ISF Logo   IS Forum
Forum Index Register Members List Events Mark Forums Read Help

Go Back   International Skeptics Forum » General Topics » Social Issues & Current Events
 


Welcome to the International Skeptics Forum, where we discuss skepticism, critical thinking, the paranormal and science in a friendly but lively way. You are currently viewing the forum as a guest, which means you are missing out on discussing matters that are of interest to you. Please consider registering so you can gain full use of the forum features and interact with other Members. Registration is simple, fast and free! Click here to register today.
Reply
Old 11th September 2019, 10:27 AM   #41
Silly Green Monkey
Cowardly Lurking in the Shadows of Greatness
 
Silly Green Monkey's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Arizona
Posts: 4,733
Exactly like chewing nicotine gum. Same addiction, same action, different word different form.
__________________
Normal is just a stereotype.
Silly Green Monkey is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 11th September 2019, 12:19 PM   #42
wasapi
Philosopher
 
wasapi's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 8,189
Originally Posted by erlando View Post
If you still vape you didn't quit. You just replaced a habit with known detrimental health effects with a habit where the health consequences are yet unknown.

It even sounds like you might vape more than you smoked now you don't have to go outside.

"It seems to be the kids vaping weird things" is only a bad excuse.

I'm not disagreeing with you. I quit cigarettes, but am still a smoker, even if it is only 6% nicotine. And yes, I probably do smoke more since I can smoke inside.

Yes, I am hooked. At 70, I have no plan to quit. I have been lucky in that I have never had respiratory problems. As I said, I consider it my only vice, and am healthy enough to still have plenty of energy and exercise daily.
__________________
Julia
wasapi is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 11th September 2019, 12:22 PM   #43
dudalb
Penultimate Amazing
 
dudalb's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Sacramento
Posts: 44,955
I thought vaping was just another lie from the tobacco companies, and I seem to have been right.
__________________
Pacifism is a shifty doctrine under which a man accepts the benefits of the social group without being willing to pay - and claims a halo for his dishonesty.

Robert Heinlein.
dudalb is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 11th September 2019, 12:23 PM   #44
Jim_MDP
Philosopher
 
Jim_MDP's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: N.Cal/S.Or
Posts: 6,958
I think I've established I've got my nicotine... and I'm not afraid to use it.

But some of you should look up what the major tobacc labs began doing to their nic as far back as the Twenties. The chemical soup they produced is plenty nasty, and pretty damned addictive. Actual nicotine on its' own and in moderation... not so much. But I'm neither a user nor a fan of Juul, its' product or its' underage customer base (and it's not the fruit flavors, we adults want those in our juice too). I'm not sure nic salts aren't a move back to the past, big tobacc sure snapped Juul up in a hurry. And keep in mind... nic level is user adjustable... those (IMO) ludicrous cloud chasers are blowing through six, eight times a normal amount of juice... and using zero, or nearly, amounts of nic in it.

Speaking of uncool...
Vaping is not and never will be James Dean level cool. Hell... it'll never be Jimmy Dean level.
I'll just have to suffer with the ignominy, and enjoy my nic delivery system.

GOP picnic stlll on the table. Custom refreshments... I've got a couple hundred flavors.
__________________
----------------------
Anything goes in the Goblin hut... anything.

"Suggesting spurious explanations isn't relevant to my work." -- WTC Dust.
"Both cannot be simultaneously true, and so one may conclude neither is true, and if neither is true, then Apollo is fraudulent." -- Patrick1000.
Jim_MDP is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 11th September 2019, 12:31 PM   #45
Jim_MDP
Philosopher
 
Jim_MDP's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: N.Cal/S.Or
Posts: 6,958
Originally Posted by dudalb View Post
I thought vaping was just another lie from the tobacco companies, and I seem to have been right.
You're acting disingenuous, delusional or just ignorant.
Choose.

E-cigs have put a (small but growing) crimp in the shrinking industrialized world's "analog" cigarette market space, and they'd like to take it over and/or control or regulate it. I think until five years ago... they'd have liked to just kill it outright.
But they damn sure did not create it.

(*my vote's on ignorant... I'm feeling generous)
__________________
----------------------
Anything goes in the Goblin hut... anything.

"Suggesting spurious explanations isn't relevant to my work." -- WTC Dust.
"Both cannot be simultaneously true, and so one may conclude neither is true, and if neither is true, then Apollo is fraudulent." -- Patrick1000.

Last edited by Jim_MDP; 11th September 2019 at 12:32 PM.
Jim_MDP is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 11th September 2019, 12:59 PM   #46
p0lka
Graduate Poster
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 1,594
I found this surprising..

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-49667688

Quote:
There have been six deaths and 450 reported cases of lung illness tied to vaping across 33 states.

Many of the 450 reported cases are young people, with an average age of 19.
also
Quote:
The cause of the vaping illness has not yet been pinpointed by health officials.

THC, the psychoactive chemical in cannabis, was present in some, but not all of the devices used by those who fell ill, say authorities.

The FDA has said many of the products were found to contain significant amounts of vitamin E acetate, an oil used to thicken the vaping liquid.

Several patients have been found with lipoid pneumonia, which occurs when someone inhales fats or oils.
interesting.
p0lka is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 11th September 2019, 03:13 PM   #47
Jim_MDP
Philosopher
 
Jim_MDP's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: N.Cal/S.Or
Posts: 6,958
Nice to see you've caught up with the thread.
__________________
----------------------
Anything goes in the Goblin hut... anything.

"Suggesting spurious explanations isn't relevant to my work." -- WTC Dust.
"Both cannot be simultaneously true, and so one may conclude neither is true, and if neither is true, then Apollo is fraudulent." -- Patrick1000.
Jim_MDP is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 12th September 2019, 12:18 AM   #48
cullennz
Embarrasingly illiterate
 
cullennz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 16,190
Breathing anything in that isn't pure fresh air is never going to be ideal.

Vapping is never going to be harmless, especially with home made mixes containing THC, like most of the majority of the people who got sick, but she is still a shedload less harmful than cigarettes.

And a shedload less irritating and harmful to non-smoking passive passers by.
__________________
I generally oppose gun control, but I support the ban on assault weapons and I support a slightly longer waiting period to purchase a gun. With today’s Internet technology we should be able to tell within 72-hours if a potential gun owner has a record.

Source: The America We Deserve, by Donald Trump, p.102 , Jul 2, 2000

Last edited by cullennz; 12th September 2019 at 12:19 AM.
cullennz is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 12th September 2019, 05:32 AM   #49
wasapi
Philosopher
 
wasapi's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 8,189
The illnesses and respiratory problems; Does anyone know if they are all related to flavored vaping liquid?
__________________
Julia
wasapi is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 12th September 2019, 05:46 AM   #50
cullennz
Embarrasingly illiterate
 
cullennz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 16,190
Originally Posted by wasapi View Post
The illnesses and respiratory problems; Does anyone know if they are all related to flavored vaping liquid?
From what I have read the one deadly one and most of the small amount of lung ones were related to home mix with THC and the "lolly"/"sweets"/"soda poppy" (pick your countries words for sweets) flavours are worse.

Which again is no dying in agony from lung cancer.
__________________
I generally oppose gun control, but I support the ban on assault weapons and I support a slightly longer waiting period to purchase a gun. With today’s Internet technology we should be able to tell within 72-hours if a potential gun owner has a record.

Source: The America We Deserve, by Donald Trump, p.102 , Jul 2, 2000
cullennz is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 12th September 2019, 06:02 AM   #51
TragicMonkey
Poisoned Waffles
 
TragicMonkey's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Monkey
Posts: 50,748
Tobacco use causes more cancers than just lung cancer, fyi. A lot of smokers assume they're in the clear because their lungs are fine, only to come down with bladder cancer instead.
__________________
You added nothing to that conversation, Barbara.
TragicMonkey is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 12th September 2019, 06:21 AM   #52
The Don
Penultimate Amazing
 
The Don's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Sir Fynwy
Posts: 26,907
Originally Posted by TragicMonkey View Post
Tobacco use causes more cancers than just lung cancer, fyi. A lot of smokers assume they're in the clear because their lungs are fine, only to come down with bladder cancer instead.
Not to mention the non-cancerous health risks like heart disease and respiratory issues.
The Don is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 12th September 2019, 06:23 AM   #53
Belz...
Fiend God
 
Belz...'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: In the details
Posts: 84,504
Originally Posted by Silly Green Monkey View Post
Exactly like chewing nicotine gum. Same addiction, same action, different word different form.
Almost. Not same action, since chewing and inhaling are not the same thing.
__________________
Master of the Shining Darkness

"My views are nonsense. So what?" - BobTheCoward



Last edited by Belz...; 12th September 2019 at 06:41 AM.
Belz... is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 12th September 2019, 06:26 AM   #54
elgarak
Illuminator
 
elgarak's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Posts: 4,397
Originally Posted by TragicMonkey View Post
Tobacco use causes more cancers than just lung cancer, fyi. A lot of smokers assume they're in the clear because their lungs are fine, only to come down with bladder cancer instead.
Modern tobacco is radioactive, too. Tobacco grown after the above-ground nuke explosions has incorporated Plutonium from the fall-outs. It's an alpha-emitter. Now, if you have ever taken a radiation safety course, one of the BIG things they tell you is to keep alpha-emitters out of your body, PERIOD. (The dose of smoking one cigarette is somewhere in the range of a thorax x-ray, though the latter can cover a MUCH wider range of doses.)

Tobacco is one of those plants that is used to clean out contaminants from soil because it incorporates and concentrates the nasties... Now you 'just' have to get rid of the tobacco with the concentrated nasties. Doesn't make much sense to burn the stuff and release the nasties into the environment again, in particular if you are the first in line to get the stuff.
elgarak is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 12th September 2019, 06:35 AM   #55
TragicMonkey
Poisoned Waffles
 
TragicMonkey's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Monkey
Posts: 50,748
Originally Posted by elgarak View Post
Modern tobacco is radioactive, too. Tobacco grown after the above-ground nuke explosions has incorporated Plutonium from the fall-outs. It's an alpha-emitter. Now, if you have ever taken a radiation safety course, one of the BIG things they tell you is to keep alpha-emitters out of your body, PERIOD. (The dose of smoking one cigarette is somewhere in the range of a thorax x-ray, though the latter can cover a MUCH wider range of doses.)

Tobacco is one of those plants that is used to clean out contaminants from soil because it incorporates and concentrates the nasties... Now you 'just' have to get rid of the tobacco with the concentrated nasties. Doesn't make much sense to burn the stuff and release the nasties into the environment again, in particular if you are the first in line to get the stuff.
Well, radiation gets into everything. I understand they can see the effects of the 1940s nuclear tests in the teeth of people alive at that time.
__________________
You added nothing to that conversation, Barbara.
TragicMonkey is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 12th September 2019, 07:23 AM   #56
GlennB
Loggerheaded, earth-vexing fustilarian
 
GlennB's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Arcadia, Greece
Posts: 25,221
Originally Posted by elgarak View Post
Modern tobacco is radioactive, too. Tobacco grown after the above-ground nuke explosions has incorporated Plutonium from the fall-outs. It's an alpha-emitter. Now, if you have ever taken a radiation safety course, one of the BIG things they tell you is to keep alpha-emitters out of your body, PERIOD. (The dose of smoking one cigarette is somewhere in the range of a thorax x-ray, though the latter can cover a MUCH wider range of doses.)
A quick google says it's polonium:

"Radioactive materials, like polonium-210 and lead-210 are found naturally in the soil and air. They are also found in the high-phosphate fertilizers that farmers use on their crops. Polonium-210 and lead-210 get into and onto tobacco leaves and remain there even after the tobacco has been processed."

In any case, doesn't the same apply to any vegetable material entering the body? Lungs clear themselves out constantly, as do the bowels (though not constantly in the latter case )
__________________
"Even a broken clock is right twice a day. 9/11 truth is a clock with no hands." - Beachnut
GlennB is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 12th September 2019, 10:08 AM   #57
angrysoba
Philosophile
 
angrysoba's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Osaka, Japan
Posts: 25,470
Originally Posted by Doghouse Reilly View Post
Also, I'm certain my experience wasn't some kind of placebo affect, because I expected nothing to happen, being as it was supposed to just be a harmless vapor. I was very surprised at the discomfort that resulted. Felt worse than anything I'd experienced from cigarettes.
I think the term “nocebo” would be more accurate here.
__________________
"The thief and the murderer follow nature just as much as the philanthropist. Cosmic evolution may teach us how the good and the evil tendencies of man may have come about; but, in itself, it is incompetent to furnish any better reason why what we call good is preferable to what we call evil than we had before."

"Evolution and Ethics" T.H. Huxley (1893)
angrysoba is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 12th September 2019, 10:11 AM   #58
GlennB
Loggerheaded, earth-vexing fustilarian
 
GlennB's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Arcadia, Greece
Posts: 25,221
Originally Posted by Doghouse Reilly View Post
There's no way that vaping isn't bad for the lungs. I smoked a pack a day of unfiltered cigarettes for 5 years from the age of 19-24, quit in 2001 and didn't touch them for 18 years. Last year a friend was vaping and I decided to try it because it was supposed to be so much better than smoking. I only took a few puffs, but my lungs hurt for 2 days afterwards and my aerobic capacity was absolutely impaired (I'm a runner). Based on my experience, I find it hard to believe that vaping isn't doing serious damage to the respiratory system.
I had a similar experience while aiming to cut down on cigs. I was just doing it wrong, and inhaling a lot of hot vapour straight into my lungs. It's pretty easy to learn the right technique.
__________________
"Even a broken clock is right twice a day. 9/11 truth is a clock with no hands." - Beachnut
GlennB is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 12th September 2019, 10:39 AM   #59
wasapi
Philosopher
 
wasapi's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 8,189
Originally Posted by GlennB View Post
I had a similar experience while aiming to cut down on cigs. I was just doing it wrong, and inhaling a lot of hot vapour straight into my lungs. It's pretty easy to learn the right technique.
It does come down to learning the right technique. It took awhile to get the point that I could adjust the air flow for stronger or weaker, and making sure you have a fresh coil filter. In the beginning, it isn't as easy as just picking up a cigarette and lighting it, but still much better.
__________________
Julia
wasapi is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 12th September 2019, 02:31 PM   #60
Doghouse Reilly
Adrift on an uncharted sea
 
Doghouse Reilly's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Posts: 2,994
Originally Posted by psionl0 View Post
Are you arguing that cigarettes are better than vaping?
No, I'm saying that vaping gave me more physical discomfort.
Doghouse Reilly is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 12th September 2019, 02:39 PM   #61
Doghouse Reilly
Adrift on an uncharted sea
 
Doghouse Reilly's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Posts: 2,994
Originally Posted by Hubert Cumberdale View Post
Yes. Except it literally is not smoking.

Also - a lot of people saying its not really quitting and generally hating on vaping.

It is quitting. If you no longer smoke then you have quit smoking. You might not have broken your nicotine addiction, but the same goes for any other form of Nicotine Replacement Therapy, and strangely enough, you don't get people insisting that people on patches/gum/lozenges and so on "haven't really quit"

Is vaping healthy? Of course not. But even in the worst case scenario, whatever the unknown impact of vaping might turn out to be is certain to be FAAAAAR less than the impact of smoking. Smoking kills almost 1 person an hour in the UK alone.

Globally, smoking kills around 8 million people a year.

Vaping has been around for well over a decade without (so far as I'm aware) a single attributable death.

And you can stick that in your pipe and smoke it!

It seems to me to be a strange form of reflexive puritanism that people see other people doing something that they don't do, and are determined to jump all over it and make they stop doing the thing. Lord forbid anyone should enjoy anything.
Okay, and if smoking had been around for only just over decade how many people would it have killed?
Doghouse Reilly is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 12th September 2019, 03:21 PM   #62
dudalb
Penultimate Amazing
 
dudalb's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Sacramento
Posts: 44,955
Originally Posted by Belz... View Post
Different word, different form, same addiction, same action.
I love this guy "no one had died from vapint yet " argument.
Let's wait for a few years, and I would not be surprised if Vapers start getting a lot of the diseases that smokers get.
I am always amused by the way smokers try to defend their habit. Just a sign of how addicting nicotine really is.
And also an excellent example of denial of reality.
__________________
Pacifism is a shifty doctrine under which a man accepts the benefits of the social group without being willing to pay - and claims a halo for his dishonesty.

Robert Heinlein.
dudalb is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 12th September 2019, 03:56 PM   #63
Skeptic Ginger
Nasty Woman
 
Skeptic Ginger's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 75,522
Originally Posted by Babbylonian View Post
It's vitamin E acetate and it's suspected to be the problem, though I don't think the scientists have enough data to be certain.
Kind of silly to think this is going to turn out to be one chemical as opposed to multiple chemicals being the problem. They can't at this point find a particular vaping product these hospitalized kids have in common.

It's one thing to use vaping to quit smoking. It's another for the big tobacco companies to use vaping to addict another generation of kids to nicotine.


France 24 just had an in depth debate on vaping. Well worth watching if you can.

https://www.france24.com/en/tv-shows/debate

Generation vape: how dangerous are e-cigarettes?
Quote:
Vanessa DELARUE, Treasurer of SO VAPE and creator of vaping stores network “La vaporeuse”
David MICHAELS, Epidemiologist and Professor, Milken Institute School of Public Health at GWU
Alex CARLL, Assistant Professor, School of Medicine at Louisville University
Ciaran OSBORNE, Director of Policy, Action on Smoking and Health (ASH)
__________________
That new avatar is cuteness overload.
Restore checks and balances no matter your party affiliation.

Last edited by Skeptic Ginger; 12th September 2019 at 04:00 PM.
Skeptic Ginger is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 12th September 2019, 04:03 PM   #64
cullennz
Embarrasingly illiterate
 
cullennz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 16,190
Originally Posted by dudalb View Post
I love this guy "no one had died from vapint yet " argument.
Let's wait for a few years, and I would not be surprised if Vapers start getting a lot of the diseases that smokers get.
I am always amused by the way smokers try to defend their habit. Just a sign of how addicting nicotine really is.
And also an excellent example of denial of reality.
Even if a few do, which I doubt, if it is less then who cares?

Less people died

Or do you just want to ban smoking?
__________________
I generally oppose gun control, but I support the ban on assault weapons and I support a slightly longer waiting period to purchase a gun. With today’s Internet technology we should be able to tell within 72-hours if a potential gun owner has a record.

Source: The America We Deserve, by Donald Trump, p.102 , Jul 2, 2000
cullennz is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 12th September 2019, 04:11 PM   #65
wasapi
Philosopher
 
wasapi's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 8,189
Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
Kind of silly to think this is going to turn out to be one chemical as opposed to multiple chemicals being the problem. They can't at this point find a particular vaping product these hospitalized kids have in common.

It's one thing to use vaping to quit smoking. It's another for the big tobacco companies to use vaping to addict another generation of kids to nicotine.


France 24 just had an in depth debate on vaping. Well worth watching if you can.

https://www.france24.com/en/tv-shows/debate

Generation vape: how dangerous are e-cigarettes?
Thanks, I will use the links. Though I have tried to keep up with vaping-info since I first started using the method, I am trying to become more informed.
__________________
Julia
wasapi is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 12th September 2019, 04:12 PM   #66
Skeptic Ginger
Nasty Woman
 
Skeptic Ginger's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 75,522
Originally Posted by wasapi View Post
The illnesses and respiratory problems; Does anyone know if they are all related to flavored vaping liquid?
The tobacco companies heavily invested in vaping products would have you believe so.

Take proclamations that it's only the flavored stuff with a grain of salt. Tobacco companies were the first Merchants of Doubt, providing supposed scientific studies that showed second hand smoke was harmless.
__________________
That new avatar is cuteness overload.
Restore checks and balances no matter your party affiliation.
Skeptic Ginger is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 12th September 2019, 04:37 PM   #67
Graham2001
Graduate Poster
 
Graham2001's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 1,294
Originally Posted by crescent View Post
Others think of vaping as harmless and end up addicted to nicotine, people who would have not otherwise used nicotine, who would have not taken up smoking in this day and age. This may be a new way to draw in nicotine sales now that younger generations smoke less than older generations.

Anecdotally I've heard stories that what's left of the pro-Smoking community has hopes some vapers will graduate to cigarettes, but I'd rate that chance as slim-to-none.


As for impurities, I've found a video discussing just what is in vaping liquid and what the ingredients do.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4SX9yYVscEo
__________________
"I need hard facts! Bring in the dowsers!"
'America Unearthed' Season 1, Episode 13: Hunt for the Holy Grail

Everybody gets it wrong sometimes...
Graham2001 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 12th September 2019, 04:53 PM   #68
Doghouse Reilly
Adrift on an uncharted sea
 
Doghouse Reilly's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Posts: 2,994
Originally Posted by dudalb View Post
I love this guy "no one had died from vapint yet " argument.
Let's wait for a few years, and I would not be surprised if Vapers start getting a lot of the diseases that smokers get.
I am always amused by the way smokers try to defend their habit. Just a sign of how addicting nicotine really is.
And also an excellent example of denial of reality.
Well said.
Doghouse Reilly is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 12th September 2019, 05:02 PM   #69
Senex
Philosopher
 
Senex's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: School for Rumpology, CT
Posts: 5,820
Make the decision for yourself. This is government overreach.
Senex is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 12th September 2019, 05:06 PM   #70
mgidm86
Philosopher
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 5,612
I learned at work today that people are legally using things to "cut" vaping liquid, and I'm talking about stores that sell it not street level stuff. I forget what it's called - oh wait "Honeycut" like the guy from M.A.S.H.

You can google it, I've never looked it up and know nothing about it. Just heard about it today. I don't vape but the people I work with know all about this stuff. It's probably only used with weed not nicotine.

Like I said before, it is heavily regulated here in San Jose. You can't just put whatever you'd like into it because it won't pass testing. The place I work for is making it's own vape cartridges, but they are just buying the extract from a place and filling the cartridges themselves. They're not adding anything to it.

If anyone wants some real answers I can ask the owner for some information. Just not sure what to ask so let me know. I'm more of the computer guy and I used to work there as a grower. Growing is hard on the back long term so I'm out.

I think there are more bad ingredients in cigarette paper alone to justify switching to nicotine vaping. Just make sure it's legit vape liquid. How to determine that - I don't know. And yes people are most likely ingesting more nicotine than if they smoked cigs.

Anecdotally, I know a young guy who says a few of his friends have screwed up their lungs doing dabs and vaping weed extracts too much, but I don't know if that's due to overuse or using products that aren't made correctly or legally.

The poorly made stuff is VERY bad for your lungs though. Be careful. If it isn't super smooth tasting or makes you lungs "tingle" don't use it.

I would not trust anyone who makes the stuff on the black market, I know way too much about it. Don't buy it unless you make it yourself or get it from a reputable place. Most of these guys do not know what they are doing, or they don't care.
__________________
Franklin understands certain kickbacks you obtain unfairly are legal liabilities; however, a risky deed's almost never detrimental despite extra external pressures.
mgidm86 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 12th September 2019, 05:32 PM   #71
Skeptic Ginger
Nasty Woman
 
Skeptic Ginger's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 75,522
Originally Posted by Senex View Post
Make the decision for yourself. This is government overreach.
Is it OK for the vape sellers to lie and claim the products are safe?

Is it OK they be unregulated?

What age is it OK to sell these products to?

Who pays the health costs when dozens of young people end up in ICU from lung damage?
__________________
That new avatar is cuteness overload.
Restore checks and balances no matter your party affiliation.
Skeptic Ginger is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 12th September 2019, 05:38 PM   #72
Senex
Philosopher
 
Senex's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: School for Rumpology, CT
Posts: 5,820
Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
Is it OK for the vape sellers to lie and claim the products are safe?

Is it OK they be unregulated?

What age is it OK to sell these products to?

Who pays the health costs when dozens of young people end up in ICU from lung damage?
I guess you can agree with at least one Trump overstep.
Senex is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 12th September 2019, 05:57 PM   #73
Skeptic Ginger
Nasty Woman
 
Skeptic Ginger's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 75,522
Originally Posted by Senex View Post
I guess you can agree with at least one Trump overstep.
You lost me.

Oh wait, you ignored my questions.
__________________
That new avatar is cuteness overload.
Restore checks and balances no matter your party affiliation.

Last edited by Skeptic Ginger; 12th September 2019 at 05:58 PM.
Skeptic Ginger is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 12th September 2019, 06:05 PM   #74
Senex
Philosopher
 
Senex's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: School for Rumpology, CT
Posts: 5,820
Has another thoughtful unilateral move by Trump slipped by you?

https://www.politico.com/story/2019/...health-1728005
Senex is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 12th September 2019, 06:21 PM   #75
Skeptic Ginger
Nasty Woman
 
Skeptic Ginger's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 75,522
Originally Posted by Senex View Post
Has another thoughtful unilateral move by Trump slipped by you?

https://www.politico.com/story/2019/...health-1728005
No, did you miss my edit. It took me a minute, give aging brains a little slack.

You ignored all my questions and tossed in a squirrel for everyone to chase.

How about addressing my questions:

Is it OK for the vape sellers to lie and claim the products are safe?

Is it OK they be unregulated?

What age is it OK to sell these products to?

Who pays the health costs when dozens of young people end up in ICU from lung damage?
__________________
That new avatar is cuteness overload.
Restore checks and balances no matter your party affiliation.
Skeptic Ginger is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 12th September 2019, 06:30 PM   #76
Elagabalus
Illuminator
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 4,745
Originally Posted by mgidm86 View Post
...

Anecdotally, I know a young guy who says a few of his friends have screwed up their lungs doing dabs and vaping weed extracts too much, but I don't know if that's due to overuse or using products that aren't made correctly or legally.

The poorly made stuff is VERY bad for your lungs though. Be careful. If it isn't super smooth tasting or makes you lungs "tingle" don't use it.

I would not trust anyone who makes the stuff on the black market, I know way too much about it. Don't buy it unless you make it yourself or get it from a reputable place. Most of these guys do not know what they are doing, or they don't care.

Why not pot brownies or pot chili?
Elagabalus is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 12th September 2019, 06:33 PM   #77
Senex
Philosopher
 
Senex's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: School for Rumpology, CT
Posts: 5,820
Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
No, did you miss my edit. It took me a minute, give aging brains a little slack.

You ignored all my questions and tossed in a squirrel for everyone to chase.

How about addressing my questions:

Is it OK for the vape sellers to lie and claim the products are safe?

Is it OK they be unregulated?

What age is it OK to sell these products to?

Who pays the health costs when dozens of young people end up in ICU from lung damage?
Is it OK to have a beer?

I prefer to make my own decisions regarding these issues and not the government/Donald-Melania Trump. Let's have the facts made public and let adults choose their behavior.
Senex is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 12th September 2019, 06:38 PM   #78
Elagabalus
Illuminator
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 4,745
Originally Posted by Hubert Cumberdale View Post
...It seems to me to be a strange form of reflexive puritanism that people see other people doing something that they don't do, and are determined to jump all over it and make they stop doing the thing. Lord forbid anyone should enjoy anything.

Welcome to the ISF!
Elagabalus is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 12th September 2019, 07:15 PM   #79
cullennz
Embarrasingly illiterate
 
cullennz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 16,190
Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
No, did you miss my edit. It took me a minute, give aging brains a little slack.

You ignored all my questions and tossed in a squirrel for everyone to chase.

How about addressing my questions:

1 Is it OK for the vape sellers to lie and claim the products are safe?

2 Is it OK they be unregulated?

3 What age is it OK to sell these products to?

4 Who pays the health costs when dozens of young people end up in ICU from lung damage?
1 - No, but at least where I live they don't

2 - Probably not, but if they are going to regulate it here NZ they don't seem to put any priority into it

3 - Same age as cigs

4 - Free public health here, so like everything else, if you have no health insurance, the tax payer. We pay for drink drivers crashing and becoming paraplegics so have no issue for a few people finding a substitute for cigs.

And the point that keeps being missed is the majority of cases are home mixed with THC.

Most people aren't that dim.
__________________
I generally oppose gun control, but I support the ban on assault weapons and I support a slightly longer waiting period to purchase a gun. With today’s Internet technology we should be able to tell within 72-hours if a potential gun owner has a record.

Source: The America We Deserve, by Donald Trump, p.102 , Jul 2, 2000
cullennz is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 12th September 2019, 07:53 PM   #80
Skeptic Ginger
Nasty Woman
 
Skeptic Ginger's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 75,522
Originally Posted by cullennz View Post
1 - No, but at least where I live they don't

2 - Probably not, but if they are going to regulate it here NZ they don't seem to put any priority into it

3 - Same age as cigs

4 - Free public health here, so like everything else, if you have no health insurance, the tax payer. We pay for drink drivers crashing and becoming paraplegics so have no issue for a few people finding a substitute for cigs.
Your public health is not free, everyone pays in. So manufacturers who promote dangerous products by deceit are costing everyone.

Originally Posted by cullennz View Post
And the point that keeps being missed is the majority of cases are home mixed with THC.

Most people aren't that dim.
So you say. But the public health epidemiologists are not that stupid, they have not yet found the common denominator culprit other than vaping.
__________________
That new avatar is cuteness overload.
Restore checks and balances no matter your party affiliation.
Skeptic Ginger is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Reply

International Skeptics Forum » General Topics » Social Issues & Current Events

Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 08:47 AM.
Powered by vBulletin. Copyright ©2000 - 2019, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.

This forum began as part of the James Randi Education Foundation (JREF). However, the forum now exists as
an independent entity with no affiliation with or endorsement by the JREF, including the section in reference to "JREF" topics.

Disclaimer: Messages posted in the Forum are solely the opinion of their authors.