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Old 1st May 2007, 05:54 PM   #161
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You call that help?
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Old 1st May 2007, 05:55 PM   #162
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You can copy and paste it now all you want, it's yours.
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Old 1st May 2007, 05:56 PM   #163
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Originally Posted by Apollo20 View Post
ENIGMA:

It would be great to have some technical input from you, do you have any?
About a chemical reaction that is nothing out of the ordinary....NO

And in case you are interested I might have had one if it wasn't for your flippant attitude.
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Old 1st May 2007, 05:57 PM   #164
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Originally Posted by Apollo20 View Post
You call that help?
Better late than never...
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Old 1st May 2007, 06:01 PM   #165
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Originally Posted by Apollo20 View Post
You call that help?
ASCI: Alt + 0233 =
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Old 1st May 2007, 06:15 PM   #166
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From what I read from Greening's posting attitude here, I have a little idea of why he got ignored by the NIST...
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Old 1st May 2007, 06:20 PM   #167
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Originally Posted by Apollo20 View Post
Yes,

"Do you guys not understand what the word "ignore" means?"

Yes, it's "what Apollo20 does to common sense answers".

When you explain how, when a single bolt in a component at Very Important Place X breaks, a battery of careful and thorough tests are done on it; and then ask why NIST hasn't tested all those bolts that used to hold together the WTC towers - see, that question has a very common sense answer that you seem to be choosing to ignore.
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Old 1st May 2007, 06:28 PM   #168
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Originally Posted by Pardalis View Post


Glad I could help.
Apollo is right, that is a cute "e"!

Look at him! Adorable! Always with a big smile for everyone regardless of conspiratorial temperament, I just love that! Don't hug until you see the white of his eye (tee hee). And that little beanie cap he's wearing - where on earth did you find that?

Someday he'll grow up to be a big, stiff, right-angled "E" with faultless proportions and a rather square mindset. But we can marvel at such an itty-bitty fuzzy-wuzzy round-guy cutie-pie "e" for at least a little while. Such a little heartbreaker!
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Old 1st May 2007, 06:45 PM   #169
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Originally Posted by Apollo20 View Post
This looks incorrect, please check:

"6000 pounds of PVC per floor-that is about 7 pounds /square foot."
you are absolutely correct. I gave sq ft/pound. too many things going on at once. Thanks for the correction.
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Old 1st May 2007, 06:46 PM   #170
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Originally Posted by ConspiRaider View Post
And that little beanie cap he's wearing - where on earth did you find that?
That little beanie cap is a yarmulke...that is a Jewish
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Old 1st May 2007, 06:50 PM   #171
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Originally Posted by Apollo20 View Post
RWGUINN:

You used the term "pretty deep" in your last post. Could you please quantify this and provide a reference.
I thought I did.
It is a number I made up, assuming the average wall/flange thickness of the supports in the area of collapse was 1 to 1.5 inch, I figured 1/2 depth for a 30-50% strength reduction (same as thermal reduction at 750C), assuming your reaction reduces the strength to zero. Conservative, yes.
But I did say arbitrary in my post.
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Old 1st May 2007, 06:52 PM   #172
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Originally Posted by Crazy Chainsaw View Post
Sulfuric acid has had decades to penetrate the steel is that long enough?
So, what you are saying was that the towers were ready to come down anyway?
Sulphuric acid had been eating away at the steel for decades, and nobody noticed, during any of the periodic inspections and/or remodelings?

OOOOKKKKKKKAY...
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Last edited by rwguinn; 1st May 2007 at 06:52 PM. Reason: damn arthritis!
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Old 1st May 2007, 06:55 PM   #173
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Originally Posted by rwguinn View Post
So, what you are saying was that the towers were ready to come down anyway?
Sulphuric acid had been eating away at the steel for decades, and nobody noticed, during any of the periodic inspections and/or remodelings?

OOOOKKKKKKKAY...
Didn't you know that it was a result of air pollution that the wtc fell. it's our fault...oh the inhumanity
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Old 1st May 2007, 08:09 PM   #174
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Enigma. I already told you. The WTC was destroyed because UPN 9 was jealous that the twin towers gave Channel 11 free advertising.
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Old 1st May 2007, 08:24 PM   #175
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Originally Posted by parky76 View Post
Enigma. I already told you. The WTC was destroyed because UPN 9 was jealous that the twin towers gave Channel 11 free advertising.
Nah..that was a story designed to let the real perpetrators go scott free and continue polluting...and these guys thought it was the government...HA
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Old 2nd May 2007, 07:16 AM   #176
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So the troothers are now claiming that since the tip of the flame was touching the bridge, and that is the 'hottest part of the flame', that it meant the heat transfer was much better than those columns that were only immersed in the flames.

*sigh*
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Old 2nd May 2007, 07:26 AM   #177
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Originally Posted by kookbreaker View Post
So the troothers are now claiming that since the tip of the flame was touching the bridge, and that is the 'hottest part of the flame', that it meant the heat transfer was much better than those columns that were only immersed in the flames.

*sigh*
you mean they still confuse heat and temperature. The temepature gradient for a flame is pretty conclusive in that that base has a higher temperature than the tip. For other reasons that I don't really want to get into right now, the heat you can measure at the tip is almost always more than at the base but how do they apply this to 9/11. To me it's just proof that their non-knowledge of physics isn't just restricted to 9/11 but it applys to life in general.
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Old 2nd May 2007, 11:05 AM   #178
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Crazy Chainsaw
Sulfuric acid has had decades to penetrate the steel is that long enough?
So, what you are saying was that the towers were ready to come down anyway?
Sulphuric acid had been eating away at the steel for decades, and nobody noticed, during any of the periodic inspections and/or remodelings?
H2SO4 may have had some time to corrode the metal somewhat but I suspect not much since any new deposits would have to make their way throughthe layer already affected before attacking new steel. However the layer of sulfur containing compounds on the steel would increase over time. This would have little effect on the steel UNTIL the temperature rose high enough to cause a eutectic process lowering the melting point and increasing loss of strength as a function of temperature.

Yes, there is a process by which air pollution can contribute to building collapse during major fires.
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Old 2nd May 2007, 11:32 AM   #179
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Originally Posted by ~enigma~ View Post
you mean they still confuse heat and temperature. The temepature gradient for a flame is pretty conclusive in that that base has a higher temperature than the tip. For other reasons that I don't really want to get into right now, the heat you can measure at the tip is almost always more than at the base

This is something I'd be curious to hear more about... If anyone feels like explaining it to me.

Seems to me, applying my ignorant logic, that while the base may have higher temperature, the tip has higher heat transfer. This makes it feel "hotter", however more importantly it means the tip will heat up another object faster than the base (which, at least at the basic level of experimentation, appears to be true).

In which case the "troofer" claim does have some vague merit, in that the tip of said fire would transfer more heat to a piece of steel than the base.

Of course it all seems a bit irrelevant to me as an ENGULFED and enclosed building will have plenty of scenarios of steel exposed to both tips and bases of various flames. Additionally, in an enclosed space the air temperature would increase much more dramatically than the air around an open highway, thus the heated steel in the building would be less capable of cooling through thermal radiation.

The tanker fire also occurred in the middle of the night while 9/11 occurred during day time. In addition the average high for Oakland in April is 19 degrees whereas the average high for New York in September is 24 degrees. Thus you also have the NYC event happening in a significantly hotter climate.

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Old 2nd May 2007, 08:32 PM   #180
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Originally Posted by jaydeehess View Post
H2SO4 may have had some time to corrode the metal somewhat but I suspect not much since any new deposits would have to make their way throughthe layer already affected before attacking new steel. However the layer of sulfur containing compounds on the steel would increase over time. This would have little effect on the steel UNTIL the temperature rose high enough to cause a eutectic process lowering the melting point and increasing loss of strength as a function of temperature.

Yes, there is a process by which air pollution can contribute to building collapse during major fires.
IT is more important what the H2SO4 Does on the Zinc, and on the concrete, there is a lot of Gypsum in the concrete that would allow H2SO4 to go right though the concrete without reacting with it.
Over time the amount of Gypsum would even increase, and break down of Lime stone aggregate, would create and release Calcium Chloride.
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Old 2nd May 2007, 08:45 PM   #181
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Originally Posted by Crazy Chainsaw View Post
IT is more important what the H2SO4 Does on the Zinc, and on the concrete, there is a lot of Gypsum in the concrete that would allow H2SO4 to go right though the concrete without reacting with it.
Over time the amount of Gypsum would even increase, and break down of Lime stone aggregate, would create and release Calcium Chloride.
Again, you are talking about stress relief. if the concrete breaks down, and the pan disappears, the load on the floor trusses is reduced, which lessens the sag and the crippling load at the floor/column joint. How does that aid collapse?
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Old 3rd May 2007, 02:43 AM   #182
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Speaking of the Truthers reactions, did any of you guys catch this one yet? (Not quite sure where it's origin is from though...)

Did you happen to see the photo of the damage 8600 gallons of gasoline exploding and burning causes?? See any powderized concrete???? Dozens of burned cars???? Ejected material blocks away?

Gasoline burns much much hotter than jet fuel (Kerosene). In the hijacked planes, there was @ 15,000 gallons of kerosene at takeoff. Figure they burned up 10% on takeoff and flying. 13,500. Figure at least 50% of the remaining fuel exploded on impact. That is a low estimate, in my opinion. 6750 explodes, 6750 burns.

Now, look at this overpass. I have welded the 3" rebar that reinforces the concrete on these California overpasses, certified double butt welds, with 9018 low hydrogen electrodes, rebar preheated to 250F.

I am unaware of what "steel beams" they allude to, unless it is embedded in the concrete column supporting the roadbed. But, it is their story, let them tell it.
I have many many times passed over this very section of freeway. I used to work in Hayward, 10 minutes down the freeway. This section is less than 3 stories tall.

The concrete did not powderize. The steel did not melt. The asphalt, which is made of petroleum products, simply melted and swayed, not powderized, not burned and gone. The story states the "steel beams buckled" and the bolts holding them "melted." Collapsed. In Place. All the pieces still there, except these "bolts." No hole in the ground, even though THIS explosion and fire was at GROUND LEVEL.


The article also states definitively that the temperatures reached 2750F. HOW they KNOW this is beyond me, unless they are stating gasoline burns at 2750 degrees, but also stating steel doesn't melt then.
NOW YOU GET MY POINT????????

If steel beams here in California didn't disappear and powderize to nothing at OFFICIALLY GIVEN TEMP of 2750 with gasoline, like at the WTC Tower's core beams did, HOW IN THE HELL did KEROSENE POWDERIZE CONCRETE AT 675F maximum temperatures?????? Especially given the fact the jet fuel only burned the TOP FLOORS????
Read the article by the Danish Professor of Chemistry.
Kerosene burns at 675F.


Officially now (facts given by authorities), California has stated gasoline can't melt steel, only cause it to turn PLASTIC UNDER EXTREME HEAT.

If the official 911 story had ANY credibility, the towers should have looked like elongated pretzels. Twisted steel.

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Old 3rd May 2007, 02:55 AM   #183
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Originally Posted by Slayhamlet View Post
ASCI: Alt + 0233 =
Alt Gr e -
Ctrl Alt e -
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Old 3rd May 2007, 02:57 AM   #184
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Originally Posted by aggle-rithm View Post
That's why steel is smelted in an open-air environment.
When I want the gas oven to work quicker I just open the door.
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Old 3rd May 2007, 03:57 AM   #185
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Originally Posted by ref View Post
That looks baaad.

Wonder what the truthers will make out of this.
Maybe they will paint in an F16...
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Old 3rd May 2007, 04:13 PM   #186
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Originally Posted by rwguinn View Post
Again, you are talking about stress relief. if the concrete breaks down, and the pan disappears, the load on the floor trusses is reduced, which lessens the sag and the crippling load at the floor/column joint. How does that aid collapse?
However if the concrete pans only burn in a certain section not the whole pans then that places more uneven loads on the trusses, as well as weakening the trusses from the heat produced by the burned sections.
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Old 3rd May 2007, 04:35 PM   #187
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I still can't get over the fact that people would thing that "powderized" is a real word and expect to get taken seriously.....
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Old 31st March 2017, 11:29 AM   #188
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Happened again.

In Atlanta.

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/traffic-...se-in-atlanta/

Guess someone was storing Therm*te under there.

Lot of black smoke too.

Hmmm
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Old 31st March 2017, 01:27 PM   #189
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Nope, PVC pipes were under the bridge though..........
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Old 31st March 2017, 01:41 PM   #190
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Originally Posted by fuelair View Post
Nope, PVC pipes were under the bridge though..........
Don't tell 9/11 truth believers... when they find out PVC has nearly four times the heat energy of thermite, the 9/11 truth story will have the NWO operatives planting PVC pipes in the WTC. Some plastics have close to 10 times the heat energy of thermite... Mj/kg...
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Old 31st March 2017, 02:38 PM   #191
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Originally Posted by The Big Dog View Post
Lot of black smoke too.

Hmmm
Black smoke? Isn't that too low-temp to cause the steel to weaken, or something?
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Old 31st March 2017, 03:25 PM   #192
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This false flag is an obvious sign AE911 is getting too close..........Damn you Trump.

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Old 31st March 2017, 05:07 PM   #193
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Originally Posted by fuelair View Post
Nope, PVC pipes were under the bridge though..........
Has the storage of PVC pipe ever caused the collapse of a steel framed bridge?

I'm just asking questions.


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Old 31st March 2017, 05:16 PM   #194
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Originally Posted by DGM View Post
Has the storage of PVC pipe ever caused the collapse of a steel framed bridge?

I'm just asking questions.


No idea in all fairness, it is simply being noted and checked on by the engineers working out what caused it!!!
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Old 31st March 2017, 05:22 PM   #195
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Originally Posted by fuelair View Post
No idea in all fairness, it is simply being noted and checked on by the engineers working out what caused it!!!
Reports are the fire commanders "pulled" the men back just before the collapse.

Lucky timing? I think not.....................




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Old 31st March 2017, 05:31 PM   #196
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They've made arrests on this one:

http://www.11alive.com/traffic/i-85-...apse/427369010

The Illuminati is getting sloppy...or are they?
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Old 31st March 2017, 05:48 PM   #197
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Bridge collapsed?? From ordinary overpass fires?
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Old 31st March 2017, 06:15 PM   #198
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You can see the stuff under the bridge, the plastic pipe rolls on maps with the road photos. Is the google street view. My mom lives a mile or so from the area.
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Old 31st March 2017, 06:24 PM   #199
Mark F
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Originally Posted by DGM View Post
Has the storage of PVC pipe ever caused the collapse of a steel framed bridge?

I'm just asking questions.


First time in history and you know what that means,...
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Old 31st March 2017, 08:38 PM   #200
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Originally Posted by ref View Post
That looks baaad.

Wonder what the truthers will make out of this.
That NTSB should check for explosives.

They (truthers) know fire cannot take down a steel framed structure.Might as well have them check the site for nanothermite and mini neutron bombs.

Most likely they will state it has no relationship with the WTC.
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