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Tags "Making a Murderer" , Brendan Dassey , documentaries , murder cases , Steven Avery , Teresa Halbach , tv shows

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Old 11th April 2017, 08:44 AM   #3561
Samson
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Originally Posted by JREF2010 View Post
thats interesting, I didnt know thats how it works but I have noticed the victims are often surrounded by the state/system/prosecution/police....I think its intentional to get the victims on their side for media purposes too.
One case that really illustrates this is a recent NZ case where
1. The woman leads the police case against a defendant.
2. The defendant has a cast iron alibi.
3. The defendant is acquitted by a jury.
4. The woman immeditely states they are looking for no one else.
5. The father of the victim praises the woman for leading a thoroughly professional investigation.
6. The woman is promoted to district commander.

7. The killers of the original victim are free to kill again.

If you think I am making any part of that up, you would be quite wrong.....

Available on kindle

https://kindle.amazon.com/work/who-k...CEM/B00F7UR9WK
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Old 12th April 2017, 08:54 AM   #3562
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geeez.

if Steve gets out you think the Capital Hill will pass a Avery pt2 Bill?

any guess on who Zellner was referring to when she mentioned people come forward as they always do when the testing starts?...or something like that.

she says someone came forward and I wonder who? a lot of people probably come sending theorys but she ackowledges this one.

Im guessing its the roommate who has something on RH lying.
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Old 14th April 2017, 06:24 AM   #3563
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An enigma wrapped in a mystery.

Or is it the other way round?

Much communication, planting, an original EXECUTION please never forget.
The bullet trajectories speak of this.

Someone shot her from the rear left, she did not expect this. Was she compliant because law enforcement can achieve this?
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Old 14th April 2017, 09:25 PM   #3564
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more than $36 million can be a persons ego, pride, face saving, career and pension, family....

its still hard to imagine AC and Link chopping and burning up a body they found?
or a body they created..... often the blue protect their own, it could be, or was it truly a found car AC called in on the Nov 3 and it was a murder someone else did they wanted to pin on Steve, by chopping and burning and using the barrels to transport to the trailer back yard....

Zellners sure quiet. Something serious this way comes as they say in Harry Potter?
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Old 15th April 2017, 12:35 AM   #3565
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Originally Posted by JREF2010 View Post
more than $36 million can be a persons ego, pride, face saving, career and pension, family....

its still hard to imagine AC and Link chopping and burning up a body they found?
or a body they created..... often the blue protect their own, it could be, or was it truly a found car AC called in on the Nov 3 and it was a murder someone else did they wanted to pin on Steve, by chopping and burning and using the barrels to transport to the trailer back yard....

Zellners sure quiet. Something serious this way comes as they say in Harry Potter?
All ideal.
This murder is the perfect murder.
FOR MANITOWOC LE.

Damn I wish stuff like this would trundle down the road for me when crisis strikes.
Of course we studied coincidence in Dickens. But that was fiction. This baby is all fact.
What are those facts?
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Old 16th April 2017, 03:06 PM   #3566
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I guess theyre keeping edit cutting floor stuff from MAM1 for MAM2.
Nothing new leaking out?

silence before the storm ..as they say in Tornado alley.
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Old 20th April 2017, 08:44 PM   #3567
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not even a ruling release in Chicago.
slow legal systems are fine for those in mansions, waiting in prison another story.
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Old 21st April 2017, 01:42 AM   #3568
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Originally Posted by JREF2010 View Post
not even a ruling release in Chicago.
slow legal systems are fine for those in mansions, waiting in prison another story.
Speaking from the tedious intermediary location....
My reading of prison lterature is that it is dangerous but can be stable.
Steven Avery may be OK, certainly not harrassed.
This is all a catastrophe for human rights of course.

JREF2010:

A universal theme is that no one ever apologises, expresses regret, is called to account.

I was struck once again by the Stephen Kichko case.
If you have the stomach, read this story. You may well know it, but read again for delectation...

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murd...Lesley_Molseed
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Old 22nd April 2017, 05:21 AM   #3569
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no one apologizes, no one is fired, and in Steve Avery case if you sue they frame you for more crimes it seems.

read some reddit (which doesnt even have much new anything) and the phone deleted vm's, the RH lies on the stand..i wonder does anyone have RH DNA? or do they have to follow him around and grab a used straw or cup?
Zellner named two suspects in her opinion, she didnt include STadych and BoD the odd hunter story and lies its seems...

It seems the way Im understanding it Zellener believes RH (or the other guy) killed TH but then Colburn and Lenk chopped her up and burnt her remains then planted that by taking the barrels from the Avery property to the pit, filling the barrels then dumping that on Steves property while they had the place locked down (kind of locked down).

RH sneeking on the property and lying about his name on the list is highly suspicious. The roommate too was part of the search party. No one calling her in as missing for so long, especially RH who said he contacted her all the time.

Something that seems easy to solve is the harrassing/uncomfortable calls TH was receiving. The incoming number would be in her logsheet. Also checking RH phone calls outgoing for the same time would answer that question of "who was calling TH and freaking out on her?" Her coworker asked to help her as he could tell it disturbed her.
It doesnt prove murder but Im curious who it was. RH on the stand made it seem like everything was OK between him and TH. No mention of the disturbing phone calls and no mention of why he was on the Avery property with a fake name and no mention of helping Pam-of-blasphemy find the SUV on the search party.
Did RH own a 22 or gun?

Pete Baetz doesnt get enough time on MaM but hes one of my favorites of the true crime series.

“They must have filmed 50 hours of interviews of just me over the years,” he said. “They cut down my appearances in the film. I guess that’s not a ringing endorsement for my movie career.”

Baetz said one of the problems with Avery’s trial, in his mind, is that the judge prohibited the defense from pointing to other potential suspects.

“That’s just crazy — it’s used in cases all over,” he said. “We had people who we thought looked pretty good.”

In the film, Baetz criticizes the continued involvement of the Manitowoc County Sheriff’s Department in the murder investigation, despite being advised by that county’s district attorney that other police agencies should handle the case.

“Well, the Manitowoc County Sheriff’s Department decided to do it its own way, or at least a couple of people in the department did,” Baetz said.

Baetz argued that the Manitowoc County Sheriff’s Department had a conflict of interest, due to Avery’s lawsuit, which ended up being settled for $450,000 after Avery’s murder arrest.

Also in the film, Baetz questions why no physical evidence or DNA from Halbach was found in Avery’s trailer or garage, except for the keychain and bullet.

“She was shot a number of times. There would be massive pools of blood. It wasn’t there,” Baetz told the interviewers.

He added: “Steven, I don’t believe, is capable of sanitizing that house. Very few evidence technicians would be capable of fully sanitizing an area like that. And they know what to hide and how to hide it. I don’t think Steven could do that.”


I wish he posted on here, Id bet he has a lot of interesting info.
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Old 23rd April 2017, 05:19 PM   #3570
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No, I haven't read every post in this thread, but continue to check it out from time to time. And, I'm curious. Does anyone else other than me believe that Steve Avery is guilty?
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Old 23rd April 2017, 05:29 PM   #3571
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Originally Posted by wasapi View Post
No, I haven't read every post in this thread, but continue to check it out from time to time. And, I'm curious. Does anyone else other than me believe that Steve Avery is guilty?
No; I think he's probably guilty, too.

I just think much of the evidence was questionable and shouldn't have been allowed at trial, and that even if it wasn't the state failed to prove their case because it clearly didn't happen the way they claimed it did.
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Old 23rd April 2017, 06:15 PM   #3572
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I think he's guilty.
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Old 24th April 2017, 05:02 AM   #3573
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Originally Posted by wasapi View Post
No, I haven't read every post in this thread, but continue to check it out from time to time. And, I'm curious. Does anyone else other than me believe that Steve Avery is guilty?
Originally Posted by DragonLady View Post
No; I think he's probably guilty, too.

I just think much of the evidence was questionable and shouldn't have been allowed at trial, and that even if it wasn't the state failed to prove their case because it clearly didn't happen the way they claimed it did.
Originally Posted by marplots View Post
I think he's guilty.
This would be unusual.

Defence lawyers speak out only when their researchers and their work convinces them their clients are innocent.

Jerry Buting states categorically that Steve is innocent.

“We do not and have never claimed that the police killed Teresa Halbach. In that respect, they have that in common with Steven Avery. However, the person or persons who did kill Teresa knew exactly who the police would really want to blame for this crime.”

Kathleen Zellner categorically states he is innocent.

In the local case I am dealing with, all defence attorneys in Mark Lundy state categorically that he is innocent, and know this to be the case.

It is disappointing to me to see scientists like Marplots succumb to these curious hoaxes.
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Old 24th April 2017, 09:47 AM   #3574
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Im watching MAM again.
Chapter 4.

theres a disturbing conversation between Brendan and his mom where he says he "did some of it", not FActbender and Weaslegart....his mom.

about 25minutes into it.

BRendan is mentally a retard. Its frustrating but he was going to school so he was somewhat a mess of a witness and interrogation chump.

but this conversation between him and his mom is disturbing.
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Old 24th April 2017, 12:08 PM   #3575
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Originally Posted by Samson View Post
It is disappointing to me to see scientists like Marplots succumb to these curious hoaxes.
You know the drill. Prove it.

Avery had his chance in court, he's had appeals. So far, he's guilty beyond a reasonable doubt. Ball's in your court now.

I am happy to follow any developments. It's been ten years, any time soon would be good.
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Old 24th April 2017, 12:21 PM   #3576
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Originally Posted by wasapi View Post
No, I haven't read every post in this thread, but continue to check it out from time to time. And, I'm curious. Does anyone else other than me believe that Steve Avery is guilty?
I think it is more likely than not that he is guilty. I think what they did to Brendan is a crime and they should be in prison for that interrogation. I also believe any evidence found while in the presence of Lenk and the other one should be inadmissible, even if it means a guilty man goes free. As a society, we should not tolerate even the appearance of impropriety with law enforcement.
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Old 25th April 2017, 03:45 AM   #3577
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Originally Posted by marplots View Post
You know the drill. Prove it.

Avery had his chance in court, he's had appeals. So far, he's guilty beyond a reasonable doubt. Ball's in your court now.

I am happy to follow any developments. It's been ten years, any time soon would be good.
I am nonplussed by you marplots.
From time to time you appear to be a proper analyst of the world around you, yet here you ignore every post that begins and ends with science.

Why?

This is commonplace, I am seeing it in many of these murder cases.
If you accept that there are prosecutors who have charged people with crimes committed by others, it seems realistic to always start with the assumption that this may be another of those cases.
In the overwhelming majority that fear can be speedily laid to rest, but if that laying to rest is not speedy, the old pattern seems to recurr time and time again.

Certainly here, I would lay down my life in the certainty Steven Avery is innocent.
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Old 25th April 2017, 10:00 AM   #3578
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Quote:
Certainly here, I would lay down my life in the certainty Steven Avery is innocent.
That's a pretty strong statement.

There have been plenty of oddball circumstances for sure. Plenty of questionable actions by those known to have conflicting interests, and plenty of allegations of misconduct.

But at the end of the day, a woman is still dead, and Avery is the last person known to have contact with her. That alone -never mind the blood and the bullet and the key and the bones...would lead me to conclude he is probably guilty.

"Probably" wouldn't be enough for me to vote him "guilty" in court. But the jury saw it differently, and I don't blame them. Now the onus is on his new defense team to show us what they think happened; then maybe I'll change my conclusion.
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Old 25th April 2017, 01:07 PM   #3579
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Originally Posted by Samson View Post
I am nonplussed by you marplots.
From time to time you appear to be a proper analyst of the world around you, yet here you ignore every post that begins and ends with science.

Why?
Appreciate the left-handed compliment, but I think we'd both agree that science isn't about certainty, especially in the venue of historical, one-off events.

Quote:
This is commonplace, I am seeing it in many of these murder cases.
If you accept that there are prosecutors who have charged people with crimes committed by others, it seems realistic to always start with the assumption that this may be another of those cases.
I'm not sure I agree. Is it your contention that the rule holds (assume an error) based on some statistical analysis on the number of innocent convicted or is it, as I suspect, the specifics of this case which sway you?

We probably differ in that I do not go into the matter thinking the system is tainted or corrupt from the start. I don't think this can be assumed without proof. The mere existence of loose ends doesn't help. We do not need to explain everything to arrive at the conclusion Avery did it. But at this point, the onus is definitely on the defense, not the prosecution.

I'd suggest you pare away all the evidence you find doubtful and see what remains. If that is enough to convict, then none of the criticisms help. And frankly, "enough to convict" can be very little. Are you familiar with the case of Scott Peterson? Entirely circumstantial. And that's not even the strongest example of conviction without direct evidence or testimony.

Are you prepared to indict the criminal justice system generally, or only Avery's cause celeb?
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Old 26th April 2017, 08:48 AM   #3580
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OLDIE>...but Goldie... the wording is "confirm" as in completed, done, finished with outcome known.


Experts experiments confirm SA's trial attorneys correct about blood being planted but incorrect about how it was done.-Zellner


the silence is spellbinding. no word on arrest warrants issued for anyone new in TH's murder yet...
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Old 27th April 2017, 01:45 AM   #3581
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Originally Posted by JREF2010 View Post
OLDIE>...but Goldie... the wording is "confirm" as in completed, done, finished with outcome known.


Experts experiments confirm SA's trial attorneys correct about blood being planted but incorrect about how it was done.-Zellner


the silence is spellbinding. no word on arrest warrants issued for anyone new in TH's murder yet...
The placement of the missing apostrophe in this word might be important.
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Old 27th April 2017, 06:18 PM   #3582
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anyone know about Tammy ?
she told the Averys she heard through the gossip line the police planted the SUV.
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Old 28th April 2017, 04:34 AM   #3583
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Originally Posted by marplots View Post
Appreciate the left-handed compliment, but I think we'd both agree that science isn't about certainty, especially in the venue of historical, one-off events.



I'm not sure I agree. Is it your contention that the rule holds (assume an error) based on some statistical analysis on the number of innocent convicted or is it, as I suspect, the specifics of this case which sway you?

We probably differ in that I do not go into the matter thinking the system is tainted or corrupt from the start. I don't think this can be assumed without proof. The mere existence of loose ends doesn't help. We do not need to explain everything to arrive at the conclusion Avery did it. But at this point, the onus is definitely on the defense, not the prosecution.

I'd suggest you pare away all the evidence you find doubtful and see what remains. If that is enough to convict, then none of the criticisms help. And frankly, "enough to convict" can be very little. Are you familiar with the case of Scott Peterson? Entirely circumstantial. And that's not even the strongest example of conviction without direct evidence or testimony.

Are you prepared to indict the criminal justice system generally, or only Avery's cause celeb?
You were the only open minded TA contributor, which I found to be a singular example of scientific thinking.
However, being even open minded on the participation of SA in this murder makes no sense at all.
My best paradigm is the world record domino toppling attempt.
Remove one domino....
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Old 30th April 2017, 05:02 PM   #3584
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Originally Posted by marplots View Post
The placement of the missing apostrophe in this word might be important.
I never thought about it? Actually it was a cut and paste I think on my part.

The word can be pronounced in a way that corresponds with the spelling (common in Belgian-Dutch) or a way that corresponds to the French pronunciation (common in Dutch-Dutch). In the literal pronunciation, the plural is "experten"; in the French pronunciation, it is "experts".


Who knows what the next tweet will be on the street but it's sure silent for now.
The tornadoe sirens will probably be an arrest warrant issued for someone that is obvious to some and not to me.

Im still stuck at RH,ST,BD, AC...the motive could be a ex lover, a rejected lover loser who is awkwardly hanging around too long and too close but not a boyfriend anymore? hmmmm...but I still dont like the Hunting Story and false testimony about selling the 22 rifle and watching the flames get higher and smiling in glee. The bad-apples still had a lot of Sandra Morris hate left in them to the tune of $36mill and even Perry Mason the TV lawyer would say thats a lot of motive.
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Old 30th April 2017, 05:12 PM   #3585
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Originally Posted by Samson View Post
You were the only open minded TA contributor, which I found to be a singular example of scientific thinking.
However, being even open minded on the participation of SA in this murder makes no sense at all.
My best paradigm is the world record domino toppling attempt.
Remove one domino....
On the behind the scenes front, SCOTUS heard arguments this past week on whether to allow habeus corpus objections under the "ineffective assistance of council" rule for appeals instead of just original trials. The possible connection to this case is if Zellner intends to push an issue normally considered closed after an appeal - such as problems with material raised on appeal by previous lawyers.

Anyhow, the issue is interesting and no one yet knows how SCOTUS will rule on the matter.

Here's the link if you want to listen/read the oral arguments: https://www.oyez.org/cases/2016/16-6219
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Old 1st May 2017, 03:05 AM   #3586
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Originally Posted by marplots View Post
On the behind the scenes front, SCOTUS heard arguments this past week on whether to allow habeus corpus objections under the "ineffective assistance of council" rule for appeals instead of just original trials. The possible connection to this case is if Zellner intends to push an issue normally considered closed after an appeal - such as problems with material raised on appeal by previous lawyers.

Anyhow, the issue is interesting and no one yet knows how SCOTUS will rule on the matter.

Here's the link if you want to listen/read the oral arguments: https://www.oyez.org/cases/2016/16-6219
Jerome Buting and Dean Strang have declared a complete willingness for their performance as defence counsel to be shredded by Zellner.

Buting was a trailblazer in his work in 2006, and is a man to be held in the highest esteem.

READ HIS BOOK.

ETA marplots:
Inadequate defence by counsel sends shockwaves.
Careers trump the factual innocence of defendants, I can be extremely precise on this matter in a current New Zealand case.

Last edited by Samson; 1st May 2017 at 04:50 AM.
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Old 1st May 2017, 06:58 AM   #3587
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I don't know how it works in NZ, but here in the US it can be used to "get another bite at the apple" after you've exhausted your appeals.
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Old 1st May 2017, 07:22 AM   #3588
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Originally Posted by Ampulla of Vater View Post
I think it is more likely than not that he is guilty. I think what they did to Brendan is a crime and they should be in prison for that interrogation. I also believe any evidence found while in the presence of Lenk and the other one should be inadmissible, even if it means a guilty man goes free. As a society, we should not tolerate even the appearance of impropriety with law enforcement.
This.
Word for word.
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Old 1st May 2017, 12:11 PM   #3589
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If you remove everything Lenk did (that we know of to date) thats a lot of evidence.
The bullet and key gone.

Leaving the SUV and Bones.
Hmmm no DNA in the trailer of a crime, the garage disappears with nothing too but a dirty floor(not cleaned) and deer blood.

so all trails would lead to the Quarry and the backyard bonfire.....the SUV seemed to be Zellners first to focus on even buying a mock SUV. Then she claims the experts find there is planted evidence. So....if the SUV falls away with the LENK evidence...

a thought is then, using this one scenario, the Bones as an interesting plot to episode 3 MAM2.

barrells and a pit and a quarry and police dogs and a lot of attention to the Randants area.
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Old 5th May 2017, 08:31 PM   #3590
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Would not still be rep. SA if the test results proved his guilt. Winning takes a little longer than losing.- Zellner

sounds like reality....but still not obvious to me.
what the hell happened in this case?


MAM episode 8- MCDS lawsuit increased from $36 million to $360 million lawsuit, and THE AVERY & DASSEY BILL passes by the do nothing politicians?
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Old 6th May 2017, 12:47 AM   #3591
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Originally Posted by JREF2010 View Post
Would not still be rep. SA if the test results proved his guilt. Winning takes a little longer than losing.- Zellner

sounds like reality....but still not obvious to me.
what the hell happened in this case?


MAM episode 8- MCDS lawsuit increased from $36 million to $360 million lawsuit, and THE AVERY & DASSEY BILL passes by the do nothing politicians?
Toss a dart into this thread JREF. http://www.internationalskeptics.com...d.php?t=319258

You know both cases, and I think you can help steer some of these people to adjoining issues.....

But at your discretion obviously.
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Old 6th May 2017, 05:28 AM   #3592
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the discussion of why? on that thread is interesting but hard to put into words.

I can accept Zellner has a mountain of info we dont have...ok. but is it obvious who killed TH?

She named RH ok.
This JRandant, surprised me. in addition to the obvious LENK/COLBURN and their bosses. She did this after having a lot of evidence and data. So this seems like they dont see it as obvious either. Why not name one person?

The "gardner" cops if found out will free Steve, right? that foul play alone should free him but I think Zellner put in the extra homework and might find the actual murderer.

RH- hmmm?
1)access to the phone and admits having the password but then doesnt recall much on the stand about it. (Zellner believed whoever deleted the Voicemails is the killer.)
3) RH was on the search party, which is not unique for murderers to do.
4)Some suspicious contacts with the police and RH wasnt investigated deeply.
5) RH the ex boyfriend who hadnt moved on. How many exBoyfirends stick around 5yrs?
6) RH writing false names in a logbook for a murder crime scene..(who in the hell would do that?)

JR- ??
1) the quarry access
2) lied on the stand about a fire he couldnt see in real life (caught lying)

maybe he was tromping around the loosy-goose crime scene too?

maybe the Colburn / Lenk will tell the whole story after their bosses toss them under the bus.
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Old 6th May 2017, 12:32 PM   #3593
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no selective clean-up of the trailer

On page 238 of Jerry Buting's "Illusion of Justice," he notes a lack of Ms. Halbach's DNA in Mr. Avery's trailer. This next point has probably been noted before, but Avery's DNA was found. "No cleanup operation could have removed hers while leaving his." In other words there is no such thing as a selective clean-up. Students of the Knox/Sollecito case might find this interesting.
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Old 7th May 2017, 04:29 AM   #3594
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no selective cleanup of the garage either...

so true, larger than life or at least the elephant in the rooms....no selective cleanups.

there was one theory TH was shot by a stray hunting bullet but nothing in her SUV shows this data. so apparently she was killed somehow outside the SUV.
theres the cop theory, surely she would pull over and get out of the car for a cop demanding it...who wouldnt? Not sure what the RH murder theory would be? a boyfriend maybe could get her outside the SUV easy enough.

the murder probably didnt happen in the SUV either.
the murder probably didnt happen in the garage.
the murder probably didnt happen in the trailer.
the murder probably happened <enter location>

the Prosecution moved the shooting from the trailer to the garage but still nothing fits with Kratz fiction and bad guessing with poor investigating added.

I dont recall the Defense bringing up the selective cleaning being impossible response in the MAM..not that it would have mattered with Judge Willis sitting there. After all Judgee Willis couldnt even see why the voice mails being deleted after she was dead had any relevance to the case.
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Old 7th May 2017, 03:38 PM   #3595
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Two things.
1) Before the rape-murder Avery had already spent many years in the "school of crime," learning how to commit crimes and get away with them. (Plastic sheeting comes to mind.)
2) The lack of DNA doesn't mean she wasn't there. DNA is selectively collected. It can only ever tell you who was there, never who wasn't. This is commonly referred to as, "The lack of evidence doesn't prove a lack."
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Old 7th May 2017, 03:45 PM   #3596
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It depends.

Originally Posted by marplots View Post
Two things.
1) Before the rape-murder Avery had already spent many years in the "school of crime," learning how to commit crimes and get away with them. (Plastic sheeting comes to mind.)
2) The lack of DNA doesn't mean she wasn't there. DNA is selectively collected. It can only ever tell you who was there, never who wasn't. This is commonly referred to as, "The lack of evidence doesn't prove a lack."
Is the absence of evidence, evidence of absence? It depends on the circumstances. There is no such thing as a selective clean-up, as I noted earlier.
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Old 7th May 2017, 05:31 PM   #3597
marplots
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Originally Posted by Chris_Halkides View Post
Is the absence of evidence, evidence of absence? It depends on the circumstances. There is no such thing as a selective clean-up, as I noted earlier.
Put a plastic sheet down when you do the dirty.
Avery's DNA remains in the trailer in the background. This isn't hard to imagine. No "selective clean-up" needed at all. Or drag her out into the junkyard - I don't know, I'm not a rapist-murderer. Did they check the whole junkyard for DNA?

Your premise of "selective cleanup" implies all the DNA in the trailer was found and tested - I highly doubt that's the case. Are you asserting it is?

You check for DNA where you think it ought to be based on your theory of the crime. While we can say her DNA wasn't found, we can never say it wasn't there to find.

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Old 7th May 2017, 08:07 PM   #3598
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Originally Posted by marplots View Post
Put a plastic sheet down when you do the dirty.
Avery's DNA remains in the trailer in the background. This isn't hard to imagine. No "selective clean-up" needed at all. Or drag her out into the junkyard - I don't know, I'm not a rapist-murderer. Did they check the whole junkyard for DNA?

Your premise of "selective cleanup" implies all the DNA in the trailer was found and tested - I highly doubt that's the case. Are you asserting it is?

You check for DNA where you think it ought to be based on your theory of the crime. While we can say her DNA wasn't found, we can never say it wasn't there to find.
Remember the phone call to Jodi at 5 and the science of cremation when developing your crime theory. Quite a bit to do as well as getting the RaV4 in position a few days later.

The prosecutors never went into this detail so citizen marplots do your duty!
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Old 7th May 2017, 08:15 PM   #3599
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She left no trace at all inside? Not a hair, a fingerprint, a bit of touch DNA? Did he have a plastic sheet spread out when she came in, plus the walls, plus the ceiling? I would think she'd be a little suspicious if she looked in and saw that.

Did she lie down cooperatively on the sheet, or was there a struggle? Struggles tend to pull things awry, tear holes in them, knock over furniture, and cause bruises and scratches. Did the bullet enter her skull and neatly stay there? If not, where did it go? I'm pretty sure a plastic sheet isn't effective at stopping bullets.

Unless Avery is a far more intelligent man than his IQ suggests, I don't see any way this could have happened in his place or even on his property considering the way they combed it looking for trace.
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Old 7th May 2017, 08:37 PM   #3600
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Originally Posted by Samson View Post
Remember the phone call to Jodi at 5 and the science of cremation when developing your crime theory. Quite a bit to do as well as getting the RaV4 in position a few days later.

The prosecutors never went into this detail so citizen marplots do your duty!
I think you may be confusing "beyond a reasonable doubt" with "certainty."

As far as I can tell, Zellner's strategy is to find enough doubt to convince an appellate judge that the case could not be made with whatever evidence is left over. Unanswered questions might do this, but better would be finding material problems with the case - that is, flaws so essential they would change the likely verdict. Even surmounting this hurdle only gets to a new trial, not necessarily an exoneration. For the latter I think you need to find someone else to sit in the guilty chair.
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