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Tags Amanda Knox , Italy cases , Meredith Kercher , murder cases , Raffaele Sollecito

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Old 14th September 2020, 11:20 AM   #3321
abaddon
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Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
Deaths are public information. Cemeteries aren't private. Find a Grave gives out that kind of information all the time. It's what they do. Meredith is listed as buried there by Find a Grave, Arline is not. But that could be because, if buried in June, she just hasn't been listed yet. I just find it extremely odd that not a single mention of her passing would be mentioned by the media anywhere in England or here. Or by anyone on Twitter.
Sigh.

Searching the BMD gets me nothing. I am not buying it.

Searching by surname only gets me Meredith and John, but no Arline or anything remotely close.

Search by geo similarly produces nothing.

So unless Arline died and they took her out to sea, tied a half brick to her dead ankle and chucked her overboard just to avoid death registration, there is a problem with this tall tale.
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Old 14th September 2020, 11:37 AM   #3322
Stacyhs
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Originally Posted by abaddon View Post
Sigh.

Searching the BMD gets me nothing. I am not buying it.

Searching by surname only gets me Meredith and John, but no Arline or anything remotely close.

Search by geo similarly produces nothing.

So unless Arline died and they took her out to sea, tied a half brick to her dead ankle and chucked her overboard just to avoid death registration, there is a problem with this tall tale.
Raper said she was buried next to Meredith. My friend confirmed through the cemetery that Arline is not buried at Croydon. Arline Kercher is not dead. I have no idea why Raper said she was. I don't know if he just made it up or if he heard it somewhere else and just passed it on or what but he is wrong.
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Old 14th September 2020, 12:53 PM   #3323
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Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
Raper said she was buried next to Meredith. My friend confirmed through the cemetery that Arline is not buried at Croydon. Arline Kercher is not dead. I have no idea why Raper said she was. I don't know if he just made it up or if he heard it somewhere else and just passed it on or what but he is wrong.
I went back and looked again and in a comment on truejustice.org 'James Raper' specifically says Arline died on the 11th of June.
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Old 14th September 2020, 01:18 PM   #3324
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Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
It must have been. Just another example of their accuracy in reporting.

ETA: The comment is still there but I've looked online and there is nothing. If she supposedly died on June 11th, there certainly would have been something mentioned in the Brit tabloids.
Originally Posted by whoanellie View Post
I went back and looked again and in a comment on truejustice.org 'James Raper' specifically says Arline died on the 11th of June.
Yes, which I mentioned earlier.
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Old 14th September 2020, 01:26 PM   #3325
Numbers
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Originally Posted by abaddon View Post
Sigh.

Searching the BMD gets me nothing. I am not buying it.

Searching by surname only gets me Meredith and John, but no Arline or anything remotely close.

Search by geo similarly produces nothing.

So unless Arline died and they took her out to sea, tied a half brick to her dead ankle and chucked her overboard just to avoid death registration, there is a problem with this tall tale.
Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
Raper said she was buried next to Meredith. My friend confirmed through the cemetery that Arline is not buried at Croydon. Arline Kercher is not dead. I have no idea why Raper said she was. I don't know if he just made it up or if he heard it somewhere else and just passed it on or what but he is wrong.
Originally Posted by whoanellie View Post
I went back and looked again and in a comment on truejustice.org 'James Raper' specifically says Arline died on the 11th of June.
I don't know if this is the most thorough and complete way to search for a death record in England, but I went to a UK government site* and searched for probates for presons with the surname "Kercher" with date of death in 2020.

I found John L. Kercher (Meredith's father, apparently) who had died on 1 February 2020, and two other Kerchers, neither being named Arline; one male (by first name) had died on 8 April, and the other female (by first and middle names) on 9 April.

The database includes persons who died with or without a will; however, it may only include those decedents who had some possessions or property to distribute in a probate process. Thus, it is possible that infants and children or some adults may not be included, but this is probably not relevant to the present search.

There are limitations to the search:

1. It only identifies those who died with probate in England or Wales and

2. It identifies those known in the probate process by a specific surname.

* https://www.gov.uk/search-will-probate

ETA: This probate database did not include a listing for Meredith Kercher for the years 2007, 2008, or 2009.

Last edited by Numbers; 14th September 2020 at 01:33 PM.
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Old 14th September 2020, 01:31 PM   #3326
Stacyhs
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You're all overthinking this. She isn't dead.
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Old 14th September 2020, 02:03 PM   #3327
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Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
You're all overthinking this. She isn't dead.
While one cannot be 100% confident that the apparent original poster of the misinformation that Arline Kercher had died was repeating someone else's falsehood, I think that the misinformation is another PGP hoax.

Some years ago, a fuzzy (low-resolution) photo taken by a security camera in the parking structure across from the cottage was released by some Italian media. The photo included the image of a woman, whose face was not recognizable, but whose hair color may have been similar to Knox's. The media teased that this was (perhaps) an incriminating picture of Knox.

Later, Knox's defense released some photos from the parking structure's cameras showing very clear and identifiable faces of persons looking back toward the parking structure entrance/exit.

Those later photos of excellent resolution revealed that the earlier low-resolution photo allegedly (perhaps) of Knox was a hoax. The resolution of some other woman who happened to be passing through the parking structure was doctored to make it ambiguous. And to gain market share.
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Old 14th September 2020, 03:22 PM   #3328
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Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
Yes, which I mentioned earlier.
I'm slow.
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Old 15th September 2020, 06:46 AM   #3329
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Originally Posted by Numbers View Post
While one cannot be 100% confident that the apparent original poster of the misinformation that Arline Kercher had died was repeating someone else's falsehood, I think that the misinformation is another PGP hoax.

Some years ago, a fuzzy (low-resolution) photo taken by a security camera in the parking structure across from the cottage was released by some Italian media. The photo included the image of a woman, whose face was not recognizable, but whose hair color may have been similar to Knox's. The media teased that this was (perhaps) an incriminating picture of Knox.

Later, Knox's defense released some photos from the parking structure's cameras showing very clear and identifiable faces of persons looking back toward the parking structure entrance/exit.

Those later photos of excellent resolution revealed that the earlier low-resolution photo allegedly (perhaps) of Knox was a hoax. The resolution of {the photograph image of} some other woman who happened to be passing through the parking structure was doctored to make it ambiguous. And to gain market share.
I added some wording to the above post to make it more clear.
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Old 15th September 2020, 11:06 AM   #3330
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Originally Posted by Numbers View Post
While one cannot be 100% confident that the apparent original poster of the misinformation that Arline Kercher had died was repeating someone else's falsehood, I think that the misinformation is another PGP hoax.

Some years ago, a fuzzy (low-resolution) photo taken by a security camera in the parking structure across from the cottage was released by some Italian media. The photo included the image of a woman, whose face was not recognizable, but whose hair color may have been similar to Knox's. The media teased that this was (perhaps) an incriminating picture of Knox.

Later, Knox's defense released some photos from the parking structure's cameras showing very clear and identifiable faces of persons looking back toward the parking structure entrance/exit.

Those later photos of excellent resolution revealed that the earlier low-resolution photo allegedly (perhaps) of Knox was a hoax. The resolution of some other woman who happened to be passing through the parking structure was doctored to make it ambiguous. And to gain market share.
Originally Posted by Numbers View Post
I added some wording to the above post to make it more clear.
Those who are familiar with the history of the Knox - Sollecito case can no doubt list a number of hoaxes or intentional misrepresentations by the media, PGP, or by the authorities in the case.

To appreciate the effort to which some will go to carry out a hoax, here's an interesting recent elaborate hoax which tricked the Washington Post, as reported by the media outlet itself:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/lifes...32d_story.html

Last edited by Numbers; 15th September 2020 at 11:09 AM.
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Old 15th September 2020, 11:56 AM   #3331
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Paywall. But I think you're talking about the Burkman Wohl fake FBI raid?
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Old 15th September 2020, 02:58 PM   #3332
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Originally Posted by Numbers View Post
Those who are familiar with the history of the Knox - Sollecito case can no doubt list a number of hoaxes or intentional misrepresentations by the media, PGP, or by the authorities in the case.

To appreciate the effort to which some will go to carry out a hoax, here's an interesting recent elaborate hoax which tricked the Washington Post, as reported by the media outlet itself:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/lifes...32d_story.html
Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
Paywall. But I think you're talking about the Burkman Wohl fake FBI raid?
Yes. From the Washington Post article cited:

Quote:
A fake FBI raid orchestrated by right-wing activists dupes The Washington Post

A fake FBI raid staged Monday by a notorious right-wing activist and conspiracist turned into an embarrassment for The Washington Post, which briefly reported the faux event as if it were the real deal.

The “raid” on a house in Arlington, Va., actually involved actors recruited by Jacob Wohl, who has a history of making false accusations and has orchestrated dubious events in an effort to smear perceived opponents of President Trump.

This time, Wohl recruited actors to pose as FBI agents, telling them they would be participating in a scene for a “TV pilot,” one of the actors involved told the Daily Beast. The actors donned FBI-style windbreakers and pretended they were raiding a house during early-morning hours.
....
The Post and its reporter made the mistake of not checking with the FBI before publishing; they relied on an email tip reported by a "neighbor" (apparently one of the hoaxers) and a confirmation from Burkman.

The Post, about two hours after publication, updated the article to note that it was a fabrication, and later removed the article.

I wonder whether this latest TJMK story was an apparently false report of Meredith's mother's death meant to embarrass or to gain sympathy from TJMK readers who weren't in on what appears to be a hoax.

Another source:

https://www.thedailybeast.com/jacob-...roduction-says

Quote:
A supposed FBI raid on the home of an infamous Republican dirty trickster appears to have been a ruse—one that began falling apart even as its perpetrators managed to dupe a major national newspaper.

On Monday, a Virginia man who responded to a Craigslist ad seeking actors to play FBI agents for a television pilot came forward to say that he’d been roped into the latest hoax orchestrated by bumbling right-wing smear merchants Jack Burkman and Jacob Wohl.

Tommy Abraham told The Daily Beast in an interview on Monday that the Craigslist ad offered $400 cash payments to white male actors who agreed to don FBI badges and windbreakers and film a series of scenes at Burkman’s home in Arlington, Virginia. In the pre-dawn hours of Monday morning, Abraham said that he and a handful of others who responded to the ad converged on Burkman’s home and were filmed acting out an FBI raid there. Abraham supplied documentary evidence to back up his assertions, including emails from an address bearing the name of a company Wohl once ran.
....
An example of how one should be reasonably skeptical of claims and look for credible evidence.

Last edited by Numbers; 15th September 2020 at 03:07 PM.
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Old 15th September 2020, 03:05 PM   #3333
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If it was, it was incredibly stupid as it didn't take long to debunk.
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Old 16th September 2020, 06:16 AM   #3334
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For those interested in the more general topic of wrongful convictions - of which the Knox - Sollecito case is one example from Italy - there is a report on government misconduct for US cases of exonerations in 2019 recently issued by the National Registry of Exonerations*.

Here are excerpts from the summary of that report; points that appear common to the Knox - Sollecito case are highlighted:

Official misconduct contributed to the false convictions of 54% of defendants who were later exonerated. In general, the rate of misconduct is higher in more severe crimes.

Concealing exculpatory evidence—the most common type of misconduct—occurred in 44% of exonerations.

Black exonerees were slightly more likely than whites to have been victims of misconduct (57% to 52%), but this gap is much larger among exonerations for murder (78% to 64%)—especially those with death sentences (87% to 68%)—and for drug crimes (47% to 22%).

Police officers committed misconduct in 35% of cases. They were responsible for most of the witness tampering, misconduct in interrogation, and fabricating evidence—and a great deal of concealing exculpatory evidence and perjury at trial.

Prosecutors committed misconduct in 30% of the cases. Prosecutors were responsible for most of the concealing of exculpatory evidence and misconduct at trial, and a substantial amount of witness tampering.


...[W]e consider what led officials to commit misconduct. We conclude that the main causes are pervasive practices that permit or reward bad behavior, lack of resources to conduct high quality investigations and prosecutions,and ineffective leadership by those in command.




* https://www.law.umich.edu/special/ex...e_Innocent.pdf
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Old 16th September 2020, 08:09 AM   #3335
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Originally Posted by Numbers View Post
While one cannot be 100% confident that the apparent original poster of the misinformation that Arline Kercher had died was repeating someone else's falsehood, I think that the misinformation is another PGP hoax.
As the one who passed this info to this thread, I apologize. About the only redeeming feature of my action was that I supplied the source of the info. Given the source, I should have just left the whole thing alone. But to repeat: it's my bad, for passing it along.
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Old 16th September 2020, 10:25 AM   #3336
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Originally Posted by Bill Williams View Post
As the one who passed this info to this thread, I apologize. About the only redeeming feature of my action was that I supplied the source of the info. Given the source, I should have just left the whole thing alone. But to repeat: it's my bad, for passing it along.
I think its fair to say none of us knew whether or not the TJMK report was true or not without investigating.

Bill, I think you did the right thing to post on it here and giving the source, so that as a group we were able to do some investigation of the credibility of the information. Just because there are a multitude of hoaxes or misrepresentations on TJMK doesn't mean that once in a while there may true information in a post there.
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Old 16th September 2020, 10:43 AM   #3337
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I agree with Numbers. In fact, I'm glad you posted it here, Bill. It was a reminder of just how unreliable TJMK is as a source of information due to their strong guilt bias. I also have to admit to getting a laugh at Quennell's expense.
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Old 16th September 2020, 04:52 PM   #3338
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Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
I agree with Numbers. In fact, I'm glad you posted it here, Bill. It was a reminder of just how unreliable TJMK is as a source of information due to their strong guilt bias. I also have to admit to getting a laugh at Quennell's expense.


I still have to say that IMO the "is Arline Kercher dead" issue is not definitively settled.

Firstly, I find it hard to imagine that anyone - TJMK nutters included - would report such specific aspects as the date of her death and the fact that she's buried next to Meredith.

Secondly, and with specific regard to those TJMK nutters, it's not as if this matter has any relevance at all to their central thesis that Knox and Sollecito were involved in Kercher's death (whereas I could much more see someone there inventing (for example) something related to evidence in the case). So I just don't see any upside for anyone there to lie about Arline's death. And even now (and thankfully), nobody over there appears to be claiming that Arline's death might in any way be linked to Knox and Sollecito having "got away with it".

And thirdly, I don't think that the TJMK claim about Arline Kercher's death has yet been reliably falsified. I simply don't think, for example, that somebody working at Croydon Cemetery can necessarily be relied upon to state definitively whether or not Arline is buried alongside Meredith. And I also don't think that the absence of Arline's name on probate records is - at this point in time - any kind of proof that she hasn't died: those records can often lag considerably.


For me, the only way of falsifying (or proving) this claim reliably and accurately at this time would be to physically visit Croydon Cemetery and go to Meredith's grave side: either Arline will not be buried there (which will obviously falsify that part of the claim at least, but even this will not reliably falsify the claim that she died), or Arline will have been buried there.

Personally, I have very little interest in this topic - other than of course feeling sorrow at Arline's death (if the claim is true) - so there's zero chance that I'll be going across London to visit the cemetery. On the other hand, I would have thought it far from unlikely that someone affiliated to TJMK (perhaps one of their huge cadre of European lawyers and other experts.....) will go to visit the cemetery. I guess we may find out for sure that way.
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Old 16th September 2020, 05:03 PM   #3339
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Originally Posted by LondonJohn View Post
I still have to say that IMO the "is Arline Kercher dead" issue is not definitively settled.

Firstly, I find it hard to imagine that anyone - TJMK nutters included - would report such specific aspects as the date of her death and the fact that she's buried next to Meredith.

Secondly, and with specific regard to those TJMK nutters, it's not as if this matter has any relevance at all to their central thesis that Knox and Sollecito were involved in Kercher's death (whereas I could much more see someone there inventing (for example) something related to evidence in the case). So I just don't see any upside for anyone there to lie about Arline's death. And even now (and thankfully), nobody over there appears to be claiming that Arline's death might in any way be linked to Knox and Sollecito having "got away with it".

And thirdly, I don't think that the TJMK claim about Arline Kercher's death has yet been reliably falsified. I simply don't think, for example, that somebody working at Croydon Cemetery can necessarily be relied upon to state definitively whether or not Arline is buried alongside Meredith. And I also don't think that the absence of Arline's name on probate records is - at this point in time - any kind of proof that she hasn't died: those records can often lag considerably.


For me, the only way of falsifying (or proving) this claim reliably and accurately at this time would be to physically visit Croydon Cemetery and go to Meredith's grave side: either Arline will not be buried there (which will obviously falsify that part of the claim at least, but even this will not reliably falsify the claim that she died), or Arline will have been buried there.

Personally, I have very little interest in this topic - other than of course feeling sorrow at Arline's death (if the claim is true) - so there's zero chance that I'll be going across London to visit the cemetery. On the other hand, I would have thought it far from unlikely that someone affiliated to TJMK (perhaps one of their huge cadre of European lawyers and other experts.....) will go to visit the cemetery. I guess we may find out for sure that way.
It's true as you state that it is not absolutely determined that Arline Kercher is not deceased.

The question, in part, is how reliable is the Croydon cemetery informant.

Except for the TJMK posts, we have no confirmation of her death.

Last edited by Numbers; 16th September 2020 at 05:05 PM.
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Old 16th September 2020, 05:16 PM   #3340
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The fact that James Raper specifically claimed she is buried next to Meredith and the cemetery personnel said clearly she is not buried at Croyden disproves Raper's claim. The fact that there is ZERO corroborating evidence of Arline's death is pretty strong evidence in itself that she is not dead. Come on, LJ, do you really think the tabloids would not have reported if she had died? This case was huge news in the UK and some reporter would have made a few bucks dredging it up again. No way would this have flown under the radar.

Last edited by Stacyhs; 16th September 2020 at 05:18 PM.
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Old 16th September 2020, 07:27 PM   #3341
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Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
The fact that James Raper specifically claimed she is buried next to Meredith and the cemetery personnel said clearly she is not buried at Croyden disproves Raper's claim. The fact that there is ZERO corroborating evidence of Arline's death is pretty strong evidence in itself that she is not dead. Come on, LJ, do you really think the tabloids would not have reported if she had died? This case was huge news in the UK and some reporter would have made a few bucks dredging it up again. No way would this have flown under the radar.
I agree with this.

John Kercher's death was apparently reported widely in the UK. But the articles about his death were not so much about his life, it seems from a brief survey, but rather about the murder of Meredith Kercher and the Knox - Sollecito case.

This holds true even for relatively sober and responsible media such as the BBC. Here's an example from a BBC report on his death, where the part discussing Meredith Kercher's relationship to him, her death and the murder/rape case are discussed:

Quote:
Meredith Kercher's dad John 'died from fall' in Croydon

The father of murdered British exchange student Meredith Kercher died from "a fall", police have said.

John Kercher, 77, was found collapsed on Windmill Road in Croydon, south London, on 13 January and died from his injuries in hospital on 1 February.
The Met said no-one was wanted over Mr Kercher's death and a file was being prepared for the coroner.

His daughter Miss Kercher, 21, was stabbed to death on a student exchange trip to Perugia, Italy, in 2007.

Mr Kercher was found with a broken leg and arm and Det Supt Steve Andrews said police were treating his death as "unexplained".

"We are keeping an open mind as to the circumstances of his death, including whether he may have been involved in a collision," he said at the time.
The Met said a post-mortem was carried out on 11 February and found Mr Kercher's injuries "were consistent with a fall".

In 2009, Amanda Knox and her then boyfriend Rafaele Sollecito were convicted of Miss Kercher's murder after it was claimed they had all been involved in a sex game that had gone wrong.

Prosecutors later alleged the murder resulted from a heated argument over cleanliness in the Perugia apartment.

Two years later, both Ms Knox and Italian Mr Sollecito were cleared of Miss Kercher's murder after doubts were raised over procedures used to gather DNA evidence.

A retrial was ordered in 2013 after an appeal by prosecutors, who argued that important DNA evidence had been disregarded, and in 2014 the original guilty verdicts were reinstated.

But in a final ruling in the long-running case in March 2015, Italy's top appeals court overturned the convictions again.

Rudy Guede was also jailed for Miss Kercher's murder and he was sentenced to 16 years in prison.
About one-half of the article is about the murder/rape case. The article includes one photo of John Kercher with his daughter Stephanie, one of Meredith, and one of Amanda Knox (with Colin Sutherland).

So if Arline Kercher had died, I suspect that at least the tabloids would have used that sad event as an opportunity to replay the events of the crimes against Meredith and the murder/rape case.

Last edited by Numbers; 16th September 2020 at 08:10 PM.
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Old 16th September 2020, 09:24 PM   #3342
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John Kercher's death absolutely was NOT widely reported in the British media. In fact, from memory, I think only the Mail (with which John Kercher had strong ties and many contacts/friends), the BBC and (IIRC) The Independent had anything at all about it. And bear in mind that there was an immediate clickbait on the John Kercher death story, since this stupid hit-and-run theory was being considered by the poiice as a possible cause of death.

I also strongly disagree on two other factors:

1) That had Arline Kercher really died, there would have had to be fairly extensive media coverage of it. This is nonsense. Nobody outside our commentary community would have had any idea of who Arline was, to start with. Secondly, how would they have found out? Do you think they have reporters scanning hospital and coroners' records regularly?

If Arline Kercher died as the result of a known illness (which I'd suggest is probable), then there wouldn't even have been a coroner's inquest. The only way the press would even find out is if someone told them. The Kercher family's direct conduit into the British press, John Kercher, was dead. It would have had to be one of the surviving children. And what possible motivation would they have had to contact a media outlet to let them know about their mother's death?

I'd further suggest that even if a British media outlet HAD found out about her death, they would only have reported it (if at all) in a very minor way indeed. As I said, John Kercher's death, what with all his friends in the press and all, and what with the "whodunit" mystery BS hanging over his death at the time, only got extremely minor coverage in a small handful of news titles (giving those titles an excuse for setting out the details of the murder and the trials once again, into the bargain...)


2) I just don't think that the cemetery staff at Croydon Cemetery can automatically be counted as reliable and accurate. Croydon Cemetery is HUGE. And I might be wrong, but I'm going to doubt that they have the highest calibre of people working in cemetery admin. I hold that the only way to ensure accurate verification on this matter is to visit the cemetery personally and to see whether or not there's a grave for Arline alongside that of Meredith.


But there you go. I'm genuinely uninterested in this story (and whether or not it's true) - but I'm still concerned about trying to analyse it sceptically. And on that front, I'm certainly prepared to accept at this point that there seem to be big question marks about the veracity of the story reported in TJMK. But I absolutely do not think that the claim can be entirely rejected yet.

Last edited by LondonJohn; 16th September 2020 at 09:26 PM.
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Old 17th September 2020, 12:04 AM   #3344
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As for the Croyden Cemetery staff member not knowing if Arline is buried there, they do have burial records so I don't think they'd tell my friend she wasn't buried there without looking it up.

"That had Arline Kercher really died, there would have had to be fairly extensive media coverage of it. This is nonsense. Nobody outside our commentary community would have had any idea of who Arline was, to start with."

Now, that is just not true, LJ. This trial was extensively covered in England. Many people knew who Meredith's parents were which is why John's death was extensively covered as I showed in my post above, including by the BBC. Hell, the SUN had a Knox story as recently as last April 29th.

ETA: I sent a PM to my friend and just heard back. She said the cemetery employee checked the burial records on the computer. Since the supposed death was June 1, there was plenty of time for the burial to be recorded.

Last edited by Stacyhs; 17th September 2020 at 01:46 AM.
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Old 17th September 2020, 03:04 AM   #3345
Sergei Walankov
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Monica Napoleoni gets three-and-a-half years, if I'm reading this correctly. Also featured in the report as somebody's lawyer is Francesco Maresca.

http://www.umbria24.it/cronaca/perug...e-altri-cinque
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Old 17th September 2020, 04:29 AM   #3346
Bill Williams
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Originally Posted by Sergei Walankov View Post
Monica Napoleoni gets three-and-a-half years, if I'm reading this correctly. Also featured in the report as somebody's lawyer is Francesco Maresca.

http://www.umbria24.it/cronaca/perug...e-altri-cinque
Oh. My. God.
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Old 17th September 2020, 04:49 AM   #3347
Numbers
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Originally Posted by Sergei Walankov View Post
Monica Napoleoni gets three-and-a-half years, if I'm reading this correctly. Also featured in the report as somebody's lawyer is Francesco Maresca.

http://www.umbria24.it/cronaca/perug...e-altri-cinque
Thanks for posting this.

Here's a Google translation:

Quote:
Perugia, former homicide boss {provisionally convicted and} sentenced:
Napoleoni and five others

Three years and three months {sentence} for the super policewoman for unauthorized access to the computer system. The defense announces an appeal

The former head of the homicide section of the Perugia mobile squad sentenced to three years and three months. This is the sentence issued, after five hours {deliberation} in the court chamber, by the criminal section of the court of Perugia (court president Roberti, on the side Cavedoni and Sconocchia) against the deputy commissioner Monica Napoleoni for unauthorized access to the computer system dating back to the end of 2012 when the State police investigator allegedly used her power as a public official to initiate arbitrary investigations on a psychologist.

Former homicide boss sentenced
The lawyer Nicola Di Mario, who defends her in the trial, is waiting to read the reasons for the sentence, but has already announced an appeal. The lawyer also represents Lorena Zugarini, colleague of Napoleoni, who was also sentenced to three years and two months for unauthorized access to the inter-force computer system, while a lighter sentence, i.e. one year, for another policewoman Stefania Squarta defended by lawyer Francesco Maresca: "Lower penalties were applied than those requested by the prosecutor (Giuseppe Petrazzini, ed.), but we will challenge the ruling". In the sentence, the judges sentenced three other people, with suspended sentences ranging from one year and three months to 6 months and 15 days, while three others were acquitted.

The civil party, namely the psychologist, represented by the lawyer Valeriano Tascini, was awarded a provisional amount of 10,000 and 5,000 euros for one of the two daughters.
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Old 17th September 2020, 05:16 AM   #3348
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Originally Posted by LondonJohn View Post
John Kercher's death absolutely was NOT widely reported in the British media. In fact, from memory, I think only the Mail (with which John Kercher had strong ties and many contacts/friends), the BBC and (IIRC) The Independent had anything at all about it. And bear in mind that there was an immediate clickbait on the John Kercher death story, since this stupid hit-and-run theory was being considered by the poiice as a possible cause of death.

I also strongly disagree on two other factors:

1) That had Arline Kercher really died, there would have had to be fairly extensive media coverage of it. This is nonsense. Nobody outside our commentary community would have had any idea of who Arline was, to start with. Secondly, how would they have found out? Do you think they have reporters scanning hospital and coroners' records regularly?

If Arline Kercher died as the result of a known illness (which I'd suggest is probable), then there wouldn't even have been a coroner's inquest. The only way the press would even find out is if someone told them. The Kercher family's direct conduit into the British press, John Kercher, was dead. It would have had to be one of the surviving children. And what possible motivation would they have had to contact a media outlet to let them know about their mother's death?

I'd further suggest that even if a British media outlet HAD found out about her death, they would only have reported it (if at all) in a very minor way indeed. As I said, John Kercher's death, what with all his friends in the press and all, and what with the "whodunit" mystery BS hanging over his death at the time, only got extremely minor coverage in a small handful of news titles (giving those titles an excuse for setting out the details of the murder and the trials once again, into the bargain...)


2) I just don't think that the cemetery staff at Croydon Cemetery can automatically be counted as reliable and accurate. Croydon Cemetery is HUGE. And I might be wrong, but I'm going to doubt that they have the highest calibre of people working in cemetery admin. I hold that the only way to ensure accurate verification on this matter is to visit the cemetery personally and to see whether or not there's a grave for Arline alongside that of Meredith.


But there you go. I'm genuinely uninterested in this story (and whether or not it's true) - but I'm still concerned about trying to analyse it sceptically. And on that front, I'm certainly prepared to accept at this point that there seem to be big question marks about the veracity of the story reported in TJMK. But I absolutely do not think that the claim can be entirely rejected yet.
Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
LJ, I think that Arline Kercher has received considerable coverage in the world media, including UK media, specifically related to the murder of Meredith and the trials following, including those of Knox and Sollecito. A Google search will provide many hits on her name.

In this one, Arline Kercher's occupation is given as "Meredith's Mother":

https://thestickyfacts.com/arline-kercher-facts/
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Old 17th September 2020, 05:25 AM   #3349
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Here's the Google translation of another article from Italy on Napoleoni's provisional conviction:

Quote:
Abusive investigation of the psychiatrist appointed by the judge for the divorce {of Napoleoni and her husband}, the policewoman of the investigation into the Kercher crime sentenced

Two other members of the police convicted: they would have exploited their position for personal interests.

Three years and three months of imprisonment for the former head of the homicide section of the Perugia Flying Squad Monica Napoleoni, accused of having used her position to initiate arbitrary investigations on a psychologist appointed by the Court in the context of a dispute between her and the ex-husband.

Her colleague Lorena Zugarini was also sentenced to three years and two months for unauthorized access to the inter-force IT system, and one year for the policewoman Stefania Squarta.

The judges sentenced three other people who allegedly helped Napoleoni in various capacities, with sentences ranging from one year and three months to 6 months and 15 days, with the benefit of suspension. Three other defendants acquitted.

The psychologist who had filed a civil action, through the lawyer Valeriano Tascini, was awarded a provisional amount of 10 thousand euros, while 5 thousand went to both daughters of the professional.

The defendants were defended by lawyers Nicola Di Mario, Francesco Maresca, Alessandro Bacchi, Gloria Isidori, Guido Rondoni, Alessandro Di Baio and Bruno Naso.
Source: https://www.perugiatoday.it/cronaca/...WzUu-_xM0roS40

ETA: Note that the crime charged was committed by a group of police (apparently under Napoleoni's direction) in what in the US would be termed a criminal conspiracy.

Last edited by Numbers; 17th September 2020 at 05:32 AM.
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Old 17th September 2020, 06:56 AM   #3350
LondonJohn
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Originally Posted by Numbers View Post
LJ, I think that Arline Kercher has received considerable coverage in the world media, including UK media, specifically related to the murder of Meredith and the trials following, including those of Knox and Sollecito. A Google search will provide many hits on her name.

In this one, Arline Kercher's occupation is given as "Meredith's Mother":

https://thestickyfacts.com/arline-kercher-facts/


Of course her name featured regularly - when either the murder itself or the various trials (especially, obviously, when the Kercher family gave press conferences.....) were live news.

Not now though.

And I go right back to pointing out: how on earth would the media even have known that Arline Kercher had died - especially if she'd died (as I deem likely) from a long-term health condition, in home or a hospital/hospice? As I said, in those sorts of circumstances, it would have required one of her children (or a friend who knew that she'd died) to contact the media themselves. And as I also said: why would they want to do that?

Lastly, I go back to my belief that the report of her death was extremely specific - giving the exact date of her death, and the precise location of her grave. I'd have expected someone who was either lying or mistaken in claiming her death to have instead written something perhaps like this: "I understand that Arline Kercher died a few months or so ago"

Maybe someone over at the cesspit will eventually post - either with verification (perhaps including a photo of the grave), or with a refutation of the claim. Or maybe someone else will feel compelled to make the effort to visit the cemetery to check it out. Maybe time will tell, either way.
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Old 17th September 2020, 06:58 AM   #3351
LondonJohn
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Originally Posted by Numbers View Post
Here's the Google translation of another article from Italy on Napoleoni's provisional conviction:



Source: https://www.perugiatoday.it/cronaca/...WzUu-_xM0roS40

ETA: Note that the crime charged was committed by a group of police (apparently under Napoleoni's direction) in what in the US would be termed a criminal conspiracy.


I mean, we don't want to say we t...... hold on, yes of course we DO want to say it:

We Told You So



(I suppose it'll be *interesting* to see how the nutters try to spin this - or whether they try to ignore it completely...)
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Old 17th September 2020, 07:07 AM   #3352
Sergei Walankov
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A police culture of asking how high when told by superiors to jump. Explains a lot.
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Old 17th September 2020, 10:37 AM   #3353
Stacyhs
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Originally Posted by Sergei Walankov View Post
Monica Napoleoni gets three-and-a-half years, if I'm reading this correctly. Also featured in the report as somebody's lawyer is Francesco Maresca.

http://www.umbria24.it/cronaca/perug...e-altri-cinque
Thanks for posting this. It does rather put a damper on the way some have claimed the Perugia police were so honorable, honest and above lying.
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Old 17th September 2020, 10:58 AM   #3354
Bill Williams
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Statement from Amanda Knox:

In his memoir, Raffaele Sollecito describes the threats & abuse Monica Napoleoni, head of the Perugia homicide squad, subjected us to. She, & two other officers, have now been convicted of similar abuses of power in a separate case. Ve l'abbiamo detto.

If you haven't read Honor Bound, I recommend it. Raffaele was subjected to incredible injustice simply b/c he was my alibi. His refusal to compromise his honesty & integrity for a girl he knew for only 5 days is both heroic & underappreciated.

Meanwhile, Raffaele & I continue to be held accountable for statements we were coerced into signing during interrogations orchestrated & conducted by this corrupt cop. Fun fact: I'm still wrongfully convicted of slander, & Raffaele was denied compensation, because of that.
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Old 17th September 2020, 11:17 AM   #3355
Stacyhs
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Originally Posted by LondonJohn View Post
Of course her name featured regularly - when either the murder itself or the various trials (especially, obviously, when the Kercher family gave press conferences.....) were live news.

Not now though.
That doesn't mean that people have forgotten who she is though.

Quote:
And I go right back to pointing out: how on earth would the media even have known that Arline Kercher had died - especially if she'd died (as I deem likely) from a long-term health condition, in home or a hospital/hospice? As I said, in those sorts of circumstances, it would have required one of her children (or a friend who knew that she'd died) to contact the media themselves. And as I also said: why would they want to do that?
Come on, LJ. Do you think this wouldn't have gotten out through someone? A friend of a friend of a friend of the family? People have big mouths. They talk. A grave digger? A headstone maker? An employee of the hospital/hospice down at the pub? People call tabloids and sell stories.

Quote:
Lastly, I go back to my belief that the report of her death was extremely specific - giving the exact date of her death, and the precise location of her grave.
Exactly. The precise location J Raper gave was wrong according to Croyden Cemetery itself.

Quote:
I'd have expected someone who was either lying or mistaken in claiming her death to have instead written something perhaps like this: "I understand that Arline Kercher died a few months or so ago"
Why? How would that change anything? If he was concerned with accuracy, he'd have given some evidence of how he knew this.


Quote:
Maybe someone over at the cesspit will eventually post - either with verification (perhaps including a photo of the grave), or with a refutation of the claim. Or maybe someone else will feel compelled to make the effort to visit the cemetery to check it out. Maybe time will tell, either way.
Do you remember when Quennell claimed that Mignini only dropped his lawsuit against Sollecito and Gumbel because they agreed to publicly admit they lied in their book and would publicly apologize to him? None of that was true. In the current "Arline has died" Front Page article they state that John Kercher was killed in a 'hit and run' accident which is untrue. TJMK is not known for its accuracy in reporting. Clearly TJMK isn't interested in verifying what James Raper claimed.
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Old 17th September 2020, 11:40 AM   #3356
Numbers
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Originally Posted by LondonJohn View Post
Of course her name featured regularly - when either the murder itself or the various trials (especially, obviously, when the Kercher family gave press conferences.....) were live news.

Not now though.

And I go right back to pointing out: how on earth would the media even have known that Arline Kercher had died - especially if she'd died (as I deem likely) from a long-term health condition, in home or a hospital/hospice? As I said, in those sorts of circumstances, it would have required one of her children (or a friend who knew that she'd died) to contact the media themselves. And as I also said: why would they want to do that?

Lastly, I go back to my belief that the report of her death was extremely specific - giving the exact date of her death, and the precise location of her grave. I'd have expected someone who was either lying or mistaken in claiming her death to have instead written something perhaps like this: "I understand that Arline Kercher died a few months or so ago"

Maybe someone over at the cesspit will eventually post - either with verification (perhaps including a photo of the grave), or with a refutation of the claim. Or maybe someone else will feel compelled to make the effort to visit the cemetery to check it out. Maybe time will tell, either way.
Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
That doesn't mean that people have forgotten who she is though.



Come on, LJ. Do you think this wouldn't have gotten out through someone? A friend of a friend of a friend of the family? People have big mouths. They talk. A grave digger? A headstone maker? An employee of the hospital/hospice down at the pub? People call tabloids and sell stories.



Exactly. The precise location J Raper gave was wrong according to Croyden Cemetery itself.



Why? How would that change anything? If he was concerned with accuracy, he'd have given some evidence of how he knew this.




Do you remember when Quennell claimed that Mignini only dropped his lawsuit against Sollecito and Gumbel because they agreed to publicly admit they lied in their book and would publicly apologize to him? None of that was true. In the current "Arline has died" Front Page article they state that John Kercher was killed in a 'hit and run' accident which is untrue. TJMK is not known for its accuracy in reporting. Clearly TJMK isn't interested in verifying what James Raper claimed.
It may be useful to look for some evidence.

Start with the images on this site:

https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/...a_cara-kercher

There are photos of Meredith Kercher's grave on the referenced web site. As of 16 Sep 2018, a photo shows that the grave site to the right of her gravestone marker was occupied, but the site to the left was open.

Is the grave site to the left now occupied? If so, who is buried there? If the site remains unoccupied, does that falsify the TJMK claim?

According to Stacyhs's informant, who spoke to staff at the Croydon cemetery, that cemetery has no record of a burial of Arline Kercher.

Last edited by Numbers; 17th September 2020 at 11:43 AM.
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Old 17th September 2020, 02:24 PM   #3357
Stacyhs
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Arline lives in Croydon. As Meredith is buried in Croydon Minster/aka Croydon Parish Church and JR claims she is buried there, too, one could logically assume Arline's death would be mentioned in the parish newsletter for May/June. It is not:



https://www.croydonminster.org/wp-co...20.pdf#page=16

ETA: Nor is it mention for July/August which I can post if requested.

Last edited by Stacyhs; 17th September 2020 at 02:26 PM.
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Old 17th September 2020, 02:41 PM   #3358
LondonJohn
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Croydon Cemetery (in fact it's now called Mitcham Road Cemetery) is a council-run cemetery. It's got absolutely nothing to do with Croydon Minster/Croydon Parish Church. Indeed, it's under the umbrella of no religious institution whatsoever. It's a municipal facility.

And institutions such as Croydon Minster typically only carry death/remembrance notices for congregational parishioners in any case. I don't know what religion (if any) Arline Kercher observed, or if she was a member of the congregation of any place of worship.
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Old 17th September 2020, 02:47 PM   #3359
LondonJohn
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Originally Posted by Numbers View Post
It may be useful to look for some evidence.

Is the grave site to the left now occupied? If so, who is buried there? If the site remains unoccupied, does that falsify the TJMK claim?

If reliable evidence can be obtained that as of right now there's no grave of Arline Kercher alongside Meredith's grave, then of course it entirely falsifies the claim that the two are buried next to each other; it would also go a long way - but not all the way - to falsifying the claim that Arline Kercher had died.



Quote:
According to Stacyhs's informant, who spoke to staff at the Croydon cemetery, that cemetery has no record of a burial of Arline Kercher.

I know. And this is pretty good evidence. But I repeat my belief that one cannot necessarily assume that a council worker at a (very large) council cemetery will be 100% accurate, I'm afraid.
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Old 17th September 2020, 02:52 PM   #3360
Stacyhs
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Sorry, I meant to say that Meredith's funeral was held in Croydon Minster/Croydon Parish Church and she's buried in Mitcham Rd. Cemetery. My allergies are flaring up so badly right now I can hardly see straight through the puffy eyes and the constant sneezing and sniffling is driving me nuts. The smoke in the air from the fires isn't helping any either. We've got the worst air pollution in the world right now.
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