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Tags !MOD BOX WARNING! , assault incidents , Chicago incidents , Jussie Smollett

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Old 31st January 2019, 10:30 AM   #201
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Originally Posted by Thermal View Post
....... He still has the cord around his neck..... 45 minutes later.....

....... left this cord around his neck the whole time?
He probably assumed it was evidence, had DNA on it and possibly fingerprints, and wanted the police to collect it from where it was left. Or, possibly, he was unaware that it was there. The fact that he left evidence in situ shouldn't be taken as meaning that it wasn't evidence, or that it was faked evidence, or that there is something otherwise fishy with his story.
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Old 31st January 2019, 10:33 AM   #202
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Originally Posted by MikeG View Post
He probably assumed it was evidence, had DNA on it and possibly fingerprints, and wanted the police to collect it from where it was left. Or, possibly, he was unaware that it was there. The fact that he left evidence in situ shouldn't be taken as meaning that it wasn't evidence, or that it was faked evidence, or that there is something otherwise fishy with his story.
So he was very keen to present that evidence but less keen to present the evidence on his phone.
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Old 31st January 2019, 10:45 AM   #203
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Originally Posted by MikeG View Post
He probably assumed it was evidence, had DNA on it and possibly fingerprints, and wanted the police to collect it from where it was left. Or, possibly, he was unaware that it was there. The fact that he left evidence in situ shouldn't be taken as meaning that it wasn't evidence, or that it was faked evidence, or that there is something otherwise fishy with his story.
Yeah, "probably."

Which is why they waited 35 minutes to call the cops and he did not say anything to the security guards within a minute of the "attack."

He was leaving thing "in situ' as one does.
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Old 31st January 2019, 11:00 AM   #204
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Apparently, Smollett is only off-camera for 60 seconds in the time that the other two people are in the vicinity. During that time, Smollett's clothes get what appears to be road salt on them, and the rope appears.

https://twitter.com/RobElgasABC7/sta...17480124174336

EDIT: I should say, at the end of that time period, Smollett's clothes have road salt and the cord/rope is there.

That puts that attack occurring before this time period, as we see no sign of an attack during the time period.
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2 prints, same midtarsal crock..., I mean break?

Last edited by LTC8K6; 31st January 2019 at 11:07 AM.
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Old 31st January 2019, 11:02 AM   #205
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There should be footage of Smollett on the phone during this time period, but I do not see any mention of such footage.

Smollett would have to have been attacked well before the available footage, I think.

That would seem to rule out the other two people as having been involved or having seen anything.
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Last edited by LTC8K6; 31st January 2019 at 11:06 AM.
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Old 31st January 2019, 11:10 AM   #206
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I find with cellphones that I cannot hear people in the background even if they are talking along with the caller. Maybe I hear sounds but they are always unintelligible. Something about cellphone technology seems to destroy the ability to discern background voices and sounds.

I can hear background people when it's an old-fashion landline and even can know who they are if I'm familiar with their voice.
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Old 31st January 2019, 11:15 AM   #207
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Originally Posted by alfaniner View Post
The "rope" seems to be devolving to be a "cord". Regardless of that, if the item is a factor, it's possible he was trying to do a David Carradine, whether alone or with a partner, and it got out of hand.
....outside?

At night?

In freezing conditions?
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Old 31st January 2019, 11:15 AM   #208
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Originally Posted by William Parcher View Post
I find with cellphones that I cannot hear people in the background even if they are talking along with the caller. Maybe I hear sounds but they are always unintelligible. Something about cellphone technology seems to destroy the ability to discern background voices and sounds.

I can hear background people when it's an old-fashion landline and even can know who they are if I'm familiar with their voice.
Did the manager call the police when he heard the attack over the phone?
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Old 31st January 2019, 11:25 AM   #209
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Originally Posted by MikeG View Post
He probably assumed it was evidence, had DNA on it and possibly fingerprints, and wanted the police to collect it from where it was left. Or, possibly, he was unaware that it was there. The fact that he left evidence in situ shouldn't be taken as meaning that it wasn't evidence, or that it was faked evidence, or that there is something otherwise fishy with his story.
Of course. He was either thinking very clearly and planning ahead, or he was oblivious to a rope around his neck.
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Old 31st January 2019, 11:28 AM   #210
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He dinged himself up before a concert, instead of cancelling the concert, he comes up with this story?

What were ticket sales like for this concert?

Was this concocted to drive sales for the show?
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Old 31st January 2019, 11:29 AM   #211
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Do we know if he reported the attack to building security?
It doesn't seem like he did.
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2 prints, same midtarsal crock..., I mean break?
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Old 31st January 2019, 11:33 AM   #212
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Originally Posted by Checkmite View Post
....outside?

At night?

In freezing conditions?
Don't kink-shame. For certain kinds of exothermophiles, Chicago is having the perfect storm right now. Does Smollett have a history of intruding on walk-in freezers?
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Old 31st January 2019, 11:39 AM   #213
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We had a girl freeze to death in a walk-in freezer a couple of years ago. She wandered in there from a hotel party.



https://www.chicagotribune.com/news/...906-story.html


It occurs to me that, no matter what the situation is, my snark and ill-informed musings can't help the situation. No matter what happened and where the blame lies, sympathy and empathy for Mr. Smollett is the best that I can offer.
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Old 31st January 2019, 11:39 AM   #214
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The police say that the "rope" is clothesline and is straight out of the package. They said that the formation of a "noose" is debatable. IOW, some might describe it as a noose and others not.

AFAIK, a "hanging noose" is a specific kind of knot.
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Old 31st January 2019, 11:43 AM   #215
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Originally Posted by William Parcher View Post
The police say that the "rope" is clothesline and is straight out of the package. They said that the formation of a "noose" is debatable. IOW, some might describe it as a noose and others not.

AFAIK, a "hanging noose" is a specific kind of knot.
Does that say anything about the act of putting it around the throat of a victim?
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Old 31st January 2019, 11:43 AM   #216
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Maybe Smollett never meant for the fake attack story to be told to police or the public. Maybe it was originally only to be told to the guy in the condo and then that would be the end of it.
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Old 31st January 2019, 11:46 AM   #217
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Originally Posted by MikeG View Post
Does that say anything about the act of putting it around the throat of a victim?
Not really.

It could inform that it wasn't found outside and then used on the neck. It could inform that the rope went straight from its package to the neck.
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Old 31st January 2019, 11:48 AM   #218
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Originally Posted by Drewbot View Post
He dinged himself up before a concert, instead of cancelling the concert, he comes up with this story?

What were ticket sales like for this concert?

Was this concocted to drive sales for the show?
Are there no depths to which you won't go? What is the mentality that assumes someone is lying, then makes up stupid scenarios to justify that assumption, then clutches about for more when the original stupid scenarios are demonstrated to be baseless? Is this nonsense (one of the most successful stage plays for a while, as I understand it, so yes, your nonsense is nonsense) being plucked out of your arse because the previous nonsense from the same location, involving scooters, drugs, remind me what else, has had no support from any reports or police statements, and would have done by now if there was anything it it?
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Old 31st January 2019, 11:49 AM   #219
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Originally Posted by William Parcher View Post
Maybe Smollett never meant for the fake attack story to be told to police or the public. Maybe it was originally only to be told to the guy in the condo and then that would be the end of it.
Has it crossed your mind for a second that it isn't a fake story?
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Old 31st January 2019, 11:54 AM   #220
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Originally Posted by MikeG View Post
Has it crossed your mind for a second that it isn't a fake story?
Constantly. But the critical thinking skeptic part of my brain is beating the crap out of the other part of my brain. It's all because of what has been reported.
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Old 31st January 2019, 11:55 AM   #221
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Originally Posted by carlitos View Post
It occurs to me that, no matter what the situation is, my snark and ill-informed musings can't help the situation. No matter what happened and where the blame lies, sympathy and empathy for Mr. Smollett is the best that I can offer.
That's fair. Thanks for helping me think about being a better person.
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Old 31st January 2019, 11:55 AM   #222
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Originally Posted by LTC8K6 View Post
Do we know if he reported the attack to building security?
It doesn't seem like he did.
we know he did not. The CPD has the video from inside the lobby.

He breezed right past them, as one does when there are MAGA country hooligans with a deep knowledge of Empire the tv show stomping the **** out of homosexuals on their front stoop.
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Old 31st January 2019, 11:59 AM   #223
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Originally Posted by William Parcher View Post
Constantly. But the critical thinking skeptic part of my brain is beating the crap out of the other part of my brain. It's all because of what has been reported.
But have you applied that critical thinking in reverse? Have you looked at how much this guy has to lose through being caught up in a fraud, and how little he has to gain (like nothing at all)? Critical thinking doesn't turn puzzlement at incomplete second hand info into a conspiracy theory. There isn't any way to claim that that is critical thinking.
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Old 31st January 2019, 12:06 PM   #224
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We can't narrow down the time of the attack.

We have no description of the attackers.

We have video of a couple of people walking on the other side of the street, that seems to eliminate the attack occurring during the time period of the video, and puts it sometime before then.

We seem to have an exact time of the attack, according to the manager, since a phone call was going on at the time, but we don't know when that was. The police have not reported what that time was, if they know it.
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Old 31st January 2019, 12:13 PM   #225
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Originally Posted by MikeG View Post
But have you applied that critical thinking in reverse? Have you looked at how much this guy has to lose through being caught up in a fraud, and how little he has to gain (like nothing at all)? Critical thinking doesn't turn puzzlement at incomplete second hand info into a conspiracy theory. There isn't any way to claim that that is critical thinking.
Constantly. And that is why I proposed the idea that the story was never meant to go further than the other guy in the condo.
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Old 31st January 2019, 12:14 PM   #226
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Originally Posted by LTC8K6 View Post
We can't narrow down the time of the attack.

We have no description of the attackers.

We have video of a couple of people walking on the other side of the street, that seems to eliminate the attack occurring during the time period of the video, and puts it sometime before then.

We seem to have an exact time of the attack, according to the manager, since a phone call was going on at the time, but we don't know when that was. The police have not reported what that time was, if they know it.
Actually, it's none of our business. There are professional evidence gatherers doing their job who can choose to release some or all of this information, or none of it. None of which allows us to make up conspiracy theories in the place of evidence.
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Old 31st January 2019, 12:15 PM   #227
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I presume we know when Smollett was at the Subway sub shop as a time period boundary?

He has to have been attacked after that point, but before the "two people" video begins, I think.

Once that video begins, there is good coverage of what happened, and we don't see any sign of an attack or encounter.
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Old 31st January 2019, 12:17 PM   #228
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Originally Posted by MikeG View Post
Actually, it's none of our business. There are professional evidence gatherers doing their job who can choose to release some or all of this information, or none of it. None of which allows us to make up conspiracy theories in the place of evidence.
Well, right now at this board, we are all discussing what might have happened, using what evidence we have been given.

If we stayed out of other people's business, we'd have little to talk about, particularly in this board area.
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Old 31st January 2019, 12:19 PM   #229
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Originally Posted by LTC8K6 View Post
We have no description of the attackers.
Smollett may have given descriptions to the cops that went beyond ski masks and gloves. He may have described clothing. I noticed that the guys in the video stills seem to be dressed only generically and with dark colors - this is because we can't see detail. But the one guy has very light colored pants and they might be white pants.

A simple description coming from Smollett might be, "clothes were all dark, except the one guy had on white pants". That there might seal it for the police that the guys on video are the attackers.
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Old 31st January 2019, 12:21 PM   #230
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Originally Posted by MikeG View Post
Actually, it's none of our business. There are professional evidence gatherers doing their job who can choose to release some or all of this information, or none of it. None of which allows us to make up conspiracy theories in the place of evidence.
As so it has been decreed my MikeG. Shut down the site immediately, nobody is 'allowed' to speculate, only state facts.
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Old 31st January 2019, 12:24 PM   #231
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Originally Posted by William Parcher View Post
Smollett may have given descriptions to the cops that went beyond ski masks and gloves. He may have described clothing. I noticed that the guys in the video stills seem to be dressed only generically and with dark colors - this is because we can't see detail. But the one guy has very light colored pants and they might be white pants.

A simple description coming from Smollett might be, "clothes were all dark, except the one guy had on white pants". That there might seal it for the police that the guys on video are the attackers.
The police have already indicated that the people on video are not the attackers, though. Smollett was only out of frame for ~60 seconds, and no encounter is captured on the video. The two people do not appear to interact with Smollett.
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Old 31st January 2019, 12:24 PM   #232
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Originally Posted by LTC8K6 View Post
Well, right now at this board, we are all discussing what might have happened, using what evidence we have been given.
Do you see anyone discussing the possibility that the victim here is just teling the truth? Why does your "might have happened" not include that?

Quote:
If we stayed out of other people's business, we'd have little to talk about, particularly in this board area.
That's a slight misunderstanding of what I was saying, but that's my fault. I should have been clearer. It's perfectly all right for us to discuss other people's business, of course. What I meant was that it isn't our business to expect to have the evidence/ information you listed.
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Old 31st January 2019, 12:25 PM   #233
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If it was not for the "MAGA" country bit, there would be no controversy.
You have a bunch of right wing ideologuts who don't want to admit one of their own could do something like this. That is it in a nutshell.
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Old 31st January 2019, 12:27 PM   #234
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More and more I am coming to realize that some so called skeptical thinkers here are sailing under false colors.
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Old 31st January 2019, 12:27 PM   #235
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Originally Posted by dudalb View Post
If it was not for the "MAGA" country bit, there would be no controversy.
Apart from the other two dozen anomalies exhaustively discussed, you're right.
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Old 31st January 2019, 12:28 PM   #236
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Originally Posted by MikeG View Post
Do you see anyone discussing the possibility that the victim here is just teling the truth? Why does your "might have happened" not include that?
I think it's possible, but as time goes on it is looking less likely to me.
Have you considered the possibility that the victim is not telling the truth?
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Old 31st January 2019, 12:28 PM   #237
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Originally Posted by MikeG View Post
Do you see anyone discussing the possibility that the victim here is just teling the truth?
The OP explicitly assumes that Smollett's story is true. Much of the thread is about examining the OP assumption in light of the available evidence.

Are you going to take Travis to task for assuming facts not in evidence? Or are you just going after anyone who dares to dispute his narrative?
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Old 31st January 2019, 12:28 PM   #238
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Originally Posted by MikeG View Post
But have you applied that critical thinking in reverse? Have you looked at how much this guy has to lose through being caught up in a fraud, and how little he has to gain (like nothing at all)? Critical thinking doesn't turn puzzlement at incomplete second hand info into a conspiracy theory. There isn't any way to claim that that is critical thinking.
It's peddling a conspiracy theory under the guise of critical thinking.

And why do I think a lot of "this was fake" talking points are coming off of right wing websites?
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Old 31st January 2019, 12:29 PM   #239
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Originally Posted by sir drinks-a-lot View Post
I think it's possible, but as time goes on it is looking less likely to me.
Have you considered the possibility that the victim is not telling the truth?
Yes, but there's scant reason to think that, given, as I've repeatedly said, that he has a lot to lose and nothing to gain from being caught in a fraud, wasting police time etc.
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Old 31st January 2019, 12:31 PM   #240
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Originally Posted by MikeG View Post
Do you see anyone discussing the possibility that the victim here is just teling the truth? Why does your "might have happened" not include that?



That's a slight misunderstanding of what I was saying, but that's my fault. I should have been clearer. It's perfectly all right for us to discuss other people's business, of course. What I meant was that it isn't our business to expect to have the evidence/ information you listed.
This is a skeptic board. Expect skepticism of extraordinary events here, not blind acceptance.

I'm under no obligation to believe any story I hear.

The police will probably eventually be able to piece together Smollett's trip from the Subway to home, as security cams are abundant in the area.

Hopefully that will provide evidence of what happened to Smollett on that walk.
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