officer in the course of their duties.

Here's the thing. In 2005 Warren V. District of Columbia set the legal the precedent that the police are not legally obligated to help you. So over 15 years a state made it a crime to not assist a police officer in doing something that they legally didn't have to do.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Warren...ct_of_Columbia

https://www.cnn.com/2019/09/04/us/ca...rnd/index.html
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Old 10th September 2019, 02:46 PM   #1214
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Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey View Post
Update:

https://reason.com/2019/09/04/lawsui...ate-paralyzed/

The woman inmate is quadriplegic, permanently paralyzed due to a neck injury sustained from a beating at the hands of 4 jailkeepers.

USA! USA! USA!

USA! USA! USA!??? Do you think prisons in the USA even come close to competing with some of the world's worst prisons? Doesn't make this incident okay, just wondering about the chant at the end of your post.
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Old 10th September 2019, 02:51 PM   #1215
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Originally Posted by mgidm86 View Post
USA! USA! USA!??? Do you think prisons in the USA even come close to competing with some of the world's worst prisons? Doesn't make this incident okay, just wondering about the chant at the end of your post.
That's a weird ass red herring to make, but if you're forced to defend police this is the nonsensical stuff you come up with.

How do they compare to other first world prisons?
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Old 10th September 2019, 03:14 PM   #1216
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Originally Posted by pgwenthold View Post
As a result of body cam footage, it was found that the police officer's report was ... um ... incorrect.

https://twitter.com/nowthisnews/stat...36600350605312

Summary: Police told guy to go sit over there, or something like that. He went over there. Now, it's not clear what happened, whether he said something or something else, but a cop comes after him, gets up in his face and starts hitting him. The other cops prevent anyone from coming to his aid. The guy is arrested for "resisting."

Cop report describes situation that does not match reality. When video comes out, charges are dropped.

You know, if these guys would just follow the commands, there wouldn't be any problem, right?
One would have hoped you wouldn't need the bodycam footage as there were plenty of non police witnesses and plenty of police witnesses that all could have provided statements contradicting the written report.
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Old 11th September 2019, 03:06 AM   #1217
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Originally Posted by plague311 View Post
That's a weird ass red herring to make, but if you're forced to defend police this is the nonsensical stuff you come up with.

How do they compare to other first world prisons?
Bah you are a fool to think of the US as a first world nation, we are clearly not and never will be in those illustrious ranks. We are third world at best and need to be considered as such. As long as we beat out say north korea we are doing fine!

Though of course if Otto Warmbier beating and death had happened in american prisons no one would care or suggest that something wrong happened.
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Old 11th September 2019, 04:17 AM   #1218
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Originally Posted by mgidm86 View Post
USA! USA! USA!??? Do you think prisons in the USA even come close to competing with some of the world's worst prisons? Doesn't make this incident okay, just wondering about the chant at the end of your post.
Shining city on a hill Better than the most oppressive regimes known to man.

Is that really the standard we should expect?
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Old 11th September 2019, 02:06 PM   #1219
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As long as we aren't any worse than the worst and most brutal regimes in the world then that means everything is just fine.

It can't happen here.
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Old 11th September 2019, 03:06 PM   #1220
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Originally Posted by quadraginta View Post
As long as we aren't any worse than the worst and most brutal regimes in the world then that means everything is just fine.

Which is why I tend to refer to the US as a third-world country with advanced technology. We're rapidly sliding into the cyberpunk dystopias I read about as a teen.
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Old 12th September 2019, 10:59 AM   #1221
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Originally Posted by luchog View Post
Which is why I tend to refer to the US as a third-world country with advanced technology. We're rapidly sliding into the cyberpunk dystopias I read about as a teen.
It’s not even that complicated anymore.

We’re a ******** country. Full stop
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Old 12th September 2019, 05:53 PM   #1222
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Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey View Post
Shining city on a hill Better than the most oppressive regimes known to man.

Is that really the standard we should expect?

If it is your assertion that US prisons are some of the worst out there then I would like to see some evidence.

I'm not sure which statistics will suffice but my searching has shown me that the US is near the top as far as inmate conditions and treatment go. Norway is one of the best due to their methods of rehabilitation.

Again - your chant of USA! USA! USA! leads me to believe you think we must rank pretty low. If not, my apologies for misunderstanding, but your quote above makes me think otherwise.

Do you think our prisons are that bad, and if so, how did you reach this conclusion?
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Old 12th September 2019, 10:55 PM   #1223
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Originally Posted by mgidm86 View Post
If it is your assertion that US prisons are some of the worst out there then I would like to see some evidence.

<snip>

You were the one who brought up the comparison. Don't expect other people to argue you straw man.

The question isn't whether our prisons are the worst, it is whether they could be better.

And I don't think that's really much of a question. There's a reason male rape jokes, beatings, and gangs tend to go with nearly every mention of U.S. prisons, and it isn't hyperbole.

If you had to spend a few years in prison, would you rather do it in the U.S., or in Sweden?
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Old 12th September 2019, 11:38 PM   #1224
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Originally Posted by mgidm86 View Post
I'm not sure which statistics will suffice but my searching has shown me that the US is near the top as far as inmate conditions and treatment go.
I think you need to show some workings for this one.

As quadraginta points out gangs and inmate safety are big problems in US prisons.

To European eyes, the conditions in which many US prisoners are kept seem unbelievable harsh. Perhaps this is in part due to the various types of prison so while conditions in federal prisons may be of a generally acceptable quality, state prisons can vary hugely from state to state.
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Old 13th September 2019, 08:12 PM   #1225
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Originally Posted by quadraginta View Post
You were the one who brought up the comparison. Don't expect other people to argue you straw man.

The question isn't whether our prisons are the worst, it is whether they could be better.
Quote:
And I don't think that's really much of a question. There's a reason male rape jokes, beatings, and gangs tend to go with nearly every mention of U.S. prisons, and it isn't hyperbole.
Ya that's some solid evidence there! Prison rape jokes proves it! I'm sure this is the only country where that happens. "Nearly every mention" is not hyperbole either - got it.

Quote:
If you had to spend a few years in prison, would you rather do it in the U.S., or in Sweden?
Sweden and Norway have some of the best prisons, so I read. Question answered. After that or close to it, probably USA.

And it wasn't a straw man, I asked a question!...

Quote:
Again - your chant of USA! USA! USA! leads me to believe you think we must rank pretty low. If not, my apologies for misunderstanding, but your quote above makes me think otherwise.

PT made the claim that the USA is worse than a third world country, and I'm supposed to take you guys seriously? Get off the USA bashing and say something that actually makes sense. Prison rape jokes? FFS.

Someone asked me for evidence that US prisons aren't so bad.

https://www.therichest.com/shocking/...o-easy-on-you/


Never heard of this site but there isn't a lot to choose from. At least I tried. Your turn ST.

Quote:
Although there is still a lot that can be improved, when comparing to the rest of the world, jails in America are far less horrible. The judicial system in America is good compared to the rest of the world and the standard of living in prisons is a lot higher than average.

However, there are still a lot of improvements to be done in order to provide more support for those behind bars.

USA does have a few notorious prisons - Rikers is one.

I think we need to talk about prison systems though, not individual facilities.

There, I answered your pitiful questions and fielded your "straw man" claim. If SuburbanTurkey can't answer my question I guess I'll just keep answering all of yours.

Pathetic.
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Old 15th September 2019, 05:05 PM   #1226
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Old 16th September 2019, 04:23 AM   #1227
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Originally Posted by The Don View Post
I think you need to show some workings for this one.

As quadraginta points out gangs and inmate safety are big problems in US prisons.

To European eyes, the conditions in which many US prisoners are kept seem unbelievable harsh. Perhaps this is in part due to the various types of prison so while conditions in federal prisons may be of a generally acceptable quality, state prisons can vary hugely from state to state.
Yea but you have to remember much of the prison system was set up originally as a replacement for slavery so you have to expect it to be harsh. That was entirely the point.
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Old 16th September 2019, 04:32 AM   #1228
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Last time I checked the US has over a million police officers.

I doubt they are all dodgy
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Old 16th September 2019, 04:51 AM   #1229
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Originally Posted by cullennz View Post
Last time I checked the US has over a million police officers.

I doubt they are all dodgy
There are a few decent ones, who generally get driven out, no one likes a rat after all.
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Old 16th September 2019, 04:53 AM   #1230
pgwenthold
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Originally Posted by Trebuchet View Post
Good gravy, that's not police, it's friggin military
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Old 16th September 2019, 05:23 AM   #1231
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Originally Posted by mgidm86 View Post
If it is your assertion that US prisons are some of the worst out there then I would like to see some evidence.

I'm not sure which statistics will suffice but my searching has shown me that the US is near the top as far as inmate conditions and treatment go. Norway is one of the best due to their methods of rehabilitation.

Again - your chant of USA! USA! USA! leads me to believe you think we must rank pretty low. If not, my apologies for misunderstanding, but your quote above makes me think otherwise.

Do you think our prisons are that bad, and if so, how did you reach this conclusion?
I would criticize the US prison systems in two ways: quality and overuse.

Quality is very uneven. Some of the worst prisons in the country are actually local jails. Where you get arrested and serve time matters a lot, because standards vary.

Here's something that is an undeniable fact. The US is the largest jailer of its own citizens in the world, by like a lot. Per 2013 study, 716 per 100000 of the population are incarcerated.

Not sure if this is true anymore, China might technically be in the lead with their mass scale action against their Muslim minorities. But among the western democracies, the US is by far in first.

https://www.prisonstudies.org/sites/...ds/wppl_10.pdf
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Old 16th September 2019, 05:44 AM   #1232
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Originally Posted by mgidm86 View Post
If it is your assertion that US prisons are some of the worst out there then I would like to see some evidence.
The US is a world leader in using indefinite solitary confinement, a practice violating the prohibition against cruel or inhuman punishment in the UN Convention Against Torture of which the US is a signatory.

https://www.amnestyusa.org/the-shock...n-u-s-prisons/
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Old 16th September 2019, 05:48 AM   #1233
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I’ve been in police work for 50 years. In that time, I’ve worked with a lot of other coppers... Sure, there have been some “bad eggs”. I’ve worked with people who simply should not have been in the business.
But it seems to me that we’re veering a bit towards confirmation bias. We get the lurid news stories of police misconduct, but we very seldom get stories about the very large number of officers who simply go about their days and weeks in a professional manner.
Not very newsworthy....

As noted, somewhere around a million “sworn” officers in this country. We see abuses in other fields as well... Deaths and serious injuries due to medical malpractice are well documented. How many people are in prison or jail due to attorney incompetence or malfeasance?

Departments around the country have considerably improved hiring standards, training, policy, discipline, etc. My own department just achieved the “Internationally Accredited” certification. (Which took a couple of years....)
But as well around the country there are underfunded departments in cash-strapped communities who are barely hanging on. They tend to hire the officers that were “allowed to resign” from other departments as they can’t afford the training and such.

These communities tend to also be very problematic in terms of overall crime, gang activity, drug trafficking, etc. Officers who may be marginal are thrown into situations of high stress, little support, long hours, low pay, and little support or training. They see their community as composed of the worst of the worst, as that’s who they encounter on a daily basis. Not a healthy situation.
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Old 16th September 2019, 05:56 AM   #1234
ponderingturtle
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Originally Posted by Bikewer View Post
I’ve been in police work for 50 years. In that time, I’ve worked with a lot of other coppers... Sure, there have been some “bad eggs”. I’ve worked with people who simply should not have been in the business.
But it seems to me that we’re veering a bit towards confirmation bias. We get the lurid news stories of police misconduct, but we very seldom get stories about the very large number of officers who simply go about their days and weeks in a professional manner.
Not very newsworthy....
Except of course for all the other ones covering for their coworkers. Police misconduct is so rampant that the police officers are not even considering it misconduct.

Where are the majority of good officers at an event where one officer does a serious misdeed and they all help them cover it up?
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Old 16th September 2019, 06:38 AM   #1235
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Originally Posted by Bikewer View Post
I’ve been in police work for 50 years. In that time, I’ve worked with a lot of other coppers... Sure, there have been some “bad eggs”. I’ve worked with people who simply should not have been in the business.
But it seems to me that we’re veering a bit towards confirmation bias. We get the lurid news stories of police misconduct, but we very seldom get stories about the very large number of officers who simply go about their days and weeks in a professional manner.
Not very newsworthy....

As noted, somewhere around a million “sworn” officers in this country. We see abuses in other fields as well... Deaths and serious injuries due to medical malpractice are well documented. How many people are in prison or jail due to attorney incompetence or malfeasance?

Departments around the country have considerably improved hiring standards, training, policy, discipline, etc. My own department just achieved the “Internationally Accredited” certification. (Which took a couple of years....)
But as well around the country there are underfunded departments in cash-strapped communities who are barely hanging on. They tend to hire the officers that were “allowed to resign” from other departments as they can’t afford the training and such.

These communities tend to also be very problematic in terms of overall crime, gang activity, drug trafficking, etc. Officers who may be marginal are thrown into situations of high stress, little support, long hours, low pay, and little support or training. They see their community as composed of the worst of the worst, as that’s who they encounter on a daily basis. Not a healthy situation.
The blue line is real. Cops protect their own and have an extreme aversion to oversight.

Sure, bad actor exist in all professions. Other professions deal with this by instituting strict professional, ethical, and legal guidelines as a pre-condition of practicing the profession. The difference is that the police actively oppose most measure that would be needed to identify and eliminate these bad actors. Case after case show that when a bad cop commits a crime, "good" cops cover up for it.

The shooting of Laquan McDonald is a great example. The police department, all the way up to the Mayor, were complicit in the effort to suppress video of the shooting. The courts forced the release, otherwise the murderer cop would never have been convicted. So who's the bad cop? Van Dyke, who committed the murder? The 5 cops that erased surveillance video at the nearby Burger King? The other cops who were on scene and wrote false official accounts of the incident? The entire leadership that locked arms to hide the video from the public?

One bad apple spoils the bunch. The police are unwilling to police their own, and that compromises the entire profession.

The police are opposed to being accountable and the public knows it. The police have earned every bit of animosity and distrust, and no amount of "community policing" learning credits is going to change that. The culture of silence must be broken.
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Old 17th September 2019, 12:23 AM   #1236
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Originally Posted by cullennz View Post
Last time I checked the US has over a million police officers.

I doubt they are all dodgy

How many can you show me that have reported heir colleagues for illegal activities?
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Old 17th September 2019, 12:58 AM   #1237
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Originally Posted by Trebuchet View Post
I had to double check that I was watching the right video as I honestly thought that was a squad of soldiers! Why on earth are the police dressed like they belong in the military?
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Old 17th September 2019, 04:44 AM   #1238
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Originally Posted by Darat View Post
I had to double check that I was watching the right video as I honestly thought that was a squad of soldiers! Why on earth are the police dressed like they belong in the military?
Because they needed it for extraordinary circumstances, and just like every other time this is reasoning is used, the extraordinary response has expanded to routine circumstances.
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Old 17th September 2019, 05:12 AM   #1239
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Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey View Post
Because they needed it for extraordinary circumstances, and just like every other time this is reasoning is used, the extraordinary response has expanded to routine circumstances.
Hey they need to justify the cost of ownership, if they never use it why did they buy it in the first place?
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Old 17th September 2019, 06:05 AM   #1240
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Originally Posted by Trebuchet View Post
The right of citizens to record police (or anyone else) in public places should be enshrined together with the most basic rights. Those policemen that try stop someone from recording should be immediately expelled and then paraded through the streets and pelted with rotten vegetables.

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