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Tags defamation cases , lawsuits , media criticism , Nathan Phillips , Nick Sandmann , protest incidents , racism charges

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Old 22nd January 2019, 04:42 AM   #481
smartcooky
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Originally Posted by baron View Post
Then don't quote me, disagree then pretend you didn't. Everyone can see you're lying so don't do it.
'K, whatever


ETA: there, I fixed for you, you poor, delicate little snowflake!
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Old 22nd January 2019, 04:46 AM   #482
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Originally Posted by Travis View Post
Where the kids wear blackface to basketball games.
I had never heard of a "blackout game" before, but apparently it's a thing. You can google it.



Ahhh…..modern America.

Five religious lunatics, a busload of teenagers, and a Native American elder who takes himself very, very, seriously come together for a few minutes in a public space, and millions of dollars of advertising dollars are spent as people click on images of seven year old basketball games while trying to prove a point.


Meanwhile, a guy's wedding is messed up, even though he has absolutely no connection to the story.


And of course, this is America after all, so we have to get lawyers involved. Yes, the lawsuits are coming, or at least threatened. Nick Sandmann is by no definition a public figure, and he has clearly suffered harm as a result of the reporting on his actions, or more accurately his non-actions. Interesting test case possibly coming up.
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Old 22nd January 2019, 04:47 AM   #483
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Originally Posted by smartcooky View Post
Called out on your racism, so you double down on it?

'K
There are definite racists in this thread. Skeptic Tank and Captain Howdy embrace the term as far as I remember. So too does Baylor, IIRC.
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Old 22nd January 2019, 04:50 AM   #484
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Originally Posted by Meadmaker View Post
And of course, this is America after all, so we have to get lawyers involved. Yes, the lawsuits are coming, or at least threatened. Nick Sandmann is by no definition a public figure, and he has clearly suffered harm as a result of the reporting on his actions, or more accurately his non-actions. Interesting test case possibly coming up.
The difficult bit is deciding who to sue first. The defamation of character by Lying Wolf. The false reporting and slurs by multiple media outlets. The calls to violence and death threats by the Twitter leftists. The list goes on and on.
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Old 22nd January 2019, 05:03 AM   #485
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Originally Posted by baron View Post
EFA
Maybe Taunto works too, given his baiting of the kids.
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Old 22nd January 2019, 05:13 AM   #486
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Originally Posted by The Big Dog View Post
Sure there is, start with the OP, And then see all the people repeating lies about the kids, or derailing the discussion in a desperate attempt to avoid acknowledging criticism.

Lots of ways people can express this sentiment and they have.

Plus the broader resistance? Oh **** yeah, they are fawning all over this scum bag.
I'll grant you one. You should address your comments to that individual and stop making stuff up. Your brush is broad to the point of self-parody.
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Old 22nd January 2019, 05:21 AM   #487
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Originally Posted by baron View Post
Pots and kettles.
Can you really accuse Joe of being partisan? I think not.

Quote:
I personally haven't come at it from any political side.
I don't think he was targetting you personally.
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Old 22nd January 2019, 05:31 AM   #488
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Originally Posted by baron View Post
You mean like the Guardian? I didn't even have to use Google, I knew very well what I'd find; an article vilifying the kids based on proven lies, detailing other groups and individuals who had also vilified them, and not a single mention of the racist, homophobic, violence-promoting hate preachers.
Wow the Grauniad sure dropped the ball on this one.

Originally Posted by varwoche View Post
Moreover, I don't know that the Guardian is a left wing publication.
It's well know that it is. That doesn't necessarily speak to their usual accuracy, but you should take that into consideration when reading their articles.
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Old 22nd January 2019, 05:39 AM   #489
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Originally Posted by The Big Dog View Post
From the Occupy Democrats facebook page, a deliberate doxxing project for a group of high schoolers
I'm sure they're very proud of themselves, putting other people's lives in danger.

This is what happens when some convince themselves that their opponents are enemies, scum, or worse, and that violence is justified because of some twisted idea of self-defense.

Despicable.

Originally Posted by plague311 View Post
I don't care, so it doesn't matter to me. That's for sure.
I'd even say that it's tautological.
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Old 22nd January 2019, 05:42 AM   #490
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Originally Posted by thaiboxerken View Post
The tomahawk chop, chanting and the whooping are racist reactions to the Native Americans. You can choose to deny it, but that's all you are doing, denying the truth. Their behavior is as bad as wearing blackface.

And yes, the tomahawk chop and chant at the Chiefs game is racist.
At the rally in the OP, it sure could be seen as ridicule. But at a sport event, or even kids playing, is it racist then? There is no message of being inferior attached to it. Quite the contrary, there is a connotation of strength and power. Much like if kids, or adults for that matter, play at being cowboys.
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Old 22nd January 2019, 05:42 AM   #491
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Trump Tweets

Nick Sandmann and the students of Covington have become symbols of Fake News and how evil it can be. They have captivated the attention of the world, and I know they will use it for the good - maybe even to bring people together. It started off unpleasant, but can end in a dream!
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Old 22nd January 2019, 05:47 AM   #492
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Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
Your hyperbolic misrepresentation of what I said does not surprise me. It's rather par for the course for you. But we can agree on one thing you said:
Hyperbolic, perhaps. But what you said was clear: the actual hateful message was so obviously evil and despicable that it's not worth mentioning, while the much less egregious "crime" of the youngsters deserves mention. It's clearly what you meant, too, because you repeated it in a subsequent post to this one.

Originally Posted by sir drinks-a-lot View Post
Ah, but you see, the black guys have _reason_ to be angry. That makes it ok.

Originally Posted by Bogative View Post
"Honest question. Have you ever seen a more punchable face than this kid’s?"

Reza Aslan – CNN
You know, I wasn't a fan of Aslan before reading that but that's positively disgusting. Hell, I think I'm actually offended. That doesn't happen often.
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Old 22nd January 2019, 05:53 AM   #493
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Originally Posted by plague311 View Post
This thread has lived out it's usefulness.
Yeah it was super relevant when white teens wearing MAGA hats were disrespecting a native by smiling, but now that they're getting death threats I guess the story's lost its spice, right?

Originally Posted by CaptainHowdy View Post
Just like saying Black Lives Matter isn't explicitly racist but it insinuates that other lives don't matter, which sounds racist to me.
Nonsense. If I say that health is important, it doesn't mean or imply that nothing else is. You're reaching.

Quote:
"Make America Great Again" means just that.
Then you haven't been paying attention to the context in which it's been used.
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Old 22nd January 2019, 06:01 AM   #494
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Originally Posted by thaiboxerken View Post
I just did. I can't see any justification for the racist way that the MAGA kids acted. Hooting and hollering like apes at the black people? Really?! Making fun of the Native Americans?

Yes, the Black Isrealites were saying toxic things, but the racist response to them isn't right.
True but I find it odd that the latter group is getting so much more hate and attention, up to and including death threats, while the BI are essentially getting the "well, boys will be boys" shrug.

Originally Posted by BobTheCoward View Post
I have no interest in debating you on this as I have no interest in convincing you to my side. You asked if it was racism, I said yes. That is all you need.
Yeah, who'd want to discuss stuff on a discussion forum.

Oh, right. That's not why you're here.
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Old 22nd January 2019, 06:13 AM   #495
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Originally Posted by Bogative View Post
Yeah, I will need more than you jumping to conclusions based on zero evidence and only your presumptions, thanks for not trying to convince me because I'm not interested.

Several major media news outlets tried to convince me there was a group of racist teenagers harassing a native American over the weekend based on the color of their skin and the hats they were wearing. Didn't work then, won't work now.
I thought your question was a survey of what people thought.
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Old 22nd January 2019, 06:20 AM   #496
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Here's a video of those innocent maga kids allegedly harassing a girl and her friends.

https://www.indy100.com/article/maga...-video-8739981

Those innocent little rascals.

Also, Belz, get over yourself. I never made a big deal out of this before it was shown what happened. I waited for everything to come out.

If you want to try to call me out get your ******* facts straight. Thanks.
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Old 22nd January 2019, 06:20 AM   #497
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Originally Posted by Belz... View Post
True but I find it odd that the latter group is getting so much more hate and attention, up to and including death threats, while the BI are essentially getting the "well, boys will be boys" shrug.
I don't think its a "boys will be boys" situation. The BI have no political power, no economical power, and no power to oppress.

The MAGA teens, however, are part of a large cult of people who have control of the White House and Republican party. They are the greater threat to society.
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Old 22nd January 2019, 06:24 AM   #498
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Originally Posted by thaiboxerken View Post
I don't think its a "boys will be boys" situation. The BI have no political power, no economical power, and no power to oppress.

The MAGA teens, however, are part of a large cult of people who have control of the White House and Republican party. They are the greater threat to society.
Oh, come on. They're kids. You're treating them like an extension of Trump himself. And what they did and said is nowhere near as hateful and egregious as the BI people. There is no excuse for the latter's behaviour.

ETA: In other words it seems the crime of these kids is being on the wrong tribe.
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Old 22nd January 2019, 06:28 AM   #499
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Originally Posted by Belz... View Post
Oh, come on. They're kids. You're treating them like an extension of Trump himself. And what they did and said is nowhere near as hateful and egregious as the BI people. There is no excuse for the latter's behaviour.
No, they are threatening. Teenage Nazis are still Nazis.
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Old 22nd January 2019, 06:29 AM   #500
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My phone is acting up so I can't quote it, but someone above said the MAGA kid is 'by no definition a public figure'. I disagree: once someone voluntarily engages in political confrontations in public they become public figures, at least so far as being newsworthy. It's not as if he were quietly at home having political opinions. He engaged strangers, in public, over politics.

Naturally (although this sentence will be ignored) that doesn't mean he deserves whatever results from this ridiculous contretemps; I'm just pointing out that the expectation of privacy doesn't extend when one gets into political confrontations in public.
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Old 22nd January 2019, 06:30 AM   #501
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Old 22nd January 2019, 06:30 AM   #502
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Originally Posted by thaiboxerken View Post
I just did. I can't see any justification for the racist way that the MAGA kids acted. Hooting and hollering like apes at the black people? Really?! Making fun of the Native Americans?

Yes, the Black Isrealites were saying toxic things, but the racist response to them isn't right.
i believe the dance they were doing is called the "sumo"....
YouTube Video This video is not hosted by the ISF. The ISF can not be held responsible for the suitability or legality of this material. By clicking the link below you agree to view content from an external website.
I AGREE

46 seconds into the video

now there is the choice of colour theme....

but also included in the video is all the other themes they've done
braveheart
grade school
jersey
white out
beach
christmas
toga
buisness man
nerd
hunting
blackout
and blueout

you might beable to say they're just hollaring like apes but i dont think its racist
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Old 22nd January 2019, 06:32 AM   #503
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Originally Posted by Belz... View Post
Yeah, who'd want to discuss stuff on a discussion forum.

Oh, right. That's not why you're here.
My reason is actually different this time. Reread bogative's post. Bogative's was making an argument that the tomahawk chop was not racist because it is context sensitive. The strategy to prove it was context sensitive was by surveying or asking rhetorically if it was racist in a separate context.

I said yes.

Bogative tried to change the subject by saying I made a claim. It is an attempt to escape the fact that bogative's point was invalidated.
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Old 22nd January 2019, 06:37 AM   #504
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Originally Posted by thaiboxerken View Post
No, they are threatening. Teenage Nazis are still Nazis.
Ken, again, come on. They're not Nazis.
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Old 22nd January 2019, 06:39 AM   #505
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Originally Posted by Belz... View Post
Ken, again, come on. They're not Nazis.
Yes, they are. The MAGA hats prove it.
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Old 22nd January 2019, 06:40 AM   #506
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Originally Posted by thaiboxerken View Post
I don't think its a "boys will be boys" situation. The BI have no political power, no economical power, and no power to oppress.

The MAGA teens, however, are part of a large cult of people who have control of the White House and Republican party. They are the greater threat to society.
I see you've dropped the broad brush and moved up to a paint sprayer.
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Old 22nd January 2019, 06:43 AM   #507
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Originally Posted by Mike! View Post
I see you've given up the broad brush and moved up to a paint sprayer.
Broad generalization isn't a fallacy if it is true.
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Old 22nd January 2019, 06:43 AM   #508
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Originally Posted by TragicMonkey View Post
My phone is acting up so I can't quote it, but someone above said the MAGA kid is 'by no definition a public figure'. I disagree: once someone voluntarily engages in political confrontations in public they become public figures, at least so far as being newsworthy. It's not as if he were quietly at home having political opinions. He engaged strangers, in public, over politics.

Naturally (although this sentence will be ignored) that doesn't mean he deserves whatever results from this ridiculous contretemps; I'm just pointing out that the expectation of privacy doesn't extend when one gets into political confrontations in public.
I agree with the point you're trying to make, but I do want to offer... not a counter point but a... counter clarification if that makes any sense.

Earlier in this thread (I think it was Angrysoba but I'm not 100% sure, mea culpa if I am wrong) brought up the point that at least the people... got outside and talked to people in the real world something a lot of people would do good to try every once and while.

I'm not going to address who was in the right or in the wrong or who belong to what tribe so the points can be accurately tallied up and added to the scoreboard. That's all "Arguing the narrative" nonsense. There is no such thing as "the narrative." Reality is the story, it doesn't have a separate and distinct story being told on top of it.

While you are accurate that... the expectation of privacy does change when you choose to speak in the public space in the more abstract... we should be encouraging face to face encounters like this to a degree.

Other option is we all stay in our bubbles getting drip feed a constant stream out personalized outrage by the algorithm to the point where you get to be Travis where your answer to the Trolley Problem is "Mercy kill everyone on both tracks so they don't have to suffer living in a world where people who wear red hats exist" and I don't see that a preferable to a couple of real world screaming matches.
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Old 22nd January 2019, 06:45 AM   #509
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Originally Posted by thaiboxerken View Post
Yes, they are. The MAGA hats prove it.
You must be joking.

Are you doing an impression of an extremist left-winger, here?
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Old 22nd January 2019, 06:48 AM   #510
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I'll say one thing for this thread, it's certainly separated the reactionaries from the critical thinkers in short order.
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Old 22nd January 2019, 06:48 AM   #511
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Originally Posted by thaiboxerken View Post
Broad generalization isn't a fallacy if it is true.
If.

I'll echo whas Joe said: Take care not to become Travis.
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Old 22nd January 2019, 06:48 AM   #512
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Originally Posted by plague311 View Post
Here's a video of those innocent maga kids allegedly harassing a girl and her friends.

https://www.indy100.com/article/maga...-video-8739981

Those innocent little rascals.
There is literally 2 hours of video of the actual interaction. But an 8 second video of kids that might be from that school yelling out incoherently while girls pass definitely proves they must have initiated the issue with the black and Native American men. That's just math.
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Old 22nd January 2019, 06:50 AM   #513
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Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
I agree with the point you're trying to make, but I do want to offer... not a counter point but a... counter clarification if that makes any sense.

Earlier in this thread (I think it was Angrysoba but I'm not 100% sure, mea culpa if I am wrong) brought up the point that at least the people... got outside and talked to people in the real world something a lot of people would do good to try every once and while.

I'm not going to address who was in the right or in the wrong or who belong to what tribe so the points can be accurately tallied up and added to the scoreboard. That's all "Arguing the narrative" nonsense. There is no such thing as "the narrative." Reality is the story, it doesn't have a separate and distinct story being told on top of it.

While you are accurate that... the expectation of privacy does change when you choose to speak in the public space in the more abstract... we should be encouraging face to face encounters like this to a degree.

Other option is we all stay in our bubbles getting drip feed a constant stream out personalized outrage by the algorithm to the point where you get to be Travis where your answer to the Trolley Problem is "Mercy kill everyone on both tracks so they don't have to suffer living in a world where people who wear red hats exist" and I don't see that a preferable to a couple of real world screaming matches.
I would say talking to people of different views can be beneficial, but I wouldn't classify anything involving chanting, drumbeating, or rhythmic gestures as a genuine attempt to engage in dialogue. Those are displays of held opinions, not invitations to dialogue or a signal of openness to hearing other ideas.
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Old 22nd January 2019, 06:51 AM   #514
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Originally Posted by Belz... View Post
You must be joking.

Are you doing an impression of an extremist left-winger, here?
No. They only reason they aren't full Nazi is because they don't quite have the political power. It's not stopping them from trying, with the concentration camps at the border, imprisonment of a journalist, marginalization of non-white people and demonization of anyone that isn't them.
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Old 22nd January 2019, 06:52 AM   #515
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Originally Posted by Belz... View Post
I'll echo whas Joe said: Take care not to become Travis.
Sometimes the extremiest are handy reminders for the rest of us to keep things in perspective.
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Old 22nd January 2019, 06:53 AM   #516
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Originally Posted by thaiboxerken View Post
No. They only reason they aren't full Nazi is because they don't quite have the political power. It's not stopping them from trying, with the concentration camps at the border, imprisonment of a journalist, marginalization of non-white people and demonization of anyone that isn't them.
I think you have these kids confused with someone else.

Originally Posted by TragicMonkey View Post
Sometimes the extremiest are handy reminders for the rest of us to keep things in perspective.
Agreed.
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Old 22nd January 2019, 06:53 AM   #517
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Here's the thing.

Nobody is really acting like they believe "Any level of Trump supports is logically and morally equivalent to being a literal Nazi." They say it because in the "Lookit how outraged (and therefore better) then you I am" game, that's like a Royal Flush, but the don't actually believe. It's just a thing the say to show cause purity.

Right before the Mid-terms David Wong said it really well:

Quote:
I spent every Sunday growing up hearing that the Apocalypse was imminent -- within the year, maybe within the month or the hour. I would call the congregation "doomsday preppers," but here's the thing: They weren't prepping at all. They talked like the apocalypse was coming, describing in chilling detail how soon, the godless government would start beheading Christians. But they weren't spending their spare time stocking water, canned goods, or fuel. They walked out of those sermons about the impending starvation and pestilence and then went home to watch the Chicago Bears.

I don't think they were lying about their beliefs; it's just that those beliefs didn't exist anywhere outside of their skulls. They certainly didn't extend to their feet, which could have carried them to the hardware store to get water purification pills and a [crap]ton of batteries. They never propelled them to the library to study insurgency and guerrilla tactics. They believed the climactic battle with Satan was at hand, but they didn't believe it.

I'm bringing this up now because today I can open up my Twitter feed and see a meme about how only guns and guillotines will end the Trumpocalypse, followed minutes later by that exact same user lavishing praise on Red Dead Redemption 2. ("I'm 70 hours in and barely scratched the surface!")

So now, on the eve of a vote that can reverse the tide of history, I'm curious to see. All that talk for the last two years about how we're living under the new Hitler, do people really believe it? Or is it just, like, a thing we say?
"Red Hat = Nazi" or similar are just... peacock feathers and serve the same purpose.
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Old 22nd January 2019, 06:54 AM   #518
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Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
Here's the thing.

Nobody is really acting like they believe "Any level of Trump supports is logically and morally equivalent to being a literal Nazi." They say it because in the "Lookit how outraged (and therefore better) then you I am" game, that's like a Royal Flush, but the don't actually believe. It's just a thing the say to show cause purity.
A sort of virtue signaling, then. I know a lot of people on both sides of the aisle do that quite a bit here.
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Old 22nd January 2019, 06:54 AM   #519
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I'm hardly extreme. I'm just calling it as it is. MAGA people need to be called out for their Nazi-like behavior, whether they are teenagers or not.

The doxxing of these kids is disturbing. I think they simply should be called out and denounced as the hateful idiots that they are.
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Old 22nd January 2019, 06:55 AM   #520
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Originally Posted by thaiboxerken View Post
No. They only reason they aren't full Nazi is because they don't quite have the political power. It's not stopping them from trying, with the concentration camps at the border, imprisonment of a journalist, marginalization of non-white people and demonization of anyone that isn't them.
So when do you suggest the mercy killings should start?
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