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Old 19th April 2017, 06:01 PM   #1
gerdbonk
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Juiced

Quote:
Two investors in Juicero were surprised to learn the startup’s juice packs could be squeezed by hand without using its high-tech machine.
Silicon Valley’s $400 Juicer May Be Feeling the Squeeze

What I like about this article is the very simple video here:

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/video...0-juicer-video

This reminded me of the debunked story about NASA spending millions to developed a pressurized pen for use in space versus the Soviets just using a pencil. Only this time you really don't need the expensive tech.

Some investors, however, look beyond the obvious flaw:

Quote:
Doug Chertok, a Juicero investor, said he figured it out on his own. “There is no doubt the packs can be squeezed without the machine,” he said. “I’m still a huge fan.” Chertok, whose Vast Ventures is also a backer of popular organic restaurant chain Sweetgreen, said Juicero’s approach to delivering cheap organic produce could be valuable. He said the company is a “platform” for a new model of food delivery, where fresh fruits and veggies are delivered regularly to the home. “Juicero is still figuring out its sweet spot,” he said. “I have no doubt that they’ll be very successful.”
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Old 19th April 2017, 07:54 PM   #2
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Translation: "It's a fraud and a rip-off, but I'm desperately trying to protect my investment."
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Old 20th April 2017, 03:43 AM   #3
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$700? Good grief.

I found a juicer online for about a hundredth of that price.

http://www.halfords.com/camping-leis...-rubber-mallet

(other suppliers of juicers are available)
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Old 20th April 2017, 04:01 AM   #4
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Don't underestimate people's willingness to spend money on useless stuff for the sake of novelty or image. The juicer might do just fine.
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Old 20th April 2017, 03:15 PM   #5
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Okay what did the investors think the machine did in the first place?

I get that the whole sale of the machine was the "Keurig of Juice" but... coffee is brewed. It's a process. You start off with a bunch of ground coffee beans and get coffee.

This machine isn't a juicer, the packs already have the juice in them. Not even like condensed juice. It's like if Keurig didn't sell you pods of coffee grounds but just... cups of coffee already made that you had to put into the machine to get. Hell that would have been something because at least you have to heat up coffee.

This machine doesn't make juice (i.e. it's not a juicer you can't dump oranges and kale into the thing), it doesn't add water to condensed juice packs (which would have been stupid but at least been... a thing.), doesn't cool or warm the juice, doesn't filter the juice, doesn't... do anything.

It's a 400-700 dollar complicated pouring spout that has to be connected to the internet... but at what point do anyone get the idea that it was anything else?

WHAT WAS THIS PRODUCT SUPPOSED TO DO IN THEIR HEAD? The investors are all pissed it just takes juice bags and dumps them into a glass for you but... well yeah. What do you think it did?

They took two buzzwords; "Keurig of X" and "Internet of Things" and applied them hipster culture "juice" fetish.
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Old 20th April 2017, 03:26 PM   #6
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Originally Posted by JoeBentley View Post
WHAT WAS THIS PRODUCT SUPPOSED TO DO IN THEIR HEAD? The investors are all pissed it just takes juice bags and dumps them into a glass for you but... well yeah. What do you think it did?
Well, I think what investors thought is "people are just dumb enough to buy this, and look at the markup!"

There is some small benefit of having a connected device, I guess. If there is a kale recall and you have 57 packs of kale juice, the machine can refuse to squeeze them and trigger a refund/replace. Can your hands do that? Or, if you're going through four packs of prune juice a day the machine can automatically schedule an appointment with your proctologist... ?
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Old 20th April 2017, 03:35 PM   #7
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Listen I'm the first to jump onboard the "You'll never go broke underestimating the intelligence of the buying public" train, but you have to underestimate it in a specific way and this one was way too obvious.

Here's what the should have done. Condense the juice. Makes the packs smaller. You put the condensed pack into the machine and add water and get juice. This machine you pouring a glass of juice into it and got a glass of juice except the first glass was just a in pouch.

People might be that stupid but that aren't that oblivious. When you put a 8 ounce propriety "Juice pack" into a machine and get out... 8 ounces of juice. People are going to put 2 and 2 together. The machine needs to perform some function, even a totally pointless one, to make work as a product even in a cynical business sense.
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Old 20th April 2017, 03:47 PM   #8
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Originally Posted by JoeBentley View Post
Listen I'm the first to jump onboard the "You'll never go broke underestimating the intelligence of the buying public" train, but you have to underestimate it in a specific way and this one was way too obvious.

Here's what the should have done. Condense the juice. Makes the packs smaller. You put the condensed pack into the machine and add water and get juice. This machine you pouring a glass of juice into it and got a glass of juice except the first glass was just a in pouch.

People might be that stupid but that aren't that oblivious. When you put a 8 ounce propriety "Juice pack" into a machine and get out... 8 ounces of juice. People are going to put 2 and 2 together. The machine needs to perform some function, even a totally pointless one, to make work as a product even in a cynical business sense.
Isn't that exactly what it does?
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Old 20th April 2017, 03:51 PM   #9
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Originally Posted by JoeBentley View Post
Here's what the should have done. Condense the juice. Makes the packs smaller. You put the condensed pack into the machine and add water and get juice. This machine you pouring a glass of juice into it and got a glass of juice except the first glass was just a in pouch.
I think they could have made the original process work, and might still can. Kitchens are littered with similar silliness - there are plenty of diet/protein "systems" where you dump the packet's contents into the official shaker, add liquid to the fill like, and shake it up. Its nothing you couldn't do with just the packet of stuff and things you already had in your kitchen (a glass and a fork), but wheres the fun in that?

I think what they really got wrong was the price point. They're trying to get rich off the hardware and thats a mistake. That squeezer should be $29.99. The real money is in locking customers into serialized contracts that auto-order new juice packs when the squeezer knows you're running low and need to re-fill the pantry.
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Old 20th April 2017, 04:08 PM   #10
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
Isn't that exactly what it does?
No. You put an 8 ounces of juice in the machine and get 8 ounces of juice out. It does nothing, not even something pointless as far as the food is concerned. This a device that costs 400-700 dollars and takes two minutes to open a packet of juice and pour it into a cup for you.

To compare to a Keurig, which the machine marketed itself as an equivalent to, you put in a little cup of coffee grounds (or cocoa or tea or whatever) and water and a few minutes later get a cup of coffee (or whatever.) What you put in is different from what you get out.

In a traditional juicer you put in fruits or veggies and get juice. In a coffee maker you put in water and coffee grounds and get coffee. Hell even a toaster you put in bread and get toast. Something changes other then the packaging between what you put into it and what you get out of it, even if the process is something you could do easier/cheaper/less complicatedly yourself.

I mean what if I sold you a "toaster" that you had to buy 8 dollar packs of my official artisan organic free trade already toasted bread products (available in white, wheat, rye, and pumpernickel. Bagels and English muffins coming soon. Gluten free options if I hit my Kickstarter stretch goal) that you put into the Toasterino (Patent Pending, All Rights Reserved) and got out... the exact same toast you put into it. How is this machine functionally, hell literally, doing anything different? Again hell I'd the hypothetical Toasterino would have to heat the toast. This thing doesn't even do that.
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Old 20th April 2017, 05:58 PM   #11
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They failed to look at the business model of King C Gillette: Give the razor away and sell the blades. Free/cheap "juicer" and sell the packs.
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Old 20th April 2017, 06:37 PM   #12
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Quote:
Evans, 50, follows a diet of mostly raw, vegan foods. Technology was a new thing for him, but he picked it up quickly. He said he spent about three years building a dozen prototypes before devising Juicero’s patent-pending press. In an interview with technology website Recode, he likened his work to the invention of a mainstream personal computer by Apple’s Jobs. “There are 400 custom parts in here,” Evans told Recode. “There’s a scanner; there’s a microprocessor; there’s a wireless chip, wireless antenna.”
See? It's crammed with custom parts! Are your hands crammed with custom parts? Do you want your juice squeezed by something that isn't crammed with custom parts? Are you a Tech Millennial Vegan or aren't you?!
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Old 20th April 2017, 06:51 PM   #13
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Originally Posted by commandlinegamer View Post
$700? Good grief.

I found a juicer online for about a hundredth of that price.

http://www.halfords.com/camping-leis...-rubber-mallet

(other suppliers of juicers are available)
Doesn't have Bluetooth.
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Old 20th April 2017, 06:53 PM   #14
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That's nothing.

The Toasterino is going to have dual processors, a graphics card, an OLED screen, water cooling, Wi-Fi, Bluetooth, a 3d printer and scanner, a turbocharged V8 Hemi, nanotechnology, a 60w subwoofer, a safe/burst/ full auto selector switch, available iPhone, Android, Windows, Blackberry, and Radio Shack TRS-80 apps, and DLC content.
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Old 20th April 2017, 07:00 PM   #15
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I think I understand the concept. With a regular juicer a person has to go to the store and buy fruit, then peel or core or deseed the fruit, then run it through a juicer, then clean the juicer. The idea here is that a person would get a packet of fresh fruit prepared for juicing delivered to their home and the machine would juice the fruit with a disposable package so there is no cleanup. It would provide a means to create freshly squeezed juice without all the time and inconvenience and mess.

It looks like the problem is that to get it to work they had to chop up the fruit so fine that it was essentially already turned to juice, or at least so fine that the remaining juicing could be done by hand. So instead of selling packages of fruit that the machine could freshly squeeze, they ended up basically just selling bags of juice.

My guess is that they really wanted to create a machine that would take packages of big chunks of fruit and create freshly squeezed juice, but by the time they figured out they couldn’t actually get that to work they were so heavily invested that they put out the “juice dispenser” so that they at least delivered…something.
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Old 20th April 2017, 07:04 PM   #16
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Originally Posted by JoeBentley View Post
That's nothing.

The Toasterino is going to have dual processors, a graphics card, an OLED screen, water cooling, Wi-Fi, Bluetooth, a 3d printer and scanner, a turbocharged V8 Hemi, nanotechnology, a 60w subwoofer, a safe/burst/ full auto selector switch, available iPhone, Android, Windows, Blackberry, and Radio Shack TRS-80 apps, and DLC content.
Wot, no quantum?
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Old 20th April 2017, 07:27 PM   #17
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Originally Posted by DevilsAdvocate View Post
I think I understand the concept. With a regular juicer a person has to go to the store and buy fruit, then peel or core or deseed the fruit, then run it through a juicer, then clean the juicer. The idea here is that a person would get a packet of fresh fruit prepared for juicing delivered to their home and the machine would juice the fruit with a disposable package so there is no cleanup. It would provide a means to create freshly squeezed juice without all the time and inconvenience and mess.

It looks like the problem is that to get it to work they had to chop up the fruit so fine that it was essentially already turned to juice, or at least so fine that the remaining juicing could be done by hand. So instead of selling packages of fruit that the machine could freshly squeeze, they ended up basically just selling bags of juice.

My guess is that they really wanted to create a machine that would take packages of big chunks of fruit and create freshly squeezed juice, but by the time they figured out they couldn’t actually get that to work they were so heavily invested that they put out the “juice dispenser” so that they at least delivered…something.
And all joking aside I'd wager that pretty much was what happened.

I'd bet that the project probably started off, at least way back in the initial idea phase, as something more akin to an actual juicer with the business idea side of it based on selling you these "packs" of cleaned, peeled, and mushed fruit and veggies matter that the machine would pull juice out of a high rate, hence the extreme pressure touted in the device's marketing. But for whatever reason they could never get that part of work right so they to refine it and refine it to the point that the packs were basically glorified hipster Capri Sun pouches removing the point of the machine entirely, but at the point they were too deep in so try to skate by on marketing terms and the sadly growing amount of crowd funding buzzwords hoping that no one would notice that the Emperor has no clothes.
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Old 20th April 2017, 11:42 PM   #18
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Yep. A novel idea. Entrepreneurs with wide-eyed-optimism. They think of all the things they can do. Internet technology! Custom parts! A whole new industry! They come up with their band brand name! They get investors; after all, it is a good idea. Then they put everything into production at once.

They develop all of the affiliated technology. But when it comes to the basic functionality they never did adequate proof-of-concept studies.

Put some chunks of fruit in a bag and apply a bit of pressure and you get a tiny bit of juice. Increasing the pressure gets more juice, but it also gets more expensive and probably noisy. That amount of pressure then starts breaking the bag. So then you increase the bag strength, which is far more sophisticated and expensive

They can get it to work, but it howls like a banshee and shakes like the devil. And they would be looking at a cost of maybe $3,000 for the machine and $30 a pop for a small glass of juice. To resolve that they dice up the fruit a bit finer so that it doesn’t take so much pressure and therefore doesn’t require such a sturdy bag. They keep going that direction until they get to something that works for a reasonable sale price. But to get that point the chunks of fruit have been reduced to essentially juice.

They have developed a bunch of technology. A bunch of marketing strategies. Even a juicer that does what they want, although it would be impractically priced. And a revised machine that is fairly priced…except to get there it ends up really just a juice dispenser.

With all their investors, they have to deliver something. Something that does what they promised. So they release the juice dispenser. It meets the requirements, even if it does so by becoming functionally irrelevant. Throw in some marketing buzz words and hope nobody notices…not really anything else to do.
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Old 21st April 2017, 02:22 AM   #19
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Originally Posted by DevilsAdvocate View Post
Yep. A novel idea. Entrepreneurs with wide-eyed-optimism. They think of all the things they can do. Internet technology! Custom parts! A whole new industry! They come up with their band brand name! They get investors; after all, it is a good idea. Then they put everything into production at once.

They develop all of the affiliated technology. But when it comes to the basic functionality they never did adequate proof-of-concept studies.

Put some chunks of fruit in a bag and apply a bit of pressure and you get a tiny bit of juice. Increasing the pressure gets more juice, but it also gets more expensive and probably noisy. That amount of pressure then starts breaking the bag. So then you increase the bag strength, which is far more sophisticated and expensive

They can get it to work, but it howls like a banshee and shakes like the devil. And they would be looking at a cost of maybe $3,000 for the machine and $30 a pop for a small glass of juice. To resolve that they dice up the fruit a bit finer so that it doesn’t take so much pressure and therefore doesn’t require such a sturdy bag. They keep going that direction until they get to something that works for a reasonable sale price. But to get that point the chunks of fruit have been reduced to essentially juice.

They have developed a bunch of technology. A bunch of marketing strategies. Even a juicer that does what they want, although it would be impractically priced. And a revised machine that is fairly priced…except to get there it ends up really just a juice dispenser.

With all their investors, they have to deliver something. Something that does what they promised. So they release the juice dispenser. It meets the requirements, even if it does so by becoming functionally irrelevant. Throw in some marketing buzz words and hope nobody notices…not really anything else to do.
Sounds very probable given their response:
CEO of company that makes $400 juice appliance has a message for the haters
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Old 21st April 2017, 02:36 AM   #20
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It might be a nice trendy gadget for the slick offices of consultancy/IT/finance/architect firms.
They want to be able to offer their clients a healthy glass of juice, but they can't be seen pouring it from a carton or bottle like a pleb, and they don't want to deal with squeezing juice themselves.
Now thay have a sleek thingy with Apple design sensibilities that dispenses healthy drinks that are delivered to your door like Nespresso cups. The future is now!
Of course they'll get tired of it within a year, but by then the investors will have probably made their money back if there are enough businesses and rich hipsters around.
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Old 21st April 2017, 02:58 AM   #21
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I really need to come up with something pointless but with a scanner a microprocessor a wireless chip and wireless antenna. Ive no idea what it's going to do but it'll be brilliant. Send me money!
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Old 21st April 2017, 08:24 PM   #22
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What kind of ****** idiot would pay $400 for a machine, and $5-$8 a pack, to be able to drink an 8-ounce glass of FREAKING SPINACH JUICE!!! I wouldn't drink FREAKING SPINACH JUICE if it came out of the kitchen tap for free!!! And then, you get to throw away the pulp and the bag, creating a load of waste every time you want to drink a glass of FREAKING SPINACH JUICE!!! While people are starving, stupid self-centered ******** are drinking FREAKING SPINACH JUICE and throwing away food!!!I can go to a supermarket and buy a half-gallon of juice for $2.50, with far less waste, and the best part is, it's not FREAKING SPINACH JUICE!!! I'd rather my wife find me in bed with a hooker than spend $64 per half gallon for FREAKING SPINACH JUICE!!!
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Old 21st April 2017, 09:21 PM   #23
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Meanwhile, here's a much better product: The Lobstero!

Quote:
Hi, I'm Roger Potts. You may not know me as the CEO of Lobstero as I have only been here for a few days. But I've been involved with the company for the last few years as an active investor and board member working closely with Don Lobster, our founder. My career has led me from Red Lobster to Rock Island Lobster Farm over the past nearly 40 years in the food business.

The journey from Lobsterfest to lobster trapping to Lobstero's innovative approach to at-home, on-demand lobsters has let me connect my work to my personal mission and passion: solving some of our nation's lobster challenges. I'm very proud of what my team and I have accomplished in the last ten years, especially in regard to positively shifting the dialogue about our food system and how it can better deliver on the lobster promise the ocean makes when she whispers to us each day. Yes, the lobsters are here, waiting to be inside you.

So when I saw this week's headlines about hacking and hand-squeezing Lobster Packs, I had one overriding thought: "We know hacking consumer products is nothing new. But how can we better demonstrate the incredible value we know our connected system delivers?"
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Old 22nd April 2017, 01:28 AM   #24
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Originally Posted by shemp View Post
What kind of ****** idiot would pay $400 for a machine, and $5-$8 a pack, to be able to drink an 8-ounce glass of FREAKING SPINACH JUICE!!!
I frequently juice my vegetables (including spinach). It's a handy way to get your nutrients when you don't feel like eating healthy.

Of course, a nutri-bullet and fresh vegetables are a lot more economical and sensible than this juicero **** that is being flogged.
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Old 22nd April 2017, 05:46 AM   #25
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Originally Posted by JoeBentley View Post
And all joking aside I'd wager that pretty much was what happened.

I'd bet that the project probably started off, at least way back in the initial idea phase, as something more akin to an actual juicer with the business idea side of it based on selling you these "packs" of cleaned, peeled, and mushed fruit and veggies matter that the machine would pull juice out of a high rate, hence the extreme pressure touted in the device's marketing. But for whatever reason they could never get that part of work right so they to refine it and refine it to the point that the packs were basically glorified hipster Capri Sun pouches removing the point of the machine entirely, but at the point they were too deep in so try to skate by on marketing terms and the sadly growing amount of crowd funding buzzwords hoping that no one would notice that the Emperor has no clothes.
Exactly, it transitioned from being a Juicer, in any sense of the word, to a dispenser of pre-packaged goop. Not worth the $400 asking price and since they're limiting the fruit packs to existing customers only they probably know how quick someone could repurpose a soap dispenser to use them
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Old 22nd April 2017, 07:51 AM   #26
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Here's my veggie juice machine.
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Old 22nd April 2017, 11:04 AM   #27
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Originally Posted by Trebuchet View Post
Blank page; it's not a trebuchet by any chance?
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Old 22nd April 2017, 11:49 AM   #28
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NPR had it on (IIRC) "Ask me another!!" this morning around 11:30-11:45. Much fun in discussion was being had!!!
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Old 22nd April 2017, 01:17 PM   #29
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The "juice loosener" is a far superior device.
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Old 22nd April 2017, 03:13 PM   #30
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Originally Posted by Klimax View Post
Quote:
Dunn accompanied this statement with a video that shows a person cutting open a Juicero pack to reveal a pulp of carrots that, to his credit, is not juice. But it’s also still a pre-made pulp in a proprietary bag that cost $5-$8 and won’t be good after eight days.
Quote:
Dunn says that this allows a busy dad to have juice without cleaning a more traditional juicer and allows an executive to get notifications on her phone if a juice bag is about to expire. “These are just a few examples of the value that the Juicero system offers, and we’re just getting started,” Dunn writes, insisting that Juicero’s investors are committed to helping the company smooth out the "bumps in the road" to getting customers to drink more fresh juice.
Quote:
“Juicero’s mission is to make it dramatically easier and more enjoyable to consume more fresh, raw fruits and vegetables, and that’s a really tough nut to crack,” Dunn wrote.

Why not just sell packages of fresh juice?
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Old 22nd April 2017, 03:17 PM   #31
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Originally Posted by commandlinegamer View Post
Blank page; it's not a trebuchet by any chance?
Works for me, might be USA specific or something. Bottle of V8 juice. I have, of course, seen juice result from a trebuchet.

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Old 22nd April 2017, 03:24 PM   #32
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Originally Posted by gerdbonk View Post
Why not just sell packages of fresh juice?
Yeah I get that the whole thing is a last ditch face saving throw from a sinking project and probably can't be taken at 100% face value but jeez... they make it sound like we haven't discovered the secrets of canned and bottled fruit juices.
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Old 22nd April 2017, 09:31 PM   #33
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Forgot to post another fun bit:
Juice wars: Juicero has sued another juicer maker for patent infringement
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Old 23rd April 2017, 09:08 AM   #34
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Homeopathy should sue the Juicero for stealing its idea of doing nothing.
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Old 24th April 2017, 02:08 PM   #35
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Originally Posted by JoeBentley View Post
That's nothing.

The Toasterino is going to have dual processors, a graphics card, an OLED screen, water cooling, Wi-Fi, Bluetooth, a 3d printer and scanner, a turbocharged V8 Hemi, nanotechnology, a 60w subwoofer, a safe/burst/ full auto selector switch, available iPhone, Android, Windows, Blackberry, and Radio Shack TRS-80 apps, and DLC content.
I'm pretty sure the full auto mode violates federal firearms laws.
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Old 24th April 2017, 02:42 PM   #36
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Originally Posted by CORed View Post
I'm pretty sure the full auto mode violates federal firearms laws.
Does it look like firearm to you?
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Old 24th April 2017, 04:01 PM   #37
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From the thread title I thought O.J. had escaped from prison and "juiced" a couple of innocents.
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Old 24th April 2017, 05:38 PM   #38
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Originally Posted by Klimax View Post
Quote:
Especially the appearance:
The company also says that Juisir copied Juicero’s trade dress, from its “symmetrical, upright” design to the single button on the front of the juicer. Juicero claims it created a “beautiful, optimistic, and playful appearance that was luxurious yet approachable.”
Kind of reminicscent of Apple suing because somebody made a phone that was rectangular with rounded corners.
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Old 25th April 2017, 03:49 AM   #39
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“beautiful, optimistic, and playful appearance that was luxurious yet approachable.”

Just *********** shoot me now and have done with it.
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Old 25th April 2017, 08:27 AM   #40
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The problem with juicing is that it's all carbs, sugar and select vitamins. What you need is a solid juicing ability for the average parent to get their kids a better source of protein in a delicious drinkable form. Try as they might, no one's improved on the Super Bassomatic '76.
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