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Tags !MOD BOX WARNING! , assault incidents , Chicago incidents , Jussie Smollett

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Old 8th March 2019, 04:23 PM   #3001
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Originally Posted by William Parcher View Post
Hello....


Jussie Smollett Case: Grand Jury Returns 16 Counts Against ĎEmpireí Actor




https://chicago.cbslocal.com/2019/03...ry-indictment/
Quote:
Each of the Empire actorís new charges carries a possible sentence of probation to four years in prison, but ABC Eyewitness News reports that experts believe Smollett will likely avoid jail time by striking a plea deal.
Experts believe there will be no jail time. It's conceivable. We'll see. I think it's actually pretty rare for people who falsely report crimes to be sent to jail, so that wouldn't actually be unusual for a case like this.
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Old 8th March 2019, 04:29 PM   #3002
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Originally Posted by Puppycow View Post
Experts believe there will be no jail time. It's conceivable. We'll see. I think it's actually pretty rare for people who falsely report crimes to be sent to jail, so that wouldn't actually be unusual for a case like this.
With 17 felony charges it looks like Chicago is going after Smollett in a fierce way. A typical false report perp might get one count and maybe not even a felony count.

Chicago seems to want to give Smollett a real beating, not a fake one. Seventeen felonies and then no jail?
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Old 8th March 2019, 04:54 PM   #3003
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So then the new bail. Will it be 16 x $100,000 = $1.6 million?
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Old 8th March 2019, 05:59 PM   #3004
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Originally Posted by Rafer Weigel
The 16-count grand jury indictment on Jussie Smollett blindsided a lot of people including Smollettís legal team. SA Kim Foxxís office didnít tell anyone. Even Chicago Police werenít aware of it.

https://twitter.com/RaferWeigel/stat...58331168612353
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Old 8th March 2019, 08:37 PM   #3005
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Originally Posted by William Parcher View Post
With 17 felony charges it looks like Chicago is going after Smollett in a fierce way. A typical false report perp might get one count and maybe not even a felony count.

Chicago seems to want to give Smollett a real beating, not a fake one. Seventeen felonies and then no jail?

Seems like each lie he told is being counted as a separate incident. We'll see how that goes.

I'd say the letter is the best chance of him seeing any real jail time, if they can tie it to him. I'll wager (any takers?) that they will find that he is responsible for the letter AND charge him for it. That's a federal crime. He's been so stupid there's no reason to assume he covered his tracks with the letter and I can't see the feds taking this lightly.
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Old 8th March 2019, 10:20 PM   #3006
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Originally Posted by mgidm86 View Post
What a despicable post. Please, more honesty from you.
Don't like it? It's a fair point, and I'm unconcerned with what you somehow find "despicable".

If CPD has serious points against Smollett, they can present it at trial.
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Old 9th March 2019, 05:25 AM   #3007
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I saw a preview for the return of Empire, and I couldn't help but notice it included a shot of a white casket... Is somebody getting killed off the show?
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Old 9th March 2019, 06:22 AM   #3008
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Originally Posted by alfaniner View Post
16 felonies? Seems excessive.

In fact, it seems like a horrifying attack on Jussie Smollett.
I'm going with the overcharge and try to get a confession as part of the plea deal.

If they force them to do a trial and convict, he will likely do some jail time.
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Old 9th March 2019, 09:20 AM   #3009
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Originally Posted by ABC 7 Chicago
Experts believe it is likely he will strike a plea deal and potentially not spend time in prison.
I believe that the experts are wrong here. Not because a plea deal isn't the smart move. Instead because these experts either don't acknowledge or don't understand Smollett's mental illness.

The writing is on the wall for there to be no plea deal. Geragos will be fighting this until Smollett has no money left. That's because Smollett will not have it any other way. That's because Smollett insists that he is innocent of the charges. All of them. Here is the writing on the wall from just last night...

Originally Posted by Attorney Mark Geragos
The fact of an indictment is not unexpected. We knew that there is no way they would expose their evidence to a public airing and subject their witnesses to cross-examination.

What is unexpected however, is the prosecutorial overkill in charging 16 separate counts against Jussie. This redundant and vindictive indictment is nothing more than a desperate attempt to make headlines in order to distract from the internal investigation launched to investigate the outrageous leaking of false information by the Chicago Police Department and the shameless and illegal invasion of Jussie's privacy in tampering with his medical records.

Jussie adamantly maintains his innocence even if law enforcement has robbed him of that presumption.

https://abc7chicago.com/jussie-smoll...d-jury/5177586
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Old 9th March 2019, 09:26 AM   #3010
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Here is the full Grand Jury indictment. It's 36 pages and surprisingly has no redactions - so you do see Smollett's home address.

https://dig.abclocal.go.com/wls/docu...ctment-doc.pdf
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Old 9th March 2019, 10:17 AM   #3011
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Originally Posted by William Parcher View Post
I believe that the experts are wrong here. Not because a plea deal isn't the smart move. Instead because these experts either don't acknowledge or don't understand Smollett's mental illness.

The writing is on the wall for there to be no plea deal. Geragos will be fighting this until Smollett has no money left. That's because Smollett will not have it any other way. That's because Smollett insists that he is innocent of the charges. All of them. Here is the writing on the wall from just last night...




https://abc7chicago.com/jussie-smoll...d-jury/5177586
I dunno. I figure Geragos is just spamming the appropriate lawyer rhetoric for this point in his client's defense. I don't think it really tells us much about Smollett's state of mind or commitment to the narrative.

The most interesting thing is his insinuation that Smollett had real injuries, but the hospital staff conspired to doctor his medical records and undermine his claim.
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Old 9th March 2019, 10:29 AM   #3012
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
I don't think it really tells us much about Smollett's state of mind or commitment to the narrative.
Every time he opens his mouth he insists that he is completely innocent. This is reported everywhere and is most notable from his Good Morning America interview and his appearances on the set of Empire.

So yeah, we know his state of mind and his commitment to his own narrative.

I could be wrong about my prediction of no plea dealing, but I have laid out my reasoning. The primary mental illness is narcissistic personality disorder.
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Old 9th March 2019, 11:03 AM   #3013
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Originally Posted by William Parcher View Post
Every time he opens his mouth he insists that he is completely innocent. This is reported everywhere and is most notable from his Good Morning America interview and his appearances on the set of Empire.

So yeah, we know his state of mind and his commitment to his own narrative.

I could be wrong about my prediction of no plea dealing, but I have laid out my reasoning. The primary mental illness is narcissistic personality disorder.
Fair enough. Smollett's own statements are pretty damning. I think his lawyer's statements are just typical lawyering.
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Old 9th March 2019, 11:11 AM   #3014
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I think that if Smollett had said to Geragos, "Let's aim for a plea deal", or had said "Yeah Mark, I see what you are saying and agree we should do a plea deal" then I think the statement would read differently or maybe no statement at all.

Smollett wants the world to hear that he is fully innocent of all the charges, and he is using his lawyer to say the words.
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Old 9th March 2019, 11:19 AM   #3015
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Originally Posted by William Parcher View Post
Every time he opens his mouth he insists that he is completely innocent. This is reported everywhere and is most notable from his Good Morning America interview and his appearances on the set of Empire.



So yeah, we know his state of mind and his commitment to his own narrative.



I could be wrong about my prediction of no plea dealing, but I have laid out my reasoning. The primary mental illness is narcissistic personality disorder.
Yes, letís play internet doctor! You donít need a mental illness diagnosis to make your point. It isnít helpful. Itís enough to simply point out his behavior and base your reasoning in that.


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Old 9th March 2019, 11:26 AM   #3016
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Originally Posted by xjx388 View Post
Yes, letís play internet doctor! You donít need a mental illness diagnosis to make your point. It isnít helpful.
And it isn't harmful. Remember that we are on the Internet.

I am playing internet doctor and you are playing internet life coach.
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Old 9th March 2019, 01:44 PM   #3017
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Originally Posted by William Parcher View Post
If they found that people with no medical justification looked at the records (likely simple searches of computer files), there's nothing surprising or insane. This kind of thing can happen at any facility where someone famous shows up, either because of general curiosity or because someone wants to sell the information.

I've been working with computerized medical records for 30-odd years, and the thing is that once someone has access to patient information they're permitted to access any patient's information because on a given day any provider in a hospital may work with any patient. The understanding - and the law - is that you will never call up information that you don't actually need. Violating that principle calls for a draconian response, up to even criminal charges.
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Old 9th March 2019, 02:18 PM   #3018
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
Fair enough. Smollett's own statements are pretty damning. I think his lawyer's statements are just typical lawyering.

I don't have much faith in his attorney. Scott Peterson I'm sure would agree, but Geragos has spent many years doing talking-head spots on TV. Again, I think he's not going to get the outcome he hopes for.
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Old 9th March 2019, 02:28 PM   #3019
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Originally Posted by Babbylonian View Post
If they found that people with no medical justification looked at the records (likely simple searches of computer files), there's nothing surprising or insane. This kind of thing can happen at any facility where someone famous shows up, either because of general curiosity or because someone wants to sell the information.

I've been working with computerized medical records for 30-odd years, and the thing is that once someone has access to patient information they're permitted to access any patient's information because on a given day any provider in a hospital may work with any patient. The understanding - and the law - is that you will never call up information that you don't actually need. Violating that principle calls for a draconian response, up to even criminal charges.
The insanity comes from firing more than 60 people. You need to stop it cold long before you get to that number. The Director of Human Resources needs to be replaced. Totally insane.
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Old 9th March 2019, 02:50 PM   #3020
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Originally Posted by William Parcher View Post
The insanity comes from firing more than 60 people. You need to stop it cold long before you get to that number. The Director of Human Resources needs to be replaced. Totally insane.
Access logs are reviewed at need. You wouldn't find out that a patient's files are being accessed illicitly until you had reason to look. As for the head of HR getting sacked, that would be actually insane unless s/he knowingly hired people with a history of such illicit access.
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Old 9th March 2019, 02:57 PM   #3021
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Originally Posted by Babbylonian View Post
As for the head of HR getting sacked, that would be actually insane unless s/he knowingly hired people with a history of such illicit access.
Originally Posted by Babbylonian
Access logs are reviewed at need.
Reviewing of access logs was faulty because it didn't serve the need. More than 60 fired, including some who said they never looked at his file.

You must fire the head of HR because of this debacle. You can't lose more than 60 staff all at once because of some crazy breakdown in management. It's insane.
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Old 9th March 2019, 02:58 PM   #3022
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Originally Posted by Mumbles View Post
Don't like it? It's a fair point, and I'm unconcerned with what you somehow find "despicable".

If CPD has serious points against Smollett, they can present it at trial.
What's a fair point? Something in your below post I was referring to, or my calling it despicable?

Quote:
and although this really has nothing to do with the evidence at hand, I think it's interesting that the people howling that this is a "fake crime" are the usual suspects.

Same folks that thought it was okay to shoot Trayvon Martin for walking home.

Let's be honest, and say that they just hate people who aren't white. And then ignore them from there on out.

The only point you made here is that you are angry. The anger is palpable in a lot of your posts. Maybe you should be concerned when people find what you say despicable. People accused you of being racist a few weeks ago. I disagreed and said as much, but the above post doesn't help you, the discussion, or anything at all.

I have no clue what goes through your mind with a story like this. I mean I can't relate to how hard it must be to be black in this society and then to see this kinda stuff, and participate in such a thread.

I understand being emotional but I'm still gonna call it out.
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Old 9th March 2019, 03:11 PM   #3023
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Originally Posted by William Parcher View Post
Reviewing of access logs was faulty because it didn't serve the need. More than 60 fired, including some who said they never looked at his file.
1. Those people are probably lying.
2. No, the review seems to have found people who inappropriately accessed records. That's a win.

Quote:
You must fire the head of HR because of this debacle. You can't lose more than 60 staff all at once because of some crazy breakdown in management. It's insane.
I don't think you know what an HR department does. Their involvement here would have been processing the terminations ordered by someone else, almost certainly the CEO/board of directors.

It is made clear to everyone working in the medical field (yearly) with access to patient information that one can be subject to immediate termination for inappropriate use of that information.

I don't get your issue here. Should the large number of people mean that the hospital should be more lenient? In a high-profile situation such as this, that seems ill advised.
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Old 9th March 2019, 03:40 PM   #3024
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Originally Posted by Babbylonian View Post
I don't get your issue here.
It's insane when more than 60 people get fired from a hospital. I'm done discussing this. If anyone else thinks it's insane maybe they can grab the baton now.
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Old 9th March 2019, 04:13 PM   #3025
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Originally Posted by William Parcher View Post
It's insane when more than 60 people get fired from a hospital. I'm done discussing this. If anyone else thinks it's insane maybe they can grab the baton now.
It's like owing money to a bank.

If you discover one of your employees improperly accessing medically records, your employee has a problem.

If you discover sixty of your employees improperly accessing medically records, your hospital has a problem.
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Old 9th March 2019, 04:24 PM   #3026
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
If you discover sixty of your employees improperly accessing medically records, your hospital has a problem.
There could definitely be issues with training, but I guarantee that this kind of nonsense goes on all the time. I'm sure there are plenty of medical personnel who don't think the rules/laws apply to them unless they get a check from a tabloid...and get caught.
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Old 9th March 2019, 04:47 PM   #3027
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Originally Posted by Babbylonian View Post
There could definitely be issues with training, but I guarantee that this kind of nonsense goes on all the time. I'm sure there are plenty of medical personnel who don't think the rules/laws apply to them unless they get a check from a tabloid...and get caught.
This kind of nonsense goes on all the time, and yet 99% of hospitals aren't firing scores of people right and left. What makes Smollett's records so special? What problem is the hospital actually trying to solve?
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Old 9th March 2019, 04:51 PM   #3028
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Originally Posted by William Parcher View Post
It's insane when more than 60 people get fired from a hospital. I'm done discussing this. If anyone else thinks it's insane maybe they can grab the baton now.

I demand confirmation that 60 employees were fired before I carry the baton!!

https://chicago.suntimes.com/busines...edical-charts/

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The worker who spoke to the Sun-Times said she did not know how many workers were involved.
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Old 9th March 2019, 05:08 PM   #3029
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
This kind of nonsense goes on all the time, and yet 99% of hospitals aren't firing scores of people right and left. What makes Smollett's records so special? What problem is the hospital actually trying to solve?
Actually it doesn't go on all the time. Smollett's minor celebrity has a few people making bad decisions and they will pay for it. When people are caught accessing the records of people they have no right to access they are almost always terminated. Breach of privacy lawsuits are expensive. A lot more expensive than training low level workers, or hiring high level workers.
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Old 9th March 2019, 05:12 PM   #3030
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Originally Posted by Elagabalus View Post
I demand confirmation that 60 employees were fired before I carry the baton!!
I'm already over that and have moved on to the next insanity. What the hell is going on with that hot sauce bleach bottle!?
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Old 9th March 2019, 05:13 PM   #3031
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Originally Posted by William Parcher View Post
With 17 felony charges it looks like Chicago is going after Smollett in a fierce way. A typical false report perp might get one count and maybe not even a felony count.

Chicago seems to want to give Smollett a real beating, not a fake one. Seventeen felonies and then no jail?

Not necessarily, they could simply be trying to improve their chances of a conviction. I remember a case involving a drug smuggler who tricked people into taking bottles of rum laced with cocaine into the UK. One of the bottles went astray and someone died after drinking cocaine laced rum. In addition to being charged with 'conspiracy to import a prohibited substance' the police added 'failure of duty of care as an employer', the last charge was added simply as a 'back stop', just in case they could not get him on anything else.
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Old 9th March 2019, 06:18 PM   #3032
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
This kind of nonsense goes on all the time, and yet 99% of hospitals aren't firing scores of people right and left. What makes Smollett's records so special? What problem is the hospital actually trying to solve?
The records would inform a current news story, so more people would be curious or greedy enough to look despite the risk and they were caught because someone checked the logs. In the absence of a reported issue, nobody would be likely to look at the access logs and so most "perps" would never get caught.
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Old 9th March 2019, 06:38 PM   #3033
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Originally Posted by Babbylonian View Post
The records would inform a current news story, so more people would be curious or greedy enough to look despite the risk and they were caught because someone checked the logs. In the absence of a reported issue, nobody would be likely to look at the access logs and so most "perps" would never get caught.
Sounds like most hospitals aren't doing their jobs. Shouldn't routine log checks be part of every hospital's regular policy?
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Old 9th March 2019, 08:02 PM   #3034
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
Shouldn't routine log checks be part of every hospital's regular policy?
well, yeah if the patient has an ulcer, swallowed something odd like coins, etc.
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Old 10th March 2019, 06:20 AM   #3035
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Originally Posted by William Parcher View Post
Reviewing of access logs was faulty because it didn't serve the need. More than 60 fired, including some who said they never looked at his file.

You must fire the head of HR because of this debacle. You can't lose more than 60 staff all at once because of some crazy breakdown in management. It's insane.
It's OK because they only fired the blacks and the gays.
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Old 10th March 2019, 08:17 PM   #3036
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Originally Posted by qayak View Post
Actually it doesn't go on all the time. Smollett's minor celebrity has a few people making bad decisions and they will pay for it. When people are caught accessing the records of people they have no right to access they are almost always terminated. Breach of privacy lawsuits are expensive. A lot more expensive than training low level workers, or hiring high level workers.
Good point.
Maybe it's just a case of the hospital covering itself in anticipation of a lawsuit.

Just because Smollett is going to jail doesn't mean he can't sue the hospital if his medical privacy was illegally violated.

IOW, maybe they have no choice (or this is the legally prudent choice).

I suppose they may be sued regardless though. But at least they can say that they took swift action to hold those accountable who did it.
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Old 10th March 2019, 09:41 PM   #3037
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Iím not sure how routine checking of logs would work, logistically. Yes, nurses, doctors, clerks, billers, etc should only be checking the medical records for patients they need to in order to perform their duties. However, the mere fact that someone accessed a record isnít enough to tell you much.

Iím the manager for a largish medical practice. We have over 10000 patients in our record system, some of them locally high-profile. If Medical Assistant A looked at records for Patient B, there are any number of legitimate reasons for doing that. Maybe the patient needed a referral and thatís the MA who took the call. Checking the logs isnít going to help me much to see who might be inappropriately accessing records.

But if Patient B was the subject of a news story and medical information found its way into that news story, I would have a log of everyone who accessed those records. In my clinic, it would probably be almost everyone. But I could probably pinpoint who looked at what around the time the story came out. In a hospital with a few hundred employees, it would be much easier to narrow down who should not have access. That nurse in the neonatal unit had no business looking.

But you are only going to know to look when thereís a problem. Otherwise, how do you know who has a legitimate need to look and who doesnít? And for every patient who walks in the door? Practically impossible. Thatís thousands of access log records every day.


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Old 10th March 2019, 11:11 PM   #3038
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Originally Posted by alfaniner View Post
16 felonies? Seems excessive.

In fact, it seems like a horrifying attack on Jussie Smollett.
Well, funny, but true.

Remind me, how many white people got charged for calling police on black people just minding their own business? BBQ Becky, PP Patty, etc?

Hell, George Zimmerman straight-out murdered Trayvon Martin, and it took a nationwide march just to get him charged.
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Old 11th March 2019, 02:52 AM   #3039
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Originally Posted by Mumbles View Post
Well, funny, but true.

Remind me, how many white people got charged for calling police on black people just minding their own business? BBQ Becky, PP Patty, etc?

If you think that what Smollet is accused of doing is anything close to what those morons did I think you need to read this thread a little more carefully.

Anyway - I'll play along. Given what appears to be your self-proclaimed knowledge of policing and the law - please tell me what crime you would charge those idiots with?
(Pro-tip: You have to be able to produce evidence which shows malicious intent. Stupidity is not a crime - nor is being mistaken.)


Quote:
Hell, George Zimmerman straight-out murdered Trayvon Martin, and it took a nationwide march just to get him charged.


From your posts it appears that you must have some sort of first hand knowledge of what happened that night that was not presented as evidence in the trial.
The only way you could be so sure is if you personally witnessed the shooting or you heard Zimmerman state in his own words that he "straight-out murdered Trayvon Martin."
I must admit that either way I am baffled as to why you wouldn't give such damning evidence to the police.
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Last edited by rockinkt; 11th March 2019 at 02:52 AM. Reason: fix quotes
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Old 11th March 2019, 03:39 AM   #3040
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Originally Posted by rockinkt View Post
If you think that what Smollet is accused of doing is anything close to what those morons did I think you need to read this thread a little more carefully.

Anyway - I'll play along. Given what appears to be your self-proclaimed knowledge of policing and the law - please tell me what crime you would charge those idiots with?
(Pro-tip: You have to be able to produce evidence which shows malicious intent. Stupidity is not a crime - nor is being mistaken.)






From your posts it appears that you must have some sort of first hand knowledge of what happened that night that was not presented as evidence in the trial.
The only way you could be so sure is if you personally witnessed the shooting or you heard Zimmerman state in his own words that he "straight-out murdered Trayvon Martin."
I must admit that either way I am baffled as to why you wouldn't give such damning evidence to the police.
Not to derail the thread, but it's pretty obvious to anyone looking at the George Zimmerman case to see that he got away with manslaughter.
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