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Tags !MOD BOX WARNING! , Amanda Knox , Italy cases , Meredith Kercher , murder cases , Raffaele Sollecito

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Old 1st July 2019, 02:52 PM   #521
Samson
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Originally Posted by Vixen View Post
His saying Knox wasn't there is equivalent to Knox omitting to mention Guede was there. Honour amongst thieves and all that. "Thou shalt not grass".
Not at all, Guede knew Knox had been dragged into it before she knew he had anything to do with it. For her to not mention he was there would have been an easily provable lie, as would Guede saying she was there. Neither were at that stage aware how the matter would play out.
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Old 1st July 2019, 03:30 PM   #522
LondonJohn
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Originally Posted by toto View Post
I think you are being a tad provocative with your cartwheel remark seeing as though it started the thread so many years ago. You can't want this thread to continue indefinitely can you , like a version of Escher's stairs?

Haha yes. And of course the satirical nature of that opening post covered off yet another one of the inventions of the pro-guilt crowd and the unthinking mass media who were desperate for racy, provocative copy: the idea that Knox was somehow merrily turning cartwheels in the police station while her friend lay dead in the mortuary, and that such callous and inappropriate bahaviour was in and of itself a pointer towards Knox's psychotic personality and probable guilt.

As so very often, the truth appears to have been somewhat different. It seems that Knox was doing some yoga stretches in the police station to try to alleviate stress and cumulative tiredness. A police officer then came in and complimented Knox on her flexibility, and Knox showed him a couple of balance and posture exercises.

But yes, round and round Escher's never-ending staircase we go. And with reference to Escher, can it be long before a pro-guilt commentator ties in another of his famous illustrations - that of water appearing to flow uphill - to accusations of Sollecito's father and "mafia fixes"......?
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Old 1st July 2019, 04:19 PM   #523
Bill Williams
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Originally Posted by LondonJohn View Post
But yes, round and round Escher's never-ending staircase we go. And with reference to Escher, can it be long before a pro-guilt commentator ties in another of his famous illustrations - that of water appearing to flow uphill - to accusations of Sollecito's father and "mafia fixes"......?
Oy vey.

We're fresh from Knox in Italy at an Innocence Project event, while guilter-nutters claimed she could not travel internationally.

We're fresh from the ECHR finding that the calunnia conviction was a result of rights violations, while guilter-nutters claimed that that conviction would stand no matter what.

No matter, all that is now forgotten! All that has evaporated, and the guilter-nutters have reached really deep into the bag of factoids. Now it's cartwheels and canoodling! Like someone here said, we've cycled back to Continuation #1 of this thread!!!!!!!

We'll surely get to Continuation #56 if all the factoids get repeated.....

ONE.....

BY.....

ONE.....
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Old 1st July 2019, 05:54 PM   #524
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Originally Posted by Vixen View Post
Look at the timing. A couple of days after Knox' appearance in Modena.

Guede is saying, hello, I'm here. Can't say anything just now or I'll get into trouble.

It's no coincidence. It's a warning shot across her bow.
You should try disguising your affection for Guede a little less clumsily. He "can't say anything just now"? About what? The Go Fund Me page TJMK is about to launch to help him self-publish his "memoirs"? Quennell and HarryRag fighting over who gets to adopt him post-incarceration?

Nothing stopped him from talking non-stop lying during the Leosini interview over 3 years ago. Nor did I ever hear of him getting into any trouble over that interview.

Methinks his "warning shot" would have been better fired by actually testifying during the Hellman trial directly against Knox & Sollecito about what took place in the cottage on the night of 11/1/07. Which never happened. Was that a coincidence?
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Old 1st July 2019, 06:03 PM   #525
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Originally Posted by Vixen View Post
Mignini saw the body at the crime scene. He saw Knox have a melt down when her knife drawer was searched.

<fx taps side of nose>

He knows who did it.

If you read further in the article he says he would do it all again and ask for a life sentence.

What kind of a diseased mind would want to see a murderer walk free?
Because nobody would have a delayed reaction when taken to the place her friend was brutally murdered, heh, Vix? Since you and Mignini believe the murder weapon did not come from that drawer, but from Sollecito's kitchen, why on earth would she react to THAT knife drawer?

<fx taps side of nose>

He (and you) THINK you know who did it. The Supreme Court disagrees with you both.

Yes, he'd do it all again....and he'd lose again.

What kind of a diseased mind would want to imprison innocent people because their narcissism keeps them from admitting they were wrong?
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Old 1st July 2019, 06:09 PM   #526
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Originally Posted by Vixen View Post
Haha! Makes a change from her canoodling outside the cottage, laughing her head off at the Questura and turning cartwheels in front of the police.
Pathetic. Is that really all you've got?
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Old 1st July 2019, 06:20 PM   #527
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Originally Posted by Vixen View Post
His saying Knox wasn't there is equivalent to Knox omitting to mention Guede was there. Honour amongst thieves and all that. "Thou shalt not grass".
Wait a minute. I thought Amanda was setting up Guede to take the fall when she pointed out his crap in the toilet and his bloody footprint on the bathmat to the police? Add to that her leaving his visible bloody shoe prints in the hallway and his bloody palm print under Meredith's body. Oh, and don't forget the 'staged' break in that perfectly mimicked his break in of the lawyers' office.

"Thou shalt be consistent when pulling crap out of one's nether regions."
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Old 1st July 2019, 06:27 PM   #528
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Originally Posted by Vixen View Post
Oh dear. At a murder scene, the scene needs to be kept as unchanged as possible. IOW in this case when Mignini arrived, Stefanoni was there heading up the forensics team. Mignini had to think on his feet as to what was more important: capturing DNA or getting the body temperature. He came down on the side of getting the DNA. By that time anyway, Meredith had been dead over twelve hours so an estimate of TOD would not have been exact anyway. We know already the time of death fell within a two-hour time frame. Closely connected to Knox and Sollecito switching off their phones.
I realize you're trying to defend Mignini but please explain to me how obtaining body temperature put capturing DNA at risk? A small incision in the abdomen to insert a thermometer into the liver has zero chance of destroying potential DNA evidence. Hell, Meredith was face up so she didn't even need to be rolled over. Obtaining body temperature is standard procedures performed millions of times at crime scenes the world over. What was it about THIS crime scene that justified deviating from standard procedures?

Trying to suggest to much time had already passed does not in any way diminish the massive incompetence exhibited by waiting over nine hours after arriving to take body temperature. Had Lalli been allowed to take her temperature when he arrived, it would have been within 18 hours of her death, which would result in a much more accurate estimate than one based on a temperature taken within 27 hours of her death. This is indefensible.

Funny how you claim that even if Lalli had taken her temperature as soon as he arrived it wouldn't lead to a very accurate estimate, and then in the same breath you suggest "we know" TOD within a two-hour time frame, even though body temperature was taken more than nine hours after he arrived. So which is it... would a much earlier test have resulted in a much more accurate estimate or, if not, how was TOD estimated within a two hour window when they waited over nine hours to take her temp?
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Old 1st July 2019, 06:34 PM   #529
Bill Williams
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Originally Posted by Vixen View Post
Mignini saw the body at the crime scene. He saw Knox have a melt down when her knife drawer was searched.

<fx taps side of nose>

He knows who did it.

If you read further in the article he says he would do it all again and ask for a life sentence.

What kind of a diseased mind would want to see a murderer walk free?
So you admit that Knox was a suspect well, well before the Nov 5/6 interrogation.

You then must be relieved that the ECHR just recently said that this suspect, Knox, had had her rights violated when not provided with a lawyer or a competent translator.
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Old 1st July 2019, 07:11 PM   #530
Stacyhs
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Originally Posted by Vixen View Post
Oh dear. At a murder scene, the scene needs to be kept as unchanged as possible. IOW in this case when Mignini arrived, Stefanoni was there heading up the forensics team. Mignini had to think on his feet as to what was more important: capturing DNA or getting the body temperature. He came down on the side of getting the DNA. By that time anyway, Meredith had been dead over twelve hours so an estimate of TOD would not have been exact anyway. We know already the time of death fell within a two-hour time frame. Closely connected to Knox and Sollecito switching off their phones.
What a silly post. As mentioned already, taking the body temperature ASAP is standard operating procedure for a very good reasons. It does NOT prohibit DNA collection.

What "two-hour time frame"? The TOD was put at between "9:00-9:30 PM and the early hours of Nov. 2." Maybe UK math is different?

Got to love the " Closely connected to Knox and Sollecito switching off their phones" bit. They were turned off before 9:00 yet the prosecution claims the murder occurred about 11:00 -11:30. What were they doing between a quarter to 9 and 11:00?
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Old 1st July 2019, 07:55 PM   #531
Stacyhs
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Robert Glass, the idiot host of the "interview" I posted upthread is still talking about the "mixed blood" found "all over the roommate's room". Sheesh.



Quote:
Roberta Glass

June 12 at 10:49 PM ∑

...
Death Becomes Us gives Meredith Kercherís murderer Amanda Knox top billing while tossing her former innocence fraud partner Damien Echols to the curb. She will not be asked about why her blood was found mixed blood of Meredithís all over her roommates room where the burglary was staged and the bathroom. Her paying audience will never ask themselves why they have to dismiss all the DNA that implicated her and Raffaele Sollecito as contaminated and wrong but accept all the DNA that implicates Rudy Guede as correct.
ETA: Just where have i heard the term "innocence fraud before"? Oh, yes...from Vixen.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vixen View Post
Please do not quote me out of context. I said some cases could be seen as innocence fraud, such as a killer pretending to be the victim.

Last edited by Stacyhs; 1st July 2019 at 09:21 PM.
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Old 1st July 2019, 09:25 PM   #532
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More idiocy from Roberta Glass's FB page
Quote:
Lynn Hartman I am shocked. I always thought she was innocent. I never heard about the mixed blood. Only the blood of the man from the bar.

Roberta Glass Lynn Hartman I know me too. I can’t believe how long it took me to come around on this case. In fairness- Amanda Knox’s father spent 1 million dollars to PR firm Gogerty Marriott to spin the story. None of the evidence will never sway did hard Amanda Knox supporters though. They like to say the mixed blood is just co mingled DNA and it lights up under luminal because Knox somehow had root vegetable (that also light up like blood under luminal) all over her feet.
https://www.facebook.com/roberta.glass.35
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Old 1st July 2019, 10:32 PM   #533
Bill Williams
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Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
More idiocy from Roberta Glass's FB page

https://www.facebook.com/roberta.glass.35
Who is Roberta Glass? Looks like another Nick van der Leek.
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Old 2nd July 2019, 12:03 AM   #534
Stacyhs
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Originally Posted by Bill Williams View Post
Who is Roberta Glass? Looks like another Nick van der Leek.
She's just another self-styled crime "expert" who has a podcast which only exposes her ignorance. She's another one of those "they're ALL guilty" people.
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Old 2nd July 2019, 12:46 AM   #535
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Originally Posted by bagels View Post
Harry Rag
1 day ago
Amanda Knox repeatedly makes the false claim she was exonerated by the Italian Supreme Court when in reality she was acquitted due to insufficient evidence.

lol
Does the word "exonerate" even have a definition in Italian law?

Hoots
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Old 2nd July 2019, 03:05 AM   #536
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Originally Posted by Numbers View Post
My understanding that since the calunnia conviction had a sentence of three years, and her detention awaiting trial under the murder/rape charges was one year, she would not be entitled under Italian law to any compensation for the three years attributed to the calunnia charge unless there was a revision (a dismissal or acquittal after conviction) and that the initial detention most likely would not be compensated under Italian law because the Italian courts could claim that her (coerced) statements from the Nov. 5/6 interrogation, relating to seeing Lumumba commit the murder/rape, justified the detention.

Italian law would allow, but not assure, compensation for the full extent of her detention and imprisonment for the calunnia charge following a revision of the calunnia conviction.
Your memory is better than mine on this. She spent a total of 3 years and 11 months in prison with the first year considered detention. The only thing I see on this is that Raffaele Sollecito asked for roughly 500K in compensation and that was denied. Whether Italy will handle this differently for Knox is questionable but I would love to see it happen.
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Old 2nd July 2019, 03:12 AM   #537
Bill Williams
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Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
She's just another self-styled crime "expert" who has a podcast which only exposes her ignorance. She's another one of those "they're ALL guilty" people.
So - her views are enough to balance off the combined views of Steve Moore, Mark Godsey, Saul Kassim, John Douglas, Judge Heavey, Dr. Peter Gill...... etc.?

She is skookum if you ask me.
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Old 2nd July 2019, 03:16 AM   #538
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Originally Posted by Bill Williams View Post
Oy vey.

We're fresh from Knox in Italy at an Innocence Project event, while guilter-nutters claimed she could not travel internationally.

We're fresh from the ECHR finding that the calunnia conviction was a result of rights violations, while guilter-nutters claimed that that conviction would stand no matter what.

No matter, all that is now forgotten! All that has evaporated, and the guilter-nutters have reached really deep into the bag of factoids. Now it's cartwheels and canoodling! Like someone here said, we've cycled back to Continuation #1 of this thread!!!!!!!

We'll surely get to Continuation #56 if all the factoids get repeated.....

ONE.....

BY.....

ONE.....
It's sad, really. Most of the pro-guilt crowd have quietly gone on to other matters without admitting they were wrong about this case. The motivation of the few that remain is something that is beyond my understanding.
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Old 2nd July 2019, 06:40 AM   #539
whoanellie
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Originally Posted by Vixen View Post
Oh dear. At a murder scene, the scene needs to be kept as unchanged as possible. IOW in this case when Mignini arrived, Stefanoni was there heading up the forensics team. Mignini had to think on his feet as to what was more important: capturing DNA or getting the body temperature. He came down on the side of getting the DNA. By that time anyway, Meredith had been dead over twelve hours so an estimate of TOD would not have been exact anyway. We know already the time of death fell within a two-hour time frame. Closely connected to Knox and Sollecito switching off their phones.
IF this is accurate, that Mignini thought taking the body temp would preclude or interfere or hinder DNA collection, then it's more like he was thinking with his feet.
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Old 2nd July 2019, 07:16 AM   #540
Numbers
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Originally Posted by TomG View Post
Does the word "exonerate" even have a definition in Italian law?

Hoots
That's a good question. But a better one is, does the word "exonerate" have a legal (rather than colloquial) definition in US, UK, or other Western democracy different from "acquit" or "dismissal of charges"?

Here are some legal definitions:

The following is from https://thelawdictionary.org searches on the specific terms; these reflect UK usage and may differ from US usage:

EXONERATE

To lift, remove the stain of being called out for blame, liability, or punishment. It is more that just freeing an accused person of the responsibility for a criminal or otherwise illegal or wrongful act. It is publicly stating that this accused should never have been accused in the first place. Refer to acquit and exculpate.

ACQUIT

When a person accused of a crime is legally freed by a court generally as a result of lack of evidence. This decision cannot generally be appealed unless in a special circumstance. Refer to exculpate [and] exonerate.

EXCULPATE

Removing blame or accusation from a person. Typically for a non-criminal act, like a traffic accident. There is nothing illegal or immoral or criminal in this action. Contrast and refer to acquit and to exonerate.

The following are from https://definitions.uslegal.com searches on the specific term.

Exoneration Law and Legal Definition

Exoneration refers to a court order that discharges a person from liability. In criminal context the term exonerate refers to a state where a person convicted of a crime is later proved to be innocent. .... The term exoneration is also referred in the context of surety bail bonds. In this case, a judge may order a bond exonerated, in such cases the clerk of the court time, stamps the original bail bond power and indicates exonerated as the judicial order.

Acquittal Law and Legal Definition

Acquit means to find a defendant in a criminal case not guilty. The decision to exonerate the defendant may be made either by a jury or a judge after trial. A prosecutor must prove the defendant's guilt beyond a reasonable doubt. A decision to acquit means that the judge or jury had a reasonable doubt as to the defendant's guilt. It may be based on exculpatory evidence or a lack of evidence to prove guilt.

Because of the constitutional prohibition against double jeopardy, once a defendant has been acquitted, he or she cannot be retried for the same matter. In some instances, a person acquitted of a crime may have arrest records expunged.

Exculpate Law and Legal Definition

The term exculpate means to clear of guilt or blame. When a person is pronounced not guilty of criminal charges the person is said to be exculpated. To exculpate means to free from accusation or blame for a blameworthy act. Exculpation does not imply the act was criminal or otherwise illegal or illicit. The term exculpate is employed in sense of excuse of justification.

_____

Now, in Italian law, as far as I can ascertain, there is no use of the term "exonerate" in the sense the it is used in the US or (I think) in the UK, meaning (in one of its senses) "to find someone innocent (not guilty) after a previous conviction for the same criminal act". The equivalent of "exonerate" in Italian, according to Google translate, is "scagionare" and also "esonerare" (first meaning "exempt") or "discolpare" (first meaning "exculpate"). But the relevant legal term used in the Italian Code of Criminal Procedure (Codice di Procedura Penale, CPP) appears to be "assoluzione" (meaning, "acquittal") as in "Sentenza di assoluzione", meaning "Judgment of acquittal", the title of CPP Article 530.

More generally, the CPP uses the term "proscioglimento", meaning "dismissal [of an accused from a court case]" as in "Sentenza di proscioglimento" (meaning, Judgment of Dismissal), the title of the CPP Section including CPP Articles 529 through 532. However, according to Collins Reverso, "proscioglimento" can also mean "acquittal" or "exonerate".

In the context of Italian law as written out in the CPP, the term "proscioglimento" is used more generally to include dismissals for any of the following: 1) the prosecution should never have begun or been continued (CPP Article 529); 2) the accused is not guilty beyond a reasonable doubt, attributable to one of several specifics, such as the accused did not commit the crime (Article 530); or 3) the trial is taking place after the expiration of the statute of limitations (Article 531). {Article 532 directs how the judge orders the release from detention of the accused who has been dismissed by one of the articles 529 - 531.}

One must consider the differences in how Italian criminal law and trials are structured compared to US or UK law and trials (at least prior to the introduction in the UK of cases where a not guilty verdict may be overturned in exceptional cases). In the US and formerly in the UK, a verdict of "not guilty" could not be overturned nor appealed by the prosecution. In contrast, Italy uses a legal and judicial system where any verdict, including dismissals of any form (with perhaps one exception for certain pretrial dismissals) and even guilty verdicts, may be appealed by the prosecutor within a set time limit, except verdicts of the Supreme Court of Cassation cannot be appealed.

Thus, it is routine in Italy for accused persons to be acquitted by a lower court yet to be convicted by a higher court, or to be convicted by a lower court and acquitted by a higher court. In Italy, all the trials are considered legally as one whole proceeding, until the final verdict. Thus, the word "exonerate" as used in the US, where it is constitutionally impossible for an acquitted person to be retried in the same jurisdiction for the same crime, and relatively rare for an accused person to be found guilty to be then acquitted by a higher court, is apparently not especially relevant.

Last edited by Numbers; 2nd July 2019 at 07:20 AM.
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Old 2nd July 2019, 07:46 AM   #541
Bill Williams
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Originally Posted by Vixen
IOW in this case when Mignini arrived, Stefanoni was there heading up the forensics team.*Mignini had to think on his feet as to what was more important: capturing DNA or getting the body temperature.*He came down on the side of getting the DNA.*
Originally Posted by whoanellie View Post
IF this is accurate, that Mignini thought taking the body temp would preclude or interfere or hinder DNA collection, then it's more like he was thinking with his feet.
What is truly amazing, something to be praised and congratulated for, is that Vixen has access to Mignini's investigative thoughts as they occur.

How can we compete with that!?

What we're limited to, is reading testimony. The cop in charge that day was Napoleoni, who testified that the forensic medical team (8 people, is my memory of what N. had testified to) went into the murder room to tend to the deceased....

... none of the 8 wore anti contamination clothing/booties.

Yup. We can trust that the cops/PM/forensic medical team knew what they were doing.

Some in this thread think Mignini had lied about Lalli to foment a conspiracy. It was more likely to cover rank incompetence.
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Old 2nd July 2019, 08:47 AM   #542
Numbers
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Originally Posted by Numbers View Post
That's a good question. But a better one is, does the word "exonerate" have a legal (rather than colloquial) definition in US, UK, or other Western democracy different from "acquit" or "dismissal of charges"?

Here are some legal definitions:

The following is from https://thelawdictionary.org searches on the specific terms; these reflect UK usage and may differ from US usage:

EXONERATE

To lift, remove the stain of being called out for blame, liability, or punishment. It is more that just freeing an accused person of the responsibility for a criminal or otherwise illegal or wrongful act. It is publicly stating that this accused should never have been accused in the first place. Refer to acquit and exculpate.

ACQUIT

When a person accused of a crime is legally freed by a court generally as a result of lack of evidence. This decision cannot generally be appealed unless in a special circumstance. Refer to exculpate [and] exonerate.

EXCULPATE

Removing blame or accusation from a person. Typically for a non-criminal act, like a traffic accident. There is nothing illegal or immoral or criminal in this action. Contrast and refer to acquit and to exonerate.

The following are from https://definitions.uslegal.com searches on the specific term.

Exoneration Law and Legal Definition

Exoneration refers to a court order that discharges a person from liability. In criminal context the term exonerate refers to a state where a person convicted of a crime is later proved to be innocent. .... The term exoneration is also referred in the context of surety bail bonds. In this case, a judge may order a bond exonerated, in such cases the clerk of the court time, stamps the original bail bond power and indicates exonerated as the judicial order.

Acquittal Law and Legal Definition

Acquit means to find a defendant in a criminal case not guilty. The decision to exonerate the defendant may be made either by a jury or a judge after trial. A prosecutor must prove the defendant's guilt beyond a reasonable doubt. A decision to acquit means that the judge or jury had a reasonable doubt as to the defendant's guilt. It may be based on exculpatory evidence or a lack of evidence to prove guilt.

Because of the constitutional prohibition against double jeopardy, once a defendant has been acquitted, he or she cannot be retried for the same matter. In some instances, a person acquitted of a crime may have arrest records expunged.

Exculpate Law and Legal Definition

The term exculpate means to clear of guilt or blame. When a person is pronounced not guilty of criminal charges the person is said to be exculpated. To exculpate means to free from accusation or blame for a blameworthy act. Exculpation does not imply the act was criminal or otherwise illegal or illicit. The term exculpate is employed in sense of excuse of justification.

_____

Now, in Italian law, as far as I can ascertain, there is no use of the term "exonerate" in the sense the it is used in the US or (I think) in the UK, meaning (in one of its senses) "to find someone innocent (not guilty) after a previous conviction for the same criminal act". The equivalent of "exonerate" in Italian, according to Google translate, is "scagionare" and also "esonerare" (first meaning "exempt") or "discolpare" (first meaning "exculpate"). But the relevant legal term used in the Italian Code of Criminal Procedure (Codice di Procedura Penale, CPP) appears to be "assoluzione" (meaning, "acquittal") as in "Sentenza di assoluzione", meaning "Judgment of acquittal", the title of CPP Article 530.

More generally, the CPP uses the term "proscioglimento", meaning "dismissal [of an accused from a court case]" as in "Sentenza di proscioglimento" (meaning, Judgment of Dismissal), the title of the CPP Section including CPP Articles 529 through 532. However, according to Collins Reverso, "proscioglimento" can also mean "acquittal" or "exonerate".

In the context of Italian law as written out in the CPP, the term "proscioglimento" is used more generally to include dismissals for any of the following: 1) the prosecution should never have begun or been continued (CPP Article 529); 2) the accused is not guilty beyond a reasonable doubt, attributable to one of several specifics, such as the accused did not commit the crime (Article 530); or 3) the trial is taking place after the expiration of the statute of limitations (Article 531). {Article 532 directs how the judge orders the release from detention of the accused who has been dismissed by one of the articles 529 - 531.}

One must consider the differences in how Italian criminal law and trials are structured compared to US or UK law and trials (at least prior to the introduction in the UK of cases where a not guilty verdict may be overturned in exceptional cases). In the US and formerly in the UK, a verdict of "not guilty" could not be overturned nor appealed by the prosecution. In contrast, Italy uses a legal and judicial system where any verdict, including dismissals of any form (with perhaps one exception for certain pretrial dismissals) and even guilty verdicts, may be appealed by the prosecutor within a set time limit, except verdicts of the Supreme Court of Cassation cannot be appealed.

Thus, it is routine in Italy for accused persons to be acquitted by a lower court yet to be convicted by a higher court, or to be convicted by a lower court and acquitted by a higher court. In Italy, all the trials are considered legally as one whole proceeding, until the final verdict. Thus, the word "exonerate" as used in the US, where it is constitutionally impossible for an acquitted person to be retried in the same jurisdiction for the same crime, and relatively rare for an accused person to be found guilty to be then acquitted by a higher court, is apparently not especially relevant.
To the above, I should add that in Italy after a final conviction, a convicted person may be able to have that conviction overturned by a revision procedure. The revision procedure may be requested only under allegations by the convicted person, or by a prosecutor, or both, that there is evidence of a miscarriage of justice under Italian law, including international law (final judgment of the ECHR). The kinds of alleged miscarriages of justice or evidence needed in order to make a valid request for revision are listed in CPP Article 630 and Italian Constitutional Court decision 113 of 2011.

It is perhaps this Italian revision procedure, when it results in a dismissal or acquittal (which must meet the requirements of one of the following: CPP Article 529, 530, or 531) that comes closest to the US concept of "exoneration" in that it overturns a final, rather than a provisional, conviction.

Thus, if Amanda Knox's final conviction for calunnia is overturned by a revision procedure, that would be closest to the US meaning of exoneration.

On the other hand, her final and definitive acquittal for the murder/rape charges, while overturning a provisional conviction by the Nencini Court of Appeal, while meeting the appearance of a US exoneration, is more a routine Italian exercise of the Italian Supreme Court of Cassation correcting a provisional court verdict of conviction.
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Old 2nd July 2019, 10:34 AM   #543
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Come on, guys! Don't take away the PGP's last desperate claim! After all, they know that Marasca really wanted to confirm the conviction but, sadly, just didn't have quite enough evidence.
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Old 2nd July 2019, 10:59 AM   #544
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Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
Wait a minute. I thought Amanda was setting up Guede to take the fall when she pointed out his crap in the toilet and his bloody footprint on the bathmat to the police? Add to that her leaving his visible bloody shoe prints in the hallway and his bloody palm print under Meredith's body. Oh, and don't forget the 'staged' break in that perfectly mimicked his break in of the lawyers' office.

"Thou shalt be consistent when pulling crap out of one's nether regions."
Der. Pointing at Guede without landing herself in it.
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Old 2nd July 2019, 11:04 AM   #545
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Originally Posted by TruthCalls View Post
I realize you're trying to defend Mignini but please explain to me how obtaining body temperature put capturing DNA at risk? A small incision in the abdomen to insert a thermometer into the liver has zero chance of destroying potential DNA evidence. Hell, Meredith was face up so she didn't even need to be rolled over. Obtaining body temperature is standard procedures performed millions of times at crime scenes the world over. What was it about THIS crime scene that justified deviating from standard procedures?

Trying to suggest to much time had already passed does not in any way diminish the massive incompetence exhibited by waiting over nine hours after arriving to take body temperature. Had Lalli been allowed to take her temperature when he arrived, it would have been within 18 hours of her death, which would result in a much more accurate estimate than one based on a temperature taken within 27 hours of her death. This is indefensible.

Funny how you claim that even if Lalli had taken her temperature as soon as he arrived it wouldn't lead to a very accurate estimate, and then in the same breath you suggest "we know" TOD within a two-hour time frame, even though body temperature was taken more than nine hours after he arrived. So which is it... would a much earlier test have resulted in a much more accurate estimate or, if not, how was TOD estimated within a two hour window when they waited over nine hours to take her temp?
I can't help wondering if liver temperature is a more modern way (it's mentioned in a Yrsa crime novel I'm reading) but then, in 2007, rectal temperature was standard. In DD it is mentioned that Mignini was loath to move the body until the forensics had been gathered. Stefanoni and her team were already there so it made sense for them to continue.

Quote:
The most common way of taking the temperature of the deceased is to use a rectal thermometer or to take a temperature reading from the liver, which can achieve a more realistic core body temperature.
http://www.exploreforensics.co.uk/es...-of-death.html
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Old 2nd July 2019, 11:07 AM   #546
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Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
Come on, guys! Don't take away the PGP's last desperate claim! After all, they know that Marasca really wanted to confirm the conviction but, sadly, just didn't have quite enough evidence.
That's the trouble with these corrupt judges, it is that they have no spine. Despite "knowing" that the pair were guilty, Marasca was weak when it came to assessing evidence, esp. when the assembled facts **still** didn't convict the pair.

It's as if Marasca should have done what all the guilter-nutters used to do - determine someone's guilt from a picture. **THEN** shift through factoids to buttress the bias.
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Old 2nd July 2019, 11:09 AM   #547
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Originally Posted by Bill Williams View Post
So you admit that Knox was a suspect well, well before the Nov 5/6 interrogation.

You then must be relieved that the ECHR just recently said that this suspect, Knox, had had her rights violated when not provided with a lawyer or a competent translator.
You don't understand the difference between the vernacular use of language and the legal. One means anything you want whereas Suspect(= arguido) has a very specific legal meaning in the Latin countries.

I know it's difficult. Just think of fluffy kittens and bunnnywabbits.
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Old 2nd July 2019, 11:12 AM   #548
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Originally Posted by Vixen View Post
In DD it is mentioned that Mignini was loath to move the body until the forensics had been gathered. Stefanoni and her team were already there so it made sense for them to continue.
There's your problem. Darkness Descending is junk. Soon you'll be quoting Nick van der Leek....

.... except you won't because after proofreading for him, you know that he's even more wacko than DD, because even Peter Quennell thinks that!!!
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Old 2nd July 2019, 11:12 AM   #549
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Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
More idiocy from Roberta Glass's FB page

https://www.facebook.com/roberta.glass.35
You didn't know Knox' blood in the bathroom dominated Meredith's in places?
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Old 2nd July 2019, 11:15 AM   #550
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Originally Posted by Bill Williams View Post
So - her views are enough to balance off the combined views of Steve Moore, Mark Godsey, Saul Kassim, John Douglas, Judge Heavey, Dr. Peter Gill...... etc.?

She is skookum if you ask me.
ROFLMAOLOL You do sit-down comedy really well.
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Old 2nd July 2019, 11:16 AM   #551
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Originally Posted by Vixen View Post
You don't understand the difference between the vernacular use of language and the legal. One means anything you want whereas Suspect(= arguido) has a very specific legal meaning in the Latin countries.

I know it's difficult. Just think of fluffy kittens and bunnnywabbits.
Very witty.

All except you lay out what you believe are legitimate reasons for Mignini to have suspected someone of a crime, you ignore that 3 1/2 days later Ficara brings this person into an **interrogation room**, and suddenly you deny they are a suspect.

It's got nothing to do with colloquialisms. It's got everything to do with how the cops **behave** based on that belief.
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Old 2nd July 2019, 11:24 AM   #552
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Originally Posted by Bill Williams View Post
Very witty.

All except you lay out what you believe are legitimate reasons for Mignini to have suspected someone of a crime, you ignore that 3 1/2 days later Ficara brings this person into an **interrogation room**, and suddenly you deny they are a suspect.

It's got nothing to do with colloquialisms. It's got everything to do with how the cops **behave** based on that belief.
The police did everything by the book.

If you prefer to believe a convicted liar, that is your prerogative.
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Old 2nd July 2019, 11:29 AM   #553
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Originally Posted by Vixen View Post
The police did everything by the book.
Well I mean, obviously not by the ECHR book haha
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Old 2nd July 2019, 11:36 AM   #554
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Originally Posted by bagels View Post
Well I mean, obviously not by the ECHR book haha
The ECHR referred to Boninsegna. It was under the impression that Knox was 'under a criminal charge' as of the time complained of, remembering the interview was immediately terminated when she named Patrick.

What criminal charge was she under?

Perhaps they referred to Bill Williams for their definition of 'suspect'.
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Old 2nd July 2019, 11:38 AM   #555
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Originally Posted by Vixen View Post
The police did everything by the book.

If you prefer to believe a convicted liar, that is your prerogative.
I believe the ECHR. And.....

.... the police did not do everything by the book. Where did you come up with that?

They didn't test a presumptive semen stain located under the victim's hips. They did not take body temperature. That's for starters.
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Old 2nd July 2019, 11:40 AM   #556
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Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
She's just another self-styled crime "expert" who has a podcast which only exposes her ignorance. She's another one of those "they're ALL guilty" people.
I am glad you are not pestering me to say Roberta Glass is wrong.
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Old 2nd July 2019, 12:37 PM   #557
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Originally Posted by Vixen View Post
I am glad you are not pestering me to say Roberta Glass is wrong.

Why would anyone need you to say it? It's self-evident that the woman is a whacko conspiracy theorist with a level of intellect that is way below her own opinion of that intellect.
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Old 2nd July 2019, 12:40 PM   #558
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Originally Posted by Vixen View Post
The ECHR referred to Boninsegna. It was under the impression that Knox was 'under a criminal charge' as of the time complained of, remembering the interview was immediately terminated when she named Patrick.

What criminal charge was she under?

Perhaps they referred to Bill Williams for their definition of 'suspect'.


No, Vixen. The ECHR looked at the entire set of evidence. I appreciate this latest attempt at misdirection though!

And it's extremely instructive that you think someone has to be "under a criminal charge" for them to be considered a suspect. Ignorance indeed. But not at all unexpected.

Lastly, the ECHR used Italy's own definition of suspect in formulating their judgement. You really ought to read it some time, rather than spouting off mendacious nonsense. It might help with the old "credibility" thing. Just a suggestion.
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Old 2nd July 2019, 12:41 PM   #559
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Originally Posted by Vixen View Post
The police did everything by the book.

This sentence genuinely, honestly, made me laugh out loud

(Hint: read the Marasca and ECHR judgements carefully, and repeatedly if necessary......)
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Old 2nd July 2019, 12:54 PM   #560
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Originally Posted by Vixen View Post
The ECHR referred to Boninsegna. It was under the impression that Knox was 'under a criminal charge' as of the time complained of, remembering the interview was immediately terminated when she named Patrick.

What criminal charge was she under?

Perhaps they referred to Bill Williams for their definition of 'suspect'.
This is not true on two counts. First, by Mignini's own 2010 accounting of the interrogation, he himself continued after "the naming of Lumumba". He even said that he, himself, would conduct the interrogation from that point onwards acting "as if only a notary".

Why you think you can get away with these factoids of yours is beyond me. Oh yes, the second count is that both before and after the Lumumba SMS was cited, both were **interrogations** against someone they eventually claimed they **knew** was a suspect.....

..... which, acc. to the cops' narrative, she eventually "confirmed" when she "buckled" and told them what they already knew!

Your theories are not even sustained by the cops or Mignini!
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