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Tags !MOD BOX WARNING! , 2020 elections , democratic party , presidential candidates

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Old 16th August 2019, 06:50 AM   #441
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Originally Posted by Childlike Empress View Post
Follow-up by Caitlin: Former MSNBC Reporter Spills Details On Pro-Establishment Bias In Media




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I AGREE

I agree with her completely that the utterly corrupt state of media is the biggest problem of our democracies today and I don't think Trump is far off when he calls them the enemy of the people.
Yes we should do like Russia and abolish all large independent media outlets and turn them into pure government propaganda outlets. That would no doubt improve things. Every day would be Greatest Leader day.
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Old 16th August 2019, 07:06 AM   #442
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btw shout-out to the Ball parents - Naming their daughter Krystal points into the direction of why she developed such class.
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Old 16th August 2019, 07:06 AM   #443
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Originally Posted by Childlike Empress View Post
I agree with her completely
Knock me over with a feather!
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Old 16th August 2019, 07:07 AM   #444
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Originally Posted by Arcade22 View Post
Russia

Dude - can you stop it? It's beyond laughable at this point.
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Old 16th August 2019, 07:10 AM   #445
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Originally Posted by Childlike Empress View Post
Dude - can you stop it? It's beyond laughable at this point.
You? Asking others to stop bringing up Russian propaganda?

You're nothing but a caricature of yourself, now.
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Old 16th August 2019, 09:38 AM   #446
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Late to the party, but regarding farm states going blue, the state with the largest agricultural production is California. Probably not what was meant by "farm state", but still.
I wonder if ANY state still has agriculture as its number one industry? Off to Google.

Back on topic, my governor's campaign seems to be going nowhere. Just as well.

ETA: According to this site, ag isn't even in the top four in any state.
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Old 16th August 2019, 09:55 AM   #447
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Originally Posted by Trebuchet View Post
Late to the party, but regarding farm states going blue, the state with the largest agricultural production is California. Probably not what was meant by "farm state", but still.
I wonder if ANY state still has agriculture as its number one industry? Off to Google.

Back on topic, my governor's campaign seems to be going nowhere. Just as well.

ETA: According to this site, ag isn't even in the top four in any state.

I hate to mention it (see above), but Russia, who outlawed GMO, is now number one agricultural supplier to China, which on top of it has blocked all imports of agricultural products from the US a couple of days ago in return to some Trump megalomaniac sanctions.
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Old 16th August 2019, 09:57 AM   #448
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Originally Posted by Childlike Empress View Post
I hate to mention it (see above), but Russia (snip)
Sure you do.
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Old 16th August 2019, 07:18 PM   #449
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Trump has more or less lost Michigan and Wisconsin. At least with Biden.

https://fivethirtyeight.com/features...-he-should-be/
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Old 18th August 2019, 02:49 AM   #450
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Hey, did anyone see that Sanders had his top campaign people doxxing ordinary citizens again? Nothing hugely alarming about that!
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Old 18th August 2019, 06:10 AM   #451
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Originally Posted by Travis View Post
Hey, did anyone see that Sanders had his top campaign people doxxing ordinary citizens again? Nothing hugely alarming about that!
No. I didn’t see that. Do you have a source?
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Old 18th August 2019, 03:01 PM   #452
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Juan Williams on Fox this morning said a woman can't beat Trump. Guess he missed the day after inauguration protest.
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Old 18th August 2019, 03:19 PM   #453
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Re Sanders' doxxing:

Daily Kos: Bernie Sanders's Media Supporters Defend Doxxing

There's a lot of Twitter discussion on it.
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Old 18th August 2019, 05:44 PM   #454
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
Re Sanders' doxxing:

Daily Kos: Bernie Sanders's Media Supporters Defend Doxxing

There's a lot of Twitter discussion on it.
Trumpian “lots of people are saying”.

That link doesn’t look like the claim that Sanders, personally, arranged for his top campaign people to dox anyone.

I’d prefer to see something more substantial than vague assertions about what people on Twitter are talking about (any moron can say anything on Twitter, and any moron can say anything on Daily Kos as well for that matter).
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"Evolution and Ethics" T.H. Huxley (1893)
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Old 18th August 2019, 06:16 PM   #455
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A twitter user was outed(?) as a shill by other twitter users, but they did not expose anyone's identity(?) causing yet more twitter users to grow outraged and now conspiracy accusations are flying both (all?) directions. Also, something about Noam Chomsky (because why not?).

That's the best I can summarize it so far. I don't know if I'm particularly interested in trying to gain any further understanding of the issue.

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Old 18th August 2019, 07:44 PM   #456
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Originally Posted by angrysoba View Post
Trumpian “lots of people are saying”.

That link doesn’t look like the claim that Sanders, personally, arranged for his top campaign people to dox anyone.

I’d prefer to see something more substantial than vague assertions about what people on Twitter are talking about (any moron can say anything on Twitter, and any moron can say anything on Daily Kos as well for that matter).
Well look it up yourself if you want to defend Sanders. I just posted what I easily found with a quick search.

I didn't bother linking to the half dozen Twitter feeds I scanned through because the comments were all over the place.
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Old 18th August 2019, 08:38 PM   #457
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
Well look it up yourself if you want to defend Sanders. I just posted what I easily found with a quick search.

I didn't bother linking to the half dozen Twitter feeds I scanned through because the comments were all over the place.
What if just, y'know, accurate information not in the form of a bunch of hysterics and innuendo is the goal?

Googling for "Bernie Sanders doxxing" with the time set to within the last week, I run into the link for this very thread we are participating in right now before finding a single link that looks remotely credible (lots of twitter and reddit, the dailykos article, and headlines that trumpet a prejudicial conclusion in the form of a question).
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Old 18th August 2019, 09:25 PM   #458
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Originally Posted by Delphic Oracle View Post
What if just, y'know, accurate information not in the form of a bunch of hysterics and innuendo is the goal?
What if, you know, people didn't pick on me because I posted what I found with a quick search?

I didn't make the claim, Travis did. As for hysterics, angrysoba accused me of supporting Travis' claim, poorly. I didn't support Travis' claim. I just looked for a source he might be using.

Originally Posted by Delphic Oracle View Post
Googling for "Bernie Sanders doxxing" with the time set to within the last week, I run into the link for this very thread we are participating in right now before finding a single link that looks remotely credible (lots of twitter and reddit, the dailykos article, and headlines that trumpet a prejudicial conclusion in the form of a question).
Goody for you. Post whatever you think is credible, let's all attack you for sharing your search results.

I didn't post the reddit or Twitter links either. I thought the DailyKos at least put context to Travis' claim. People are outing donors.
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Old 19th August 2019, 02:04 AM   #459
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
Well look it up yourself if you want to defend Sanders. I just posted what I easily found with a quick search.

I didn't bother linking to the half dozen Twitter feeds I scanned through because the comments were all over the place.
I’m not interested in defending Sanders so much as getting the person accusing him of ordering a doxxing to substantiate the claim. It looked like you were attempting to do so on Travis’s behalf but having fallen short you are now backing away.
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"Evolution and Ethics" T.H. Huxley (1893)
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Old 19th August 2019, 04:59 AM   #460
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A private citizen, with the handle The Hoarse Whisperer, tweeted about how Sanders is the biggest reason we have Trump as president (true) and MSNBC host Brian Williams read it on the air as an example of backlash Sanders is receiving.



Briahna Joy Gray and David Sirota (who, by the way, continues to push the BS idea that the DNC rigs the primaries) then appealed to their followers to doxx The Hoarse Whisperer so they could ruin his life in retribution for not being part of their cult.
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Old 19th August 2019, 05:21 AM   #461
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But in the same way, Trump is the reason we will have "socialism" (healthcare) in the next few years. The gains by Democrats will make it possible.
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Old 19th August 2019, 05:31 AM   #462
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Originally Posted by Childlike Empress View Post
Follow-up by Caitlin: Former MSNBC Reporter Spills Details On Pro-Establishment Bias In Media




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I AGREE

I agree with her completely that the utterly corrupt state of media is the biggest problem of our democracies today and I don't think Trump is far off when he calls them the enemy of the people.
Sound like the executive was right to review Clinton commentary. The commentator wanted to argue that Clinton was out of step with party and country....and then went on the get substantially more votes than her opponent.

If people are going to say a bunch of stuff full of crap more often with a specific person, higher review could be necessary.
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Old 19th August 2019, 06:40 AM   #463
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Originally Posted by Travis View Post
A private citizen, with the handle The Hoarse Whisperer, tweeted about how Sanders is the biggest reason we have Trump as president (true) and MSNBC host Brian Williams read it on the air as an example of backlash Sanders is receiving.



Briahna Joy Gray and David Sirota (who, by the way, continues to push the BS idea that the DNC rigs the primaries) then appealed to their followers to doxx The Hoarse Whisperer so they could ruin his life in retribution for not being part of their cult.
And Sanders ordered this, right? He said “ruin his life for not being part of my cult!”? Right?

This happened?
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"Evolution and Ethics" T.H. Huxley (1893)
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Old 19th August 2019, 07:06 AM   #464
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More mainstream journos spilling the beans: Mass Media’s Phony Freakout Over Bernie’s WaPo Criticism Is Backfiring

Originally Posted by Caitlin Johnstone
[...] Taibbi is correct. Trust in the mass media continues to plummet, and these stupid, nonsensical hissy fits they throw whenever criticized are only making it worse.

What cracks me up most about all this is that the faux outrage over Sanders’ criticisms of The Washington Post was completely unnecessary for everyone involved. They could have just ignored it and let the news churn bury it, but they’re so insulated in their little echo chambers that they seriously believed they could get the public rallying to their defense on this. The general consensus was something like “Ah ha! Bernie did that media-criticizing thing that we all agreed nobody’s allowed to do anymore! We’ve got him this time, boys!”

And all they accomplished in doing this was giving honest journalists an opportunity to inform the public about the insider tricks of their trade. You may be absolutely certain that the information that has been given to the public by Cohen, Ball, Enjati and Taibbi will remain in high circulation throughout the Sanders campaign in response to the increasingly shrill torrent of establishment smears, breaking the spell of mainstream media trust for all who view it. [...]
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Old 19th August 2019, 07:10 AM   #465
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Originally Posted by BobTheCoward View Post
Sound like the executive was right to review Clinton commentary. The commentator wanted to argue that Clinton was out of step with party and country....and then went on the get substantially more votes than her opponent.
Campaigning for redundant votes in urban centers, instead campaigning for the votes she needed to win the election, seems pretty out of step to me. Ignoring the electoral system, and the actual win condition of the campaign, seems pretty out of of step to me. Did she forget which country she was running for president of?

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Old 19th August 2019, 07:17 AM   #466
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Originally Posted by Travis View Post
A private citizen, with the handle The Hoarse Whisperer, tweeted about how Sanders is the biggest reason we have Trump as president (true) and MSNBC host Brian Williams read it on the air as an example of backlash Sanders is receiving.
So you're saying people shouldn't go online and find the first random comment from any random nobody they can that supports what they've already decided to be outraged about and start screaming about how it means something?

Interesting.
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Old 19th August 2019, 07:23 AM   #467
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Originally Posted by Childlike Empress View Post
What's the matter? No RT article on this?
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Old 19th August 2019, 07:29 AM   #468
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
Campaigning for redundant votes in urban centers, instead campaigning for the votes she needed to win the election, seems pre out of step to me. Ignoring the electoral system, and the actual win condition of the campaign, seems pretty out of of step to me. Did she forget which country she was running for president of?
That sounds counter majoritarian and actually against what is in step with the majority of Americans.

You can't spin away that most Americans supported her for president.
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Old 19th August 2019, 08:45 AM   #469
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Originally Posted by BobTheCoward View Post
That sounds counter majoritarian and actually against what is in step with the majority of Americans.
Simple majority rule was expicitly not ever the objective. Campaigning on the assumption of victory by simple majority is completely out of step with the country, both in principle and in practice.

Quote:
You can't spin away that most Americans supported her for president.
Most voters is not the same as most Americans. Your standard is flawed and your claim is spurious. No amount of spin will help you here.
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Old 19th August 2019, 09:00 AM   #470
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
Most voters is not the same as most Americans. Your standard is flawed and your claim is spurious. No amount of spin will help you here.

And we don't even have to go as far as reminding Bob that most Americans aren't U.S.-Americans.
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Old 19th August 2019, 09:07 AM   #471
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
Simple majority rule was expicitly not ever the objective. Campaigning on the assumption of victory by simple majority is completely out of step with the country, both in principle and in practice.


Most voters is not the same as most Americans. Your standard is flawed and your claim is spurious. No amount of spin will help you here.
We were not discussing out of step with a physical country. It was actual human beings we were talking about. And the actual human beings backed Clinton. She was in step with them.

You can go on fivethirtyeight and toggle popularity between everyone and likely voters. They are within less than a percentage point of each other.
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Old 19th August 2019, 09:12 AM   #472
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Originally Posted by Childlike Empress View Post
And we don't even have to go as far as reminding Bob that most Americans aren't U.S.-Americans. ; )
Hopefully we don't even have to go as far as reminding Bob what natural languages are and how they work. <winky-face!>
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Old 19th August 2019, 09:16 AM   #473
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Originally Posted by BobTheCoward View Post
We were not discussing out of step with a physical country. It was actual human beings we were talking about. And the actual human beings backed Clinton. She was in step with them.
Millions of actual human beings didn't back Clinton. Including the ones who voted against her in key states and cost her the election. She was woefully out of step with exactly that part of the country she needed to win.

Quote:
You can go on fivethirtyeight and toggle popularity between everyone and likely voters. They are within less than a percentage point of each other.
If there's one thing we learned in 2016, it's that political polling is also out of step with the country.
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Old 19th August 2019, 09:22 AM   #474
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
Millions of actual human beings didn't back Clinton. Including the ones who voted against her in key states and cost her the election. She was woefully out of step with exactly that part of the country she needed to win.


If there's one thing we learned in 2016, it's that political polling is also out of step with the country.
2016 confirmed that political polling gets it right.

You are moving the goalposts from the country to part of the country she needed to win. If the person linked had a view aligned with that, it wouldn't have warranted a comment from me.
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Old 19th August 2019, 09:30 AM   #475
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Originally Posted by BobTheCoward View Post
2016 confirmed that political polling gets it right.
In fact the opposite is true. The Clinton 2016 campaign relied on polling to determine not to put any significant effort into getting in step with the parts of the country she needed to win the election.

Quote:
You are moving the goalposts from the country to part of the country she needed to win. If the person linked had a view aligned with that, it wouldn't have warranted a comment from me.
Being out of step with the part of the country that one needs to win a national election counts as being out of step with the country, in my opinion. Elected officials represent the entire electorate, not just the part of the electorate they're "in step" with.

With which they are in step.

Anyway, your "anti-majoritarian" complaint is a red herring. Majority rule was never the intention.
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Old 19th August 2019, 09:52 AM   #476
BobTheCoward
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
In fact the opposite is true. The Clinton 2016 campaign relied on polling to determine not to put any significant effort into getting in step with the parts of the country she needed to win the election.



Being out of step with the part of the country that one needs to win a national election counts as being out of step with the country, in my opinion. Elected officials represent the entire electorate, not just the part of the electorate they're "in step" with.

With which they are in step.

Anyway, your "anti-majoritarian" complaint is a red herring. Majority rule was never the intention.
I interpret the post I was responding to as making a majoritarian argument. Whatever the intention of the system is, I'm responding to the argument being made, not what I wish it to be.

If someone makes the wrong interpretation from polling doesn't mean the polling is wrong.
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Old 19th August 2019, 10:53 AM   #477
theprestige
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Originally Posted by BobTheCoward View Post
I interpret the post I was responding to as making a majoritarian argument. Whatever the intention of the system is, I'm responding to the argument being made, not what I wish it to be.
You lost me. Which post is making a majoritarian argument, in your interpretation?

Quote:
If someone makes the wrong interpretation from polling doesn't mean the polling is wrong.
I have no opinion about that.
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Old 19th August 2019, 11:08 AM   #478
BobTheCoward
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
You lost me. Which post is making a majoritarian argument, in your interpretation?


I have no opinion about that.
Crystal ball's linked by CE.
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Old 19th August 2019, 11:14 AM   #479
theprestige
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Originally Posted by BobTheCoward View Post
Crystal ball's linked by CE.
Ah. That would be the red herring argument I was referring to. I apologize for attributing it to you.
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Old 19th August 2019, 12:12 PM   #480
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Originally Posted by angrysoba View Post
I’m not interested in defending Sanders so much as getting the person accusing him of ordering a doxxing to substantiate the claim. It looked like you were attempting to do so on Travis’s behalf but having fallen short you are now backing away.
Well you were are wrong. And now you make another false claim.

Good grief. I am not and never have been pro-Sanders. I simply didn't want to wait for Travis before finding out what he was on about.
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