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Old 8th March 2015, 08:46 PM   #161
Ziggi
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Originally Posted by chrismohr View Post
I am reading Ziggi's taunts and insults but have no response at this time. His assumptions about Millette are a good example of how people on both sides of this debate can go ad hominem and assume the worst of people without knowing what they are talking about. This is why I also gave up on MM.
For crying out loud Chris, I was not attacking Millette, I was saying that he is not ignorant like your buddies, and that he has to abide different standards as a scientist than you forum trolls:

Quote:
Do you really think Dr. Millette was as ignorant as those who rant on this forum, and was unaware of the Harrit et al FTIR data, when it was mentioned in the paper and Ryan was talking about it in lectures? Hmm? Why do you think Ryan´s FTIR does not match Millette´s? Not the same chips, eh? Why do you think Millette decided to not publish the first part of his study, the supposedly definitive FTIR data according to Sunstealer and his ilk? Maybe because he realized "the much different result"? Hmm?

It is one thing to rant on the forum and another to publish scientific papers formally under your real name, and at some point you will have to realize that.
"Do you really think" followed by a "question mark" is not an assertion about Millette being ignorant, Chris. He did not publish because he became aware of Ryan´s data and because he has to abide to whole another level of standards than those who rant on this forum.
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Old 8th March 2015, 09:05 PM   #162
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Originally Posted by Ziggi View Post
WOW, are you people trying to make this into a big story? Big scandal eh? Get a life. Griscom donated the $1000 to Rick and left it up to him to allocate the money. Rick was going to put it into Mark´s study but then decided to use it to help run his ANETA organization.

BTW, where is the thread about updates on Millette´s study? Oh sorry, that was cancelled. Seems like he does not want to have anything to do with you lot these days, just like JREF.
Where is Jones

02/12/2012 - Jones says goodbye to 911 truth... Guess thermite, the big inside job; the Biggest Story since Watergate with implications to take down not only the president (like NIXON with Watergate) but a thousands of others who planted the thermite, and covered up the most complex plot in history.

Jones turns his back on what would be a Pulitzer, and leaves... (of course 911 truth and Jones can't produce evidence, so they faked a conclusion in a paper which they were forced to publish in a vanity journal - thus no newspaper can team with 911 truth to earn a Pulitzer Prize)

Quote:
My best wishes to the 9/11 truth community. FYI, my main research focus at this time remains on seeking alternative energy sources for the benefit of mankind. ( From a Paranoid web site based on BS, woo, and ignorance)

Since you and 911 truth know 911 was an inside job, why can't you get a newspaper to fund the research; they could earn a Pulitzer publishing the results, and the full story of the plot... wait, you have no plot, no evidence, no thermite, no CD. It took a year, or was it less to break Watergate wide open, why can't 911 truth do anything?

Quote:
understand some of you are frustrated at the apparent lack of progress, but please patient I am trying to be methodical and careful with the work and not waste any of the much appreciated donations.
Methodical, and careful - lol, with no iron fused to any steel, how do you guys keep the fantasy going?

Who did 911 in your theory of CD and inside job? When will Mark's study be done?

Originally Posted by Ziggi View Post
... Millette being ignorant, Chris. He did not publish because he became aware of Ryan´s data and because he has to abide to whole another level of standards than those who rant on this forum.
Wow, lies and fantasy. You like CD, a lie and a fantasy; you make up BS about Millette - a pattern.

Darn; Millette's study is published, I have it. Darn, why do you lie about 911?
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/...12webHiRes.pdf

Originally Posted by Ziggi View Post
F... he is not ignorant like your buddies[/url], and that he has to abide different standards as a scientist than you forum trolls. ...
The sign you ran out of script for BS bashing of NIST, and can't support thermite with evidence.

Last edited by beachnut; 8th March 2015 at 09:57 PM.
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Old 9th March 2015, 12:49 AM   #163
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Originally Posted by chrismohr View Post
Oystein, I may be mistaken in my memory. Pgimeno showed us what Ivan was able to pull off a screen shot, which may be all there is. There have been comments by Jones, Ryan and Harrit, but perhaps that's all I've actually seen.
We'll see if Ziggi can help us locate more data

Originally Posted by chrismohr View Post
Sunstealer, if you're still around, can you tell me what the TEM data might show us if it were released by the Harrit/Jones/Ryan/Farrer team? Alternatively, Oystein perhaps you can help... ideally something quoting someone like Sunstealer or at least your understanding of what light TEM data can shed on this.
Got no quotes, only my limited understanding.
So far we have seen SEM data from Farrer and Jones - Scanning Electron Microscopy. The specimens for this technique can be thick and bulky - the microscopy "scans" electrons (or, with different dectors, X-rays) that are returned from near the surface of the specimen. Several pathways and methods apply. Electrons hit the surface of the sample, penetrate to some depth even (micrometer scale), get scattered, often excite atoms and cause them to emit secondary electrons, and may leave the probe again at some other angle. That behaviour depends on the density of the material and the atom species the electron encounter. Because the original electron and its secondary electrons and xrays "bounce around" and explore a certain depth, it is difficult to focus on individual pigments; in our chips, you always pick up information from material surrounding the spot of interest.

A TEM (Transmission Electron Microscopes) essentially looks at electrons that have passed through a specimen, which gives us a requirement for sample preparation: Specimens mut be very thin (well under 1 µm). TEM allows for a higher theoretically possible resolution (SEM is limited at best to perhaps nm, TEM goes well under 1 nm) and better focus, but sample preparation may be a more difficult art. The upshot is that an electron focused on a spot of interest passes only through that spot and doesn't pick up information from surrounding material. This allows for better focus.

TEM, like SEM, can be equipped with X-ray detectors to allow for XEDS data (elemental identification), and that is, given competent sample preparation, higher quality then SEM-XEDS. It is better possible to get XEDS data on really just a single pigment, with less or no matrix or neighboring pigments interfering.

TEM (but not SEM) can additionally be equipped for "Selected area electron diffraction" (SAED), a method where electron waves passing through gaps between atoms form diffraction patterns if the atoms are regularly spaced in a crystal lattice. The diffraction patterns are characteristic for different crystals and thus constitute a method to identify the crystal species. Millette employed this method and identified the hexagonal, Al-Si-rich platelets as crystals of kaolin.

Now, what to expect from Farrer's TEM data? It would depend on his objectives and hence on his sample selection, sample preparation, and the equipment he used in addition to mere electron detection. We know that he has identified trace elements (Sr and Cr as well as Pb), so he apparently used TEM-XEDS. I would expect that he has high-resolution images of the sample areas from which he got the Sr and Cr signals, so we can see if they originate from a pigment, or from an area within the matrix, and whether or not the two elements go together, or are distributed independetly from one another. This would either strengthen or dispel out theory that there are pigments of strontium chromate: TEM can be expected to show those pigments individually (they tend to be larger than the iron oxide pigments, and are typically needle-shaped (acicular), meaning they are several times (for example 10x) longer than thick) and yield XEDS spectra showing mostly O, Cr and Sr peaks.

I have seen nothing that suggests that Farrer used SAED with the TEM. If he did (but, I must stress, I don't think he did), he should no doubt have identified kaolin and hematite as well, and could have been in a position to pinpoint other pigments and fillers as well (strontium chromate in LaClede chips; quarz, zinc chromate, calcium silicates and aluminates, talc in Tnemec; possibly lead chromate in other paints; etc.)
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Old 9th March 2015, 01:02 AM   #164
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Originally Posted by Ziggi View Post
For crying out loud Chris, I was not attacking Millette, I was saying that he is not ignorant like your buddies, and that he has to abide different standards as a scientist than you forum trolls:



"Do you really think" followed by a "question mark" is not an assertion about Millette being ignorant, Chris. He did not publish because he became aware of Ryan´s data and because he has to abide to whole another level of standards than those who rant on this forum.
Here we go again, Ziggi master of all is showing off his mind reading skills again.

Ah bless, he is so special.
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Old 9th March 2015, 09:19 AM   #165
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Old 31st March 2015, 10:51 AM   #166
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Any updates ?
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Old 1st April 2015, 11:25 AM   #167
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Originally Posted by Spanx View Post
Any updates ?
There will never be any testing performed and therefore no meaningful update will ever occur.

Mark Basile could have this sorted in under 3 weeks if he wanted to. It's very easy to do:

1. Isolate a red/gray chip that is identical in characteristic to chips a)-d) in Harrit et al. Publish the data on the website so everyone can see that this chip matches.

2. Write an email to 20 or 30 materials analysis labs asking for a quote regarding the characterisation of the red layer using FTIR analysis. Provide photos and description of chip.

3. Choose a lab, pay the money, send the chip off and wait.

4. Post independent materials analysis report on website.

It won't cost $5000 that's for sure. There's a very good reason why they have done nothing in some 4 years even after raising the money.

Last edited by Sunstealer; 1st April 2015 at 11:27 AM.
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Old 1st April 2015, 07:01 PM   #168
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Originally Posted by Sunstealer View Post
There will never be any testing performed and therefore no meaningful update will ever occur.

Mark Basile could have this sorted in under 3 weeks if he wanted to. It's very easy to do:

1. Isolate a red/gray chip that is identical in characteristic to chips a)-d) in Harrit et al. Publish the data on the website so everyone can see that this chip matches.

2. Write an email to 20 or 30 materials analysis labs asking for a quote regarding the characterisation of the red layer using FTIR analysis. Provide photos and description of chip.

3. Choose a lab, pay the money, send the chip off and wait.

4. Post independent materials analysis report on website.

It won't cost $5000 that's for sure. There's a very good reason why they have done nothing in some 4 years even after raising the money.
AMEN !! Everyone who donated to this spent their money on nothing. But I encourage every truther to give even more. Hard and bitter experience is the only way that some people learn, and some don't even learn from that. I'd like to see all the Truthers empty their bank accounts, sell off their worldly goods, and give all the proceeds to Richard Gage.
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Old 2nd April 2015, 01:06 PM   #169
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Originally Posted by Ziggi View Post
For crying out loud Chris, I was not attacking Millette, I was saying that he is not ignorant like your buddies, and that he has to abide different standards as a scientist than you forum trolls:



"Do you really think" followed by a "question mark" is not an assertion about Millette being ignorant, Chris. He did not publish because he became aware of Ryan´s data and because he has to abide to whole another level of standards than those who rant on this forum.
More likely it is not worth the time and effort of a competent researcher to point out stupidity.

What good would low burn rate Areojel nanothermites be anyway worthless unless your duck
Hunting or launching fire works.
What morons would choose the for building demo?
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Old 2nd April 2015, 01:17 PM   #170
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Originally Posted by Crazy Chainsaw View Post
What good would low burn rate Areojel nanothermites be anyway worthless unless your duck
Hunting or launching fire works.
What morons would choose the for building demo?
You forgot that nanothermite can be customized to any property you wish for: It can silently explode, burn invisibly, inundate all of NYC with one of its products while completely hiding the other. It survives fires but ignites at a specially low temp. It can give you a bad cough and then heal it. It can improve your stamina and quench that of your rival. And you can make it fetch a stick.
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Old 2nd April 2015, 01:27 PM   #171
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Originally Posted by Oystein View Post
You forgot that nanothermite can be customized to any property you wish for: It can silently explode, burn invisibly, inundate all of NYC with one of its products while completely hiding the other. It survives fires but ignites at a specially low temp. It can give you a bad cough and then heal it. It can improve your stamina and quench that of your rival. And you can make it fetch a stick.
It slices!!! It dices!!!

Just look at that tomato!!
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Old 2nd April 2015, 01:46 PM   #172
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Originally Posted by Oystein View Post
You forgot that nanothermite can be customized to any property you wish for: It can silently explode, burn invisibly, inundate all of NYC with one of its products while completely hiding the other. It survives fires but ignites at a specially low temp. It can give you a bad cough and then heal it. It can improve your stamina and quench that of your rival. And you can make it fetch a stick.
I know the truth movement doesn't even know which nano thermite to use or how to use it,
Stupid is as stupid does all the do is take dust and scream nano nano nano thermite.
They remind me of Robin Williams caricator Mork from that old show.
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Old 3rd April 2015, 09:46 AM   #173
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Originally Posted by Oystein View Post
Rick answered. No reply from Mark. Rick will follow up with a phone call if another email remains unanswered.
Rick says the $1000 awarded to Griscom last year are still dedicated to the Basile study.
That was on March 08.
Almost 4 weeks later, still no update. I emailed Rick again.
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Old 4th April 2015, 01:40 AM   #174
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Originally Posted by Oystein View Post
That was on March 08.
Almost 4 weeks later, still no update. I emailed Rick again.
The following is from Skeptico. From Rick, I guess we are talking about new technology that doesn't exist yet. Although I don't understand why there was ever any need to ignite these chips to establish if Al & Fe were present.

Quote:
TMP: >>I believe Dr. Griscom mentioned Dr. Millette's study and how he first pre-heated the samples, which ruined the experiment.

Mac: So when is 911 Truth going to retest the samples in an independent lab to get at the Truth?
And following scientific convention, what did Dr. Millette say when Dr Grissom suggested this fact to him? Millette is an expert at what he does. Grissom is a geologist. What did Millette say when asked about this? Without that information, Griscom's rebuttal is of no value.
Chris, do you have Millette's reply about pre-heating the samples. This is what the guy does for a living. Is he that stupid so as to not understand the effect of pre-heating?

TMP: >There is a new technology Mark is looking into which will not destroy the samples, so verification can be done over and over

Mac: Mark B. is a joke. He's had samples for two years now. It takes 30 minutes to drive over to a commercial lab and have his samples tested by independent professionals.

It is taking more time to test the new process, developed by a Nobel Prize winner Dr. Raman that uses Molecular Spectra Analysis to get the chemical composition of materials. RMSA will test the WTC dust in a way that does not destroy the dust (which is becoming rarer and rarer). This new equipment by AcuTech will make it possible to replicate the experiments 100's of times without destroying the samples.
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Old 4th April 2015, 03:53 AM   #175
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Originally Posted by Spanx View Post
The following is from Skeptico. From Rick, I guess we are talking about new technology that doesn't exist yet. Although I don't understand why there was ever any need to ignite these chips to establish if Al & Fe were present.
Rarity indicates natural contamination, and the new process sounds like a truther playing games to me.
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Old 4th April 2015, 06:18 AM   #176
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LMAO.

Rick: "It is taking more time to test the new process, developed by a Nobel Prize winner Dr. Raman that uses Molecular Spectra Analysis to get the chemical composition of materials. RMSA will test the WTC dust in a way that does not destroy the dust (which is becoming rarer and rarer). This new equipment by AcuTech will make it possible to replicate the experiments 100's of times without destroying the samples."

This Dr. Raman developed this "new process", eh? Well, I am impressed, given that Dr. Raman has been dead for 44 years

Raman received the Nobel price in 1930 and developed no such process. A physical effect that he he discovered is used for Raman spectroscopy. This was developed by like 1940.

With the advent of lasers in the 1960, Raman spectroscopy has become a run-of-the-mill analytical technique, alongside FTIR, XEDS, XRD and others. There is absolutely nothing new about it.

"AcuTech" is a manufacturer of small Raman specroscopy devices, and Rick is falling for their marketing. IF Basile were an expert in forensic analysis of dust, and IF Raman spectroscopy were a competent and cost-effective method to analysze particles such as the red-gray chips, then he would have included it in his original proposal.

It seems that Basile is NOT an expert in forensic analysis of dust
OR
Raman spectroscopy is NOT a competent and cost-effective method
OR
Both


These crackpots are merely trying to buy time.
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Old 4th April 2015, 09:00 AM   #177
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Originally Posted by Oystein View Post
This Dr. Raman developed this "new process", eh? Well, I am impressed, given that Dr. Raman has been dead for 44 years
Well, maybe he calls it a "new process", because the process is new to him.

Quote:
Raman received the Nobel price in 1930 and developed no such process. A physical effect that he he discovered is used for Raman spectroscopy. This was developed by like 1940.

With the advent of lasers in the 1960, Raman spectroscopy has become a run-of-the-mill analytical technique, alongside FTIR, XEDS, XRD and others. There is absolutely nothing new about it.
I did a raman experiment during my practical work in physical chemistry. The experiment was very popular among the students because it didn't take many time to execute it. You had to spent two hours to perform the experiment and one afternoon or evening to interpret the data.

Quote:
"AcuTech" is a manufacturer of small Raman specroscopy devices, and Rick is falling for their marketing. IF Basile were an expert in forensic analysis of dust, and IF Raman spectroscopy were a competent and cost-effective method to analysze particles such as the red-gray chips, then he would have included it in his original proposal.
In analytical chemistry, raman spectroscopy is often used as an addition to IR spectroscopy, because you can detect vibrations that are not detectable in IR spectroscopy. Raman spectroscopy detects bonds, if the polarisation of the bond changes during the vibration, while in IR spectroscopy bonds are detected, if their dipole moment changes. Because of this some vibrations are visible in a raman spectrum but not in an IR spectrum and vice versa.
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Old 4th April 2015, 01:33 PM   #178
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Spanx - thanks for that, it's quite funny and also shows the level these people are operating on. I take it these quotes are from a non-public source.

Quote:
TMP: >>I believe Dr. Griscom mentioned Dr. Millette's study and how he first pre-heated the samples, which ruined the experiment.
Pre-heating the samples is truther speak for not understanding why low temperature ashing (LTA) was used by Dr Millette even though Millette expressly states the reason why this technique was used on page 3 and then again on page 6 of his progress report.

They really can't understand that in order to positively identify and characterise the particles embedded in the epoxy matrix using TEM-SAED it requires a technique to separate these particles from this matrix and the metallic gray layer.

By saying that LTA ruined the experiment it shows that:

a) They didn't understand the purpose of this step.
b) They ignored the results of the post LTA experiment of TEM-SAED.
c) They fail to realise that the DSC test, which they champion, destroys the sample and yields no information as to the constituents of the material.

They also fail to acknowledge that a non-destructive technique was also used by Millette; namely FTIR, which not only identified the matrix material, but also confirmed the TEM-SAED analysis showing the presence of kaolin particles.


Quote:
TMP: >There is a new technology Mark is looking into which will not destroy the samples, so verification can be done over and over
There are already such techniques available. In fact such a technique was employed by Harrit et al but they chose not to include the results in the paper. We all know that to be FTIR, which incidentally, Millette also used.

Quote:
Mac: Mark B. is a joke. He's had samples for two years now. It takes 30 minutes to drive over to a commercial lab and have his samples tested by independent professionals.
Indeed.

Quote:
It is taking more time to test the new process, developed by a Nobel Prize winner Dr. Raman that uses Molecular Spectra Analysis to get the chemical composition of materials. RMSA will test the WTC dust in a way that does not destroy the dust (which is becoming rarer and rarer). This new equipment by AcuTech will make it possible to replicate the experiments 100's of times without destroying the samples.
As Oystein has already shown, this is not a new technique and is well established.

It's laughable that they seem to think that it takes time to "test" the "new process" when this technique has been available to the analytical chemist for decades. I'm also wondering why they are in contact with a manufacturer rather than an accredited independent laboratory with materials characterisation equipment and experience.

Last edited by Sunstealer; 4th April 2015 at 01:38 PM.
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Old 26th April 2015, 04:09 PM   #179
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I found something... well, not new, but I found it anyway! Recording of a truther phone conference that took place on 07/31/2013, where several truthers, including Dwain Deets and Barbara Honegger, talked with Mark Basile about his study proposal.

Here is a juicy quote:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=go6kjSTJm_M&t=960

Someone asks in what way Basile thinks he can "advance" the work of Harrit et al, and at 16:34 Basile says this:
Originally Posted by Mark Basile
They didn't show actually that there was elemental aluminium within the basic matrix of the chips themselves.
The entire talk is interesting. For example, he says that he needs $5000 initially, but eventually would need $10,000...


ETA:
Originally Posted by Oystein View Post
...IF Basile were an expert in forensic analysis of dust, and IF Raman spectroscopy were a competent and cost-effective method to analysze particles such as the red-gray chips, then he would have included it in his original proposal.
...
Lo and behold, hear what he says at 17:39:
Originally Posted by Mark Basile
...some of the analytical techniques that I'm looking to use like FTIR ... or even Raman spectroscopy, that is actually a little bit more useful, it does the same type of thing, but it can be a little bit less destructive. Those types of analysis for a given sample can be 250 to 400 dollars a piece.
ETA2
And a couple more bits of info that I find interesting:
1. At 25:40 he explains that donations towards his desired $5000 had two options: One via ANETA (Rick Shadock), that Mark can't spell right, and the other to his own, personal PayPal account!
2. At 27:05: About $1500 are already in
3. At 27:15:
Originally Posted by Mark Basile
Actually, with the funds that exist, I can actually begin some work. What I'm actually gonna start with is primer samples, and basically proving that primer samples cannot do what the nano-thermite does.
And then Millette is mentioned by name, but the recording ends there.

Last edited by Oystein; 26th April 2015 at 04:41 PM. Reason: ETA
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Old 26th April 2015, 04:35 PM   #180
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Is there really any question at this point there is no study actually on-going?
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Old 26th April 2015, 04:43 PM   #181
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Originally Posted by DGM View Post
Is there really any question at this point there is no study actually on-going?
Yes, it surely seems that way.
Rick said he won't answer any more of my questions about Basile. I am trying to get to him by some other route.
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Old 26th April 2015, 04:52 PM   #182
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Originally Posted by Oystein View Post
Yes, it surely seems that way.
Rick said he won't answer any more of my questions about Basile. I am trying to get to him by some other route.
Outside of Ricks claims. Has the existence of a study actually ever been confirmed?

Follow the money on this one "truthers".
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Old 26th April 2015, 05:12 PM   #183
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I am not sure I understand your question. Mark is a real person, we have him on record, in his own voice, talking about his plans.
There was a status report last August written by Mark on Rick's page., Do you doubt Mark wrote that?
So far, he's been fiddling with his samples by his lonesome self, no labs involved.
And no known progress since last August, as even Rick admitted to me just three weeks ago.
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Old 26th April 2015, 05:22 PM   #184
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Originally Posted by Oystein View Post
I am not sure I understand your question. Mark is a real person, we have him on record, in his own voice, talking about his plans.
There was a status report last August written by Mark on Rick's page., Do you doubt Mark wrote that?
So far, he's been fiddling with his samples by his lonesome self, no labs involved.
And no known progress since last August, as even Rick admitted to me just three weeks ago.
"Talking about his plans".

Outside of Ricks word, is there really any evidence of a study or money available for one?

What exactly is Ricks word worth?
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Old 26th April 2015, 06:07 PM   #185
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Originally Posted by DGM View Post
"Talking about his plans".

Outside of Ricks word, is there really any evidence of a study or money available for one?

What exactly is Ricks word worth?
In my first post today, a few posts up from here, I link to a YT that has part of a phone conference recording with Basile from July 2013. In it, Marc mentions that at that point they had about $1500 of the $5000 collected, with some of the money having gone to his own PayPal account, and that he can already start doing a bit with that money.

So there is evidence from Mark that SOME money was there.
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Old 27th April 2015, 07:24 AM   #186
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So he had $1500 and a couple of FTIR tests on samples matching chips a-d would cost $800 max, but he's done nothing and anyway if he was going to start he'd start in the wrong place by looking at meaningless primer samples.

Why pay for an actual test that will tell you exactly what the material is when you can safely do nothing? Laughable.
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Old 11th May 2015, 01:47 PM   #187
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I am dumping an old link (February 6, 2014) here of a radio talk between JM Talboo and Ziggi Zugam about the Basile study:
http://noliesradio.org/archives/76313

Ziggi is introduced as an economics student.
JM says the goal of $5000 has been reached - although at the time it was already known that Mark really wants $10,000.
Mentions Millette's result ("paint").
Says they hope Basile's study will be published in a peer-reviewed journal.
Ziggi says Basile did not want money from AE911T to stay independent.

At 10:20 JM says that Basile has already tested some pieve of metal from a museum or something for conventional explosives, and that came up negative. JM and Ziggi discuss that the samples they have have been kept under sub-optimal conditions where any explosive residues (nitrates) would likely have deteriorated, and they wonder if it would be possible to get to professionally sampled and stored dust probes via Millette! No indication that they ask Millette, though...

From 16 to 21 minutes, Ziggi character-assassinates Chris Mohr.

Then some talk about Frank Greening, who is described as a former JREF "darling", ignoring that Frank was banned from here years ago. Buuuut that's off-topic to this thread, so I am tuning out.
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Old 11th May 2015, 03:01 PM   #188
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Originally Posted by Oystein View Post
At 10:20 JM says that Basile has already tested some pieve of metal from a museum or something for conventional explosives, and that came up negative. JM and Ziggi discuss that the samples they have have been kept under sub-optimal conditions where any explosive residues (nitrates) would likely have deteriorated,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
Sounds about right. Mark didn't find anything because there had to be something wrong with the sample. If his dust study comes up short, any bet they claim he got the wrong dust (or it was switched in the mail)?
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Old 11th May 2015, 03:23 PM   #189
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Originally Posted by Oystein View Post
I am dumping an old link (February 6, 2014) here of a radio talk between JM Talboo and Ziggi Zugam about the Basile study:
http://noliesradio.org/archives/76313

Ziggi is introduced as an economics student.
JM says the goal of $5000 has been reached - although at the time it was already known that Mark really wants $10,000.
15 months and nothing? These tests could easily have been done in 15 DAYS with plenty of time for coffee breaks and long lunches! Hmmm...... I wonder what the delay could be about!
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Old 12th May 2015, 12:14 AM   #190
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Originally Posted by DGM View Post
Sounds about right. Mark didn't find anything because there had to be something wrong with the sample. If his dust study comes up short, any bet they claim he got the wrong dust (or it was switched in the mail)?
Two comments on that:
1. Mark has one sample that he got from Janette McKinley, who also provided Jones and Harrit with their "Sample 1", but Mark got it in a separate delivery directly from McKinley (I probable spell her name incorrectly now; too lazy to check). His other samples are from different sources (different from Jones').

2. One thing that constantly has me wondering: previous dust studies, especially the one by RJ Lee, have established defining characteristics of the WTC dust - qualitatively and quantitatively identified defining markers. Why is there no proposal anywhere to apply these criteria to Basile's or Harrit's sampled to prove they actually have genuine dust from the WTC catastrophe?

Originally Posted by Redwood View Post
15 months and nothing? These tests could easily have been done in 15 DAYS with plenty of time for coffee breaks and long lunches! Hmmm...... I wonder what the delay could be about!
Remember that last August, half a year after the JM+Ziggi talk, Basile's last status report said that he was then in the processes of isolating suitable chip specimens from the dust for testing, and that he then hoped to have finished that task by September:
Originally Posted by Basile in August 2014
Five samples have been screened completely. Two are still ongoing and expected to be completed in about a month.
The strange part of his proposal, as per status report, was that he intended to first burn the chips to test for "reactivity" and then select the best candidates to send to labs...
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Old 6th June 2015, 04:41 PM   #191
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.....the months and years tick by............still no "truthers" wonder where their money went.....
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Old 7th June 2015, 02:21 AM   #192
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I keep asking Rick Shaddock. A few days ago he wrote that he would perhaps respond to me on a " truly open forum, which allows me to respond" and invited me to the forum of the Skeptiko Community - which is about parapsychology, "consciousness science", near-death experiences etc.

So I jumped right in and posted:
http://www.skeptiko-forum.com/thread...-68#post-69191
Originally Posted by me
...You wrote me on May 7th that you had called Mark Basile that day, and that he would prepare a written report within a couple of days.
That was 4 weeks ago.

Well, do you have a written report from Mark?...

... Mark said that he was about to finish the task of selecting suitable red-gray chips from his samples and would be ready to send them off to labs shortly. He promised he would publish monthly update reports once money is being spent.

Since then, silence from Mark. He cannot be reached.
...
So, TruthMakesPeace: Is there any progress with Mark's study?
To which Rick responded:
Originally Posted by Rick Shaddock
Mark will not respond to ithose who are uninformed about main stream news about 9/11. www.911Skeptics.org/news Your emails go to his spam folder, never to be read.
...
Mark is working on the project and is in monthly contact about the progress being made for a study that can be published.
The independent lab or labs or details will not be disclosed until the tests are complete and the study is being prepared fo publication.
ISF (used to be JREF, disowned by James Randi) may try to sabotage the experiment by contacting the lab.


I read that as a "no"
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Old 7th June 2015, 08:27 PM   #193
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Originally Posted by Oystein View Post
I keep asking Rick Shaddock. A few days ago he wrote that he would perhaps respond to me on a " truly open forum, which allows me to respond" and invited me to the forum of the Skeptiko Community - which is about parapsychology, "consciousness science", near-death experiences etc.

So I jumped right in and posted:
http://www.skeptiko-forum.com/thread...-68#post-69191


To which Rick responded:



I read that as a "no"
Give me a thousand bucks or so, Troofies, and I'll have a preliminary report within a week!
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Old 8th June 2015, 12:07 AM   #194
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Originally Posted by Redwood View Post
Give me a thousand bucks or so, Troofies, and I'll have a preliminary report within a week!
Hehe
I even told Rick it would be totally fine by me if the progress report reported no progress, if Mark for example said that he has a beautiful wife and wonderful kids and absolutely better things to do!
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Old 8th June 2015, 05:42 AM   #195
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It's strange how truthers will make the utmost of demands against debunkers, but when it comes to their own people they give them a free pass. They'll happily pay the money and then wait years for nothing to happen. To me it looks like people have been scammed.

You could do the work required in a week. It takes no time to separate red/gray chips using a magnet and a magnifying glass. It would take a couple of hours maximum to make sure you had red/gray chips that had the same characteristics as chips a-d if you had access to a SEM - not difficult to organise.

You could then send a chip each to 4 independent labs for $500 a time and get back 4 reports.

It's laughable that they have taken years just to try and select a couple of chips.

Of course we know why they are prevaricating, it's because they can't replicate thermite with the chips they have and know full well that if they send the chips to an independent lab that the results are going to show the material as paint which will leave a lot of egg on a lot of faces.

My favourite bit was this:
Quote:
The independent lab or labs or details will not be disclosed until the tests are complete and the study is being prepared fo publication.
ISF (used to be JREF, disowned by James Randi) may try to sabotage the experiment by contacting the lab.
Sabotage! It just goes to show what paranoid lunatics these people are. How can you sabotage an independent lab that has been paid for work? Do they not understand that when a contract is agreed that the lab is performing confidential work for a client and that no lab would ever discuss any work with a 3rd party.

No-one cares which lab performs the work as long as it's independent and the material is characterised. The report for characterisation won't come to more than 3 sheets of A4 if that. It's such a basic request.

These people are so incompetent and ignorant, they simply don't have a clue.
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Old 8th June 2015, 08:25 AM   #196
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Originally Posted by Sunstealer
...
Quote:
The independent lab or labs or details will not be disclosed until the tests are complete and the study is being prepared fo publication.
ISF (used to be JREF, disowned by James Randi) may try to sabotage the experiment by contacting the lab.
Sabotage! It just goes to show what paranoid lunatics these people are.

...
Standard out, I think. If the results don't agree with your pre-determined conclusion: Sabotage! (Didn't the one other 'truther' researcher who got the dust take that out?)
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Old 8th June 2015, 08:43 AM   #197
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I can't help comparing the silence and secrecy of Basile with the full transparency that Chris Mohr always had with the donors (and everyone else), when he hired Millette.

Makes one wonder if Basile has something to hide.
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Old 8th June 2015, 09:03 AM   #198
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Originally Posted by pgimeno View Post
Makes one wonder if Basile has something to hide.
It does seem that the most probable explanations for this (apparent) inaction are that either he has something to hide or something to fear. I suspect that he may have some preliminary results that he doesn't want to release, but I suppose it's possible that he simply started thinking about what the Harrit critics were saying and is now reluctant to proceed.
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Old 8th June 2015, 03:13 PM   #199
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Originally Posted by grmcdorman View Post
Standard out, I think. If the results don't agree with your pre-determined conclusion: Sabotage! (Didn't the one other 'truther' researcher who got the dust take that out?)
Yes. Frédérick Henry-Couannier, when he found that his "thermitic" chips weren't "active" in the way that Harrit et al claimed, suspected that they may have been intercepted in the mail and been tampered with.
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Old 8th June 2015, 03:34 PM   #200
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Originally Posted by WilliamSeger View Post
It does seem that the most probable explanations for this (apparent) inaction are that either he has something to hide or something to fear. I suspect that he may have some preliminary results that he doesn't want to release, but I suppose it's possible that he simply started thinking about what the Harrit critics were saying and is now reluctant to proceed.
In science publishing a paper and not releasing also contradicting experimental results is considered fraudulent, unethical. That's what those people did in the original thermite paper.

Basile should publish/post the results to date and face it. That's why Jones left that fantasy for another, to avoid having to admit he was wrong. It's deceitful and irresponsible to not correct known mistakes that continue to fool others.
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