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Old 12th August 2012, 07:24 PM   #1
cjnewson88
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FBI 9/11 Investigations

What investigations did the FBI do following 9/11? According to Chris Mohr's site;

Quote:
The FBI did a new (post-NIST ) investigation that took three years, used 7000 agents and cost $70 million. 9/11Truth has not yet even responded to this report.
Which investigation was this? Can someone provide a link thanks.

Also, it is my understanding the FBI investigated the 4 aircraft crashes with help from the NTSB. Did they ever publicly released a report for this? Or was it just incorporated into the 9/11 Commission Report?

Lastly, what other 9/11 investigations were completed aside from the 9/11 Commission (doesn't have to be an FBI one)? Is there a list of these anywhere? If not, maybe this thread can list them.

Cheers.
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Old 12th August 2012, 07:54 PM   #2
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PENTTBOM
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Old 12th August 2012, 08:13 PM   #3
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Thanks ElMondo. Was PENTTBOM released as a stand alone report or did it just make up part of the Commission Report?

Edit: Found a summary here.
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Old 12th August 2012, 08:21 PM   #4
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Quote:
used 7000 agents
The FBI has slightly under 14,000 agents. That half of them would be involved in a single (albeit large) investigation seems off. I suspect that number includes every single agent who had a report which somehow, somewhere involved 911. E.G. address and records checks, interviews of relatives, etc...
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Old 12th August 2012, 08:28 PM   #5
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According to the wiki page linked, at the time they only had 11,000
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Old 13th August 2012, 09:11 AM   #6
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Originally Posted by cjnewson88 View Post
Thanks ElMondo. Was PENTTBOM released as a stand alone report or did it just make up part of the Commission Report?

Edit: Found a summary here.
Whoops. Sorry for both the terseness as well as not responding earlier (was fighting a headache and being really short with my posts... you should see what I wrote on sports forums last night ). The answer is actually yes to both: It was indeed its own standalone report, plus IIRC, it formed the basis of much of the hijackers relations plus activities in the 9/11 Commision Report.
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Old 13th August 2012, 09:57 AM   #7
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Originally Posted by Robrob View Post
The FBI has slightly under 14,000 agents. That half of them would be involved in a single (albeit large) investigation seems off. I suspect that number includes every single agent who had a report which somehow, somewhere involved 911. E.G. address and records checks, interviews of relatives, etc...
You're sort of right - a lot of agents were indeed pulled off to follow up on secondary and below types of investigations. For example, Robert Wittman - an art crime specialist (I kid you not, see: http://www.amazon.com/Priceless-Unde.../dp/0307461475 for details) said in his book:
Quote:
Like almost every agent on my squad and others, I was assigned to check out the hundreds of dubious and frantic calls, reports of terrorists, anthrax, the Taliban, and Middle Eastern-looking men lurking and plotting in Philadelphia neighborhoods.
On the other hand, other books said that significant amounts of personnel were diverted from projects to handle 9/11, and from what I recall, it was not for small tasks or insignificant periods of time. Wittman makes mention of that:
Quote:
Today's FBI is so focused on preventing another terrorist attack that nearly a third of the bureau's thirteen thousand agents now spend their time chasing the ghost of Bin Laden.
So sure, keep things in perspective: It did happen, but there were still a lot of agents assigned to primary tasks.

While the information that's out there is mixed, I actually don't think that the "half" figure was all that exaggerated. Rather, it's a more complicated story: Many were given additional assignments on top of their "primary" tasks, others did indeed end up doing very down-the-importance-chain tasks, some probably diverted permanently. But some books out there suggest that the FBI did indeed make serious, significant changes in response to 9/11. Some of the books covering the CIA, for example, make mention of this. It's sort of hard to tell, but even if the number is inflated, the fact that the FBI basically put many other things on the back burner is documented. That "half" figure may indeed include temporary diversions as well as basic small-detail followup work, but I actually think it's pretty accurate, given the books I've read.

If only we could find someone who could comment definitively about this. Thing is, ex-FBI agents are not exactly coming out of the woodwork to talk about their past exploits even in books, let alone free forums such as ours.
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Old 13th August 2012, 12:31 PM   #8
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Originally Posted by cjnewson88 View Post
Thanks ElMondo. Was PENTTBOM released as a stand alone report or did it just make up part of the Commission Report?

Edit: Found a summary here.
It is absolutely impossible to believe that the FBI PENTBOM investigators did not uncover the following information;

That FBI HQ IOS Agent Dina Corsi had deliberately and criminal shut down FBI Agent Steve Bongardt's criminal investigation of Mihdhar and Hazmi, by telling Bongardt that he had to shut his investigation down because the a NSA cable in her EC was prohibited from being giving to FBI criminal investigators when the NSA had already approved the release of this information by Corsi to these exact same investigators.

It is impossible to believe that they did not discover that Corsi had again lied to Bongardt when she said that the attorney she had consulted at the FBI HQ NSLU told her that Bongardt could not take part in any investigation from Mihdhar and Hazmi, when the 9/11 Commission report based on DOJ IG transcripts says that the attorney, Sherry Sable, that Corsi had consulted with told her that since the information had no connection to any FISA warrant Bongardt could take part in any investigation for Mihdhar and Hazmi.

It is further impossible to believe that these PENTBOM investigators did not discover that Corsi had been aware since August 22, 2001, 6 days before she tells Bongardt to shut down his investigation of Mihdhar and Hazmi, that the CIA had the photo of Walid Bin Attash taken at Kuala Lumpur, and knew it connected both Mihdhar and Hazmi to the planning of the Cole bombing and even knew that this meant that she, Corsi, had no legal right to block Bongardt’s criminal investigation of Mihdhar and Hazmi. Corsi had even stated in email back to Bongardt on August 29, 2001 that if at such time that information is developed of a substantial Federal crime, (by Mihdhar and Hazmi), this information will be passed over the wall. This email proves that Corsi already knew that these two al Qaeda terrorists had committed the Federal crime of planning the bombing of the USS Cole, and knew she had no legal right to block Bongardt’s criminal investigation of Mihdhar and Hazmi.

It is further impossible to believe that that PENTBOM investigators did not discover that the photo of Walid Bin Attash had been sent to the Rod Middleton on August 30, 2001. Middleton was Corsi supervisor, and was on the phone with Corsi shutting down Bongardt’s criminal investigation of Mihdhar and Hazmi. He would also have been aware that because of this photo, he and Corsi had no legal right to block Bongardt’s criminal investigation of Mihdhar and Hazmi.

It is further impossible to believe that the PENTBOM investigators did not discover that Corsi had been operating under the direct supervision of former CIA Deputy Chief of the CIA Bin Laden unit, Tom Wilshire, and that he had instructed Corsi to write up the EC to start an “intelligence investigation” for Mihdhar and Hazmi when both Corsi and Wilshire were clearly ware that Mihdhar and Hazmi had taken part in a crime, the planning of the Cole bombing. Wilshire had also reviewed Corsi's EC just before it was sent over to the FBI New York office, and knew it stated a precedence of “ROUTIUNE” meaning that the investigation could take 30 days with no actual actions required to be taken. This EC was written when Wilshire and Corsi knew a huge al Qaeda terrorist attack was just about to take place inside of the US that would cause mass US casualties, and even knew that both Mihdhar and Hazmi were inside of the US in order to take part in this attack.

It is further impossible to believe that that PENTBOM investigators did not discover that Tom Wilshire had secretly asked his CTC CIA managers for permission twice in July 2001 to send the Kuala Lumpur information to the FBI, that Walid bin Attash had been at the Kuala Lumpur al Qaeda planning meeting with Mihdhar and Hazmi actually planning the Cole, bombing. Wilshire even knew that these al Qaeda terrorists were connected in the July time frame to the massive numbers of warnings of an al Qaeda terrorists attack that would take place inside of the US and had sent a email back to his CTC managers indicating this. At the time of these requests Wilshire even knew that Hazmi was already inside of the US and that Mihdhar had a US visa so he could later join Hazmi in this al Qaeda terrorist attack. Wilshire’s requests were turned down twice by his CIA CTC managers Blee, Black and by the person who would have given the order to prohibit the transfer of this information to the FBI, George Tenet himself. This information alone would show that Wilshire, while ostensibly was working as a high level FBI manager, was actually still secretly working for the CIA.

Since I have found all of this information from the official US government reports from the many investigations of the 9/11 attacks, it is impossible to believe that that PENTBOM investigators did not discover this very same information in just a few days of investigations. All they would have had to do is talk to FBI Agent Steve Bongardt, and then to his boss, FBI Agent Ali Soufan, the lead investigator on the USS Cole bombing, and then go start right up the line to Dina Corsi, Rod Middleton, Tom Wilshire, Richard Blee, Cofer Black and then to George Tenet himself.

They would even have found that their own Director of the FBI Louis Freeh had sabotaged his own FBI criminal investigation of the USS Cole bombing by stating to FBI Agent Ali Soufan, that the CIA had no information on Walid Bin Attash or any meeting in Kuala Lumpur when the CIA had actually given Freeh most of this very information in January 2000.

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Old 13th August 2012, 12:36 PM   #9
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That's one heck of an argument from incredulity.
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Old 13th August 2012, 12:48 PM   #10
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Originally Posted by BStrong View Post
That's one heck of an argument from incredulity.
Less than gripping too. My eyes glazed and I lost the will to live when I got about halfway through it. Why don't you take it to the Grand Jury, paloalto. None of us here can bring those whom you accuse to book. Why are you here instead of informing the right people?
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Old 13th August 2012, 12:58 PM   #11
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Originally Posted by BStrong View Post
That's one heck of an argument from incredulity.
This implies disbelief in this information. But anyone can go and look at the documents that I had used to find this exact information. Since all of this information is now documented in much detail in the public domain, no one should be surprised at this time by any of this information.

Start with the DOJ IG report, now available for free from the internet. This report was written by the Department of Justice Inspector General describing the actions taken by the FBI (and CIA) prior to the attacks on 9/11. Most of the material in this report was obtained from DOJ IG investigators, from transcripts of interviews with Dina Corsi, Rod Middleton, Tom Wilshire, and Steve Bongardt. While Ali Soufan was almost entirely left out of this report he does appear once as "the New York FBI agent", that went out to Pakistan to interview the CIA/FBI Joint source.

Some of this information came from the Looming Tower by Lawrence Wright since it seems Soufan was deliberate left out in large part from the DOJ IG report. Other information came from the 9/11 Commission report, the Joint Inquiry Report, and the defense exhibits from the Moussaoui trial. The Looming Tower was written from interviews Wright had with Soufan and Bongardt, this information was reviewed and approved by Steve Miller, information officer at FBI HQ.

These are all official US government documents. If you think anything has been posted in error, please point it out.
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Old 13th August 2012, 01:00 PM   #12
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It must suck that there are so many things you find impossible to believe, paloalto.
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Old 13th August 2012, 01:03 PM   #13
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Originally Posted by twinstead View Post
It must suck that there are so many things you find impossible to believe, paloalto.
Actually, no it doesn't!
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Old 13th August 2012, 01:31 PM   #14
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Any other reports of interest?
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Old 13th August 2012, 01:36 PM   #15
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Originally Posted by paloalto View Post
This implies disbelief in this information. But anyone can go and look at the documents that I had used to find this exact information. Since all of this information is now documented in much detail in the public domain, no one should be surprised at this time by any of this information.

Start with the DOJ IG report, now available for free from the internet. This report was written by the Department of Justice Inspector General describing the actions taken by the FBI (and CIA) prior to the attacks on 9/11. Most of the material in this report was obtained from DOJ IG investigators, from transcripts of interviews with Dina Corsi, Rod Middleton, Tom Wilshire, and Steve Bongardt. While Ali Soufan was almost entirely left out of this report he does appear once as "the New York FBI agent", that went out to Pakistan to interview the CIA/FBI Joint source.

Some of this information came from the Looming Tower by Lawrence Wright since it seems Soufan was deliberate left out in large part from the DOJ IG report. Other information came from the 9/11 Commission report, the Joint Inquiry Report, and the defense exhibits from the Moussaoui trial. The Looming Tower was written from interviews Wright had with Soufan and Bongardt, this information was reviewed and approved by Steve Miller, information officer at FBI HQ.

These are all official US government documents. If you think anything has been posted in error, please point it out.
And where your version falls flat is where you assume everyone was on the page you wish them to be, at the point in time when you wish them to be there.

Take your case to the IG and see where it goes.

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Old 13th August 2012, 01:45 PM   #16
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I got this from lyricsfreak. Does anyone like it ?

Songwriters: BYRNE, DAVID / WEYMOUTH, TINA / FRANTZ, CHRIS / HARRISON, JERRY
WELL WE KNOW WHERE WE'RE GOIN'
BUT WE DON'T KNOW WHERE WE'VE BEEN
AND WE KNOW WHAT WE'RE KNOWIN'
BUT WE CAN'T SAY WHAT WE'VE SEEN
AND WE'RE NOT LITTLE CHILDREN
AND WE KNOW WHAT WE WANT
AND THE FUTURE IS CERTAIN
GIVE US TIME TO WORK IT OUT

We're on a road to nowhere
Come on inside
Takin' that ride to nowhere
We'll take that ride

I'm feelin' okay this mornin'
And you know,
We're on the road to paradise
Here we go, here we go

CHORUS
[ Lyrics from: http://www.lyricsfreak.com/t/talking..._20135072.html ]
Maybe you wonder where you are
I don't care
Here is where time is on our side
Take you there...take you there

We're on a road to nowhere
We're on a road to nowhere
We're on a road to nowhere

There's a city in my mind
Come along and take that ride
And it's all right, baby, it's all right

And it's very far away
But it's growing day by day
And it's all right, baby, it's all right

They can tell you what to do
But they'll make a fool of you
And it's all right, baby, it's all right

We're on a road to nowhere
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Old 13th August 2012, 02:40 PM   #17
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Originally Posted by BStrong View Post
And where your version falls flat is where you assume everyone was on the page you wish them to be, at the point in time when you wish them to be there.

Take your case to the IG and see where it goes.
The version I have posted is what comes right out of the official US government reports. It seems like you would like to have this information go away since it rather inconveniently exposes the government malfeasance that had taken place which allowed these attacks on 9/11 to take place.

Sorry you think this information is rather inconvenient, but you can't wish these facts to go away no matter how inconvenient they are. As I stated earlier, if you can find any fault at all in the facts that I have posted from the documents that I have also listed, just please let us all know. That is how you can make these inconvenient facts go away, not with smoke and mirrors and snarky posts.

I don’t know where you got the information that you think you may have on 9/11, perhaps from the 9/11 Commission which was set up to prove that no one was guilty of anything. They even stated this as their goal even before they wrote their report, and said that almost 3000 people were murdered on 9/11 because there was lack of imagination. This is probably the first time in history that the murder of almost 3000 people was blamed on the lack of imagination, a rather creative excuse.

It is a little hard to reconcile that statement with the fact the CIA and FBI HQ knew about Mihdhar and Hazmi for 21 months prior to the attacks on 9/11 and yet somehow just could never bring themselves to give this extremely critical information to the FBI criminal investigators who could have stopped the attacks on 9/11, until September 12, 2001, after these attacks had already taken place.

But this brings up a very interesting point.

Why are people on this forum defending the few criminal in the US government that had allowed the attacks on 9/11 to take place?

What is your agenda?

WHY ARE YOU DOING THIS?

EXPLAIN YOUR ACTIONS TO DEFEND THE VERY PEOPLE WHO HAD ALLOWED THESES ATTACKS TO TAKE PLACE!

Last edited by paloalto; 13th August 2012 at 02:41 PM.
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Old 13th August 2012, 02:46 PM   #18
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Hey PA, hindsight is 20/20 always, and what reads one way long after the fact can be much different when it's in your hands.

Oh, BTW, they kick me down a paper bag full of green every week, and they got me a date with Tuesday Weld
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Old 13th August 2012, 03:11 PM   #19
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Originally Posted by BStrong View Post
Hey PA, hindsight is 20/20 always, and what reads one way long after the fact can be much different when it's in your hands.

Oh, BTW, they kick me down a paper bag full of green every week, and they got me a date with Tuesday Weld
Again a rather inconvenient truth.

The CIA and FBI HQ knew about Mihdhar and Hazmi for 21 months prior to the attacks on 9/11, and then even knew a huge al Qaeda attack was about to take place inside of the US and then found out when Mihdhar and Hazmi were discovered inside of the US that they were here in order to take part in this massive al Qaeda attack that would cause mass casualties. Then these two agencies shut down the FBI criminal investigation of FBI Agent Steve Bongardt of Mihdhar and Hazmi and even blocked the FBI criminal investigation by Harry Samit of Zacarias Moussaoui.

What has any of this got to do with hind sight?

If you know huge al Qaeda attack is just about to take place inside of the US and then know that two al Qaeda terrorists, Khalid al-Mihdhar and Nawaf al Hazmi, are inside of the US in order to take part in this huge al Qaeda attack, and then you deliberately shut down the one FBI criminal in investigation that could have found these terrorists before they carried out this attack, how is that hind sight?

It seems to me that you have stretched the definition of hind sight all out of proportion.

Even the FBI agents who wanted to search and find Mihdhar and Hazmi before they had time to carried out this huge attack told the FBI HQ agents who were shutting down their criminal investigation of Mihdhar and Hazmi, that these two al Qaeda terrorists were inside of the US in order to carry out a al Qaeda terrorist attack, and that people will die if their investigation was shut down.

Again, how is that hind sight?
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Old 13th August 2012, 11:12 PM   #20
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I gave up reading his screed after the very first BS sentence:

Quote:
That FBI HQ IOS Agent Dina Corsi had deliberately and criminal shut down FBI Agent Steve Bongardt's criminal investigation...
Words have meaning. Feel free to elaborate on exactly what "crime" you think was committed.
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Old 14th August 2012, 05:38 AM   #21
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Originally Posted by BStrong View Post
Hey PA, hindsight is 20/20 always, and what reads one way long after the fact can be much different when it's in your hands.

Oh, BTW, they kick me down a paper bag full of green every week, and they got me a date with Tuesday Weld
Apparently not in Trutherland.
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Old 14th August 2012, 10:24 AM   #22
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Originally Posted by paloalto View Post
The version I have posted is what comes right out of the official US government reports. ...!
You keep SPAMMING the same junk, right out of official US government reports, then you leap to delusional conclusions.

Some people can take the info you post and make Pulitzer Prize winning work, you take the info and jump into a big giant ocean of woo.
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Old 14th August 2012, 10:29 AM   #23
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Originally Posted by Robrob View Post
I gave up reading his screed after the very first BS sentence:


Words have meaning. Feel free to elaborate on exactly what "crime" you think was committed.
Well, there's perjury and...

Is bureaucratic squabbling a crime yet?
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Old 14th August 2012, 12:09 PM   #24
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Originally Posted by Robrob View Post
I gave up reading his screed after the very first BS sentence:


Words have meaning. Feel free to elaborate on exactly what "crime" you think was committed.
According to page 301 of the Department of Justice Inspector General report, FBI IOS Agent Dina Corsi knew on August 22, 2001 that the CIA had the photograph of Walid bin Attash, mastermind of the USS Cole bombing, taken at the January 5-8, 2000 al Qaeda planning meeting. She already knew that Nawaf al-Hazmi and Khalid al-Mihdhar had been at that same al Qaeda planning meeting and at this point that all three had been involved in planning the bombing of the USS Cole at that meeting. Planning the bombing of the USS Cole was Federal crime. So she knew that there was no reason that this information should not immediately go to the FBI Cole bombing criminal investigators, FBI Agent Steve Bongardt and his team. She never gave this information to Bongardt or anyone else on his team This is a crime of withhold material information from an ongoing FBI criminal investigation of the Cole bombing. This is also proof of delaying, obstructing, and impeding a FBI official Federal criminal investigation, more crimes.

On August 22, 2001 she finds out that Khalid al-Mihdhar and Nawaf al-Hazmi are inside of the US and does not give this information to Bongardt or anyone on his team. This is yet, another crime, delaying and impeding a Federal FBI criminal investigation.

On Augusts 28, 2001 Bongardt found out that both Mihdhar and Hazmi are inside of the US when Corsi’s EC is accidentally routed to him. He calls Corsi and asks her to allow him to start an immediate investigation for these two al Qaeda terrorists before they have time to carry out a al Qaeda terrorist attack inside of the US.

Corsi tells Bongardt that since her EC to start an “intelligence investigation” for Mihdhar and Hazmi had a NSA cable in it, he was not allowed to even look at her EC, and tells Bongardt to destroy her EC. But Corsi's request to send this very NSA information to the FBI Cole bombing investigators in New York, Steve Bongardt and his team, had already been approved on August 27, 2001, by the NSA, so again she not only withheld this material information from him, but she also knew that she had no legal right to block his criminal investigation of Mihdhar and Hazmi. This is yet another crime withholding material information from an ongoing FBI criminal investigation.

After she tells him that he can have no role in any investigation for Mihdhar and Hazmi, Bongardt tells Corsi that he can see no connection to any FISA warrant, the only reason that the NSA would require written permission before their information was given to him and his team. He asked Corsi to get a legal ruling from the FBI NSLU attorneys to see if he can start a criminal investigation for Mihdhar and Hazmi. She tells him on August 29, 2001, that the FBI attorneys she had contacted had told her that he can have no role in any FBI investigation of Mihdhar and Hazmi.

But page 538, footnote 81 of the 9/11 Commission report says, based on testimony given to DOJ IG investigators by Attorney Sherry Sabol on November 7, 2002 on the advice she gave to FBI Agent Dina Corsi, that she, (Sabol), gave Corsi on August 28, 2001, that since the NSA information had no connection to any FISA warrant, FBI Agent Steve Bongardt and his team can take part in or start any investigation for Mihdhar and Hazmi. This is yet another crime, lying to FBI criminal investigators.

On August 29, 2001 Corsi sent Bongardt an email that states “if at such time as information is developed of a substantial Federal crime, (by Mihdhar and Hazmi) this information will be passed over the wall”. So she was well aware that she was committing numerous Federal crimes in shutting down Bongardt's criminal investigation of Mihdhar and Hazmi, since she already had abundant evidence of numerous substantial Federal crimes by both Mihdhar and Hazmi.

On August 30, 2001 the CIA sends the photo of Walid bin Attash taken at Kuala Lumpur, to Rod Middleton, Dina Corsi’s supervisor, so he now has photographic proof that Mihdhar and Hazmi had taken part in the Cole bombing. Yet he never calls Bongardt back to allow him to start a criminal investigation for Mihdhar and Hazmi. Middleton had been on the phone with Corsi shutting down his FBI criminal investigation of Mihdhar and Hazmi so he is also well aware that he had no legal right to do this, yet further evidence of additional Federal crimes.

Bongardt had an extremely good chance to prevent the attacks on 9/11 had his investigation been allowed to start and proceed almost three weeks prior to the attacks on 9/11. What is most disturbing is that both the FBI HQ and the CIA knew about this huge al Qaeda terrorist attack about to take place inside of the US, and knew it would cause mass casualties, and even knew that Midhar and Hazmi were inside of the US in order to take part in this attack, yet both agencies allowed Corsi and Middleton, who were operating under the supervision of former CIA officer Tom Wilshire, to criminally shut down FBI Agent Steve Bongardt’s criminal investigation of Mihdhar and Hazmi.

Last edited by paloalto; 14th August 2012 at 12:24 PM.
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Old 14th August 2012, 12:26 PM   #25
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Are there going to be any links to this stuff or is it all just going off of what you say? I am not going to dig through multiple reports to find specific quotes.
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Old 14th August 2012, 02:46 PM   #26
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Originally Posted by paloalto View Post
...

But page 538, footnote 81 of the 9/11 Commission report says, based on testimony given to DOJ IG investigators by Attorney Sherry Sabol on November 7, 2002 on the advice she gave to FBI Agent Dina Corsi, that she, (Sabol), gave Corsi on August 28, 2001, that since the NSA information had no connection to any FISA warrant, FBI Agent Steve Bongardt and his team can take part in or start any investigation for Mihdhar and Hazmi. This is yet another crime, lying to FBI criminal investigators. ...

http://www.internationalskeptics.com...1&postcount=24

http://www.internationalskeptics.com...&postcount=177

http://www.internationalskeptics.com...&postcount=362

http://www.internationalskeptics.com...&postcount=313


You keep repeating this stuff, never made CNN, ABC, NBC, 60 Minutes, 20/20, CBS, FOX, etc.

Is it the fantasy conclusions that get your work rejected?
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Old 14th August 2012, 02:53 PM   #27
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Originally Posted by LSSBB View Post
Well, there's perjury and...

Is bureaucratic squabbling a crime yet?
To wit:

Originally Posted by paloalto View Post
According to page 301 of the Department of Justice Inspector General report, FBI IOS Agent Dina Corsi knew on August 22, 2001 that the CIA had the photograph of Walid bin Attash, mastermind of the USS Cole bombing, taken at the January 5-8, 2000 al Qaeda planning meeting. She already knew that Nawaf al-Hazmi and Khalid al-Mihdhar had been at that same al Qaeda planning meeting and at this point that all three had been involved in planning the bombing of the USS Cole at that meeting. Planning the bombing of the USS Cole was Federal crime. So she knew that there was no reason that this information should not immediately go to the FBI Cole bombing criminal investigators, FBI Agent Steve Bongardt and his team. She never gave this information to Bongardt or anyone else on his team This is a crime of withhold material information from an ongoing FBI criminal investigation of the Cole bombing. This is also proof of delaying, obstructing, and impeding a FBI official Federal criminal investigation, more crimes.

On August 22, 2001 she finds out that Khalid al-Mihdhar and Nawaf al-Hazmi are inside of the US and does not give this information to Bongardt or anyone on his team. This is yet, another crime, delaying and impeding a Federal FBI criminal investigation.

On Augusts 28, 2001 Bongardt found out that both Mihdhar and Hazmi are inside of the US when Corsi’s EC is accidentally routed to him. He calls Corsi and asks her to allow him to start an immediate investigation for these two al Qaeda terrorists before they have time to carry out a al Qaeda terrorist attack inside of the US.

Corsi tells Bongardt that since her EC to start an “intelligence investigation” for Mihdhar and Hazmi had a NSA cable in it, he was not allowed to even look at her EC, and tells Bongardt to destroy her EC. But Corsi's request to send this very NSA information to the FBI Cole bombing investigators in New York, Steve Bongardt and his team, had already been approved on August 27, 2001, by the NSA, so again she not only withheld this material information from him, but she also knew that she had no legal right to block his criminal investigation of Mihdhar and Hazmi. This is yet another crime withholding material information from an ongoing FBI criminal investigation.

After she tells him that he can have no role in any investigation for Mihdhar and Hazmi, Bongardt tells Corsi that he can see no connection to any FISA warrant, the only reason that the NSA would require written permission before their information was given to him and his team. He asked Corsi to get a legal ruling from the FBI NSLU attorneys to see if he can start a criminal investigation for Mihdhar and Hazmi. She tells him on August 29, 2001, that the FBI attorneys she had contacted had told her that he can have no role in any FBI investigation of Mihdhar and Hazmi.

But page 538, footnote 81 of the 9/11 Commission report says, based on testimony given to DOJ IG investigators by Attorney Sherry Sabol on November 7, 2002 on the advice she gave to FBI Agent Dina Corsi, that she, (Sabol), gave Corsi on August 28, 2001, that since the NSA information had no connection to any FISA warrant, FBI Agent Steve Bongardt and his team can take part in or start any investigation for Mihdhar and Hazmi. This is yet another crime, lying to FBI criminal investigators.

On August 29, 2001 Corsi sent Bongardt an email that states “if at such time as information is developed of a substantial Federal crime, (by Mihdhar and Hazmi) this information will be passed over the wall”. So she was well aware that she was committing numerous Federal crimes in shutting down Bongardt's criminal investigation of Mihdhar and Hazmi, since she already had abundant evidence of numerous substantial Federal crimes by both Mihdhar and Hazmi.

On August 30, 2001 the CIA sends the photo of Walid bin Attash taken at Kuala Lumpur, to Rod Middleton, Dina Corsi’s supervisor, so he now has photographic proof that Mihdhar and Hazmi had taken part in the Cole bombing. Yet he never calls Bongardt back to allow him to start a criminal investigation for Mihdhar and Hazmi. Middleton had been on the phone with Corsi shutting down his FBI criminal investigation of Mihdhar and Hazmi so he is also well aware that he had no legal right to do this, yet further evidence of additional Federal crimes.

Bongardt had an extremely good chance to prevent the attacks on 9/11 had his investigation been allowed to start and proceed almost three weeks prior to the attacks on 9/11. What is most disturbing is that both the FBI HQ and the CIA knew about this huge al Qaeda terrorist attack about to take place inside of the US, and knew it would cause mass casualties, and even knew that Midhar and Hazmi were inside of the US in order to take part in this attack, yet both agencies allowed Corsi and Middleton, who were operating under the supervision of former CIA officer Tom Wilshire, to criminally shut down FBI Agent Steve Bongardt’s criminal investigation of Mihdhar and Hazmi.
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Old 14th August 2012, 02:59 PM   #28
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Originally Posted by plague311 View Post
Are there going to be any links to this stuff or is it all just going off of what you say? I am not going to dig through multiple reports to find specific quotes.
The DOJ IG report is also known as the IG Review of the FBI’s Handling of the Intelligence Information Related to the September 11 Attacks, November 2004) Un-redacted version released in May 2006 also referred to as the DOJ IG report. I un-redacted this entire report in late 2004.

Here is the link for this document at http://www.justice.gov/oig/special/s0606/index.htm

Alias names used in the DOJ IG report:

Scott is aka Steve Bongardt, Donna is aka Dina Corsi, and Rob is aka Rod Middleton, Susan is aka, Attorney Sherry Sabol, Chad is aka Craig Donnache, Jason is aka John Liguori


According to page 301 of the Department of Justice Inspector General report, FBI IOS Agent Dina Corsi knew on August 22, 2001 that the CIA had the photograph of Walid bin Attash, mastermind of the USS Cole bombing, taken at the January 5-8, 2000 al Qaeda planning meeting. She already knew that Nawaf al-Hazmi and Khalid al-Mihdhar had been at that same al Qaeda planning meeting and at this point that all three had been involved in planning the bombing of the USS Cole at that meeting. Planning the bombing of the USS Cole was a major Federal crime. So she knew that there was no reason that this information should not immediately go to the FBI Cole bombing criminal investigators, FBI Agent Steve Bongardt and his team. She never gave this information to Bongardt or anyone else on his team This is a crime of withhold material information from an ongoing FBI criminal investigation of the Cole bombing. This is also proof of delaying, obstructing, and impeding a FBI official Federal criminal investigation, more crimes.

DOJ IG report Page 301/302

On August 22, 2001 she finds out that Khalid al-Mihdhar and Nawaf al-Hazmi are inside of the US and does not give this information to Bongardt or anyone on his team. This is yet, another crime, delaying and impeding a Federal FBI criminal investigation.

Page 301 DOJ IG report

On Augusts 28, 2001 Bongardt found out that both Mihdhar and Hazmi are inside of the US when Corsi’s EC is accidentally routed to him. He calls Corsi and asks her to allow him to start an immediate investigation for these two al Qaeda terrorists before they have time to carry out a al Qaeda terrorist attack inside of the US.

DOJ IG report 304/305/306

Corsi tells Bongardt that since her EC to start an “intelligence investigation” for Mihdhar and Hazmi had a NSA cable in it, he was not allowed to even look at her EC, and tells Bongardt to destroy her EC. But Corsi's request to send this very NSA information to the FBI Cole bombing investigators in New York, Steve Bongardt and his team, had already been approved on August 27, 2001, by the NSA, so again she not only withheld this material information from him, but she also knew that she had no legal right to block his criminal investigation of Mihdhar and Hazmi. This is yet another crime withholding material information from an ongoing FBI criminal investigation.

DOJ IG report page 306, the NSA release to Corsi is DE #448

After she tells him that he can have no role in any investigation for Mihdhar and Hazmi, Bongardt tells Corsi that he can see no connection to any FISA warrant, the only reason that the NSA would require written permission before their information was given to him and his team. He asked Corsi to get a legal ruling from the FBI NSLU attorneys to see if he can start a criminal investigation for Mihdhar and Hazmi. She tells him on August 29, 2001, that the FBI attorneys she had contacted had told her that he can have no role in any FBI investigation of Mihdhar and Hazmi.

DOJ IG report page 306-307, 9/11 Commission report page 538

But page 538, footnote 81 of the 9/11 Commission report says, based on testimony given to DOJ IG investigators by Attorney Sherry Sabol on November 7, 2002 on the advice she gave to FBI Agent Dina Corsi, that she, (Sabol), gave Corsi on August 28, 2001, that since the NSA information had no connection to any FISA warrant, FBI Agent Steve Bongardt and his team can take part in or start any investigation for Mihdhar and Hazmi. This is yet another crime, lying to FBI criminal investigators.

DOJ IG report Page 308

On August 29, 2001 Corsi sent Bongardt an email that states “if at such time as information is developed of a substantial Federal crime, (by Mihdhar and Hazmi) this information will be passed over the wall”. So she was well aware that she was committing numerous Federal crimes in shutting down Bongardt's criminal investigation of Mihdhar and Hazmi, since she already had abundant evidence of numerous substantial Federal crimes by both Mihdhar and Hazmi.

DE #682, defense exhibit entered into the Moussaoui trial, these are located at: http://www.vaed.uscourts.gov/notable...s/defense.html

On August 30, 2001 the CIA sends the photo of Walid bin Attash taken at Kuala Lumpur, to Rod Middleton, Dina Corsi’s supervisor, so he now has photographic proof that Mihdhar and Hazmi had taken part in the Cole bombing. Yet he never calls Bongardt back to allow him to start a criminal investigation for Mihdhar and Hazmi. Middleton had been on the phone with Corsi shutting down his FBI criminal investigation of Mihdhar and Hazmi so he is also well aware that he had no legal right to do this, yet further evidence of additional Federal crimes.

DOJ IG report page 310

Bongardt had an extremely good chance to prevent the attacks on 9/11 had his investigation been allowed to start and proceed almost three weeks prior to the attacks on 9/11. What is most disturbing is that both the FBI HQ and the CIA knew this huge al Qaeda terrorist attack about just to take place inside of the US, knew it would cause mass casualties, and even knew that Midhar and Hazmi were inside of the US in order to take part in this attack, yet both agencies allowed Corsi and Middleton, who were operating under the supervision of former CIA officer Tom Wilshire, to criminally shut down FBI Agent Steve Bongardt’s criminal investigation of Mihdhar and Hazmi.

DE #939 Defense Exhibit entered into the Moussaoui trial on March 11, 2006, DOJ IG report pages 301/302

Last edited by paloalto; 14th August 2012 at 04:33 PM.
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Old 14th August 2012, 04:13 PM   #29
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Originally Posted by paloalto
Originally Posted by Robrob View Post
I gave up reading his screed after the very first BS sentence:


Words have meaning. Feel free to elaborate on exactly what "crime" you think was committed.
According to page 301 of the Department of Justice Inspector General report, FBI IOS Agent Dina Corsi knew on August 22, 2001 that the CIA had the photograph of Walid bin Attash, mastermind of the USS Cole bombing, taken at the January 5-8, 2000 al Qaeda planning meeting...
(Snip long rambling C&P)
And the CRIME would be...?
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Old 14th August 2012, 04:36 PM   #30
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Originally Posted by Robrob View Post
And the CRIME would be...?
According to page 301 of the Department of Justice Inspector General report, FBI IOS Agent Dina Corsi knew on August 22, 2001 that the CIA had the photograph of Walid bin Attash, mastermind of the USS Cole bombing, taken at the January 5-8, 2000 al Qaeda planning meeting.

She already knew that Nawaf al-Hazmi and Khalid al-Mihdhar had been at that same al Qaeda planning meeting and at this point that all three had been involved in planning the bombing of the USS Cole at that meeting. Planning the bombing of the USS Cole was a major Federal crime.

So she knew that there was no reason that this information should not immediately go to the FBI Cole bombing criminal investigators, FBI Agent Steve Bongardt and his team. She never gave this information to Bongardt or anyone else on his team.

This is a crime of withhold material information from an ongoing FBI criminal investigation of the Cole bombing. This is also proof of delaying, obstructing, and impeding a FBI official Federal criminal investigation, more crimes.
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Old 14th August 2012, 05:34 PM   #31
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And this has to do what with the subject of this thread?
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Old 14th August 2012, 08:19 PM   #32
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Originally Posted by paloalto View Post
According to page 301 of the Department of Justice Inspector General report, FBI IOS Agent Dina Corsi knew on August 22, 2001 that the CIA had the photograph of Walid bin Attash, mastermind of the USS Cole bombing, taken at the January 5-8, 2000 al Qaeda planning meeting.

She already knew that Nawaf al-Hazmi and Khalid al-Mihdhar had been at that same al Qaeda planning meeting and at this point that all three had been involved in planning the bombing of the USS Cole at that meeting. Planning the bombing of the USS Cole was a major Federal crime.

So she knew that there was no reason that this information should not immediately go to the FBI Cole bombing criminal investigators, FBI Agent Steve Bongardt and his team. She never gave this information to Bongardt or anyone else on his team.

This is a crime of withhold material information from an ongoing FBI criminal investigation of the Cole bombing. This is also proof of delaying, obstructing, and impeding a FBI official Federal criminal investigation, more crimes.
Just like listening to a scratched record, only twice as annoying.
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Old 14th August 2012, 08:26 PM   #33
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Originally Posted by fess View Post
Just like listening to a scratched record, only twice as annoying.
click......click......click......click......click. .....click......click......click......click......c lick......click......click......click......click.. ....click......click......click......click......cl ick......click......click......click......click... ...click......click......

Do I give my age away?

The first 'Gramophone' I had access to had an acoustic trumpet mechanically coupled to the needle and a wind up handle for the clockwork mechanism.

..Oh - almost forgot...and a picture of a little doggie looking at a similar machine.
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Old 14th August 2012, 08:48 PM   #34
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Originally Posted by fess View Post
Just like listening to a scratched record, only twice as annoying.
It is really annoying to discover that people in your own government allowed the attacks on 9/11 to take place because they illegally shut down FBI criminal investigations that could have prevented these attacks.

Why don’t you tell how annoyed you are to the families of the almost 3000 people killed on 9/11, maybe they can give you some sympathy for being so annoyed.
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Old 14th August 2012, 09:13 PM   #35
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Originally Posted by paloalto View Post
It is really annoying to discover that people in your own government allowed the attacks on 9/11 to take place because they illegally shut down FBI criminal investigations that could have prevented these attacks.

Why don’t you tell how annoyed you are to the families of the almost 3000 people killed on 9/11, maybe they can give you some sympathy for being so annoyed.
With your logic, why do we have car accidents? How much does the paloalto special algorithm cost?
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Old 14th August 2012, 10:16 PM   #36
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Originally Posted by paloalto
Originally Posted by Robrob View Post
And the CRIME would be...?
This is a crime of withhold material information from an ongoing FBI criminal investigation of the Cole bombing. This is also proof of delaying, obstructing, and impeding a FBI official Federal criminal investigation, more crimes.
Funny thing is, you have provided zero evidence of a crime. What you have done is describe, over and over again an FBI supervisor doing their job of supervising. You have yet to provide any evidence the decisions were wrong in the first place. That in hindsight we wish they had made different decisions is immaterial. That you imagine - using the power of hindsight - they should have done things differently is immaterial. Every traffic accident is the result of a mistake. Every traffic accident could have been prevented. Not every traffic accident is the result of a conspiracy or a crime.

Originally Posted by paloalto View Post
It is really annoying to discover that people in your own government allowed the attacks on 9/11 to take place
Lie.

Quote:
because they illegally shut down FBI criminal investigations that could have prevented these attacks.
Lie.
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Old 14th August 2012, 10:25 PM   #37
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Why is it, that the US DOJ has yet to file any charges in this "case"?

I mean, how long does the paperwork REALLY take.....
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Old 15th August 2012, 12:48 AM   #38
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Originally Posted by paloalto View Post
A...This is a crime of withhold material information from an ongoing FBI criminal investigation of the Cole bombing. This is also proof of delaying, obstructing, and impeding a FBI official Federal criminal investigation, more crimes.
Time to get serious paloalto so let's see you:
1) Name the alleged crime - the correct legal name for the crime - not your truther vague verbiage;
2) Cite the statute under which the alleged crime is an offence;
3) Quote the relevant portion of that statute;
4) Identify the jurisdiction in which the crime can be tried;
5) Identify the elements of proof needed by that statute to establish that the crime has been committed;
6) Outline the evidence you would adduce as proof of each element.

Remembering that each element has to be proven to 'beyond reasonable doubt' and absence of any element means the charge cannot be sustained.

You have chosen to put your 'argument' in legal format. So be prepared to support it in legal format and the appropriate due process.

The questions I have asked are the minimum needed to establish a 'prima facie' case. i.e. that there is a case to be answered - the first step of getting through the door of the court.

AND it gets harder from there.

Truther Nonsense Trickery would not even get into court let alone survive for any time before one of the procedural challenges had you thrown out.
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Old 15th August 2012, 07:56 AM   #39
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Originally Posted by ozeco41 View Post
Time to get serious paloalto so let's see you:
1) Name the alleged crime - the correct legal name for the crime - not your truther vague verbiage;
2) Cite the statute under which the alleged crime is an offence;
3) Quote the relevant portion of that statute;
4) Identify the jurisdiction in which the crime can be tried;
5) Identify the elements of proof needed by that statute to establish that the crime has been committed;
6) Outline the evidence you would adduce as proof of each element.

Remembering that each element has to be proven to 'beyond reasonable doubt' and absence of any element means the charge cannot be sustained.

You have chosen to put your 'argument' in legal format. So be prepared to support it in legal format and the appropriate due process.

The questions I have asked are the minimum needed to establish a 'prima facie' case. i.e. that there is a case to be answered - the first step of getting through the door of the court.

AND it gets harder from there.

Truther Nonsense Trickery would not even get into court let alone survive for any time before one of the procedural challenges had you thrown out.
Good outline Oz, bookmarked.
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Old 15th August 2012, 08:06 AM   #40
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Originally Posted by paloalto View Post
It is really annoying to discover that people in your own government allowed the attacks on 9/11 to take place because they illegally shut down FBI criminal investigations that could have prevented these attacks.
No, what annoys me is that there are people like you still dragging this MUCK around the internet claiming that thousands upon thousands of people were involved in covering up the most horrendous crime that ever happened in this country. Yet not one person of any consequence has come forward to substantiate this claim. If you were a person of honor, why haven’t you brought your information to the proper officials so that justice can be done?

Originally Posted by paloalto View Post
Why don’t you tell how annoyed you are to the families of the almost 3000 people killed on 9/11, maybe they can give you some sympathy for being so annoyed.
Why haven’t you brought this information to the attention of those families? I’m sure they would be interested, especially the families of 346 of my brothers and sisters who perished on that day. I’m sure they will sympathize with you.
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International Skeptics Forum » General Topics » Conspiracies and Conspiracy Theories » 9/11 Conspiracy Theories

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