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Tags 2020 elections , democratic party , presidential candidates

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Old 21st January 2019, 09:33 AM   #441
kellyb
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Originally Posted by Segnosaur View Post
Sadly, given the underlying racism that seems to be evident in a large part of the electorate, "old white men" may be the best way to beat Trump.
Well, a lot of people who voted for Obama in 2008 ended up voting for Trump.
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/08/15/u...hey-think.html
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Old 21st January 2019, 09:35 AM   #442
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I'll admit I've had a hard time jumping on board with the narrative that Hillary lost because of racism but Obama didn't because that just doesn't make any kind of sense.
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Old 21st January 2019, 09:35 AM   #443
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Originally Posted by Belz... View Post
Which shows that his support's not based on his actual policies or character, but on him being not a democrat, and "sticking" it to them.
Yep.

I think these people want a dictator/strongman as much as anything else, too. As long as he seems to be sticking it to any demographic they see as weaklings, they're happy.
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Old 21st January 2019, 09:44 AM   #444
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Originally Posted by kellyb View Post
Quote:
Sadly, given the underlying racism that seems to be evident in a large part of the electorate, "old white men" may be the best way to beat Trump.
Well, a lot of people who voted for Obama in 2008 ended up voting for Trump.
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/08/15/u...hey-think.html
Different elections, different circumstances.

The Democrats were likely going to win in 2008 simply because the electorate had turned on Bush (due to the multiple wars and declining economic situation.) And in 2012, it was "Obama vs. a white guy", but Romney didn't attempt to play the race card.

The thing about Trump... he has certainly put all the cards on the table. What had been thinly veiled racism is now out in the open, and the Democratic party has to deal with it.
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Old 21st January 2019, 09:52 AM   #445
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Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
That's gonna happen regardless. "But the other side is going to be hypocritical about it..." is literally going happen for everything in politics. We can't make decisions based on something that's gonna happen regardless.
Reminds me of the Simpsons episode where we flashback to Homer and Marge naming their second child. Homer goes through a number of names suggested by Marge and always finds an insult someone could throw at him based on it, and then they settle on "Bart", missing the obvious conclusion.
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Old 21st January 2019, 09:57 AM   #446
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Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
"But Biden's so old!"

You guys do know Trump is like...72 right? And was the oldest person ever to take the office? If 72 doesn't bother the voters 76 won't. Unless they think the candidate is going to keel over or go senile in the next 4/8 years, they'll vote for them if they like them regardless of age.

Let's address the elephant in the room. The Dems don't want to run Biden because he's an old white man and right now the narrative the Democrats really, really want to write is someone who's not an old white man beating the old white man.

They are gonna put up a symbolic representative for all the disenfranchised groups up there, another woman, probably someone of color-ish (brown but not too brown as they call it in Hollywood), and that's risky.
So naive! Trump will just call him Old Man Biden and win the election. You and the New York Times will try to patiently explain that Trump is only four years younger as if anyone will listen. Crooked Hillary! Low Energy Jeb! Lyiní Ted! Sweaty Little Marco! Etc...
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Old 21st January 2019, 10:01 AM   #447
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Patterson: I can't believe what I'm hearing!
Homer: Well, then you'd better turn up your hearing aid, Pops.
Patterson: "Pops"? I'm only two years older than you!
Homer: Do we want Old Man Patterson here with his finger on the button?
Patterson: What button?! What the hell are you talking about?!
Homer: [mocking] "What? What? What? What button? Where am I? Who took my false teeth?"
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Old 21st January 2019, 10:03 AM   #448
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Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
Re: Possibility of Democrats nominating Biden, who may be seen as 'too old'...
Quote:
You're forgetting about the Republican party's limitless ability to engage in hypocrisy. (Remember, the party that contemned Clinton for sexual misconduct now doesn't care about such things when Trump did them.) I'm sure if Biden became the candidate, any time he sneezes it would result in hours of coverage on Fox news suggesting that he's at death's door and that we need to stick with Trump because his doc said he was so healthy.
That's gonna happen regardless. "But the other side is going to be hypocritical about it..." is literally going happen for everything in politics. We can't make decisions based on something that's gonna happen regardless.
Yes, the republicans will resort to hypocrisy regardless (as well as other dirty tricks).

I think its a question of 1) degrees, and 2) how effective it will be. And nominating a candidate who is even older than Trump would potentially make republican attacks more effective.
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Old 21st January 2019, 10:07 AM   #449
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Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
Patterson: I can't believe what I'm hearing!
Homer: Well, then you'd better turn up your hearing aid, Pops.
Patterson: "Pops"? I'm only two years older than you!
Homer: Do we want Old Man Patterson here with his finger on the button?
Patterson: What button?! What the hell are you talking about?!
Homer: [mocking] "What? What? What? What button? Where am I? Who took my false teeth?"
Holy crap! I didnít even know about that and yet I think that is exactly the way the debates would go!
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Old 21st January 2019, 10:21 AM   #450
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Originally Posted by Segnosaur View Post
Yes, the republicans will resort to hypocrisy regardless (as well as other dirty tricks).

I think its a question of 1) degrees, and 2) how effective it will be. And nominating a candidate who is even older than Trump would potentially make republican attacks more effective.
In terms of effectiveness, I really don't think people are going to not show up to vote just because the nominee is old, or decide to vote for Trump because he's 2 or 4 years younger.

I think if people don't show up to vote for Biden, it'll primarily be a lack of enthusiasm for what's seen as "the establishment" more than his age.
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Old 21st January 2019, 10:41 AM   #451
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Biden would work as long as there is a much younger, female VP.
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Old 21st January 2019, 11:00 AM   #452
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Originally Posted by The Great Zaganza View Post
Biden would work as long as there is a much younger, female VP.
You forgot black, gay and trans.
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Old 21st January 2019, 11:03 AM   #453
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Originally Posted by Belz... View Post
You forgot black, gay and trans.
Women are the bigger circle in a Venn diagram.
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Old 21st January 2019, 11:03 AM   #454
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Kamala Harris just announced a 2020 Presidential run in case it hasn't been mentioned yet.
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Old 21st January 2019, 11:04 AM   #455
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Originally Posted by The Great Zaganza View Post
Women are the bigger circle in a Venn diagram.
In terms of numbers yes, but not in terms of oppression points. You got to stack them up.
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Old 21st January 2019, 11:05 AM   #456
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The Democrats sometimes have a problem with the fact that you get into power and then you help the disenfranchised groups, you don't count on the disenfranchised groups to you get you into power because, and here's the complicated part... they're disenfranchised.

Yeah sure it would just be so "End of a Movie" perfect for an African American disabled transgender immigrant lesbian with autism to beat Trump in the Presidential Race... but it's not gonna happen.
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Old 21st January 2019, 11:05 AM   #457
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Originally Posted by sir drinks-a-lot View Post
Kamala Harris just announced a 2020 Presidential run in case it hasn't been mentioned yet.
American politics are so weird. Up here we usually bother with the candidates a few days before the voting polls open.
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Old 22nd January 2019, 05:52 AM   #458
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Friendly (and smart) tweet by Cory Booker:

"Amen. I'm proud of @KamalaHarris too and grateful for her - what she did today is historic and something that should make us all respect and recognize.

And yes, I also share that prayer."

https://twitter.com/CoryBooker/statu...92750311194625

But the funniest reaction to Harris declaring must be this one:

"Full steam ahead on 2020 – Kamala Harris announced she will run today. She denied Brett Kavanaugh due process in front of the nation, and in so doing has lost my vote. I could not imagine any American for somebody who does not believe in due process."

https://twitter.com/BillOReilly/stat...86705433755648

She's lost the O'Reilly vote!
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Old 22nd January 2019, 06:33 AM   #459
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Originally Posted by Belz... View Post
American politics are so weird. Up here we usually bother with the candidates a few days before the voting polls open.
100% serious, no joke.

It would not surprise me in the least if in my lifetime I start seeing people actively, publicly campaigning for a major election position an election out.

As in no B.S. I think in the 2020, 2030s or so seeing people campaigning for the Presidential Election after the upcoming one will be a thing we could see.
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Old 22nd January 2019, 07:23 AM   #460
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Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
100% serious, no joke.

It would not surprise me in the least if in my lifetime I start seeing people actively, publicly campaigning for a major election position an election out.

As in no B.S. I think in the 2020, 2030s or so seeing people campaigning for the Presidential Election after the upcoming one will be a thing we could see.
I am almost surprised that Republican candidates are not putting their name forward for 2024. It would make sense to get the ball rolling now, get some name recognition, build up the coffers with some NRA money, some oil money, some Wall Street Companies, and also be ready - just in case - to slot in if Donnie should suddenly keel over with half a quarter-pounder in his mouth or if he accidentally, brutally stabbed himself to death in the shower, or some pictures of him and Putin in a hot tub emerge.
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Old 22nd January 2019, 07:26 AM   #461
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Originally Posted by angrysoba View Post
I am almost surprised that Republican candidates are not putting their name forward for 2024. It would make sense to get the ball rolling now, get some name recognition, build up the coffers with some NRA money, some oil money, some Wall Street Companies, and also be ready - just in case - to slot in if Donnie should suddenly keel over with half a quarter-pounder in his mouth or if he accidentally, brutally stabbed himself to death in the shower, or some pictures of him and Putin in a hot tub emerge.
Someone should announce their foetus' candidacy for 2056.
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Old 22nd January 2019, 11:45 AM   #462
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Get ready for Birther 2.0!


At least one idiot on Twitter is pushing the idea that Kamala might not be a real Natural Born Citizen and is thus ineligible to be president.
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Old 22nd January 2019, 12:02 PM   #463
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Originally Posted by Travis View Post
Get ready for Birther 2.0!

At least one idiot on Twitter is pushing the idea that Kamala might not be a real Natural Born Citizen and is thus ineligible to be president.
Seriously...! Every inane opinion we might imagine exists on the internet/twitter emanating from anonymous, random bozos. If you give credence to this random bozo, then we must give credence to all random bozos.

One thing that separates "the good guys" is we can point to the bat **** crazy stuff that Trump et al say. Random bozos with idiotic opinions exist all across the political spectrum. When you assign weight to these meaningless opinions, you give away a rhetorical advantage.
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Old 22nd January 2019, 12:12 PM   #464
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Originally Posted by Travis View Post
Get ready for Birther 2.0!


At least one idiot on Twitter is pushing the idea that Kamala might not be a real Natural Born Citizen and is thus ineligible to be president.
To be fair, this does not appear to be a dispute about the facts of the birth. This appears to be a return of natural born arguments.
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Old 22nd January 2019, 02:05 PM   #465
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Originally Posted by varwoche View Post
Seriously...! Every inane opinion we might imagine exists on the internet/twitter emanating from anonymous, random bozos. If you give credence to this random bozo, then we must give credence to all random bozos.

One thing that separates "the good guys" is we can point to the bat **** crazy stuff that Trump et al say. Random bozos with idiotic opinions exist all across the political spectrum. When you assign weight to these meaningless opinions, you give away a rhetorical advantage.

Tell that to Chris Cuomo of CNN who is saying she needs to produce her birth certificate now in order to head off the Birther nonsense before it becomes a a huge wave of hate from the right.
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Old 22nd January 2019, 03:56 PM   #466
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Originally Posted by kellyb View Post
"Cutting discretionary spending" means cutting Social Security and Medicare/Medicaid, basically always, as far as I know.

No, those are mandatory funding. Discretionary funding doesn't include them.
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Old 22nd January 2019, 04:45 PM   #467
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Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
"But Biden's so old!"

You guys do know Trump is like...72 right? And was the oldest person ever to take the office? If 72 doesn't bother the voters 76 won't. Unless they think the candidate is going to keel over or go senile in the next 4/8 years, they'll vote for them if they like them regardless of age.

Let's address the elephant in the room. The Dems don't want to run Biden because he's an old white man and right now the narrative the Democrats really, really want to write is someone who's not an old white man beating the old white man.

They are gonna put up a symbolic representative for all the disenfranchised groups up there, another woman, probably someone of color-ish (brown but not too brown as they call it in Hollywood), and that's risky.
I agree that's what the Dems want, but I see some sleight of hand there as well on their part.

Biden came in, what, second to Kamala Harris in CNN's latest analysis of who they think will (or should) be the front-runner for the Democrats in 2020.

Bernie Sanders, who came in second to Hillary Clinton in 2016 was listed at 8th place, which is a joke. Support for both Biden and Sanders is high among the left as a whole. They spent some time deducting points from Sanders because he's an "old white man" and how voters want to see a fresher face, but of course with one foot in the door when it comes to Biden.

Biden of course doesn't rock the boat nearly as much as Sanders, so he gets to jump forward in favorability into the top 5 along with Kamala Harris and Cory Booker.

The establishment Democrats and their supporters can drown out the leading socially and fiscally progressive candidate while focusing discontent against the old white male establishment.

Win-win.

Last edited by Venom; 22nd January 2019 at 04:46 PM.
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Old 22nd January 2019, 05:15 PM   #468
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I think democrats want a candidate that comes across as being genuine and having integrity. They don't want someone who panders to poll results on various issues because they hope it will get them votes. They want someone who has a history of already supporting those issues because it's what they personally believe in.

That, in my opinion, is part of why Clinton lost. Whether accurate or not, she had the appearance of not being genuine and it cost her just enough votes in enough key states to lose the election
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Old 22nd January 2019, 06:17 PM   #469
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Originally Posted by Travis View Post
Tell that to Chris Cuomo of CNN who is saying she needs to produce her birth certificate now in order to head off the Birther nonsense before it becomes a a huge wave of hate from the right.
Does he remember how well that worked for Obama? It's almost like birthers had a different underlying motive.
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Old 23rd January 2019, 03:52 AM   #470
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Originally Posted by Travis View Post
Tell that to Chris Cuomo of CNN who is saying she needs to produce her birth certificate now in order to head off the Birther nonsense before it becomes a a huge wave of hate from the right.
Chris Cuomo has deleted his asinine tweet and says it was misinterpreted.

"I agree with all of this. The tweet was meant to put onus on accuser. Not Harris. That is the lesson of birtherism. Deleting original tweet to make this clear. Apologies."

https://twitter.com/ChrisCuomo/statu...88895566266369

"Deleted my original tweet because it was taken literally the opposite way that I intended it. Sen Harris has no duty to justify any such accusation, let alone a birtherism attack. You accuse, you prove. That was my point. Apologize for confusion."

https://twitter.com/ChrisCuomo/statu...89887447797760
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Old 23rd January 2019, 04:39 PM   #471
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Pete Buttigieg throws his hat into the ring. Mayor of South Bend, gay, name pronounced like bootuhjudge. He was the subject of an odd profile a month or so ago, which focused on his apparent love for those crane machines where you try to use a claw to grab a stuffed animal.

Quote:
And so that’s how Buttigieg and I ended up in the “playcafť” area of The South Bend Chocolate Company, standing in front of a yellow game called Toy Soldier at 11:30 a.m. one snowy Friday in November. To truly understand the cerebral mayor, Harris told me, I needed to see him work the claw. This one happened to be only a few minutes’ walk from his 14th-floor office in the County-City Building. The only other people present on this day were a few stay-at-home moms and a dad passing the morning with their toddlers in tow.
And if you're wondering how in the world seeing him work the claw would help the writer understand him, it's summed up in the title of the piece: Pete Buttigieg has his eyes on the prize. I guess the concept is that he will pursue the presidency with the same intent focus that he employs while pursuing a pink and purple monkey.

I know, mayors are not usually considered frontrunners for the presidency, although Eric Garcetti (LA) and Bill de Blasio (NYC) are certainly considered likely to be in the race.
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Old 23rd January 2019, 06:06 PM   #472
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Originally Posted by Brainster View Post
Pete Buttigieg throws his hat into the ring. Mayor of South Bend, gay, name pronounced like bootuhjudge.
I believe he hinted at a run late last year if I recall correctly.

Gay, Afghan War veteran, young (he's 37)

Excellent profile as far as what the Democratic Party is looking for in a candidate.
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Old 23rd January 2019, 06:28 PM   #473
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The New York Times lobs a grenade at Joe Biden:

Quote:
Joseph R. Biden Jr. swept into Benton Harbor, Mich., three weeks before the November elections, in the midst of his quest to reclaim the Midwest for Democrats. He took the stage at Lake Michigan College as Representative Fred Upton, a long-serving Republican from the area, faced the toughest race of his career.

But Mr. Biden was not there to denounce Mr. Upton. Instead, he was collecting $200,000 from the Economic Club of Southwestern Michigan to address a Republican-leaning audience, according to a speaking contract obtained by The New York Times and interviews with organizers. The group, a business-minded civic organization, is supported in part by an Upton family foundation.

Mr. Biden stunned Democrats and elated Republicans by praising Mr. Upton while the lawmaker looked on from the audience. Alluding to Mr. Uptonís support for a landmark medical-research law, Mr. Biden called him a champion in the fight against cancer ó and ďone of the finest guys Iíve ever worked with.Ē
Upton ended up surviving by 4.5 percentage points. As you can imagine, this has not endeared Biden to local Democrats. Even worse, the thrust of the piece seems to be that Biden sold them out for the $200,000. Making things a little more interesting is this:

Quote:
The speaking series was underwritten in part by organizations connected to Mr. Uptonís family: Among the biggest sponsors listed on the Economic Clubís website are the Whirlpool Corporation, which was co-founded by Mr. Uptonís grandfather, and the Frederick S. Upton Foundation, a family charity named for the same man.
So Biden receives 200 grand from a group that receives its funding from organizations connected to Upton, and gives a speech in which he praises Upton weeks before the election.

Personally, I believe that Biden was just being a nice guy to someone he had worked with, and expressing legitimate admiration. Tone-deaf as hell.

I do wonder if one of the other Democratic campaigns tipped the Times off to the story.
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Old 23rd January 2019, 07:09 PM   #474
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Originally Posted by Brainster View Post
I know, mayors are not usually considered frontrunners for the presidency, although Eric Garcetti (LA) and Bill de Blasio (NYC) are certainly considered likely to be in the race.
On the other side, one R. Giuliani figured a while back that just having been mayor of NYC during 9/11 would be enough to guarantee him the R nomination without even having to campaign.
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Old 23rd January 2019, 09:00 PM   #475
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Originally Posted by Brainster View Post
The New York Times lobs a grenade at Joe Biden:



Upton ended up surviving by 4.5 percentage points. As you can imagine, this has not endeared Biden to local Democrats. Even worse, the thrust of the piece seems to be that Biden sold them out for the $200,000. Making things a little more interesting is this:



So Biden receives 200 grand from a group that receives its funding from organizations connected to Upton, and gives a speech in which he praises Upton weeks before the election.

Personally, I believe that Biden was just being a nice guy to someone he had worked with, and expressing legitimate admiration. Tone-deaf as hell.

I do wonder if one of the other Democratic campaigns tipped the Times off to the story.
I'm glad they did report on the story and see no reason why large corporate donations should not be reported. If there is an assumption that the New York Times should not be disclosing these things about Democratic politicians then I would reject it. You take money from people for your campaign then people ought to know in whose interests you are pledging to serve.
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Old 23rd January 2019, 09:02 PM   #476
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Originally Posted by Trebuchet View Post
On the other side, one R. Giuliani figured a while back that just having been mayor of NYC during 9/11 would be enough to guarantee him the R nomination without even having to campaign.
I think there was a bit more to it than that. He had also been widely praised for having reduced crime in New York and getting the subway to operate properly.
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Old 23rd January 2019, 10:59 PM   #477
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Well being mayor of either LA or NYC does mean being in charge of a metropolis with more people than about twenty red states.
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Old 23rd January 2019, 11:04 PM   #478
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Originally Posted by angrysoba View Post
I think there was a bit more to it than that. He had also been widely praised for having reduced crime in New York and getting the subway to operate properly.
He did so well, he even caused the crime rate to decrease across the country.
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Old 23rd January 2019, 11:33 PM   #479
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Originally Posted by Trebuchet View Post
On the other side, one R. Giuliani figured a while back that just having been mayor of NYC during 9/11 would be enough to guarantee him the R nomination without even having to campaign.
It was actually a reasonable gamble, even though it did not work out. Giuliani knew that he couldn't compete in Iowa or New Hampshire, so he mostly sat out those races, hoping that McCain would be beat after those two states (because Giuliani was competing for the same voters). Unfortunately for him, McCain came out of New Hampshire with a full head of steam. Really the significant moment came in Iowa, when Romney was bested by Huckabee. That tarnished the "inevitable" aura around Mitt, and set McCain up for the win in the Granite State.
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Old 24th January 2019, 06:08 AM   #480
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Originally Posted by BobTheCoward View Post
He did so well, he even caused the crime rate to decrease across the country.
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