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Tags defamation cases , lawsuits , media criticism , Nathan Phillips , Nick Sandmann , protest incidents , racism charges

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Old 22nd January 2019, 08:09 AM   #561
Meadmaker
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Originally Posted by BobTheCoward View Post
I don't want to talk about fake native American chanting is racist right now, and will settle for a discussion on it being messed up.

I think Seminole tribe chants have lyrics. They are going to appropriate a music tradition and just replace lyrics with meaningless sounds? Its like singing a Chinese song using the words ching chong Bing bong.

But I can't rule out that there are just millions of people out there that think a style of music they don't understand the words of doesn't have any words.
I don't know about Seminoles, and I don't understand the connection. The song Nathan Phillips was singing is not connected to a specific tribe, and the syllables in it are not words in any language.
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Old 22nd January 2019, 08:09 AM   #562
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Originally Posted by plague311 View Post
lol what? A real threat?
Doxxing someone is a real threat. It's telling people "hey, this is where they live." If you don't see the implicit threat there, then I don't know how else to explain it to you. It's the reason doing that on this forum would get you banned.

Quote:
Was something actually done?
No, that would be beyond a threat, by definition.

Quote:
The right threatens the left regularly and I don't bother with that **** either. Good God, what a weird appeal to emotion.
What's odd is your characterisation of my posts. First I had to get over myself, even though I didn't mention myself at all in the post in question, and now I'm appealing to emotion while pointing out that death threats have been directed towards these teens, who have also been doxxed. Where's the appeal to emotion, outside of the trivial fact that all human actions are based on emotion?
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Old 22nd January 2019, 08:09 AM   #563
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Originally Posted by Thermal View Post
Cliff notes version: Anti-abortion rally in DC. Kids showed up in MAGAwear as from a Catholic school. The Black Israelites also were demonstrating and picked a fight with the kids, hurling insults and stuff. The Native American contingent walked up into the middle of the kids and chanted and beat a drum in one of the kid's faces. He stood still smiling (taunting? awkward?). The kids were being loud and pretty obnoxious the whole time.
You missed the part where the race grifter NOPE'd right away from confronting the actual hate group.

Lied about the situation.

Cried about it while defending the actual hate group as "prey"

and then the kids were subjected to doxxing, threats including death threats
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Old 22nd January 2019, 08:11 AM   #564
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Originally Posted by ahhell View Post
I am unconvinced that it is.



Thanks, this confirms one thing at least, I will continue to be disappointed in the level of certainty expressed by various folks.
What stood out for me was the knee-jerk reporting. I first heard that the boys surrounded the Native Americans and taunted them. Reminds me of a LWB thread, where the white guys are de facto presumed to be the aggressors.
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Old 22nd January 2019, 08:12 AM   #565
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Originally Posted by Belz... View Post
Doxxing someone is a real threat. It's telling people "hey, this is where they live." If you don't see the implicit threat there, then I don't know how else to explain it to you.







No, that would be beyond a threat, by definition.







What's odd is your characterisation of my posts. First I had to get over myself, even though I didn't mention myself at all in the post in question, and now I'm appealing to emotion while pointing out that death threats have been directed towards these teens, who have also been doxxed. Where's the appeal to emotion, outside of the trivial fact that all human actions are based on emotion?
Did someone not post a link to a site literally filing FOIA requests on Phillips?

I said get over yourself because you implied something that wasn't my claim or any that I had made. Then you doubled down on it for some random reason.

Doxxing sucks, again, something that literally both sides don't just do but are doing in this specific instance. Hence my personal lack of butthurt.
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Last edited by plague311; 22nd January 2019 at 08:13 AM.
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Old 22nd January 2019, 08:15 AM   #566
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Originally Posted by The Big Dog View Post
You missed the part where the race grifter NOPE'd right away from confronting the actual hate group.

Lied about the situation.

Cried about it while defending the actual hate group as "prey"

and then the kids were subjected to doxxing, threats including death threats
Whoo hoo!

Anyone in a situation like this ends up subject to doxxing and threats by their opponents. It's wrong, and I think kids should be across the board left out of that. But Sandmann spoke to the press willingly, and gave his name.
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Old 22nd January 2019, 08:15 AM   #567
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Originally Posted by plague311 View Post
Did someone not post a link to a site literally filing FOIA requests on Phillips?
I don't follow. What do you mean?

Quote:
I said get over yourself because you implied something that wasn't my claim or any that I had made.
Which, again, makes no sense. You tell someone to get over themselves when they pretend to be better or more important than they actually are, or are trying to be the center of attention. That has absolutely nothing to do with my post.

Quote:
Doxxing sucks, again, something that literally both sides don't just do but are doing in this specific instance. Hence my personal lack of butthurt.
Doxxing not only sucks, Plague, it puts lives at risk. I would think you'd at least care a bit about that... unless you agree with Ken that, being literal Nazis, those kids are not worth the effort.
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Old 22nd January 2019, 08:18 AM   #568
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Originally Posted by Belz... View Post
I don't follow. What do you mean?







Which, again, makes no sense. You tell someone to get over themselves when they pretend to be better or more important than they actually are, or are trying to be the center of attention. That has absolutely nothing to do with my post.







Doxxing not only sucks, Plague, it puts lives at risk. I would think you'd at least care a bit about that... unless you agree with Ken that, being literal Nazis, those kids are not worth the effort.
Doxxing sucks if you're trying to hide your identity.

This kid said repeatedly that he new cameras where there, and he gave his name to the paper. Doxxing requires a desire to be anonymous, right? Unless you have a different definition than I do.

Has he been doxxed? Address and all? I saw his mom came out and spoke as well. Sounds like they're trying to get attention.

WRT the FOIA, there is a site that filed for Nathan Philips history in the military, etc. By your definition, that's doxxing.
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Last edited by plague311; 22nd January 2019 at 08:21 AM.
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Old 22nd January 2019, 08:20 AM   #569
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Originally Posted by plague311 View Post
Here's a video of those innocent maga kids allegedly harassing a girl and her friends.

https://www.indy100.com/article/maga...-video-8739981

Those innocent little rascals.

Also, Belz, get over yourself. I never made a big deal out of this before it was shown what happened. I waited for everything to come out.

If you want to try to call me out get your ******* facts straight. Thanks.
Originally Posted by plague311 View Post
Considering I wasn't making the claim he is trying to say I am making, what would you call it? I'm excited to hear.
Perhaps you could clarify what you meant with the first post. It certainly seems as though you imply they were in some way at fault based on a rather short video of those kids yelling something.
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Old 22nd January 2019, 08:21 AM   #570
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Originally Posted by plague311 View Post
Doxxing requires a desire to be anonymous, right?
No. It only requires a desire to have some information remain private (such as physical address, phone number, etc), which applies to almost everyone including public personalities.
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Old 22nd January 2019, 08:22 AM   #571
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Originally Posted by Thermal View Post
Cliff notes version: Anti-abortion rally in DC. Kids showed up in MAGAwear as from a Catholic school. The Black Israelites also were demonstrating and picked a fight with the kids, hurling insults and stuff. The Native American contingent walked up into the middle of the kids and chanted and beat a drum in one of the kid's faces. He stood still smiling (taunting? awkward?). The kids were being loud and pretty obnoxious the whole time.
Yup. It's worth noting though, the kids were transported to the rally by their Catholic school -- it was a school activity. The school has a lot to answer for. Why are they allowing kids to wear highly provocative symbols to an event like this? And why did they toss the kids under the school bus at the drop of a hat? Their actions helped fuel the media reporting.

The fact that tax dollars help fund these religious schools is another matter.
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Old 22nd January 2019, 08:22 AM   #572
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Originally Posted by ahhell View Post
Perhaps you could clarify what you meant with the first post. It certainly seems as though you imply they were in some way at fault based on a rather short video of those kids yelling something.
"At fault" and "show behavior described by others" are completely different. I've been very careful to point out I think all parties are "at fault". Not one is free from all blame.
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Old 22nd January 2019, 08:22 AM   #573
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Originally Posted by Shalamar View Post
Just like SkepticTank's outlook and mode of thought is widespread on the right.



Good Talk.
There are a lot of people on this forum who unabashedly use the same kind of rhetoric as Travis and Ken. ST is the only only person around here who talks like ST.
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Old 22nd January 2019, 08:23 AM   #574
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Originally Posted by Thermal View Post
Anyone in a situation like this ends up subject to doxxing and threats by their opponents. It's wrong, and I think kids should be across the board left out of that. But Sandmann spoke to the press willingly, and gave his name.
Doxxing generally goes well beyond just someone's name. And giving the press your name doesn't constitute permission to publish other personal information.
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Old 22nd January 2019, 08:24 AM   #575
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Originally Posted by plague311 View Post
Did... did you read the article? It's not meant to say anything other than those that are saying these innocent maga kids were perfectly behaved, read any of TBD's posts if you're confused, and that there was no chance they chanted dumb Trump slogans isn't entirely proven.

My whole point in this thread was that EVERYONE involved is to blame, as much as people can be. It was non violent so to me this isn't the end of the world.
Ok. Got it.

Yeah, lots of people want to say "Four legs good. Two legs bad." In this situation, but that really doesn't make any sense here.
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Old 22nd January 2019, 08:24 AM   #576
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Originally Posted by Thermal View Post
Whoo hoo!

Anyone in a situation like this ends up subject to doxxing and threats by their opponents. It's wrong, and I think kids should be across the board left out of that. But Sandmann spoke to the press willingly, and gave his name.
It was not limited to Sandmann, it included all of the kids including juveniles and threats to shoot up their school among other death threats.

All because Elder Phillips thought he would get more mileage out of confronting the kids rather than the ACTUAL HATE GROUP.

Big win for the actual hate group though.
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Old 22nd January 2019, 08:24 AM   #577
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Originally Posted by Ziggurat View Post
No. It only requires a desire to have some information remain private (such as physical address, phone number, etc), which applies to almost everyone including public personalities.
...and? Was he doxxed?

In fact, was anyone "doxxed" at all?
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Old 22nd January 2019, 08:26 AM   #578
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
There are a lot of people on this forum who unabashedly use the same kind of rhetoric as Travis and Ken. ST is the only only person around here who talks like ST.
And Bogative, Baron, Logger, TBD. All indicative of people on the right.''Good talk.
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Old 22nd January 2019, 08:27 AM   #579
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Originally Posted by varwoche View Post
Yup. It's worth noting though, the kids were transported to the rally by their Catholic school -- it was a school activity. The school has a lot to answer for. Why are they allowing kids to wear highly provocative symbols to an event like this? And why did they toss the kids under the school bus at the drop of a hat? Their actions helped fuel the media reporting.

The fact that tax dollars help fund these religious schools is another matter.
Well observed. My guess is that a Catholic school attending a rally is religious expression, and the kids wearing Trump stuff is their personal social expression, although the two likely go hand-in-hand in a highly conservative culture.

Throwing the kids under the bus is what I would expect as a face saving measure. Can't really stick to your guns when things go south: **** went from political expression to social ugliness, and that school has a checkbook to protect.
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Old 22nd January 2019, 08:28 AM   #580
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Originally Posted by varwoche View Post
Why are they allowing kids to wear highly provocative symbols to an event like this?
I don't agree that the hats should be considered highly provocative. And absent a school uniform, what business of the school's is it what the kids choose to wear?

Quote:
And why did they toss the kids under the school bus at the drop of a hat?
That is quite disturbing, and if I were a parent of one of those kids, I would seriously consider changing schools because of that.
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Old 22nd January 2019, 08:31 AM   #581
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Originally Posted by plague311 View Post
...and? Was he doxxed?

In fact, was anyone "doxxed" at all?
I don't know. I know that there were calls to doxx them, which meant more than just releasing their names.

I'm not going to assign blame to an entire half of the population on that basis, it's the fault of the individuals who did it, but even that really wasn't OK, and their names being public isn't a defense of it.
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Old 22nd January 2019, 08:31 AM   #582
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Originally Posted by The Big Dog View Post
It was not limited to Sandmann, it included all of the kids including juveniles and threats to shoot up their school among other death threats.

All because Elder Phillips thought he would get more mileage out of confronting the kids rather than the ACTUAL HATE GROUP.

Big win for the actual hate group though.
The BI were off to the side in this.

Kudos for knowing Phillip's innermost motives, though. Bonus points for not saying 'race grifter' for the three hundred thousandth time, too
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Old 22nd January 2019, 08:31 AM   #583
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Originally Posted by thaiboxerken View Post
That is one of the dumbest posts I've read on this forum.
For a bit of perspective, read your own. Not only are they lunatic, they're disgusting, comparing the people who gassed six million Jews to a group of schoolkids wearing hats supporting their democratically elected president, whilst waiting for a bus. What kind of sick mind can even come up with this ******

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Old 22nd January 2019, 08:40 AM   #584
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Originally Posted by plague311 View Post
Doxxing sucks if you're trying to hide your identity.
It's still a threat. Most people didn't know who he was or where he was before the doxxing. Stop being coy.

Quote:
WRT the FOIA, there is a site that filed for Nathan Philips history in the military, etc. By your definition, that's doxxing.
My definition? What are you talking about, again? Several of your posts make mention of things that didn't happen, and it's getting weird.
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Old 22nd January 2019, 08:40 AM   #585
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Originally Posted by plague311 View Post
"At fault" and "show behavior described by others" are completely different. I've been very careful to point out I think all parties are "at fault". Not one is free from all blame.
So, some quotes from your posted link -

Quote:
"The Covington Catholic boys harrassed my friends and I before the incident with Nathan Phillips even happened. I'm tired of reading things saying they were provoked by anyone else other than their own egos and ignorance"
Quote:
The video, alleging that the group of teenagers are from the same group as those seen harrassing Nathan Phillips, seems to contradict the claim that the students were simply reacting in retaliation to harrassment they'd received themselves from the Black Isrelites.
Again, there is 2 hours of video of the actual interaction. What is the purpose of posting an 8 second video, outside that interaction, which might not even be people from this same group? The links purpose is to cast doubt on what you can actually see with your eyes in the long video. Saying everyone is to blame is not going to side-step the purpose of posting that link. It's deliberately trying to extend a narrative that has already been shown inaccurate.
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Old 22nd January 2019, 08:41 AM   #586
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Originally Posted by Ziggurat View Post
I don't agree that the hats should be considered highly provocative. And absent a school uniform, what business of the school's is it what the kids choose to wear?
Far be it for me to opine on how Catholic schools operate. That said, I have the distinct impression they have something to say about dress.

Like it or not, the hats are provocative. Even from a MAGA friendly perspective, they must be aware of the many highly publicized incidents. Wearing the hats to a political event invites trouble.

I think MAGA hats are worse than provocative, but I don't expect everyone to share that view.
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Old 22nd January 2019, 08:42 AM   #587
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Originally Posted by varwoche View Post
Yup. It's worth noting though, the kids were transported to the rally by their Catholic school -- it was a school activity. The school has a lot to answer for. Why are they allowing kids to wear highly provocative symbols to an event like this?
Not to sound silly, but would Christian crosses be considered provocative symbols, given the event? Why would a MAGA hat be more provocative?
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Old 22nd January 2019, 08:42 AM   #588
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Originally Posted by plague311 View Post
...and? Was he doxxed?

In fact, was anyone "doxxed" at all?
We know his name and what school he goes to, that's effectively doxxed even if I don't know is actual address.

Originally Posted by plague311 View Post
"At fault" and "show behavior described by others" are completely different. I've been very careful to point out I think all parties are "at fault". Not one is free from all blame.
Thanks for the clarification, that was not clear to me. I think we largely agree though I really don't see what a seconds long video of those guys shelling something at someone really shows.
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Old 22nd January 2019, 08:42 AM   #589
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Originally Posted by TragicMonkey View Post
I disagree: once someone voluntarily engages in political confrontations in public they become public figures, at least so far as being newsworthy.
What about standing on some steps when a old fraud with a drum walks a hundred yards to stand right there in your face banging his instrument and whinnying a nonsensical song. Does that make someone a public figure? In order to not be a public figure, would the kid have had to run away, or is standing still acceptable if he indulges in deferential behaviour appropriate to a white in the presence of a Native America and, I don't know, says sorry for taking his land or something, praises his culture, apologises for being racist and privileged by default?

Out of all the people we see in the video, the candidate for the least voluntary engagement in political confrontation is the kid stood there smiling, but in the minds of the loony left he's the absolute worst and deserves all he gets.
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Old 22nd January 2019, 08:45 AM   #590
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Originally Posted by varwoche View Post
Far be it for me to opine on how Catholic schools operate. That said, I have the distinct impression they have something to say about dress.

Like it or not, the hats are provocative. Even from a MAGA friendly perspective, they must be aware of the many highly publicized incidents. Wearing the hats to a political event invites trouble.

I think MAGA hats are worse than provocative, but I don't expect everyone to share that view.
What's wrong with being provocative? If I were in the US I'd wear a MAGA hat too. Not because I support Trump, I don't, but because I can, and I believe freedom of expression should not be undermined by threats of violence, and violence, from the left.
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Old 22nd January 2019, 08:46 AM   #591
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Originally Posted by Shalamar View Post
And Bogative, Baron, Logger, TBD. All indicative of people on the right.''Good talk.
I'm calling BS on this. I've never seen any of those posters embrace racist rhetoric, unlike Skeptic Tank, who self-identifies as a racist. Be fair.
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Old 22nd January 2019, 08:46 AM   #592
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Originally Posted by varwoche View Post
Like it or not, the hats are provocative.
Because people are trying to exercise a heckler's veto over wearing them. I don't accept that anyone should bow down to that pressure.

Quote:
I think MAGA hats are worse than provocative, but I don't expect everyone to share that view.
Not only is that view not universally shared, it shouldn't even be relevant. There is no objective measure by which that hat is different than any other political campaign apparel. Would you accept people harassing someone for wearing an "I'm with her" Hillary t-shirt? Are all expressions of political support simply verboten now?

Your position on the matter is simply untenable.
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Old 22nd January 2019, 08:47 AM   #593
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Originally Posted by plague311 View Post
...and? Was he doxxed?

In fact, was anyone "doxxed" at all?
Quote:
Social media has wrongly identified a Cincinnati, Ohio teenager as the high school student who engaged in a confrontation with a Native American protester, leading to a slew of online attacks.

Michael Hodge and his family were subject to threats after being doxxed — having personal information shared online — according to his older brother, Andrew Hodge. According to a Sunday Twitter thread by Andrew Hodge, members of his family were harassed and spammed with “threats of physical violence" after their parents' address got posted online.

“My parents, uncles, & aunts, receive messages stating they are pieces of **** parents and won't be able to protect #MichaelHodge forever... seriously what kind of behavior is this?” Hodge wrote.
https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/n...-confrontation

twitter thread
https://twitter.com/PikePlaceTechie/...17202749378560
Quote:
6) People then started circulating articles of him regarding his dreams and goals of being a chef, finds the college he plans on attending and proceed to blow them up encouraging them to rescind offer and calling him a racist POS...
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Old 22nd January 2019, 08:48 AM   #594
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Originally Posted by varwoche View Post
Far be it for me to opine on how Catholic schools operate. That said, I have the distinct impression they have something to say about dress.

Like it or not, the hats are provocative. Even from a MAGA friendly perspective, they must be aware of the many highly publicized incidents. Wearing the hats to a political event invites trouble.

I think MAGA hats are worse than provocative, but I don't expect everyone to share that view
.
I have a customer who is a smiling, very sweet and friendly christian type Republican. He has a MAGA hat in his garage that he says he can't wear because of the vitriol that gets thrown at him in public. The guy genuinely sees it as a positive statement, and doesn't associate the hat with the worst actors of those who sport them.
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Old 22nd January 2019, 08:50 AM   #595
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Originally Posted by Belz... View Post
Not to sound silly, but would Christian crosses be considered provocative symbols, given the event? Why would a MAGA hat be more provocative?
Because more than any other symbol/meme, it's emblematic of Donald Trump and what he stands for.

And yes, it does sound silly to liken MAGA to crosses. The crosses are widely accepted in this religious country. Hell, it's even something in common between the kids and the Black Israelites.
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Old 22nd January 2019, 08:52 AM   #596
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Originally Posted by varwoche View Post
Because more than any other symbol/meme, it's emblematic of Donald Trump and what he stands for.
How is that provocative?

Quote:
And yes, it does sound silly to liken MAGA to crosses. The crosses are widely accepted in this religious country.
What if you sincerely believe in Trump's message? Is that better?
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Old 22nd January 2019, 08:54 AM   #597
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Originally Posted by varwoche View Post
Because more than any other symbol/meme, it's emblematic of Donald Trump and what he stands for.

And yes, it does sound silly to liken MAGA to crosses. The crosses are widely accepted in this religious country. Hell, it's even something in common between the kids and the Black Israelites.
So a steel worker who sees jobs returning to their industry and is in line for his biggest pay rise in a decade, who wants to show his support for the guy who made it happen by wearing a MAGA hat, is by default a Nazi simply for that reason? It's madness.
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Old 22nd January 2019, 08:55 AM   #598
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Originally Posted by plague311 View Post
Here's a video of those innocent maga kids allegedly harassing a girl and her friends.

https://www.indy100.com/article/maga...-video-8739981

Those innocent little rascals.

Also, Belz, get over yourself. I never made a big deal out of this before it was shown what happened. I waited for everything to come out.

If you want to try to call me out get your ******* facts straight. Thanks.
In all likelihood, the boys’ hats were the initial conflict point there and the girls said something to them to antagonize them for being “Trump supporting idiots who don’t believe in a woman’s right to choose over her own body!” prior to that video starting.

Honestly, how else would it have even gone? Absent something like that, the boys have no idea these girls aren’t fellow March For Life attendees and have no reason to bicker back and forth.

The behavior by them on this video is tame and mild regardless, well within normal for teenaged boys in a group especially if they are getting called out and mocked for being Trump supporters, which we both know is almost certainly the genesis of this.

Still haven’t seen anything which justifies the entire planet learning about these boys. They literally did NOTHING whatsoever to merit any attention.
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Old 22nd January 2019, 08:57 AM   #599
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Originally Posted by Ziggurat View Post
Because people are trying to exercise a heckler's veto over wearing them. I don't accept that anyone should bow down to that pressure.
I generally agree. But not in the case of minors on a school outing, where the school is responsible for their safety.

Quote:
Not only is that view not universally shared, it shouldn't even be relevant.
True, it's irrelevant to the situation. I'm just sharing my view of things.
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Old 22nd January 2019, 09:00 AM   #600
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These kids aren't wearing these hats because they remember when America was great. They are too young for that. They are worn because they were told that America was once a great place.
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