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Old 4th September 2019, 09:02 AM   #41
William Parcher
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Originally Posted by plague311 View Post
The ISF isn't a charging body of any particular consequence so it really doesn't matter. Also, you aren't charging people with domestic terrorism, you're here constantly. So...again, what the hell are you talking about?
I think you know what I am talking about and are playing a semantic game right now.
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Old 4th September 2019, 09:04 AM   #42
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Originally Posted by Thermal View Post
Nooses to me were from horror movies primarily, and westerns secondarily. Yes, we'd hang homemade dummies fron the trees with an ax handle buried in their heads, tombstones with gloves reaching out of the ground, and any other homemade imagery from the old Hammer Horror flicks from Saturday TV.
Well, I'll be damned. I guess it was just a "before my generation" type of thing.

Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey View Post
*snipped for brevity*
It's totally possible this could just be a stupid kid trying to get attention by riding the coattails of what's happened around campus. If that's the case though it would make it even worse because he then would know what's been going on and then perpetuated it.
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Old 4th September 2019, 09:07 AM   #43
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Originally Posted by William Parcher View Post
I think you know what I am talking about and are playing a semantic game right now.
I've openly said I know you're complaining about how mean the ISF is to white people who are just misunderstood\crazy instead of racist. I didn't think it was subtle in my post, but whatever. You're being extremely vague and accusing a large group of people of ****. You were being hyperbolic and complaining on behalf of others with regards to the way they're treated on a message board. It's childish, and an extremely lame argument to make but you're more than welcome to make it. I can get you a bandage for that skinned knee if you'd like.
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Old 4th September 2019, 09:12 AM   #44
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When I learned how to tie a noose you had to have at least 13 turns on the noose. That looks like maybe six or seven. Not a good noose. Sad.
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Old 4th September 2019, 09:14 AM   #45
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Originally Posted by CBS 42 News
...Champaign County Assistant State’s Attorney Kristin Alferink said Smith told university police that he “only spent about 30 seconds thinking about his actions” and that even after checking social media, didn’t think his actions were serious enough to turn himself in.

Defense attorney Audrey Thompson on Tuesday declined to comment on the charges. She described her client during the arraignment as a sophomore with enough credits to graduate this year and a GPA of 3.79.

Smith enrolled at the University of Illinois in fall 2018 and is majoring in math, according to University spokeswoman Robin Kaler...
https://www.cbs42.com/news/national/...iDih9hWb_Np1oE

So, Smith has apparently confessed to doing the noose but has pleaded not guilty to the charges.
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Old 4th September 2019, 09:18 AM   #46
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Originally Posted by William Parcher View Post
https://www.cbs42.com/news/national/...iDih9hWb_Np1oE

So, Smith has apparently confessed to doing the noose but has pleaded not guilty to the charges.
Pretty standard stuff. You never plead guilty at first, and it's extremely common, as mentioned before, to get overcharged and then plea down to something lesser. He'll end up with a few misdemeanors and a deferred sentence of imposition, unless they get the racial aspect to stick. If they do, it'll stay a felony. You can take that to the bank.
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Old 4th September 2019, 09:24 AM   #47
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Originally Posted by plague311 View Post
It's childish, and an extremely lame argument to make but you're more than welcome to make it. I can get you a bandage for that skinned knee if you'd like.
It's not childish to tell another member that you can get a bandage for their skinned knee.
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Old 4th September 2019, 09:29 AM   #48
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Originally Posted by Thermal View Post
A noose makes a convenient knot for tying on to things you want to be able to reloosen. Can be handy, like other boy-scout knot-tying skills.
So are slipknots and fisherman's knots, which are both easier to tie and more practical for a number of reasons. All the times I've taught and been taught knots, nooses have never come up. Like plague 311 is saying, it could be generational; AFAIK, I'm younger than a lot of people here, and that guy is younger than me

That general caveat being mentioned, as far as I was aware, leaving nooses out randomly is widely known to be a form of racist intimidation. Of course, my earliest introduction to the idea was from a high school in my district; it was in a rural enough location that suburban crawl was just starting to hit their area and minority students were fairly new. There were frequent spats of racist violence, and hanging up nooses (or holding them up while yelling at black students) was often a part of that. I'll grant that some people might not be aware of what it usually means, but again, as far as I know, it's a widely understood idea (enough that even a bunch of high schoolers in a poor, semi-rural PNW town knew about it 10-15 years ago), this incident is following others that happened recently on that campus, and leaving a noose hanging around in a public place is such an uncommon and unwarranted act that I don't think it's stretching to assume there's probably a racist motivation, whether it's intended as edgelord humor or not.

Last edited by ArchSas; 4th September 2019 at 10:55 AM.
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Old 4th September 2019, 09:40 AM   #49
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Originally Posted by William Parcher View Post
It's not childish to tell another member that you can get a bandage for their skinned knee.
The difference is I'll never say I'm not childish.
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Old 4th September 2019, 10:39 AM   #50
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Originally Posted by Illinois Student Government
Dear Illinois Community,

This past Saturday night, a noose was found hanging inside of an elevator in a University of Illinois residence hall (Allen Hall). We are referring to the incident as it is, blatantly racist and continuation of the tradition of white supremacy and racism at this University. Acts of hate and intolerance like this one, are unacceptable and shall not be taken lightly. We condemn this incident to the highest degree and stands with all students in seeing an extensive and open investigation by the University.

Acts such as this and those who commit it have absolutely no place at this University and anywhere for that matter. These acts move us backwards and are unfortunately becoming the norm in today’s America. We stand in solidarity with Black Students for Revolution and Black United Front and their demands:

The immediate expulsion of student(s) responsible for a period of at least 2 years. The regular public reporting of all racist incidents that are reported to administration and housing. A review of policies related to the discipline of perpetrators of racial hatred, made in conjunction with affected student communities...
https://blogs.illinois.edu/view/7112

They have no checkbox for innocent but stupid pranking.
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Old 4th September 2019, 10:46 AM   #51
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Originally Posted by William Parcher View Post
https://blogs.illinois.edu/view/7112

They have no checkbox for innocent but stupid pranking.
"Another noose". Just wanted to reiterate, this is the second noose. The first was one left on the chair of a black employee by another employee and is cited in the lawsuit against the university.

It's hard to imagine that this was just a coincidence and that the student wasn't aware of the first noose incident.
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Old 4th September 2019, 10:59 AM   #52
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Originally Posted by Thermal View Post
Decorating the yard at Halloween called for nooses and dummys in my old hometown, in addition to tombstones and the other 'we don't have the cash for decorations but damned if we aren't gonna have fun' low-tech displays.

A noose makes a convenient knot for tying on to things you want to be able to reloosen. Can be handy, like other boy-scout knot-tying skills.

I think it was on the Boeing noose thread, I mentioned that I hadn't learned about racial lynching till I was in high school. A noose didn't have the race hate murder connotations it has now. Maybe because I grew up in a Union State, I dunno.
I grew up in the UK and knew about that as a teenager.
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Old 4th September 2019, 11:01 AM   #53
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Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey View Post
It's hard to imagine that this was just a coincidence and that the student wasn't aware of the first noose incident.
It is possible that Smith was unaware of the previous noose incident at this university. That incident occurred in 2016 while Smith enrolled at this campus in the fall of 2018.
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Old 4th September 2019, 11:04 AM   #54
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Originally Posted by William Parcher View Post
It is possible that Smith was unaware of the previous noose incident at this university. That incident occurred in 2016 while Smith enrolled at this campus in the fall of 2018.
It's an ongoing case involving the university. I imagine it's a regular topic of discussion on campus.
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Old 4th September 2019, 11:05 AM   #55
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Originally Posted by ABC 7 News
The Resident Hall Director Brandon Evilla sent out an email notice of the incident to all the students at Allen Hall.

"Residents were rightfully very triggered and upset by this sight as it carries with it significant anti-black sentiments, racially based bigotry, and implications related to suicide and self-harm," the email said. "As the leader of this community, I am sending this email to make a clear statement that this incident and others like it will absolutely not be tolerated in Allen Hall. Choosing to do this is not a 'joke', it is in fact a 'big deal', and nobody is 'too sensitive' for being upset that this has occurred."...
https://abc7chicago.com/noose-found-...vator/5509119/

The body that governs the dorms also has no checkbox for innocent but stupid pranking.
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Old 4th September 2019, 11:09 AM   #56
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Originally Posted by William Parcher View Post
https://abc7chicago.com/noose-found-...vator/5509119/

The body that governs the dorms also has no checkbox for innocent but stupid pranking.
More likely they just don't think that displaying a noose should check that box. Sometimes "I didn't mean to" isn't an acceptable excuse. Sometimes you have to mean NOT to.
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Old 4th September 2019, 11:13 AM   #57
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
More likely they just don't think that displaying a noose should check that box. Sometimes "I didn't mean to" isn't an acceptable excuse. Sometimes you have to mean NOT to.
Yup
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Old 4th September 2019, 11:28 AM   #58
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Originally Posted by arthwollipot View Post
Several people, including you (cullenz), have been assuming, based on hair, eyeliner and duckface alone, that they are transgender.
I was never assuming transgender.

It doesn't really matter, but I'm not sure that we are seeing eyeliner rather than large false eyelashes (top only). It is possibly both, but I'm pretty sure I see false eyelashes.

Have a look: https://www.washingtonpost.com/resiz...BKIWK3L5WY.jpg
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Old 4th September 2019, 01:00 PM   #59
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I think it's possible that some sort of math genius could have made a noose not thinking about the societal consequences of leaving it somewhere.

I think it's possible that some sort of math genius could have made a noose and consciously thought they could get away with leaving a symbol of hate and causing a stir on campus.
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Old 4th September 2019, 01:20 PM   #60
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Originally Posted by Drewbot View Post
I think it's possible that some sort of math genius could have made a noose not thinking about the societal consequences of leaving it somewhere.

I think it's possible that some sort of math genius could have made a noose and consciously thought they could get away with leaving a symbol of hate and causing a stir on campus.
LoL Math genius? I graduated with a 3.75 as well, but I'm certainly not a networking genius.
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Old 4th September 2019, 01:29 PM   #61
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Originally Posted by plague311 View Post
LoL Math genius? I graduated with a 3.75 as well, but I'm certainly not a networking genius.
You think the grade is what I'm referring to. This is what i'm referring to:
Quote:
a sophomore with enough credits to graduate this year
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Old 4th September 2019, 01:42 PM   #62
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Originally Posted by Drewbot View Post
You think the grade is what I'm referring to. This is what i'm referring to:
That makes him a genius? My daughter will be doing pretty much the same thing since they offer several college level courses in high school now, especially mathematics. She's a junior in high school and is taking a bunch few college level classes at our local tech. She'll do the same next year during her senior year, and will graduate from college early. As much as I love my daughter, she's certainly not a genius. Just planned well during high school.

He may certainly well be intelligent, but a genius? I think you need to settle down a bit.
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Last edited by plague311; 4th September 2019 at 01:43 PM.
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Old 4th September 2019, 02:20 PM   #63
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Originally Posted by plague311 View Post
I didn't realize the ******* ISF charged him with the crimes, but totes sweet nonsensical crying. I give it a 7 out of 10. If you would have played into how this guy is the actual victim it would have been a 10 out of 10. Good luck next time.



So during your pre-high school days you would go to school and twist up some nooses for halloween?

Wait a second, people hang things by nooses as Halloween displays? What does a lynching have to do with Halloween? Maybe I'm missing that connection. I'm not saying it doesn't happen, it's just not something I've run into I guess. Must be a North Dakota thing where that isn't decor we use. Learn something new every day I guess.



Like I said, this is all news to me, but hey...I love to learn.

What does a noose have to do with lynching? Sure it can be a symbol for that but it isn't necessarily. It isn't to me or a lot of other people but context is everything. I love how people leap to racism even if there are other explanations.

I learned how to tie a noose as a kid. It was edgy maybe, kinda cool, nothing more and certainly nothing sinister. They weren't associated with lynchings where and when I grew up.

Without more information it's just confirmation bias. Maybe it was racism. We don't know but people are trying to tie the two together based on their own perceptions.
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Old 4th September 2019, 08:14 PM   #64
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Originally Posted by plague311 View Post
Pretty standard stuff. You never plead guilty at first, and it's extremely common, as mentioned before, to get overcharged and then plea down to something lesser. He'll end up with a few misdemeanors and a deferred sentence of imposition, unless they get the racial aspect to stick. If they do, it'll stay a felony. You can take that to the bank.
After reading the statutes, I very much doubt they can prove the intent necessary for the felony intimidation charge but a decent chance at the disorderly misdemeanor.
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Old 4th September 2019, 09:00 PM   #65
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Originally Posted by mgidm86 View Post
What does a noose have to do with lynching? Sure it can be a symbol for that but it isn't necessarily.
This is the "flag stands for heritage not hate" defense. "What does a noose have to do with lynching"? Seriously?

If you want to invoke "old west justice", your noose needs to be dangling from a gallows, or needs to be held by an archetypically-dressed executioner.

Divorced from that context, it's a symbol of hate and intimidation.
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Old 4th September 2019, 11:10 PM   #66
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Originally Posted by Checkmite View Post
This is the "flag stands for heritage not hate" defense. "What does a noose have to do with lynching"? Seriously?

If you want to invoke "old west justice", your noose needs to be dangling from a gallows, or needs to be held by an archetypically-dressed executioner.

Divorced from that context, it's a symbol of hate and intimidation.
I thought people were saying it is a symbol of racism in the US

And the flag was till a couple of years ago
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Old 4th September 2019, 11:52 PM   #67
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Originally Posted by mgidm86 View Post
What does a noose have to do with lynching? Sure it can be a symbol for that but it isn't necessarily. It isn't to me or a lot of other people but context is everything. I love how people leap to racism even if there are other explanations.

I learned how to tie a noose as a kid. It was edgy maybe, kinda cool, nothing more and certainly nothing sinister. They weren't associated with lynchings where and when I grew up.
After the horrifying attack on Jussie Smollet, I will always associate nooses with fake hate crimes (kidding).

I'm with you; nooses were kinda cool-looking, and at least back then they weren't associated with lynching among anybody I knew. I was thinking more of the Good, the Bad & the Ugly and Hang 'em High.

Hell, I'll admit that I thought the swastika looked kinda cool back then, although I suspect I drew it backwards as often as I did it right, because I wasn't so into it that I remembered which way it went. And at the same time, my favorite movie back then was the Great Escape, which featured the English and (1) American pilots making fools out of the goons (anti-German slur?).

ETA: Oh, and as I disclosed a few months ago, I have the apparently racist 1776 flag, which my liberal dad bought years ago because didn't like the now-PC 50 stars.
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Old 5th September 2019, 06:35 AM   #68
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Originally Posted by ArchSas View Post
So are slipknots and fisherman's knots, which are both easier to tie and more practical for a number of reasons. All the times I've taught and been taught knots, nooses have never come up. Like plague 311 is saying, it could be generational; AFAIK, I'm younger than a lot of people here, and that guy is younger than me

That general caveat being mentioned, as far as I was aware, leaving nooses out randomly is widely known to be a form of racist intimidation. Of course, my earliest introduction to the idea was from a high school in my district; it was in a rural enough location that suburban crawl was just starting to hit their area and minority students were fairly new. There were frequent spats of racist violence, and hanging up nooses (or holding them up while yelling at black students) was often a part of that. I'll grant that some people might not be aware of what it usually means, but again, as far as I know, it's a widely understood idea (enough that even a bunch of high schoolers in a poor, semi-rural PNW town knew about it 10-15 years ago), this incident is following others that happened recently on that campus, and leaving a noose hanging around in a public place is such an uncommon and unwarranted act that I don't think it's stretching to assume there's probably a racist motivation, whether it's intended as edgelord humor or not.
In this case, it was certainly racist. Since there was open racial intimidation going on the campus, Smith would have to be incredibly dense to try to pass this off as a prank. Smith was either one of the firestarters here or was fanning the fire.

Do you associate clowns with serial killers? There is a connection, and in some instances the association is clear. But sometimes one meaning is divorced from the other.
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Old 5th September 2019, 06:38 AM   #69
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Any movie set with a hanging scene, would become a crime scene.

There has to be intent for it to be a hate crime. Please investigate further.
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Old 5th September 2019, 06:43 AM   #70
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Originally Posted by plague311 View Post
Well, I'll be damned. I guess it was just a "before my generation" type of thing.
Maybe more geographical than generational. Remember the 2005 'Halloween decoration' of a woman hanging by the side of the road in Deleware that turned out to be a real hanging victim? On the East Coast, fairly normal decor around All Hallow's Eve.

https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/boughd-out/
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Old 5th September 2019, 06:55 AM   #71
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Originally Posted by The Norseman View Post
After reading the statutes, I very much doubt they can prove the intent necessary for the felony intimidation charge but a decent chance at the disorderly misdemeanor.
That's pretty much exactly where I'm at with it as well.

Originally Posted by mgidm86 View Post
*snipped for brevity*
Sure, Jan.

Originally Posted by cullennz View Post
And the flag was till a couple of years ago
The hell does this mean?

Originally Posted by Drewbot View Post
Any movie set with a hanging scene, would become a crime scene.

There has to be intent for it to be a hate crime. Please investigate further.
Well, it's not the most dense thing I've read today. Top 10 though.

No one said every single hanging scene or every single instance of a noose in a movie is racist. In this case, context matters. Something apparently the righties on this forum have absolutely no ability to grasp. I do see a trend though, the people who are fond of nooses also seem to watch the same movies. That's kind of neat.

If one, not on the right side, were to read the information and look at the context, it would be seen that there is actually a larger scope here. I know, it's tough to not look at the world through a toilet paper roll, and step back a bit so I'll help.

In this case, we have a series of racist events happening across the campus. Then we have a student that makes a noose, and leaves it in one of the resident hall's elevators. There was, relatively* recently, a noose left on a black teachers chair from a co-worker. So if people on the right want to throw those blinders on and continue to make excuses as to why oh why this just isn't racist, by gum. It's just...misunderstood, and making nooses are fun, and we're edgy, and it was probably a joke, and there's nothing to see here, and LEAVE BRITTANY ALONE!!!!, go right ahead. At least it's fun to read.

*I changed it. To some 2016 might not be very recently.
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Last edited by plague311; 5th September 2019 at 07:05 AM.
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Old 5th September 2019, 07:04 AM   #72
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It does appear that Smith is going with a Halloween theme for this event.

Quote:
At the hearing, Assistant State’s Attorney Kristin Alferink said Smith was in an Allen Hall elevator over the holiday weekend with a female friend. He found piece of rope and tied it into a noose, even though the friend told him not to, Alferink said.

After seeing reactions to the noose on social media, Alferink said, the friend told Smith she was going to report him to authorities, which she did.

Smith told police that he had “only spent about 30 seconds thinking about his actions” and after checking social media himself still had not thought it was serious enough to turn himself in, Alferink said.

According to Alferink, Smith told authorities that he had heard stories of “ghosts in campus buildings,” and the knot he chose “happened to be a racial hate symbol.”
Since I've learned a bunch here recently about how older generations thought that nooses were edgy and fun to make, can someone explain what they have to do with ghosts?
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Old 5th September 2019, 08:06 AM   #73
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Originally Posted by Checkmite View Post
This is the "flag stands for heritage not hate" defense. "What does a noose have to do with lynching"? Seriously?

If you want to invoke "old west justice", your noose needs to be dangling from a gallows, or needs to be held by an archetypically-dressed executioner.

Divorced from that context, it's a symbol of hate and intimidation.
No. When I think of old west hangings from westerns, I think of horse thieves hanging from a tree. Usually this did not involve judges, courts, or sheriffs. Old west vigilante justice.

This is the image referenced in the the Eddie Money song Gimme Some Water:
Quote:
Can't you see that long, white rope hanging from the hangman's tree
Take the restless horse; tie may hands, of course; tell my mother that I'm finally free
Let me die like a man - no one understands; let me pray that a poor man pray
Smack that horse in the ass; with my last dying gasp my brother could hear me say
Of course, there was also the gallows if the sheriff caught the outlaw and brought him back for trial. (Also in Robin Hood movies)

Here are some horror movie hangings:https://www.joblo.com/horror-movies/...ngings/item#10


Here are some nooses from cartoons: https://www.cartoonstock.com/directory/n/noose.asp

And here is an NPR article about hangings as Halloween decorations that starts with a guy not connecting hanging a skeleton with lynchings until his wife points out the connection:
Quote:
My point is not to defend the kid in question. I doubt he was putting Halloween decorations in an elevator in early September. (Wait...Allen Hall has an elevator usable by anyone now? That was my dorm in the 80s. We had to use the stairs. Lazy kids these days.) But the image of a noose and a hanging was pretty common when I grew up. It is unsurprising that it does not symbolize lynching of black people to many white people. Particularly those who grew up in mostly white communities where lynchings were a pretty abstract concept.

That said, westerns aren't as big a thing as they used to be. I'm not sure the context in which nooses/hangings are shown in movies and such are the same as when I grew up. There may be a stronger association with lynchings now.
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Old 5th September 2019, 08:07 AM   #74
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Originally Posted by plague311 View Post
Since I've learned a bunch here recently about how older generations thought that nooses were edgy and fun to make, can someone explain what they have to do with ghosts?
Suicide. The ghost of someone who died in the house. Hung himself in the attic. Or the ghost of an innocent man wrongly executed.
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Old 5th September 2019, 08:19 AM   #75
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Originally Posted by William Parcher View Post
I was never assuming transgender.

It doesn't really matter, but I'm not sure that we are seeing eyeliner rather than large false eyelashes (top only). It is possibly both, but I'm pretty sure I see false eyelashes.

Have a look: https://www.washingtonpost.com/resiz...BKIWK3L5WY.jpg
Seriously. Who is assuming transgender? Could be a drag queen, Marylin Manson fan, just colorful, who knows? Weird projection
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Old 5th September 2019, 09:03 AM   #76
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Originally Posted by Thermal View Post
Seriously. Who is assuming transgender? Could be a drag queen, Marylin Manson fan, just colorful, who knows? Weird projection
If curious to know if Smith commonly wears that eye makeup or if it was applied specifically because a mugshot was a certainty.
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Old 5th September 2019, 09:18 AM   #77
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Originally Posted by Drewbot View Post
Any movie set with a hanging scene, would become a crime scene.

There has to be intent for it to be a hate crime. Please investigate further.
And what has that to do with this case?

It's illegal to stab someone except in self defence - so that makes surgeons criminals? No? It's also utterly irrelevant to this case, so is just smoke.
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Old 5th September 2019, 09:26 AM   #78
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Good grief.

I'm in the camp of those who used to make nooses as a kid -and loved to hang a few 'round the yard at Halloween. It was a staple of western lore -the bad guys were hanged under shade trees, and the noose had to have at least 13 turns or it might break and he would go free.

If I saw a noose hanging in an elevator at college, I would've thought it was someone's guerilla art.

Sorry; but I just don't read "hate crime" into it. I'm not saying that wasn't this person's intention, but it's not what it speaks to me at all.

http://guerilla-art.wikidot.com/what-is-guerilla-art
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Old 5th September 2019, 09:50 AM   #79
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Originally Posted by DragonLady View Post
Good grief.

I'm in the camp of those who used to make nooses as a kid -and loved to hang a few 'round the yard at Halloween. It was a staple of western lore -the bad guys were hanged under shade trees, and the noose had to have at least 13 turns or it might break and he would go free.

If I saw a noose hanging in an elevator at college, I would've thought it was someone's guerilla art.

Sorry; but I just don't read "hate crime" into it. I'm not saying that wasn't this person's intention, but it's not what it speaks to me at all.

http://guerilla-art.wikidot.com/what-is-guerilla-art
This wasn't his yard, it's not halloween, he didn't watch westerns, and there were multiple racist events (including a lawsuit) that were well known around campus.

Again, looking at the world through a toilet paper roll.

ETA: Perhaps if there was a breakout of guerrilla art around the school you'd be closer to the mark.
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Old 5th September 2019, 10:46 AM   #80
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Projecting new values onto innocent events from the mid 1980's isn't fair.

Those of us who survived the idiocy of youth grew up and most realize what used to be a dumb bet is now a hate symbol in areas we didn't grow up in. And also on the internet where it isn't always clear not everyone grew up in Backwater, Mississippi.

Cultural exposure came later in life and most are smart enough to know not to say and do certain things now.
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