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Tags !MOD BOX WARNING! , assault incidents , Chicago incidents , Jussie Smollett

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Old 23rd February 2019, 03:30 PM   #2801
RecoveringYuppy
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Not too familiar with Wahlberg, he cleaned up didn't he?

I don't think Smollett has done anything, yet, that should earn him lifetime pariah status IMO. If he were to get on the right track now, serve his time, pay his fines I'd have no problem with people working with him in the future or watching him in a film.

His current defense, denial, and subsequent lack of remorse aren't on the right track yet though.
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Old 23rd February 2019, 04:04 PM   #2802
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Originally Posted by rockinkt View Post
You are wrong.

The active cesspool that is Hollywood along with the general public love to forgive their manufactured heroes no matter how horrible their crimes or actions. Here are just a few that come to mind:
Meryl Streep, Whoopi Goldberg and dozens of others defending child rapist Roman Polanski. Special Oscar and standing ovation from the majority of A-listers in the crowd. Millions watch his movies around the world.
Racist, wife/girlfriend beating, misogynist, gay hating Mel Gibson.
Racist violent Mark Wahlberg who taunted and assaulted some black children and after that arrest - nearly beat a Vietnamese man to death for being Vietnamese.
Lots more but I think you get the picture...
I don't think Smollett will be forgiven in the same way. He's a pariah now, and forevermore, because the nature of his offense was such that it is being perceived as hurting every victim or potential victim of a hate crime for purely selfish gain. Not only that, but he additionally won't admit to the offense, or at least hasn't yet, and, perhaps most importantly, he treated everyone like a fool by trying to dupe them. People don't take kindly to being treated like fools, and are more likely to forgive someone who's committed violence than they are to forgive someone who showed by his actions that he thinks they are stupid and not worthy of respect.

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Old 23rd February 2019, 05:15 PM   #2803
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Originally Posted by LTC8K6 View Post
There's little info on whether MDMA is addictive, but it's effect list is very interesting.

https://www.drugabuse.gov/publicatio...a-ecstasymolly

I don't see faking hate crimes on the list, or any effect that would cause one to.

How so?
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Old 23rd February 2019, 06:46 PM   #2804
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Originally Posted by LTC8K6 View Post
Wahlberg was 15 and 17 and in a gang when those two attacks occurred.
However, he was 21 when he fractured his neighbor's jaw for no apparent reason.
I hope you aren't suggesting that chasing children and throwing rocks while screaming racial epithets and threatening to kill them, and then beating a man almost to death, are things we all did when we were that age?
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Old 23rd February 2019, 06:55 PM   #2805
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Originally Posted by Doghouse Reilly View Post
I don't think Smollett will be forgiven in the same way. He's a pariah now, and forevermore, because the nature of his offense was such that it is being perceived as hurting every victim or potential victim of a hate crime for purely selfish gain. Not only that, but he additionally won't admit to the offense, or at least hasn't yet, and, perhaps most importantly, he treated everyone like a fool by trying to dupe them. People don't take kindly to being treated like fools, and are more likely to forgive someone who's committed violence than they are to forgive someone who showed by his actions that he thinks they are stupid and not worthy of respect.
'Cause we never forgive politicians who do that to us on a near daily basis.
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Old 23rd February 2019, 07:17 PM   #2806
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Originally Posted by rockinkt View Post
I hope you aren't suggesting that chasing children and throwing rocks while screaming racial epithets and threatening to kill them, and then beating a man almost to death, are things we all did when we were that age?
I'd be pretty sure he's not suggesting that.

Speaking for myself, If I had said those words my intent would be to point out that he could have grown up and become a better person. Now that he's in his forties is there any reason to think he hasn't?
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Old 23rd February 2019, 07:48 PM   #2807
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Originally Posted by rockinkt View Post
I hope you aren't suggesting that chasing children and throwing rocks while screaming racial epithets and threatening to kill them, and then beating a man almost to death, are things we all did when we were that age?
I would hope that being a gang member was the critical factor.

He was 15 when he chased the black kids.

He's 47 now.

As far as I know, he's gone about 26 years without any trouble. The last incident being when he was 21.

Is there any time limit where your behavior as a young person is no longer held against you? These days it seems like the answer is often no.
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Old 23rd February 2019, 08:05 PM   #2808
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Originally Posted by mgidm86 View Post
I don't see faking hate crimes on the list, or any effect that would cause one to.

How so?
I just didn't know it had such effects.

Supposedly Jussie used Molly, which is apparently dangerous to buy on the street because just about anything might be in the powder.
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Old 23rd February 2019, 08:09 PM   #2809
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Originally Posted by LTC8K6 View Post
I just didn't know it had such effects.

You haven't said what effects you're referring to.
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Old 23rd February 2019, 08:25 PM   #2810
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Originally Posted by applecorped View Post
Nothing like blaming ecstasy for your racial grifting
Lead from behind, amiright?


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Old 23rd February 2019, 09:57 PM   #2811
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Originally Posted by RecoveringYuppy View Post
You haven't said what effects you're referring to.
The effects listed at the link I posted?
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Old 24th February 2019, 03:03 AM   #2812
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Originally Posted by LTC8K6 View Post
I would hope that being a gang member was the critical factor.

He was 15 when he chased the black kids.

He's 47 now.

As far as I know, he's gone about 26 years without any trouble. The last incident being when he was 21.

Is there any time limit where your behavior as a young person is no longer held against you? These days it seems like the answer is often no.
Incident? The "incident" when he was 21 was "without provocation or cause" (as per court records), viciously and repeatedly kicking a man named Robert D. Crehan in the face and jaw while another man named Derek McCall held Crehan down on the ground.
Also - please do not forget that Wahlberg was scheduled to make a bunch of PSAs about hate-crimes in 1993 but those had to be cancelled after he assaulted a gay record executive in Hollywood after making disparaging remarks about homosexuals.

At least four vicious, violent actions - three being hate crimes by today's standards - tells me that these were not situational accidents or being in the wrong place with the wrong people.

A couple of years ago - after he became very rich and famous and supposedly grew up (in his mid forties) he applied for a pardon. Not so he could move on with his life - but because under California law he could be denied a concessionaire's license and he wanted to open one of his restaurants.
The fact that he refused to admit race was his motivation for his criminal convictions and refused to apologize for his racist beliefs as part of his pardon application is reason enough for me to not forgive him. The fact that he also made no effort to apologize or reach out to anyone to make up for his egregious actions until he wanted his pardon is also very telling.
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Last edited by rockinkt; 24th February 2019 at 03:10 AM. Reason: spelingz
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Old 24th February 2019, 07:09 AM   #2813
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Originally Posted by Doghouse Reilly View Post
I don't think Smollett will be forgiven in the same way. He's a pariah now, and forevermore, because the nature of his offense was such that it is being perceived as hurting every victim or potential victim of a hate crime for purely selfish gain. Not only that, but he additionally won't admit to the offense, or at least hasn't yet, and, perhaps most importantly, he treated everyone like a fool by trying to dupe them. People don't take kindly to being treated like fools, and are more likely to forgive someone who's committed violence than they are to forgive someone who showed by his actions that he thinks they are stupid and not worthy of respect.
Most of any of his future redemption will be based on how he takes ownership of his actions. So long as he denies that he had any part of this, he is mostly done. Own it, apologize for it and in a few years it will stop being an issue. Can't forgive someone for an action they aren't asking to be forgiven for.

Also, if you are going to fake an attack, take one for the team, let them crack a rib, blacken an eye, anything more than a small scratch. Get something that requires stitches. But I guess that wouldn't fit with his "I fought back" line.

Not saying it can't be done, but the general public does like redemption stories and famous for second, third or fourth chances. Also, I'm not sure how high profile he was before this. Empire is not something I've watched so I have no idea on how popular or talented he is. His Wikipedia page seems to suggest that he is popular enough that someone is going to give him a second chance if he can clear himself of the controversy. Not the crime, but the controversy.
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Old 24th February 2019, 07:28 AM   #2814
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Originally Posted by Leftus View Post
Also, if you are going to fake an attack, take one for the team, let them crack a rib, blacken an eye, anything more than a small scratch. Get something that requires stitches. But I guess that wouldn't fit with his "I fought back" line.
That was another suspicious data point in the story provided. Have you seen pictures of those guys?
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Old 24th February 2019, 07:47 AM   #2815
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Just for fun...

How Jussie Smolette Rehearse his "Attack"
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Old 24th February 2019, 08:03 AM   #2816
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Originally Posted by rockinkt View Post
Incident? The "incident" when he was 21 was "without provocation or cause" (as per court records), viciously and repeatedly kicking a man named Robert D. Crehan in the face and jaw while another man named Derek McCall held Crehan down on the ground.
Also - please do not forget that Wahlberg was scheduled to make a bunch of PSAs about hate-crimes in 1993 but those had to be cancelled after he assaulted a gay record executive in Hollywood after making disparaging remarks about homosexuals.

At least four vicious, violent actions - three being hate crimes by today's standards - tells me that these were not situational accidents or being in the wrong place with the wrong people.

A couple of years ago - after he became very rich and famous and supposedly grew up (in his mid forties) he applied for a pardon. Not so he could move on with his life - but because under California law he could be denied a concessionaire's license and he wanted to open one of his restaurants.
The fact that he refused to admit race was his motivation for his criminal convictions and refused to apologize for his racist beliefs as part of his pardon application is reason enough for me to not forgive him. The fact that he also made no effort to apologize or reach out to anyone to make up for his egregious actions until he wanted his pardon is also very telling.
Well then Smollett would seem to be small potatoes.

Wahlberg is not really a good example, though.

Incidents like this one are the ones I meant.

http://gettysburgian.com/2019/02/gar...d-in-yearbook/
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Old 24th February 2019, 08:08 AM   #2817
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Originally Posted by alfaniner View Post
That was another suspicious data point in the story provided. Have you seen pictures of those guys?
Well, I suspect he imagined they would never get caught. I mean, they took an Uber to a cab to the scene of the crime. Who could possible trace that.
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Old 24th February 2019, 09:10 AM   #2818
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I think Wahlberg is a bad comparison for several reasons, but at least his story provides a path forward for Smollett.

If Jussie Smollett admits what he did, apologizes for it, and spends the next twenty years making a reputation as a working actor who stays out of trouble and does his job, I'll consider him every bit as redeemed as Mark Wahlberg.

Michael Vick and Mark Wahlberg have been through a redemptive process. You might not think their process was valid. You might not think that the process earned the amount of public support that they now enjoy. But Jussie Smollett is still denying that he's done anything that needs redemption. Let him admit his crime and do his time. Then we can see if he's being treated worse than Michael Vick.
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Old 24th February 2019, 10:19 AM   #2819
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
I think Wahlberg is a bad comparison for several reasons, but at least his story provides a path forward for Smollett.

If Jussie Smollett admits what he did, apologizes for it, and spends the next twenty years making a reputation as a working actor who stays out of trouble and does his job, I'll consider him every bit as redeemed as Mark Wahlberg.

Michael Vick and Mark Wahlberg have been through a redemptive process. You might not think their process was valid. You might not think that the process earned the amount of public support that they now enjoy. But Jussie Smollett is still denying that he's done anything that needs redemption. Let him admit his crime and do his time. Then we can see if he's being treated worse than Michael Vick.
I disagree. Wahlberg's transgressions came years before he made it and at a time when no one cared about the past lives of actors. There was never a need to redeem himself and so he hasn't.

Wahlberg's victims are nameless and faceless so it's much harder to get a reaction to what he did. Smollett got what he intended, which was for his actions to be front and centre in the news, which makes people's reactions very visceral. The further removed from people's lives events take place, the less people care.
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Old 24th February 2019, 11:05 AM   #2820
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Originally Posted by Leftus View Post
Well, I suspect he imagined they would never get caught. I mean, they took an Uber to a cab to the scene of the crime. Who could possible trace that.
the real issue is that if the story was taken at face value, 2 potentially innocent people could have been sitting in jail now and he'd be going about his life receiving accolades.
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Old 24th February 2019, 11:10 AM   #2821
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Originally Posted by qayak View Post
I disagree. Wahlberg's transgressions came years before he made it
who didn't know who Marky Mark was then? he had a billboard #1 song the year before.
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Old 24th February 2019, 11:19 AM   #2822
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Originally Posted by Whip View Post
who didn't know who Marky Mark was then? he had a billboard #1 song the year before.
Wahlberg's victims certainly Felt the Vibration
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Old 24th February 2019, 11:26 AM   #2823
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Originally Posted by Whip View Post
the real issue is that if the story was taken at face value, 2 potentially innocent people could have been sitting in jail now and he'd be going about his life receiving accolades.
That's another thing that is a bit befuddling. He had 2 associates on the streets at the time. So the cops were either going to catch nobody, the right people or some innocent people. It was 2 AM in the middle of a Chicago winter, how many people did he think were going to be on the streets?

He probably thought that if they caught 2 white guys, so what? It's for the cause and all that.
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Old 24th February 2019, 11:31 AM   #2824
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It was reported that the attack was supposed to be earlier, and after the attack the brothers were supposed to jump on their plane for Nigeria. The flight was delayed four hours, so the initial plan seems to have been for around 10PM
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Old 24th February 2019, 11:39 AM   #2825
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Originally Posted by Thermal View Post
It was reported that the attack was supposed to be earlier, and after the attack the brothers were supposed to jump on their plane for Nigeria. The flight was delayed four hours, so the initial plan seems to have been for around 10PM
With Smollett paying for their plane tickets by check?
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Old 24th February 2019, 11:47 AM   #2826
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Originally Posted by wasapi View Post
With Smollett paying for their plane tickets by check?
From what I gather, the guys were going anyway, and Smollett was using their departure as a convenient exit from the stage, which is why the date was critical. I don't know if the $3500 represented the cost of the trip, or how that odd amount was arrived at. Maybe JS offered to make the trip free, post hoc?
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Old 24th February 2019, 11:56 AM   #2827
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Originally Posted by Stout View Post
That made me laugh.
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Old 24th February 2019, 12:15 PM   #2828
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Originally Posted by Thermal View Post
It was reported that the attack was supposed to be earlier, and after the attack the brothers were supposed to jump on their plane for Nigeria. The flight was delayed four hours, so the initial plan seems to have been for around 10PM
It was Smollett's flight into Chicago that was delayed by 4 hours, not the brothers' flight out to Nigeria.
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Old 24th February 2019, 12:19 PM   #2829
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Originally Posted by Leftus View Post
That's another thing that is a bit befuddling. He had 2 associates on the streets at the time. So the cops were either going to catch nobody, the right people or some innocent people. It was 2 AM in the middle of a Chicago winter, how many people did he think were going to be on the streets?

He probably thought that if they caught 2 white guys, so what? It's for the cause and all that.
if he had covered his tracks better, it could have even been the Nigerians that took a fall.
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Old 24th February 2019, 03:40 PM   #2830
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Originally Posted by Whip View Post
if he had covered his tracks better, it could have even been the Nigerians that took a fall.
Not for 3500 bucks, split between the two. He would have to testify, probably, since his description didn't match the brothers.
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Old 24th February 2019, 11:20 PM   #2831
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Originally Posted by Whip View Post
who didn't know who Marky Mark was then? he had a billboard #1 song the year before.
In a way, we are all victims of Marky Mark.
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Old 24th February 2019, 11:24 PM   #2832
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Rogan was joking about how some critic says, "This is why actors don't get to write the scripts. The plotlines are too obvious and you can see the twists coming a mile off."

I should point out that I don't see really obvious plot twists coming. A movie will open with the main star using a rowing machine and talking about how he'll never beat his target of 10 minutes, the in the final scene when a bomb is about to go off on an island in 9 minutes and forty seconds, I'll still be wondering how the guy is going to get to the island.
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Old 25th February 2019, 09:22 AM   #2833
theprestige
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Originally Posted by qayak View Post
I disagree. Wahlberg's transgressions came years before he made it and at a time when no one cared about the past lives of actors. There was never a need to redeem himself and so he hasn't.
That's fair. Most of Wahlberg's redemption probably happened in my head anyway. My understanding is that he has admitted doing these things, and that he has expressed regret about them. That's part of it, and it's something Smollett needs to do. The other thing Wahlberg has done is spend many years staying out of trouble. That's the other thing Smollett needs to do.

But this whole shift in topic seems like a kind of "bargaining" to me. People can't deny Jusssie Smollett lied. People can't deny that the media and members of the political class pushed a bogus, hateful narrative on us.

Those are real problems that should be addressed. Instead, some people want to talk about how Smollett is being unfairly pilloried for his crimes. Some people still want to have a narrative where Smollett is the victim somehow.
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Old 25th February 2019, 09:29 AM   #2834
William Parcher
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Top Cop was on Good Morning America today. He says that they have a lot more evidence against Smollett than has been disclosed so far.
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Old 25th February 2019, 09:49 AM   #2835
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Originally Posted by angrysoba View Post
I should point out that I don't see really obvious plot twists coming. A movie will open with the main star using a rowing machine and talking about how he'll never beat his target of 10 minutes, the in the final scene when a bomb is about to go off on an island in 9 minutes and forty seconds, I'll still be wondering how the guy is going to get to the island.
You should watch The Prestige (the movie, not the forum member. That would be creepy). It's full of twists that are telegraphed beforehand, but it's so expertly done that even when you know it's foreshadowing (like all the hats on the ground at the start of the movie), you can't really tell what it's foreshadowing of until the twist is revealed.
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Old 25th February 2019, 10:11 AM   #2836
theprestige
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I tend to come at movies with as much of a blank slate as possible. The director wants to tell me a story, I'm content to sit back and let him tell it. If Chekov wants to show me a gun in the first act, great. I'm not going to go looking for it, though. And if in the third act, I end up thinking "oh, so that was the gun all along!", so much the better for me.
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Old 25th February 2019, 10:11 AM   #2837
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The correct take on this case is in the Huffington Post today.
I Don’t Regret Believing Jussie Smollett. Here’s Why.



The author of that piece states her personal situation in the opening paragraph.



Quote:
My husband is a transgender man, and I’m a queer cisgender woman.
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Old 25th February 2019, 10:46 AM   #2838
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Originally Posted by carlitos View Post
The correct take on this case is in the Huffington Post today.
"Believe victims."

This is a platitude, not an actual comprehensible position. It assumes victimhood has already been established, but if it was already established, then belief isn't even relevant. You don't believe established facts, you know them.

Is the author asking us to believe all claims of victimhood? That would be a very different request, and one that a lot of people (myself included) would not be willing to agree to.
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Old 25th February 2019, 11:00 AM   #2839
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Originally Posted by Ziggurat View Post
Is the author asking us to believe all claims of victimhood? That would be a very different request, and one that a lot of people (myself included) would not be willing to agree to.
I'm not sure that HuffPo articles are written for the sort of people who ask questions like this.
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Old 25th February 2019, 11:05 AM   #2840
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Originally Posted by carlitos View Post
The correct take on this case is in the Huffington Post today.
I Don’t Regret Believing Jussie Smollett. Here’s Why.

he author of that piece states her personal situation in the opening paragraph.
The correct take being if one's husband is a transgender man, and one is a queer cisgender woman, one should not regret believing the hoax???

The correct take is not regretting not believing the hoax at all, ever.
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