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Old 6th February 2018, 11:28 AM   #1161
caveman1917
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Originally Posted by TubbaBlubba View Post
Why is the work done by men so much more highly valued?
Because we live in a patriarchal society with a system of resource extraction from females to males. Basically capitalism is a system of resource extraction from the working class to the bourgeoisie by control of the means of production, and patriarchy is a system of resource extraction from females to males by control of the means of reproduction. I also think that things like housework differential and such is going to turn out more significantly than just the wage differential in the workplace.

Inter-generational accumulation of private property requires explicit father-son relations to exist, and so females got turned into the property of males. If you look at early Roman law you can see that the same "property" concept applies to objects, slaves and women. Basically, males start accumulating private property, then notice that to pass it on and allow inter-generational property accumulation they need to be able to say "this is my son" and so they took the females as property as well. As breeding stock for the next generation of proprietors, in a way. And you get the appearance of the institution of the family and the pater familias as its owner.
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Old 6th February 2018, 11:34 AM   #1162
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Originally Posted by caveman1917 View Post
Because we live in a patriarchal society with a system of resource extraction from females to males. Basically capitalism is a system of resource extraction from the working class to the bourgeoisie by control of the means of production, and patriarchy is a system of resource extraction from females to males by control of the means of reproduction.
Nonsense. Sheer nonsense.
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Old 6th February 2018, 11:57 AM   #1163
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Originally Posted by caveman1917 View Post
Because we live in a patriarchal society with a system of resource extraction from females to males. Basically capitalism is a system of resource extraction from the working class to the bourgeoisie by control of the means of production, and patriarchy is a system of resource extraction from females to males by control of the means of reproduction. I also think that things like housework differential and such is going to turn out more significantly than just the wage differential in the workplace.

Inter-generational accumulation of private property requires explicit father-son relations to exist, and so females got turned into the property of males. If you look at early Roman law you can see that the same "property" concept applies to objects, slaves and women. Basically, males start accumulating private property, then notice that to pass it on and allow inter-generational property accumulation they need to be able to say "this is my son" and so they took the females as property as well. As breeding stock for the next generation of proprietors, in a way. And you get the appearance of the institution of the family and the pater familias as its owner.
lol buddy it's precisely the opposite. If we're even going to play this game, at least acknowledge that breadwinners produce resources. Geez. Calling women "the working class" is just so laughable. You know what happens to bourgeoisie that don't provide resources? They end up homeless, or if they already have families (or ex-families) they have their driver's license stolen from them making it even harder for them to acquire resources compounding the problem leading to jail, which compounds the problem even more when they get out.
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Old 7th February 2018, 09:26 PM   #1164
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Mod WarningPlease redirect the conversation away from any given member's socio-political views and back towards something which, um, isn't that.
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Old 13th February 2018, 08:22 PM   #1165
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The below lengthy video is by a lawyer who cuts through the legalese in the lawsuit. This is a condensed, more neutral version than his earlier readings.

It's recommended that if you haven't already you read the facts section since he doesn't cover that in this video, and it is easy enough for non-lawyers to read.

Even though there is visuals it is just dissecting a document so it acts perfectly fine as audio-only if you are interested but can't sit still for an hour. (Ride the bus? Buy groceries?)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UFrNgu55WNo
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Old 15th February 2018, 02:02 PM   #1166
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Solid video. Surprised to learn that California labor law might well protect certain political activities (e.g. promulgating ungoogley views on gender or sex) even under at-will employment arrangements. Interested to see how it all comes out.
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Old 15th February 2018, 02:59 PM   #1167
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Glad to hear someone got use out of the video. There was another much shorter one about a week or two ago regarding higher ups in the company (I can't remember who.. youtube CEO?) making public statements about men and women being different which he thought was a terrible idea especially during a lawsuit.
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Old 16th February 2018, 04:56 PM   #1168
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National Labor Realtions Board sides with Google:
https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/...d-gender-memo/
https://www.theverge.com/2018/2/16/1...discrimination

Last edited by Giordano; 16th February 2018 at 04:58 PM.
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Old 16th February 2018, 07:25 PM   #1169
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From the first article:
"She says that specific Damore statements were "discriminatory and constituted sexual harassment""

huh?
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Old 17th February 2018, 10:29 AM   #1170
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Are they assuming that Damore leaked the memo to the entire company? I see time and time again the assertion that he sent a memo to everyone at the company claiming that women were inferior.
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Old 17th February 2018, 12:51 PM   #1171
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Originally Posted by pharphis View Post
Are they assuming that Damore leaked the memo to the entire company? I see time and time again the assertion that he sent a memo to everyone at the company claiming that women were inferior.
That is my understanding- not that is was "leaked "but that after sending it to HR Damore posted the memo on an internal Google forum available to all employees.
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Old 17th February 2018, 03:20 PM   #1172
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My understanding was that he shared it with a small "skeptic" group and after that at some point it was leaked.
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Old 18th February 2018, 03:49 PM   #1173
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Originally Posted by Giordano View Post
Yeah I really didn't see that working out. Looks like I managed to guess right.
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Old 18th February 2018, 07:27 PM   #1174
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Can someone summarize to a dummy like me what the NLRB has to do with anything? We're to assume they should have a good idea of what is legal or not I guess, but they aren't connected to the lawsuit in any way afaik
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Old 19th February 2018, 11:21 AM   #1175
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Originally Posted by pharphis View Post
Can someone summarize to a dummy like me what the NLRB has to do with anything? We're to assume they should have a good idea of what is legal or not I guess, but they aren't connected to the lawsuit in any way afaik
From an article linked to upthread:
Quote:
The National Labor Relations Board published its memo this week, which was issued in January after Damore filed a charge against his former employer on August 8. In spite of Damore withdrawing his NLRB filing in September, the board proceeded to examine and issue its own ruling
That seems pretty clear.
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Old 19th February 2018, 11:39 AM   #1176
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ah I missed that. Thanks
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Old 20th February 2018, 10:10 AM   #1177
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This NLRB memo discussed by the lawyer I linked earlier. Starts around 4 mins

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nH-MGmb_yu0

edit: oh and btw this one is less neutral. He shares counterpoints and arguments to the NRLB memo, unlike in the previous video. He does so in part by referencing the diversity memo and public statements by higher ups at google/youtube.

Last edited by pharphis; 20th February 2018 at 11:15 AM.
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Old 23rd February 2018, 02:02 PM   #1178
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Another lawyer on youtube covers the NLRB position (much much shorter)

https://youtu.be/Ql9avuEO570
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Old 6th March 2018, 11:05 AM   #1179
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Another lawsuit (Wilberg vs Google) against google covering very similar ground, this time alleging cover-up of emails showing illegal hiring practices (quotas, rather than mere "preference") among other things

https://www.documentcloud.org/docume...CIV-00442.html

Once again this has been covered by Rekieta Law,
https://youtu.be/0TLNGNhVRhw
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Old 6th March 2018, 03:18 PM   #1180
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Originally Posted by pharphis View Post
Another lawsuit (Wilberg vs Google) against google covering very similar ground, this time alleging cover-up of emails showing illegal hiring practices (quotas, rather than mere "preference") among other things

https://www.documentcloud.org/docume...CIV-00442.html

Once again this has been covered by Rekieta Law,
https://youtu.be/0TLNGNhVRhw
Google might have some problems there:
Female Google engineer says she faced “frequent sexual harassment”
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Old 6th March 2018, 05:51 PM   #1181
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That's a doozy. Basically comes down to how HR behaved, I would think. But isn't HR's actions appropriate? Tell them to make a formal complaint and go from there?
Honestly not sure. Some of it sounds half-believable only because it's Google (nerf guns, really?)
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Old 6th March 2018, 07:51 PM   #1182
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Originally Posted by Klimax View Post
Some of those things seem like very serious issues (if true). Drunken co-workers slapping women for no reason? Really? But they had to pressure her to file a formal complaint? Let's just say I'm skeptical of her claims.
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