ISF Logo   IS Forum
Forum Index Register Members List Events Mark Forums Read Help

Go Back   International Skeptics Forum » General Topics » USA Politics
 


Welcome to the International Skeptics Forum, where we discuss skepticism, critical thinking, the paranormal and science in a friendly but lively way. You are currently viewing the forum as a guest, which means you are missing out on discussing matters that are of interest to you. Please consider registering so you can gain full use of the forum features and interact with other Members. Registration is simple, fast and free! Click here to register today.
Tags 2020 elections , democratic party , presidential candidates

Closed Thread
Old 29th January 2019, 12:07 PM   #521
kellyb
Penultimate Amazing
 
kellyb's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 11,268
Originally Posted by Venom View Post
This is the kind of attitude we need from the Democrat candidates.

Ocasio-Cortez: If Trump was gone tomorrow, it wouldn't change 'systemic injustices'

CNN, MSNBC and other ostensibly left-leaning media like to make it about the Orange Man, how members of the left take shots at him, how much better they speak, read, write than him. And the Mueller investigation that they just can't wait patiently for...

We get it, but we can do that all day. What about the middle class, what about healthcare, the corrupting corporate influence in politics, etc?
Yep.

Exclusively being obsessed with Trump and ignoring systemic injustices and oligarchy, pretending the tens of thousands dying from lack of healthcare a year in the US don't exist, etc and so on, is some kind of new ideological purity test with centrists, and I'm not sure how well it's going to serve the Democratic Party in 2020.
__________________
The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, and wiser people so full of doubts ~ Bertrand Russell
I am proud to say that Henry Kissinger is not my friend.

Last edited by kellyb; 29th January 2019 at 12:08 PM.
kellyb is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Back to Top
Old 29th January 2019, 12:33 PM   #522
angrysoba
Philosophile
 
angrysoba's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Osaka, Japan
Posts: 25,198
Originally Posted by Venom View Post
This is the kind of attitude we need from the Democrat candidates.

Ocasio-Cortez: If Trump was gone tomorrow, it wouldn't change 'systemic injustices'

CNN, MSNBC and other ostensibly left-leaning media like to make it about the Orange Man, how members of the left take shots at him, how much better they speak, read, write than him. And the Mueller investigation that they just can't wait patiently for...

We get it, but we can do that all day. What about the middle class, what about healthcare, the corrupting corporate influence in politics, etc?
Iím voting for her!
__________________
"The thief and the murderer follow nature just as much as the philanthropist. Cosmic evolution may teach us how the good and the evil tendencies of man may have come about; but, in itself, it is incompetent to furnish any better reason why what we call good is preferable to what we call evil than we had before."

"Evolution and Ethics" T.H. Huxley (1893)
angrysoba is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Back to Top
Old 29th January 2019, 12:50 PM   #523
Mumbles
Philosopher
 
Mumbles's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 7,089
Originally Posted by Belz... View Post
....what?
I won't bother linking, since the Bernie Bros are mostly idiots on Twitter, but I've seen this as well, as well as:

1) "She's trying to pander, look at her dancing at one point and claiming that she likes Tribe Called Quest, it's like when Hillary said she had hot sauce in her bag!" Note that references to Hillary's love of hot sauce can be found going back to the 1990s, and Harris is the perfect age to enjoy rap from that era;

2) "Harris isn't even black/never identified as black, her father's Indian and her mother is Jamaican!" from Tariq Nasheed and other hoteps.

And stay tuned for Birtherism 2.0!

(again, "Bernie Bro" isn't any Sanders Supporter, but the ones who insisted that Hillary was a bitch and a c*nt, viciously attacked anyone who offered even mild criticism of Sanders, and so forth)

Last edited by Mumbles; 29th January 2019 at 12:57 PM.
Mumbles is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Back to Top
Old 29th January 2019, 12:52 PM   #524
Belz...
Fiend God
 
Belz...'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: In the details
Posts: 83,937
Originally Posted by Mumbles View Post
I won't bother linking, since the Bernie Bros are mostly idiots on Twitter, but I've seen this as well, as well as:

1) "She's trying to pander, look at her dancing at one point and claiming that she likes Tribe Called Quest, it's like when Hillary said she had hot sauce in her bag!" Note that references to Hillary's love of hot sauce can be found going back to the 1990s;

2) "Harris isn't even black/never identified as black, her father's Indian and her mother is Jamaican!" from Tariq Nasheed and other hoteps.

And stay tuned for Birtherism 2.0!
I have to admit to not understanding a single word of the 'arguments' you've quoted there. What are they saying?
__________________
Master of the Shining Darkness

"My views are nonsense. So what?" - BobTheCoward


Belz... is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Back to Top
Old 29th January 2019, 12:59 PM   #525
acbytesla
Penultimate Amazing
 
acbytesla's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 21,804
Originally Posted by Venom View Post
This is the kind of attitude we need from the Democrat candidates.

Ocasio-Cortez: If Trump was gone tomorrow, it wouldn't change 'systemic injustices'

CNN, MSNBC and other ostensibly left-leaning media like to make it about the Orange Man, how members of the left take shots at him, how much better they speak, read, write than him. And the Mueller investigation that they just can't wait patiently for...

We get it, but we can do that all day. What about the middle class, what about healthcare, the corrupting corporate influence in politics, etc?
Originally Posted by angrysoba View Post
Iím voting for her!
I love her too. Her policy positions ARE not off the deep end. She's also genuine. She's not faking enthusiasm.
__________________
Try
Science, not superstition.
Reason, not revelation.
Education, not epiphanies
Intellect, not ignorance.
.
acbytesla is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Back to Top
Old 29th January 2019, 01:22 PM   #526
Mumbles
Philosopher
 
Mumbles's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 7,089
Originally Posted by Belz... View Post
I have to admit to not understanding a single word of the 'arguments' you've quoted there. What are they saying?
That'll take a while, and it's all pretty minor

The complaints Travis is referring to concern her record as a prosecutor. This is fair game, but some people on the left are of the "get rid of prisons" type, so they object to even rapists and murderers being imprisoned. She doesn't agree with this, naturally.

In the US, prisoners often do menial work for corporations for far below minimum wage (which we should stop), and in California nonviolent offenders are sometimes used fo fight brush fires, but are ineligible for firefighting jobs upon release (this is just stupid), so this is where the "she kept slaves" claim comes from.

"A Tribe Called Quest" is a popular 1990s rap group - Harris recently named one of their songs as "a song that always makes me dance", which is supposedly "pandering".

The second is basically an attack from the more misogynistic segments of US black culture. "Hoteps" are obsessed with pseudoscience, Egyptian pseudohistory of the sort that portrays black Americans as the descendents of an ancient Wakanda-like version of Egypt, and the like.

Howard is an HBCU (Historically Black College or University)- Tariq Nasheed is basically claiming that she's only claiming black Americans now that she's running for president - despite her attending a black college (she also pledged a black sorority, but that's another matter). In other words, this is a childish "you're not black enough" argument.

I assume you know what birtherism is - I've seen people claiming that she's ineligible to be president because her parents were immigrants/she wasn't *really* born in the US/etc.
Mumbles is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Back to Top
Old 29th January 2019, 01:23 PM   #527
Mumbles
Philosopher
 
Mumbles's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 7,089
Originally Posted by Venom View Post
This is the kind of attitude we need from the Democrat candidates.

Ocasio-Cortez: If Trump was gone tomorrow, it wouldn't change 'systemic injustices'

CNN, MSNBC and other ostensibly left-leaning media like to make it about the Orange Man, how members of the left take shots at him, how much better they speak, read, write than him. And the Mueller investigation that they just can't wait patiently for...

We get it, but we can do that all day. What about the middle class, what about healthcare, the corrupting corporate influence in politics, etc?
I'm one of many that have said the same here. It's definitely nice to hear it from someone in congress, though.
Mumbles is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Back to Top
Old 29th January 2019, 02:54 PM   #528
Travis
Misanthrope of the Mountains
 
Travis's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 23,993
Originally Posted by varwoche View Post
Citation please.

I could swear, there once was a time when an expectation existed that claims such as this should be followed by, get this, a quote and a link. What a concept!

Lacking a quote and a link, and being aware of the BS you routinely foist, I don't buy your unsupported claims for a nanosecond.

Are you not on twitter?


Seriously just look at the tweets in any major story about her and someone will come up with some line of reasoning that goes "Kamala was a cop that kept slaves."


If you really are ignorant of all this it refers to a belief held by some very nosy twitter bernie bros that she deliberately kept black men in prison so that the state of California could use them for prison labor. It is stupid and yet the question even came up during her town hall last night on CNN. It is stupid and yet I come across it again and again on twitter.


I won't even get into the ridiculousness that is their claims that she slept her way to the top. But that is out there too on twitter.
__________________
"Because WE ARE IGNORANT OF 911 FACTS, WE DEMAND PROOF" -- Douglas Herman on Rense.com
Zingiber Officinale

Travis is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Back to Top
Old 29th January 2019, 02:57 PM   #529
Travis
Misanthrope of the Mountains
 
Travis's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 23,993
Originally Posted by Mumbles View Post
I won't bother linking, since the Bernie Bros are mostly idiots on Twitter, but I've seen this as well, as well as:

1) "She's trying to pander, look at her dancing at one point and claiming that she likes Tribe Called Quest, it's like when Hillary said she had hot sauce in her bag!" Note that references to Hillary's love of hot sauce can be found going back to the 1990s, and Harris is the perfect age to enjoy rap from that era;

2) "Harris isn't even black/never identified as black, her father's Indian and her mother is Jamaican!" from Tariq Nasheed and other hoteps.

And stay tuned for Birtherism 2.0!

(again, "Bernie Bro" isn't any Sanders Supporter, but the ones who insisted that Hillary was a bitch and a c*nt, viciously attacked anyone who offered even mild criticism of Sanders, and so forth)

Tariq got on her for just putting her hair in a bun. Somehow claiming that pulling her hair back was some sort of pandering to "real black women" or something. That guy is weird and I note that a lot of other black people on twitter seem to hate him.
__________________
"Because WE ARE IGNORANT OF 911 FACTS, WE DEMAND PROOF" -- Douglas Herman on Rense.com
Zingiber Officinale

Travis is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Back to Top
Old 29th January 2019, 03:04 PM   #530
Travis
Misanthrope of the Mountains
 
Travis's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 23,993
Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
It's called "I made up an opinion that sounds like something someone on the other side would say, so I'm just gonna say they said it without actually waiting for someone to actually say it."

Travis does that a lot.

The fact that you think I make stuff up is telling that you keep to some safe places and don't dive deep into the comments left all over the place on the web but especially on social media.
__________________
"Because WE ARE IGNORANT OF 911 FACTS, WE DEMAND PROOF" -- Douglas Herman on Rense.com
Zingiber Officinale

Travis is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Back to Top
Old 29th January 2019, 03:35 PM   #531
JoeMorgue
Self Employed
Remittance Man
 
JoeMorgue's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Florida
Posts: 19,523
Originally Posted by Travis View Post
The fact that you think I make stuff up is telling that you keep to some safe places and don't dive deep into the comments left all over the place on the web but especially on social media.
No. I don't go looking for people to get angry at. Do you honestly think that makes you a better person than me?

Yes Travis you go looking for any random anonymous online who says whatever you need to justify your rage. We know.



Alt Text: "I thought of another bad opinion! I couldn't find anyone who expressed it specifically, but still, the fact that I can so easily imagine it is infuriating! I'm gonna tell everyone about it!"
__________________
- "Ernest Hemingway once wrote that the world is a fine place and worth fighting for. I agree with the second part." - Detective Sommerset
- "Stupidity does not cancel out stupidity to yield genius. It breeds like a bucket-full of coked out hamsters." - The Oatmeal
- "To the best of my knowledge the only thing philosophy has ever proven is that Descartes could think." - SMBC

Last edited by JoeMorgue; 29th January 2019 at 03:38 PM.
JoeMorgue is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Back to Top
Old 29th January 2019, 03:57 PM   #532
Ziggurat
Penultimate Amazing
 
Ziggurat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Posts: 43,794
Originally Posted by Travis View Post
The fact that you think I make stuff up is telling that you keep to some safe places and don't dive deep into the comments left all over the place on the web but especially on social media.
Travis. Dude. Get the hell off social media. It isn't representative of reality, and it's making you miserable.
__________________
"As long as it is admitted that the law may be diverted from its true purpose -- that it may violate property instead of protecting it -- then everyone will want to participate in making the law, either to protect himself against plunder or to use it for plunder. Political questions will always be prejudicial, dominant, and all-absorbing. There will be fighting at the door of the Legislative Palace, and the struggle within will be no less furious." - Bastiat, The Law
Ziggurat is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Back to Top
Old 29th January 2019, 04:37 PM   #533
Stacko
Penultimate Amazing
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 10,837
https://www.politico.com/amp/story/2...mpression=true

Who will the Maduro supporters vote for now?
Stacko is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Back to Top
Old 29th January 2019, 04:54 PM   #534
Brainster
Penultimate Amazing
 
Brainster's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 16,669
Originally Posted by Travis View Post
If you really are ignorant of all this it refers to a belief held by some very nosy twitter bernie bros that she deliberately kept black men in prison so that the state of California could use them for prison labor.
Her office made that exact argument in court.

Quote:
Harris was responding to revelations that lawyers in her office argued in court without her knowledge that a program to parole more prisoners would drain the state’s source of cheap labor.
__________________
My new blog: Recent Reads.
1960s Comic Book Nostalgia
Visit the Screw Loose Change blog.

Last edited by Brainster; 29th January 2019 at 04:58 PM.
Brainster is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Back to Top
Old 29th January 2019, 05:27 PM   #535
angrysoba
Philosophile
 
angrysoba's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Osaka, Japan
Posts: 25,198
Originally Posted by Travis View Post
Are you not on twitter?
I have an account, but I never use it. I value my mental health too highly to spend hours of my day reading gobs of bile.

Originally Posted by Travis View Post
Seriously just look at the tweets in any major story about her and someone will come up with some line of reasoning that goes "Kamala was a cop that kept slaves."


If you really are ignorant of all this it refers to a belief held by some very nosy twitter bernie bros that she deliberately kept black men in prison so that the state of California could use them for prison labor. It is stupid and yet the question even came up during her town hall last night on CNN. It is stupid and yet I come across it again and again on twitter.
Seriously... donít look at the tweets!

Although, now that you mention it, isnít there something in the idea that penal slave labour, especially given the way it tends to be performed by minority groups is something worth condemning and those who participate in the system?

Maybe the ďnosinessĒ of the Bernie Bros, if you mean those who investigate candidatesí background, is warranted.
__________________
"The thief and the murderer follow nature just as much as the philanthropist. Cosmic evolution may teach us how the good and the evil tendencies of man may have come about; but, in itself, it is incompetent to furnish any better reason why what we call good is preferable to what we call evil than we had before."

"Evolution and Ethics" T.H. Huxley (1893)
angrysoba is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Back to Top
Old 29th January 2019, 05:30 PM   #536
Belz...
Fiend God
 
Belz...'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: In the details
Posts: 83,937
Originally Posted by Mumbles View Post
That'll take a while, and it's all pretty minor

The complaints Travis is referring to concern her record as a prosecutor. This is fair game, but some people on the left are of the "get rid of prisons" type, so they object to even rapists and murderers being imprisoned. She doesn't agree with this, naturally.

In the US, prisoners often do menial work for corporations for far below minimum wage (which we should stop), and in California nonviolent offenders are sometimes used fo fight brush fires, but are ineligible for firefighting jobs upon release (this is just stupid), so this is where the "she kept slaves" claim comes from.

"A Tribe Called Quest" is a popular 1990s rap group - Harris recently named one of their songs as "a song that always makes me dance", which is supposedly "pandering".

The second is basically an attack from the more misogynistic segments of US black culture. "Hoteps" are obsessed with pseudoscience, Egyptian pseudohistory of the sort that portrays black Americans as the descendents of an ancient Wakanda-like version of Egypt, and the like.

Howard is an HBCU (Historically Black College or University)- Tariq Nasheed is basically claiming that she's only claiming black Americans now that she's running for president - despite her attending a black college (she also pledged a black sorority, but that's another matter). In other words, this is a childish "you're not black enough" argument.
And this supposedly comes from Sanders supporters?

Quote:
I assume you know what birtherism is - I've seen people claiming that she's ineligible to be president because her parents were immigrants/she wasn't *really* born in the US/etc.
Well, the right doesn't have a monopoly on crazy people.
__________________
Master of the Shining Darkness

"My views are nonsense. So what?" - BobTheCoward


Belz... is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Back to Top
Old 29th January 2019, 05:31 PM   #537
Belz...
Fiend God
 
Belz...'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: In the details
Posts: 83,937
Originally Posted by Travis View Post
Are you not on twitter?
I'm on Twitter to get news on stuff all on one site, not to hear gossip from conspiracy theorists and political activists.

It's a thing with you that you pick the worst thing you can find about a group of people and present it here as if it's somehow representative of that group. You really should quit that.
__________________
Master of the Shining Darkness

"My views are nonsense. So what?" - BobTheCoward


Belz... is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Back to Top
Old 29th January 2019, 05:32 PM   #538
Belz...
Fiend God
 
Belz...'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: In the details
Posts: 83,937
Originally Posted by Travis View Post
The fact that you think I make stuff up is telling that you keep to some safe places and don't dive deep into the comments left all over the place on the web but especially on social media.
STOP DIVING. You only find the fringe idiots and crackpots. Why would you want to do that? To find outrage for yourself?

Dude, get a life.
__________________
Master of the Shining Darkness

"My views are nonsense. So what?" - BobTheCoward


Belz... is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Back to Top
Old 29th January 2019, 06:56 PM   #539
kellyb
Penultimate Amazing
 
kellyb's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 11,268
Originally Posted by Mumbles View Post
I won't bother linking, since the Bernie Bros are mostly idiots on Twitter, but I've seen this as well, as well as:

1) "She's trying to pander, look at her dancing at one point and claiming that she likes Tribe Called Quest, it's like when Hillary said she had hot sauce in her bag!" Note that references to Hillary's love of hot sauce can be found going back to the 1990s, and Harris is the perfect age to enjoy rap from that era;

2) "Harris isn't even black/never identified as black, her father's Indian and her mother is Jamaican!" from Tariq Nasheed and other hoteps.

And stay tuned for Birtherism 2.0!

(again, "Bernie Bro" isn't any Sanders Supporter, but the ones who insisted that Hillary was a bitch and a c*nt, viciously attacked anyone who offered even mild criticism of Sanders, and so forth)
None of my black friends trust Harris, and none are hoteps. LOL None are Bernie Bros, either.

Also, those criticisms you mentioned aren't saying Harris kept slaves.

The actual Bernie Bros aren't really weighing in on any of the dem candidates much yet as far as I can see. A couple have said Warren is "just like Clinton", but they don't seem to really care much either way.
__________________
The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, and wiser people so full of doubts ~ Bertrand Russell
I am proud to say that Henry Kissinger is not my friend.
kellyb is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Back to Top
Old 29th January 2019, 07:00 PM   #540
kellyb
Penultimate Amazing
 
kellyb's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 11,268
Originally Posted by angrysoba View Post
I have an account, but I never use it. I value my mental health too highly to spend hours of my day reading gobs of bile.
My twitter feed is idiot-free. You just have to follow the right people. I mostly follow quasi-obscure journalists and some economists. That's where the action's at.
__________________
The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, and wiser people so full of doubts ~ Bertrand Russell
I am proud to say that Henry Kissinger is not my friend.
kellyb is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Back to Top
Old 29th January 2019, 07:22 PM   #541
varwoche
Penultimate Amazing
 
varwoche's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Puget Sound
Posts: 12,932
Originally Posted by Travis View Post
Are you not on twitter?
Not per se. But your question is irrelevant. I don't trust unreliable sources, e.g. you, no matter who/what the source is. Twitter doesn't excuse unsupported claims.

To be clear though: I believe that every whacked out opinion on Odin's green earth can be found on twitter/internet.

But without a citation, readers don't know if it was really a "Bernie bro". Readers don't know if you've characterized the comments accurately. For that matter, readers don't know if you made it all up. (I suspect not, but I wouldn't place a wager on it.)

Quote:
Seriously just look at the tweets in any major story about her and someone will come up with some line of reasoning that goes "Kamala was a cop that kept slaves."
Perhaps so.
__________________
To survive election season on a skeptics forum, one must understand Hymie-the-Robot.
varwoche is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Back to Top
Old 29th January 2019, 07:41 PM   #542
Delphic Oracle
Illuminator
 
Delphic Oracle's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2016
Posts: 3,375
Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
No. I don't go looking for people to get angry at. Do you honestly think that makes you a better person than me?

Yes Travis you go looking for any random anonymous online who says whatever you need to justify your rage. We know.

https://imgs.xkcd.com/comics/bad_opinions.png

Alt Text: "I thought of another bad opinion! I couldn't find anyone who expressed it specifically, but still, the fact that I can so easily imagine it is infuriating! I'm gonna tell everyone about it!"
Not to mention that this quite widespread phenomenon is precisely the thing certain countries interfering in U.S. elections are designing their bots to post comments for.

Remember, the goal is not a particular policy outcome or candidate elected. The goal is disunity and political paralysis. Look across the whole OECD, moderates are evaporating from elected offices. Everyone is polarizing. Everyone has examples of "just the worst kind of people" they've run into on "the other side" that harden them further towards their own extreme.

If you read for another kind of sign, you'll see it. Read for comments from "your own side" that, even if you seem to agree with the motive you think "yeah, but that's not the way to say it that really wins people over." Those are the ones that make your opponents feel like you do when you read the ones that piss you off.
Delphic Oracle is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Back to Top
Old 29th January 2019, 07:47 PM   #543
Mumbles
Philosopher
 
Mumbles's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 7,089
Originally Posted by Belz... View Post
And this supposedly comes from Sanders supporters?
The stuff Travis mentioned usually does. Much of the rest comes from the I-don't-vote, holier than thou sort of people. It won't amount to much of anything in the end, especially outside of the caucus states.

Quote:
Well, the right doesn't have a monopoly on crazy people.
Oh, definitely not. And on both sides, there are people that know exactly what they're doing, and just want the attention to sell something - Tariq falls into this category when you get down to it.

ETA: Like the Gillette ad or the Black Hebrew Israelites' routine, some of these guys work so that the people in their markets cheer them on, and the people who aren't in their target market get angry (Travis, this is you, quit falling for it), which makes the people in their target market even happier.

Last edited by Mumbles; 29th January 2019 at 08:07 PM.
Mumbles is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Back to Top
Old 29th January 2019, 11:31 PM   #544
Foolmewunz
Grammar Resistance Leader
TLA Dictator
 
Foolmewunz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Pattaya, Thailand
Posts: 41,146
Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
The Dems would rather have a... whatever the opposite of a "Great White Hope" is lose to Trump then have an old white male Democrat beat him.
Wrong. Just on these forums more than half of the Hillary Clinton supporters voted for her in spite of her baggage. And by that I am not referring to the Great Right Wing Noise Machine and its two decades of slander. I'm referring to her cozy corporatist Democrat background. Clinton and Obama both moved the Democratic Party back towards the banking/financing/corporate camps.

I think Joe Biden is fun. I don't think for a second he'd spearhead progressive plans or programs. I'd vote for him, though, for the same reasons I voted for Hillary; to unseat the GOP. Unfortunately, it's become important to think like a Republican now. Support the party because the other guys have gone beyond the pale. The current GOP are a mixture of bigots and fundies and the members who look the other way just to get a tax break or a more conservative judiciary. They are spineless and while they may wriggle a bit after the 2020 election, cutting off the head of the snake will hopefully get the Silent Majority back to being silent, because they are far too emboldened by the current misanthropic regime.
__________________
Ha! Foolmewunz has just been added to the list of people who aren't complete idiots. Hokulele

It's not that liberals have become less tolerant. It's that conservatives have become more intolerable.
Foolmewunz is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Back to Top
Old 30th January 2019, 03:45 AM   #545
Firestone
Proud Award Award recipient
 
Firestone's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Belgium
Posts: 2,068
LA Mayor Garcetti has decided to stay out of the race.

Quote:
Two-term Los Angeles Mayor Eric Garcetti ended months of speculation Tuesday evening about his 2020 intentions by announcing he won’t enter the ever-growing field of Democratic presidential candidates.
...
“I feel even more secure in my decision watching the field of candidates who are jumping into the race in 2020,” Garcetti said. He called them “friends, colleagues, even fellow mayors.”

https://www.cnbc.com/2019/01/30/la-m...ntial-run.html
__________________
The method of science is tried and true. It is not perfect, it's just the best we have. And to abandon it, with its skeptical protocols is the pathway to a dark age. -- Carl Sagan
Firestone is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Back to Top
Old 30th January 2019, 02:58 PM   #546
Travis
Misanthrope of the Mountains
 
Travis's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 23,993
Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
Alt Text: "I thought of another bad opinion! I couldn't find anyone who expressed it specifically, but still, the fact that I can so easily imagine it is infuriating! I'm gonna tell everyone about it!"

Believe it or not I'm not going out and searching for these things. I follow a mixture of mainstream pundits (Chris Hayes, Natasha Bertrand, etc) and some feminist activists. The comments I've referred to were all left on the most base middle of the road accounts just reporting stuff.



Seriously, find any twitter post about Kamala. Just about any from any major news outlet or major figure and read down the comments below. It isn't even hard to run into the things I'm talking about.


Originally Posted by Ziggurat View Post
Travis. Dude. Get the hell off social media. It isn't representative of reality, and it's making you miserable.

Considering all the relatives I have under age 22 spend about five hours a day on social media on phones....I think it is way more like the reality of the future than you may want to admit.


Originally Posted by angrysoba View Post
Although, now that you mention it, isnít there something in the idea that penal slave labour, especially given the way it tends to be performed by minority groups is something worth condemning and those who participate in the system?

Maybe the ďnosinessĒ of the Bernie Bros, if you mean those who investigate candidatesí background, is warranted.

There definitely is a discussion worth having. But, honestly, she was a progressive prosecutor that designed huge programs intended to keep people out of prison. People that ignore that because they desire some radical that just goes "throw the whole thing out, release all the prisoners!" is not realistic at all. And I'm tired of how they act as if her putting anyone in prison is the same as Stalin running huge gulag systems of political prisoners.


Originally Posted by kellyb View Post
None of my black friends trust Harris, and none are hoteps. LOL None are Bernie Bros, either.

Also, those criticisms you mentioned aren't saying Harris kept slaves.

The actual Bernie Bros aren't really weighing in on any of the dem candidates much yet as far as I can see. A couple have said Warren is "just like Clinton", but they don't seem to really care much either way.

You keep with better Bernie Bros than I do it seems. I have a guy on facebook who, in 2019, is still posting anti-Hillary memes. I mean just this week he posted something about Hillary being the most pro-Wall Street candidate in history.



Weirdly I met that guy in a dating group and friended him because he was at-the-time sharing some hilarious anti-Trump stuff. Then the convention happened, the Podesta emails were leaked and it was like he lost his mind and never came back down to reality.
__________________
"Because WE ARE IGNORANT OF 911 FACTS, WE DEMAND PROOF" -- Douglas Herman on Rense.com
Zingiber Officinale

Travis is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Back to Top
Old 30th January 2019, 03:41 PM   #547
dudalb
Penultimate Amazing
 
dudalb's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Sacramento
Posts: 44,646
Originally Posted by Stacko View Post
https://www.politico.com/amp/story/2...mpression=true

Who will the Maduro supporters vote for now?
I admit my first though when I read about her candidacy was "Tulsi Who?"
Let's face it, you need a certain amount of national public recongnition to have a realistic shot at a presendential nomination. Tulsi had almost none outside of Hawaii,
That her campaign is already melting down is proof she is a long way from being ready for prime time.
__________________
Pacifism is a shifty doctrine under which a man accepts the benefits of the social group without being willing to pay - and claims a halo for his dishonesty.

Robert Heinlein.

Last edited by dudalb; 30th January 2019 at 03:44 PM.
dudalb is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Back to Top
Old 30th January 2019, 03:46 PM   #548
dudalb
Penultimate Amazing
 
dudalb's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Sacramento
Posts: 44,646
Originally Posted by Firestone View Post
LA Mayor Garcetti has decided to stay out of the race.
Smart guy. He knows he needs to get a better national profile before having a realisitic chance of the nominatation.
__________________
Pacifism is a shifty doctrine under which a man accepts the benefits of the social group without being willing to pay - and claims a halo for his dishonesty.

Robert Heinlein.
dudalb is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Back to Top
Old 30th January 2019, 03:51 PM   #549
dudalb
Penultimate Amazing
 
dudalb's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Sacramento
Posts: 44,646
And whoever winds the nomination will do the classic shuffle: Go to the left in the primaries to win the hard core base,but once you got the nouminatin head to the center as quickly as possible.
__________________
Pacifism is a shifty doctrine under which a man accepts the benefits of the social group without being willing to pay - and claims a halo for his dishonesty.

Robert Heinlein.
dudalb is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Back to Top
Old 30th January 2019, 03:57 PM   #550
Dr. Keith
Not a doctor.
 
Dr. Keith's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Texas
Posts: 18,612
Originally Posted by dudalb View Post
And whoever winds the nomination will do the classic shuffle: Go to the left in the primaries to win the hard core base,but once you got the nouminatin head to the center as quickly as possible.
What to do about the spontaneous chants breaking out of "Lock him up!"
__________________
Suffering is not a punishment not a fruit of sin, it is a gift of God.
He allows us to share in His suffering and to make up for the sins of the world. -Mother Teresa

If I had a pet panda I would name it Snowflake.
Dr. Keith is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Back to Top
Old 30th January 2019, 04:01 PM   #551
dudalb
Penultimate Amazing
 
dudalb's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Sacramento
Posts: 44,646
IMHO worst thing Dems could do is try to imitate the Trump Campaign.
__________________
Pacifism is a shifty doctrine under which a man accepts the benefits of the social group without being willing to pay - and claims a halo for his dishonesty.

Robert Heinlein.
dudalb is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Back to Top
Old 30th January 2019, 06:47 PM   #552
angrysoba
Philosophile
 
angrysoba's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Osaka, Japan
Posts: 25,198
Originally Posted by dudalb View Post
IMHO worst thing Dems could do is try to imitate the Trump Campaign.
It worked for him.
__________________
"The thief and the murderer follow nature just as much as the philanthropist. Cosmic evolution may teach us how the good and the evil tendencies of man may have come about; but, in itself, it is incompetent to furnish any better reason why what we call good is preferable to what we call evil than we had before."

"Evolution and Ethics" T.H. Huxley (1893)
angrysoba is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Back to Top
Old 30th January 2019, 07:47 PM   #553
Belz...
Fiend God
 
Belz...'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: In the details
Posts: 83,937
Originally Posted by Travis View Post
Believe it or not I'm not going out and searching for these things.
I don't believe you.
__________________
Master of the Shining Darkness

"My views are nonsense. So what?" - BobTheCoward


Belz... is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Back to Top
Old 30th January 2019, 07:55 PM   #554
kellyb
Penultimate Amazing
 
kellyb's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 11,268
Originally Posted by dudalb View Post
And whoever winds the nomination will do the classic shuffle: Go to the left in the primaries to win the hard core base,but once you got the nouminatin head to the center as quickly as possible.
Neither Warren nor Sanders would do that. But yeah, I'd expect something like that out of most/all of the others. The party "establishment" is still center-right.

This is why democrats will keep on losing, by the way, until the fake-progressives are gone. A majority of self-identifying moderates don't exactly love voting for the team who's obviously full of poo.

Things are no different today than they were back when...
https://www.trumanlibrary.org/public...x.php?pid=1296

Quote:
You can always count on the Republicans, in an election year, to remind the people of what the Republican Party really stands for. You can always count on them to make it perfectly clear before the campaign is over that the Republican Party is the party of big business, and that they would like to turn the country back to the big corporations and the big bankers in New York to run it as they see fit.
Quote:
The people don't want a phony Democrat. If it's a choice between a genuine Republican, and a Republican in Democratic clothing, the people will choose the genuine article, every time; that is, they will take a Republican before they will a phony Democrat, and I don't want any phony Democratic candidates in this campaign.
__________________
The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, and wiser people so full of doubts ~ Bertrand Russell
I am proud to say that Henry Kissinger is not my friend.

Last edited by kellyb; 30th January 2019 at 07:58 PM.
kellyb is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Back to Top
Old 30th January 2019, 11:57 PM   #555
Firestone
Proud Award Award recipient
 
Firestone's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Belgium
Posts: 2,068
Originally Posted by dudalb View Post
Smart guy. He knows he needs to get a better national profile before having a realisitic chance of the nominatation.
Yep.

Clearly he had better (or more honest) advisers than Schultz.

Originally Posted by kellyb View Post
Neither Warren nor Sanders would do that. But yeah, I'd expect something like that out of most/all of the others. The party "establishment" is still center-right.

This is why democrats will keep on losing, by the way, until the fake-progressives are gone. A majority of self-identifying moderates don't exactly love voting for the team who's obviously full of poo.

Things are no different today than they were back when...
https://www.trumanlibrary.org/public...x.php?pid=1296
Fun fact: the three last elected Democratic presidents (and the five last Democratic candidates who won the popular vote) were moderates.
__________________
The method of science is tried and true. It is not perfect, it's just the best we have. And to abandon it, with its skeptical protocols is the pathway to a dark age. -- Carl Sagan

Last edited by Firestone; 31st January 2019 at 12:03 AM.
Firestone is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Back to Top
Old 31st January 2019, 12:43 AM   #556
kellyb
Penultimate Amazing
 
kellyb's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 11,268
Originally Posted by Firestone View Post
Fun fact: the three last elected Democratic presidents (and the five last Democratic candidates who won the popular vote) were moderates.
In 2008, Obama ran as a "far left" progressive, tho. He said he was a fan of single payer, and even said "when you spread the wealth around, it's good for everybody."
__________________
The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, and wiser people so full of doubts ~ Bertrand Russell
I am proud to say that Henry Kissinger is not my friend.
kellyb is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Back to Top
Old 31st January 2019, 02:21 AM   #557
Parsman
Muse
 
Parsman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Bonnie Scotland
Posts: 671
Same in the UK historically. Labour runs left then governs centre-right. Trick the voters then cosy up to business in London and the South East. Perhaps the only surprise is that people keep falling for it so that we effectively have a one party system with two branches.
__________________
I was not; I have been; I am not; I am content - Epicurus

When you're dead you don't know that you're dead, all the pain is felt by others....................the same thing happens when you're stupid.
Parsman is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Back to Top
Old 31st January 2019, 03:42 AM   #558
Foolmewunz
Grammar Resistance Leader
TLA Dictator
 
Foolmewunz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Pattaya, Thailand
Posts: 41,146
Originally Posted by Parsman View Post
Same in the UK historically. Labour runs left then governs centre-right. Trick the voters then cosy up to business in London and the South East. Perhaps the only surprise is that people keep falling for it so that we effectively have a one party system with two branches.
We had that in the US when there was a moderate wing to the GOP. Names that many are familiar with for their liberal if not progressive policies were all Republicans. John Lindsay, George(Mitt's dad) Romney, Bill Scranton, Jake Javits, Nelson Rockefeller, Charles Percy, Mark Hatfield, .... amongst others.

Those names are mostly gone but the few moderate names in the party show up only when there's discussion of the few possible Senate votes that might go against the administration. They are not a force and have no leader. From 1950 to even the Nixon/Carter elections there wasn't that much difference between the two parties. They gussied up their campaign promises but they were basically both following the same agenda with minor bumps in the road (the Vietnam War was originally a Democratic war and the GOP didn't say a thing about it; when the public sentiment changed and a large segment of the Dems got behind the anti-war movement, the GOP stepped up to be the Warrior Party.

All of that changed with the advent of the right wing coalition of fundies, money grubbers (tax cuts) and right to lifers. It didn't happen overnight, but by dribs and drabs from the late Nixon years through to present day.

In short, I used to joke about voting with Mark Twain's possibly apocryphal quote: "Oh, I don't vote. It only encourages them." The Dems may have very little substance worth voting for but the Dems as foils to the totally reprehensible current GOP? They get my vote.
__________________
Ha! Foolmewunz has just been added to the list of people who aren't complete idiots. Hokulele

It's not that liberals have become less tolerant. It's that conservatives have become more intolerable.
Foolmewunz is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Back to Top
Old 31st January 2019, 05:57 AM   #559
Delphic Oracle
Illuminator
 
Delphic Oracle's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2016
Posts: 3,375
Originally Posted by dudalb View Post
IMHO worst thing Dems could do is try to imitate the Trump Campaign.
No, but it's a close second to doing the same ho-hum of running away from every policy the Republicans cast shade on while spouting a forgettable series of cites from the most recent Harvard study about whatever it is we were talking about at the time.
Delphic Oracle is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Back to Top
Old 31st January 2019, 06:24 AM   #560
kellyb
Penultimate Amazing
 
kellyb's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 11,268
Originally Posted by Foolmewunz View Post
We had that in the US when there was a moderate wing to the GOP. Names that many are familiar with for their liberal if not progressive policies were all Republicans. John Lindsay, George(Mitt's dad) Romney, Bill Scranton, Jake Javits, Nelson Rockefeller, Charles Percy, Mark Hatfield, .... amongst others.

Those names are mostly gone but the few moderate names in the party show up only when there's discussion of the few possible Senate votes that might go against the administration. They are not a force and have no leader. From 1950 to even the Nixon/Carter elections there wasn't that much difference between the two parties. They gussied up their campaign promises but they were basically both following the same agenda with minor bumps in the road (the Vietnam War was originally a Democratic war and the GOP didn't say a thing about it; when the public sentiment changed and a large segment of the Dems got behind the anti-war movement, the GOP stepped up to be the Warrior Party.

All of that changed with the advent of the right wing coalition of fundies, money grubbers (tax cuts) and right to lifers. It didn't happen overnight, but by dribs and drabs from the late Nixon years through to present day.

In short, I used to joke about voting with Mark Twain's possibly apocryphal quote: "Oh, I don't vote. It only encourages them." The Dems may have very little substance worth voting for but the Dems as foils to the totally reprehensible current GOP? They get my vote.
Ha! I hadn't really thought of it like that before, but I guess you're right. Now that the GOP has morphed into a Peoples Temple-Cthulhu chimera entity, we do, in fact, have a 2 party system again!
__________________
The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, and wiser people so full of doubts ~ Bertrand Russell
I am proud to say that Henry Kissinger is not my friend.
kellyb is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Back to Top
Closed Thread

International Skeptics Forum » General Topics » USA Politics

Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 11:35 AM.
Powered by vBulletin. Copyright ©2000 - 2019, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.

This forum began as part of the James Randi Education Foundation (JREF). However, the forum now exists as
an independent entity with no affiliation with or endorsement by the JREF, including the section in reference to "JREF" topics.

Disclaimer: Messages posted in the Forum are solely the opinion of their authors.