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Old 6th September 2019, 10:25 PM   #81
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Originally Posted by plague311 View Post
I didn't realize the ******* ISF charged him with the crimes, but totes sweet nonsensical crying. I give it a 7 out of 10. If you would have played into how this guy is the actual victim it would have been a 10 out of 10. Good luck next time.



So during your pre-high school days you would go to school and twist up some nooses for halloween?

Wait a second, people hang things by nooses as Halloween displays? What does a lynching have to do with Halloween? Maybe I'm missing that connection. I'm not saying it doesn't happen, it's just not something I've run into I guess. Must be a North Dakota thing where that isn't decor we use. Learn something new every day I guess.



Like I said, this is all news to me, but hey...I love to learn.
Lynching has nothing to do with Halloween, nooses were just a prop to add to the horror vibe. I was born and raised in southern California and never knew nooses had a racial connotation until like, 5 years ago.
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Old 7th September 2019, 10:36 AM   #82
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A bunch of white people claiming that something with a racist connotation isn’t actually racist because they personally are not aware of the racist connotation.

This thread is absolutely fantastic.
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Old 7th September 2019, 02:10 PM   #83
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Originally Posted by johnny karate View Post
A bunch of white people claiming that something with a racist connotation isn’t actually racist because they personally are not aware of the racist connotation.

This thread is absolutely fantastic.
Yes, I hadn't realised how much more insulated from the imagery of Klan lynchings much of the US was compared to my teenage years in Southeast England in the 1980s.


Although to be fair it probably was only after studying To Kill a Mocking Bird.
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Old 7th September 2019, 02:22 PM   #84
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Originally Posted by jimbob View Post
Yes, I hadn't realised how much more insulated from the imagery of Klan lynchings much of the US was compared to my teenage years in Southeast England in the 1980s.


Although to be fair it probably was only after studying To Kill a Mocking Bird.
I think maybe it wasn't the kind of thing you taught to pre-teens at school, and it wouldn't naturally be a conversation topic at home.


So the only exposure to nooses a lot of us would have had were horror flicks and Westerns
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Old 8th September 2019, 03:54 AM   #85
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Originally Posted by jimbob View Post
Yes, I hadn't realised how much more insulated from the imagery of Klan lynchings much of the US was compared to my teenage years in Southeast England in the 1980s.


Although to be fair it probably was only after studying To Kill a Mocking Bird.
I grew up in Southern England in the 70's/80's and studied To Kill a Mockingbird (indeed one of my proudest moments at school was explaining to my teacher why he was misinterpreting part of that particular book), but outside of the specific context of the American South (or I'd be happy to accept the US generally to avoid arguement) I wouldn't ascribe racial inference to a noose.

We have plenty of history of our own, and nooses have been used often enough for judicial and extra judicial killings and suicide, as with the word 'Lynch' (which came up in a discussion about an area, in Australia iirc, named after a person btw) the association that an American might see isn't universal and the assumption that everyone else should view the world through the filter of their history can be... Annoying.

Obviously in this case the location was America and there's a background of racial problems that supports the interpretation, but there's been a couple of cases recently where it seems some posters have trouble understanding that things may have different implications in the rest of the world.
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Old 8th September 2019, 04:04 AM   #86
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Originally Posted by Thermal View Post
I think maybe it wasn't the kind of thing you taught to pre-teens at school, and it wouldn't naturally be a conversation topic at home.


So the only exposure to nooses a lot of us would have had were horror flicks and Westerns
I grew up on the coast near Portsmouth, we were taught some of the Royal Navel punishments for infractions, and the treatment of Pirates, Wreckers and Smugglers at a retrospectively disturbingly young age. You didn't see many Nov 5ths without having a fair understanding of 'hung, drawn & quartered'. One of the popular songs during my childhood was about the decapitated ghost of Anne Boleyn. Between that and pure fiction like Children of the Stones, Cassie Palmer and the Ghost & of course Doctor Who the Britain of the 70's was pretty okay with terrifying children.
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Old 8th September 2019, 04:23 AM   #87
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That was just the fictional stuff. The public information films were designed to terrify you.

Even today this turns my blood cold

https://youtu.be/xZWD2sDRESk
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Old 8th September 2019, 04:30 AM   #88
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Originally Posted by johnny karate View Post
A bunch of white people claiming that something with a racist connotation isn’t actually racist because they personally are not aware of the racist connotation.

This thread is absolutely fantastic.
On the other hand a lot of us aren't living in what you perceive is a racist US.

Who have zero connection to slavery and zero connection to nooses apart from cowboy movies and olden days capital punishment.

With all due respect, the world does not revolve around US history
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Last edited by cullennz; 8th September 2019 at 04:31 AM.
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Old 8th September 2019, 04:34 AM   #89
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And even countries that were heavily involved in the use of slavery and the slave trade the experience can be very different. For instance in Britain we kept slavery offshore, out of direct sight so we never had generations of ex slaves living amongst "us".
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Old 8th September 2019, 04:41 AM   #90
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Originally Posted by Darat View Post
And even countries that were heavily involved in the use of slavery and the slave trade the experience can be very different. For instance in Britain we kept slavery offshore, out of direct sight so we never had generations of ex slaves living amongst "us".


Is that a kind of self-flagellation post
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Old 8th September 2019, 07:39 AM   #91
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Originally Posted by cullennz View Post
Is that a kind of self-flagellation post
No just an accurate reflection of history. See where Liverpool's wealth came from for example.
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Old 8th September 2019, 08:59 AM   #92
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Originally Posted by cullennz View Post
On the other hand a lot of us aren't living in what you perceive is a racist US.

Who have zero connection to slavery and zero connection to nooses apart from cowboy movies and olden days capital punishment.

With all due respect, the world does not revolve around US history
When I know nothing about a topic being discussed, I usually take the time to educate myself before jumping in to offer mockery and criticism.

But maybe that's just me.
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Old 8th September 2019, 10:02 AM   #93
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Originally Posted by cullennz View Post
Is that a kind of self-flagellation post
Think you many have hit post before you finished your post?
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Old 8th September 2019, 10:46 AM   #94
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Originally Posted by 8enotto View Post
Male with long hair here, there are other little clues this person is making a turn in life.

Not that it matters in a men's prison. The criminal justice system doesn't nicely ask which he will prefer.

That aside, things have changed since I was in school. We used to be able to carry pocket knives and tie nooses without having hateful ideas. This brave new world isn't quite right.
Yeah, those were the days. My dad used to take a 22 rifle to school hoping to get a rabbit on the way home to spice up dinner. Or so he said.

As a kid in scouting we learned rope knots and one of them was the classic hangman's noose. It was kinda weird but and, I think, a thing because of all the cowboy movies. There was never an association with blacks. But that was then.
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Old 8th September 2019, 10:49 AM   #95
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Originally Posted by Darat View Post
And even countries that were heavily involved in the use of slavery and the slave trade the experience can be very different. For instance in Britain we kept slavery offshore, out of direct sight so we never had generations of ex slaves living amongst "us".
Probably should be pointed out that had the States not revolted against British rule slavery would have ended decades before the Civil War.
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Old 8th September 2019, 11:02 AM   #96
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When I was in high school a few of us knew how to tie a hangman’s noose. We also never left them tied, or hung them in trees, or put them on faculty members’ desks. This was because we lived in the US and realized, even without numerous events as described above happening in temporal proximity, that such actions were directly threatening to African-Americans.

And we weren’t all that clever and worldly.
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Old 8th September 2019, 11:04 AM   #97
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Originally Posted by autumn1971 View Post
When I was in high school a few of us knew how to tie a hangman’s noose. We also never left them tied, or hung them in trees, or put them on faculty members’ desks. This was because we lived in the US and realized, even without numerous events as described above happening in temporal proximity, that such actions were directly threatening to African-Americans.

And we weren’t all that clever and worldly.
You grew up in the South, at a guess?
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Old 8th September 2019, 11:51 AM   #98
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Originally Posted by Thermal View Post
You grew up in the South, at a guess?
It was Stuart, Florida, which is not really the South in the “Dixie” sense.
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Old 8th September 2019, 01:19 PM   #99
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It seems a lot of people here besides myself do not auto-equate nooses with slavery and racism. People still want to argue that we are either lying or should change our minds.

Maybe one day certain people will realize that the US is a big country with people who do not necessarily agree with you, no matter how "correct" you think you are. You may be imagining racism where there is none, not just in this case but in many others.

This may turn out to be a racist act. I leave that possibility open along with others.
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Old 8th September 2019, 01:24 PM   #100
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Originally Posted by Darat View Post
Think you many have hit post before you finished your post?
Yeah

Sorry

Totally misread yours
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Old 8th September 2019, 01:50 PM   #101
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Originally Posted by cullennz View Post
On the other hand a lot of us aren't living in what you perceive is a racist US.

Who have zero connection to slavery and zero connection to nooses apart from cowboy movies and olden days capital punishment.

With all due respect, the world does not revolve around US history
If you realize that you lack a proper frame of reference by which to judge the cultural implications to Americans of an event that takes place in the US, wading into the discussion to dispute Americans' perceptions of those implications seems rather arbitrary.
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Old 8th September 2019, 01:52 PM   #102
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Originally Posted by cullennz View Post
On the other hand a lot of us aren't living in what you perceive is a racist US.

Who have zero connection to slavery and zero connection to nooses apart from cowboy movies and olden days capital punishment.

With all due respect, the world does not revolve around US history
However, when discussing a US event, US history provides context.
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Old 8th September 2019, 01:53 PM   #103
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Originally Posted by mgidm86 View Post
This may turn out to be a racist act. I leave that possibility open along with others.
But you don't; in fact you refuse to even entertain the possibility, even going as far as to resort to bad-faith argument like "what does a noose have to do with lynching?"
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Old 8th September 2019, 01:57 PM   #104
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I saw something in part of an article posted above, where it was stated that he was told not to hang up the noose, but did it anyway.

At that point, you can't claim simple ignorance. He's got a friend who tells him, no, that's cool, and he does it any way. To be cool and edgy, I'm sure.
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Old 8th September 2019, 02:08 PM   #105
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Originally Posted by jimbob View Post
No just an accurate reflection of history. See where Liverpool's wealth came from for example.
There is a slavery museum in Liverpool.
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Old 8th September 2019, 02:13 PM   #106
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Originally Posted by pgwenthold View Post
I saw something in part of an article posted above, where it was stated that he was told not to hang up the noose, but did it anyway.

At that point, you can't claim simple ignorance. He's got a friend who tells him, no, that's cool, and he does it any way. To be cool and edgy, I'm sure.
But is it a crime? A *felony*? He's a teenager, for crying out loud. It probably is a violation of campus code of conduct, but in general people have the right to walk around with Nazi armbands. Sure, that's on their clothes, not public property, but the intent is the same and even more people get exposed to it. He tied a bit of string into a knot. I think local officials' responses are way out of proportion.
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Old 8th September 2019, 03:39 PM   #107
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Originally Posted by mgidm86 View Post
It seems a lot of people here besides myself do not auto-equate nooses with slavery and racism. People still want to argue that we are either lying or should change our minds.
Actually, what people are arguing is that your ignorance on a subject doesn’t remove it from existence.
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Old 8th September 2019, 10:11 PM   #108
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I'm with the guy from Stuart. I did grow up in the deep south, but I'm a child of the 50s. A hangman's noose could represent:

> racial lynching
> vigilante justice, wild west style (ain't nothin' lower than a horse thief!)
> the town gallows, usually also associated with Hollywood's version of the wild west

Still, knowing that it could readily be construed as either the first or second application, it would never have occurred to me to make up a noose and leave it somewhere as a statement. (I've made nooses, just because it was a design that I was curious if I could make.)
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Old 8th September 2019, 10:15 PM   #109
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Originally Posted by johnny karate View Post
Actually, what people are arguing is that your ignorance on a subject doesn’t remove it from existence.
Yeah, that's kinda like like defending yourself with, "Huh? What's the big deal? I like watermelon. Most people do. I just figured I'd ask the black guy on the opposing team if he would like some. People are too sensitive!"
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Old 8th September 2019, 11:21 PM   #110
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Originally Posted by Foolmewunz View Post
Yeah, that's kinda like like defending yourself with, "Huh? What's the big deal? I like watermelon. Most people do. I just figured I'd ask the black guy on the opposing team if he would like some. People are too sensitive!"
I didn't even know that one.

I knew chicken had connotations apparently, but watermelon too?
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Old 9th September 2019, 03:24 AM   #111
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Originally Posted by cullennz View Post
I didn't even know that one.

I knew chicken had connotations apparently, but watermelon too?
Yet another reason you shouldn't wade into discussions that pertain to US culture.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Watermelon_stereotype
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Old 9th September 2019, 03:31 AM   #112
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Originally Posted by Foolmewunz View Post
Yet another reason you shouldn't wade into discussions that pertain to US culture.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Watermelon_stereotype
Well no not really

If you don't, you don't learn. Ie the watermelon thing.

The only common watermelon reference I had heard of was environmental political parties being accused of being closet lefty communist stupidity

Green on the outside red inside.

But if you would prefer me not to comment on certain threads, feel free to write up a list and submit it to the mods.

The can oversee my posts, cross reference your spreadsheet and delete any posts you said I shouldn't post on.

Hey. I reckon they would be open to it given your gravitas
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Old 9th September 2019, 03:38 AM   #113
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For instance, Google this and see how much comes up

watermelon green on the outside red on the inside
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I generally oppose gun control, but I support the ban on assault weapons and I support a slightly longer waiting period to purchase a gun. With today’s Internet technology we should be able to tell within 72-hours if a potential gun owner has a record.

Source: The America We Deserve, by Donald Trump, p.102 , Jul 2, 2000
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Old 9th September 2019, 04:34 AM   #114
Puppycow
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The fact that his female friend warned him not to do it and he did it anyway kinda makes the ignorance defense harder to make in my opinion. Clearly she knew why this isn't acceptable in this day and age. He should have listened to her.
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Old 9th September 2019, 02:27 PM   #115
jimbob
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Originally Posted by cullennz View Post
Well no not really

If you don't, you don't learn. Ie the watermelon thing.

The only common watermelon reference I had heard of was environmental political parties being accused of being closet lefty communist stupidity

Green on the outside red inside.

But if you would prefer me not to comment on certain threads, feel free to write up a list and submit it to the mods.

The can oversee my posts, cross reference your spreadsheet and delete any posts you said I shouldn't post on.

Hey. I reckon they would be open to it given your gravitas
It's not wanting you to avoid commenting - it's *wading in* or pontificating from a position of ignorance.

Watermelons are, unfortunately very used in racist insults, including as used by my "beloved" Prime Minister. Google Obama watermelon for some tasteless cartoons if you want be convinced.
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OECD healthcare spending
Expenditure on healthcare
http://www.oecd.org/els/health-systems/health-data.htm
link is 2015 data (2013 Data below):
UK 8.5% of GDP of which 83.3% is public expenditure - 7.1% of GDP is public spending
US 16.4% of GDP of which 48.2% is public expenditure - 7.9% of GDP is public spending
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Old 9th September 2019, 02:40 PM   #116
ahhell
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Originally Posted by Foolmewunz View Post
I'm with the guy from Stuart. I did grow up in the deep south, but I'm a child of the 50s. A hangman's noose could represent:

> racial lynching
> vigilante justice, wild west style (ain't nothin' lower than a horse thief!)
> the town gallows, usually also associated with Hollywood's version of the wild west

Still, knowing that it could readily be construed as either the first or second application, it would never have occurred to me to make up a noose and leave it somewhere as a statement. (I've made nooses, just because it was a design that I was curious if I could make.)
As a genXer from Northern CA, prior to adulthood, I knew nooses only from westerns. The association with lynching was something I learned much later.

Regardless of that association, a noose left somewhere as a statement can pretty much only be construed as a thread, racist or otherwise. I don't really care if it was racist it was a threat.

Aside from that, I've also tied many nooses in my youth due to a sort of morbid fascination similar to foolme's experience.
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