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Old 15th October 2019, 09:16 AM   #121
rockysmith76
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Originally Posted by Venom View Post
Stop eating beef and pork.
Reduce video streaming.
In autumn I barely keep the heat or AC on at all.

But those are hard to do.
By not eating beef you're leaving more cows alive and their farts are a major carbon foot print.
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Old 15th October 2019, 09:45 AM   #122
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I run my car every morning for 15 minutes to heat it up, even in the summer
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Old 15th October 2019, 11:53 AM   #123
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Originally Posted by rockysmith76 View Post
By not eating beef you're leaving more cows alive and their farts are a major carbon foot print.
If the market shrinks, they will breed fewer of them.
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Old 16th October 2019, 09:57 AM   #124
rockysmith76
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Originally Posted by crescent View Post
If the market shrinks, they will breed fewer of them.
Wrong! They will be abandoned and go feral and be unchecked in both vegetation consumption and gaseous emissions. Eat more beef, not less.
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Old 17th October 2019, 10:28 AM   #125
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Smarter consumers and energy efficiency in the newer productswe use has made a difference in power usage,and more importantly to said consumers, the bills.

The repair and reuse of older things, not primarily electric domestic goods, will save some energy use at the industrial level but not immediately. A new handle on an old shovel or a bike restored to use from parts will last a few more years use.
I know because my shed holds a bunch of them.

Then the sticky wicket issue of shuttered factories and lost jobs because nobody buys enough of a widget to keep it profitable. All a nasty detail in the evolution of a society. The horse harness industry isn't doing well lately.
But other new industry has stepped up to provide jobs and sustain families. All part of the ebb and flow of the fabric of life.

Before anyone jumps my tail on this I have been on the losing side of this a few times and recovered.

Grass roots efforts and spending habits will shape and reshape the markets at higher levels. Our kids will make the things we loved so much undesirable and obsolete. And they will go away too.

We take reasonable well thought out steps, the future will be fine. Many of those are already in use. But still a lot more needed.
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Old 21st October 2019, 02:02 AM   #126
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A good article about personal responsibility for climate change:
https://theness.com/neurologicablog/...ll-hypocrites/

Yes, we are all hypocrites in this, as we do not live monastic lives. We need a system change (which is what XR are focused on). We can make changes to our lives on a personal level, but run the risk of making things worse if we do. (eg. only eating locally produced food, even when the carbon footprint is higher).

There is a lot of misinformation out there for this as well, such as those that are opposed to renewables, and have some tip bit of info about spinning reserve.

Or that if we stop using plastic bags, and go to cotton bags, they would have to be used 7100 times (or 131 times if just considering global warming potential).
https://phys.org/news/2018-08-reuse-bags.html
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Old 23rd October 2019, 08:30 AM   #127
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Here's a novel approach, sue your government and get some of those sweet sweet tax dollars to help you with your trauma.

Canadian teens to sue Ottawa over government's role in climate change




I have an even better idea. Raise the age for getting a driver's license from 16 to 21. I'm sure these young people won't object, they'll happily continue riding their bicycles/ Climate win !
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Old 23rd October 2019, 09:38 AM   #128
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Originally Posted by Stout View Post
Here's a novel approach, sue your government and get some of those sweet sweet tax dollars to help you with your trauma.

Canadian teens to sue Ottawa over government's role in climate change




I have an even better idea. Raise the age for getting a driver's license from 16 to 21. I'm sure these young people won't object, they'll happily continue riding their bicycles/ Climate win !
Great idea! The bonus will be a cut in accident claims and insurance payouts. Maybe even a rate reduction.
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Old 23rd October 2019, 09:38 AM   #129
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Originally Posted by Stout View Post
Here's a novel approach, sue your government and get some of those sweet sweet tax dollars to help you with your trauma.

Canadian teens to sue Ottawa over government's role in climate change




I have an even better idea. Raise the age for getting a driver's license from 16 to 21. I'm sure these young people won't object, they'll happily continue riding their bicycles/ Climate win !
They wouldnít, nor should they. Targeting this group with the consequences of climate change is unethical, unfair and still ineffective because the scope is too small.

Climate change is one of those problems that shows one of the reasons lassie fair capitalism is not viable economic system. Individual or small groups talking action on their own harm those individuals without helping the larger situation so individual actions taken by rational actors will largely be for show rather than something that makes a real difference.

One of the notable things about climate change and climate change denial is the depths that people with libertarian leanings will go to try and deny the reality of climate change. One of the proposed reasons for this is that it is a problem that clearly requires collective action to deal with. This creates a cognitive dissonance where they either need to accept the reality of climate change and the need for centralized collective action or stick to their libertarian dogma.

The former would effectively make them liberals (individual freedom of action and free markets built within a framework of democratically agreed to regulation to ensure fairness and efficiency) so the only alterative that allows them to stick to their libertarian dogma is to deny that the problem exists.

This is far from a new problem in economics; itís just another example of the tragedy of the unmanaged commons. History, game theory and common sense all tell us the solution needs to be collective not individual and the measuring stick needs to be ones willingness to be part of a democratically agreed to common solution, and that individual actions outside of this are largely just for show.
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Old 23rd October 2019, 09:48 AM   #130
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Originally Posted by lomiller View Post
They wouldnít, nor should they. Targeting this group with the consequences of climate change is unethical, unfair and still ineffective because the scope is too small.

Climate change is one of those problems that shows one of the reasons lassie fair capitalism is not viable economic system. Individual or small groups talking action on their own harm those individuals without helping the larger situation so individual actions taken by rational actors will largely be for show rather than something that makes a real difference.

One of the notable things about climate change and climate change denial is the depths that people with libertarian leanings will go to try and deny the reality of climate change. One of the proposed reasons for this is that it is a problem that clearly requires collective action to deal with. This creates a cognitive dissonance where they either need to accept the reality of climate change and the need for centralized collective action or stick to their libertarian dogma.

The former would effectively make them liberals (individual freedom of action and free markets built within a framework of democratically agreed to regulation to ensure fairness and efficiency) so the only alterative that allows them to stick to their libertarian dogma is to deny that the problem exists.

This is far from a new problem in economics; itís just another example of the tragedy of the unmanaged commons. History, game theory and common sense all tell us the solution needs to be collective not individual and the measuring stick needs to be ones willingness to be part of a democratically agreed to common solution, and that individual actions outside of this are largely just for show.
Well gee! The small changes that any individual tries to make in their own lives would be so much smaller. Maybe nobody should bother with such ineffective actions.
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Old 23rd October 2019, 10:10 AM   #131
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A group of individuals makes up a collective though. and given the amount, the sheer numbers of people who are genuinely concerned about climate change is massive I think a lead-by-example approach is far more effective than talking about retooling the entire economic system.

There's the advantage of starting such a movement today, willingly of course, while you advocate for a political solution that requires people to do what you're already doing. Show everybody how it's done. Make an energy intensive lifestyle uncool, like smoking and make low impact living cool, or cooler, like yoga.

Two people living in a four bedroom house ? Maybe it's time to downsize to that energy efficient condo ?

Do you really need another trans continental vacation or a cruise ?

How about that yacht ? Maybe it's time to either move onto it or recycle it.

Having a corporate or environmental conference ? How about a video conference instead ?

These are all actions that if taken by a collective of individuals could really make a difference in the way we work and play in the world.
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Old 26th October 2019, 12:56 AM   #132
Orphia Nay
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Originally Posted by Stout View Post
Here's a novel approach, sue your government and get some of those sweet sweet tax dollars to help you with your trauma.

Canadian teens to sue Ottawa over government's role in climate change
From your link:

"We say that [the federal government] should be ordered to do so in a way that complies with the rights of these people under the Charter," he continued, adding the youths aren't asking for financial compensation.


Originally Posted by Stout View Post
I have an even better idea. Raise the age for getting a driver's license from 16 to 21. I'm sure these young people won't object, they'll happily continue riding their bicycles/ Climate win !

Do you really think they would object?

They're being supported by the David Suzuki Foundation.

I first heard of climate change in 1986 when I heard him on ABC radio Australia. It was a significant moment.

My dad put his face in his hands while listening to David Suzuki. I'd never seen anything like it.

I hadn't got a licence at that stage, and since then, I never did get one.

I've been using public transport or walking all my life, and I'm now in my 50s.

(David Suzuki is now an anti-GMOer, which I definitely think is disappointing, so don't think you can dismiss my efforts based on that point if my efforts make people feel guilty about not doing your part.)
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Old 26th October 2019, 06:22 PM   #133
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Originally Posted by Orphia Nay View Post
From your link:

"We say that [the federal government] should be ordered to do so in a way that complies with the rights of these people under the Charter," he continued, adding the youths aren't asking for financial compensation.
Fair catch.

Would they object ? I don't know but government putting the suggestion out there would certainly give us and answer. We can go on about wind and solar forever but, where I live we're all on hydorelectric so there's not really much a government can do other than restrict peoples choices.

I did the whole no car thing, 10+ years. Took transit, rode a bicycle, walked. It was easy living in an urban environment even now I hardly drive. I drive so little that I get a special discount on my insurance. The discount is not related to climate in any way, it's strictly a probability of getting into an accident thing.

David Suzuki, unfortunately, has a massive ecological footprint and is firmly in the do as I say, not as I do camp.
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