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Old 21st July 2016, 05:20 AM   #241
ehcks
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Originally Posted by Maartenn100 View Post
No, Dave, that's wrong. Math is just the calculation of the numbers. It's not about the numbers here, it's about the theory which explains the phenomenon.
That phenomenon being based on math, therefore the theory also being based on math, and so the numbers being the most important part.

Even the detection itself is math. All of advanced and theoretical physics is math.
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Old 21st July 2016, 05:20 AM   #242
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By the way stronger field of gravity and weaker field of gravity can be expressed mathematically. It represents an amount of gravity. So, there is your math.
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If the time interval of one second is everywhere the same for you, wherever you are in the universe, and you follow a straight path (in a curved spacetime) to you, your clock and your local idea of a straight path will determine what you will observe as being curved or expanded space outthere.

Last edited by Maartenn100; 21st July 2016 at 05:22 AM.
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Old 21st July 2016, 05:22 AM   #243
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Originally Posted by Maartenn100 View Post
By the way stronger field of gravity and weaker field of gravity can be expressed mathematically. It represents an amount of gravity. So, there is your math.

Where?
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Old 21st July 2016, 05:23 AM   #244
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Originally Posted by Maartenn100 View Post
By the way stronger field of gravity and weaker field of gravity can be expressed mathematically. It represents an amount of gravity. So, there is your math.
Can. Aren't. Therefore no math.
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Old 21st July 2016, 05:26 AM   #245
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Originally Posted by Maartenn100 View Post
By the way stronger field of gravity and weaker field of gravity can be expressed mathematically. It represents an amount of gravity. So, there is your math.

"You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means."
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Old 21st July 2016, 05:27 AM   #246
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My theory says: an observer in a relatively weaker field of gravity (= amount of gravity) will observer a different amount of gR (relativistic gravity) outthere then an observer in a relatively stronger field of gravity. (= amount of gravity)

This is a 'law' or 'principle' which can be expressed mathematically. (in numbers).
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If the time interval of one second is everywhere the same for you, wherever you are in the universe, and you follow a straight path (in a curved spacetime) to you, your clock and your local idea of a straight path will determine what you will observe as being curved or expanded space outthere.
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Old 21st July 2016, 05:27 AM   #247
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Originally Posted by Maartenn100 View Post
My theory says: an observer in a relatively weaker field of gravity (= amount of gravity) will observer a different amount of gR (relativistic gravity) then an observer in a relatively stronger field of gravity. (= amount of gravity)

This is a 'law' or 'principle' which can be expressed mathematically.

Go on then.
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Old 21st July 2016, 05:29 AM   #248
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I don't know the translation in another language (i.c. mathematical language) but it is a mathematical expression in words.

(cfr veda's = math in words)
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If the time interval of one second is everywhere the same for you, wherever you are in the universe, and you follow a straight path (in a curved spacetime) to you, your clock and your local idea of a straight path will determine what you will observe as being curved or expanded space outthere.
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Old 21st July 2016, 05:30 AM   #249
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Originally Posted by Maartenn100 View Post
I don't know the translation in another language (i.c. mathematical language) but it is a mathematical expression in words.

(cfr veda's = math in words)
And what is that mathematical expression?
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Old 21st July 2016, 05:34 AM   #250
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Here is an example of mathematics expressed in words:

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If the time interval of one second is everywhere the same for you, wherever you are in the universe, and you follow a straight path (in a curved spacetime) to you, your clock and your local idea of a straight path will determine what you will observe as being curved or expanded space outthere.
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Old 21st July 2016, 05:42 AM   #251
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In my case, the expression is:

When a field of an observer is stronger then the strengtht of an observed field of gravity (number is higher) (f.e. an observed galaxy), the observed relativistic gravity (gravity is already been mathematically described) will be weaker (amount or number).

When a field of an observer is weaker (number is lower) then the strength of an observed field of gravity, the observed relativistic gravity (already mathematically described) will be stronger (amount or number).

An equally strong field of gravity of an observer will give us the observation of a normal amount of gravity of this other observed galaxy without gR or relativistic gravity.

These are mathematical expressions in words.
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If the time interval of one second is everywhere the same for you, wherever you are in the universe, and you follow a straight path (in a curved spacetime) to you, your clock and your local idea of a straight path will determine what you will observe as being curved or expanded space outthere.

Last edited by Maartenn100; 21st July 2016 at 05:47 AM.
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Old 21st July 2016, 05:50 AM   #252
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Originally Posted by Maartenn100 View Post
Here is an example of mathematics expressed in words:
A table of sorts.
Nope, an example of maths expressed in words would be one plus one equals two.
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Old 21st July 2016, 05:50 AM   #253
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Originally Posted by RussDill View Post
Lemme break this down. The cops think that their suspect is hiding in a certain neighborhood. They kick down the door of one of the houses, and find the suspect isn't there. They release the news that the suspect wasn't in this given house. Maartenn100 then goes on to post about how the cops are wrong and the suspect wasn't in that neighborhood there was no suspect after all. Oh, and that how he must be right.

The experiment only checks for one given energy range, not the whole neighborhood.
FTFY
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Old 21st July 2016, 05:55 AM   #254
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Originally Posted by Maartenn100 View Post
I must honestly say: I can't provide the math.
But it doesn't mean that what I'm trying to say is not worth considering at all.
Why yes, yes it does.
Quote:
It's a theory under construction.
Be free to provide the mathematical bulding blocks.
All you have are your personal uneducated musings to go by.
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Old 21st July 2016, 05:56 AM   #255
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My watch is in one of the drawers in my bedroom.
I looked in the top drawer and it wasn't there.
I guess I didn't have a watch after all.
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Old 21st July 2016, 05:57 AM   #256
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Ah, and in my theory: relativistic gravity (gR) can be negative = expansion of space.
When it's positive, there is an observation curvature of spacetime.

But the condition for gR is the existence of observers or reference frames.
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If the time interval of one second is everywhere the same for you, wherever you are in the universe, and you follow a straight path (in a curved spacetime) to you, your clock and your local idea of a straight path will determine what you will observe as being curved or expanded space outthere.
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Old 21st July 2016, 06:05 AM   #257
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Originally Posted by Maartenn100 View Post
I don't know the translation in another language (i.c. mathematical language) but it is a mathematical expression in words.

(cfr veda's = math in words)
You know how the mathematical operations +, -, /, X, and = all work. You understand exponents (ie. x2).

Even if you are missing a constant or two you can express how one factor is proportional to another (for instance the gravitational attraction between two objects is proportional to the inverse square of the distance between their centers of mass, F~1/r2 )

Go for it.
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Old 21st July 2016, 06:17 AM   #258
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Your theory seems to be whatever you need it to be to fit whatever you are claiming is evidence this week.
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Old 21st July 2016, 06:24 AM   #259
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Insert mandatory Anne Elk joke here.
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Old 21st July 2016, 06:40 AM   #260
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We are no objective observers of the night sky.
We are in a field of gravity, and this fact provides us a frame of reference. It's as a lens, a pair of glasses, and we look through this lens or this pair of glasses into the night sky. And we see all kind of motions, but we do not see our own lens and how this lens determines what we observe.
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If the time interval of one second is everywhere the same for you, wherever you are in the universe, and you follow a straight path (in a curved spacetime) to you, your clock and your local idea of a straight path will determine what you will observe as being curved or expanded space outthere.

Last edited by Maartenn100; 21st July 2016 at 06:52 AM.
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Old 21st July 2016, 06:41 AM   #261
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Originally Posted by fagin View Post
Insert mandatory Anne Elk joke here.


And mandatory Crackpot Index cite.


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Old 21st July 2016, 06:50 AM   #262
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the supernatural status of quantumphysical phenomena

The fact that everything, even you, is 'propabilistic' until being detected is supernatural to me. It cannot be explained with what we know about nature.
Entanglement can't be explained either with the laws of nature as we know it.
Therefore, we can can give quantumphysical phenomena the status of 'supernatural phenomena'. Phenomena which cannot be explained with our best scientific knowledge about nature.
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If the time interval of one second is everywhere the same for you, wherever you are in the universe, and you follow a straight path (in a curved spacetime) to you, your clock and your local idea of a straight path will determine what you will observe as being curved or expanded space outthere.
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Old 21st July 2016, 07:05 AM   #263
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The dark matter/dark energy problem is simply the observation that current scientific theories even though they are very successful and have a large range of
validity do not explain the behaviour of large-scale structures in the Universe, like spinning galaxies. Dark matter is a hypothesis that seeks to rectify
the theory, so it becomes more accurate, or less wrong. Another proposed possible solution is modified newtonian mechanics. So far, none of these efforts
have been successful. But there's nothing wrong with the process of science, in this case. You have theories that work well, but aren't perfect.
And then the scientists try to improve them. To get rid of dark matter etc. you have to present a solution that is superior. One that explains the
discrepancies and makes accurate predictions. Can your theory do that? Then you have a case.
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Old 21st July 2016, 07:05 AM   #264
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If you were here you could squeeze me (in a purely platonic way obviously).

I'm pretty sure I'm not supernatural, just super.
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Old 21st July 2016, 07:27 AM   #265
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Originally Posted by TheAdversary View Post
To get rid of dark matter etc. you have to present a solution that is superior. One that explains the discrepancies and makes accurate predictions. Can your theory do that? Then you have a case.


Ah yes, false dichotomy; the eternal favorite of fringe theorists. Maarten thinks if a theory is disproven, his quarter-baked unevidenced idea must be correct. Except here the theory wasn't even disproven, the experimental results just bound the solution, as other have pointed out.


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Old 21st July 2016, 07:34 AM   #266
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Originally Posted by TheAdversary View Post
To get rid of dark matter etc. you have to present a solution that is superior. One that explains the
discrepancies and makes accurate predictions. Can your theory do that? Then you have a case.
The only way (at this moment) to proof my theory is doing the following experiment:

When you observe the same object (spinning galaxy) from another field of gravity, you observe another amount of dark matter.

That's a verifiable prediction.

Because, according to my theory, the field of gravity of the observer is like a 'lens' through wich you observe an amount of dark matter or an amount of expansion of space. And this lens determines the amount of dark matter/dark energy you observe. It gives you a relativistic observation.
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If the time interval of one second is everywhere the same for you, wherever you are in the universe, and you follow a straight path (in a curved spacetime) to you, your clock and your local idea of a straight path will determine what you will observe as being curved or expanded space outthere.

Last edited by Maartenn100; 21st July 2016 at 07:45 AM.
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Old 21st July 2016, 08:06 AM   #267
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Originally Posted by Maartenn100 View Post
LUX's sensitivity far exceeded the goals for the project, collaboration scientists said, but yielded no trace of dark matter particles. LUX's extreme sensitivity makes the team confident that if dark matter particles had interacted with the LUX's xenon target, the detector would almost certainly have seen it.

Read more at: http://phys.org/news/2016-07-world-s...ector.html#jCp

http://phys.org/news/2016-07-world-s...-detector.html
Hi,
You do know that nutrinos are dark matter?
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Old 21st July 2016, 08:12 AM   #268
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Originally Posted by Maartenn100 View Post
The only way (at this moment) to proof my theory is doing the following experiment:

When you observe the same object (spinning galaxy) from another field of gravity, you observe another amount of dark matter.

That's a verifiable prediction.

Because, according to my theory, the field of gravity of the observer is like a 'lens' through wich you observe an amount of dark matter or an amount of expansion of space. And this lens determines the amount of dark matter/dark energy you observe. It gives you a relativistic observation.
Hi Maartenn,
The issue is that if you look at the approximate mass of the visible matter in a distant galaxy. And then you calculate the way that the stars orbit the center of mass of the galaxy, the speeds of the stars are off by a substantial magnitude.
The stars orbit the center of mass as though there is a substantial amount of unseen matter in a halo around the center of mass.

Any mass effecting you the observer would not have an effect on the orbit of the stars in the distant galaxy to change their speed of roation
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Old 21st July 2016, 08:15 AM   #269
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Ok, possible. But imagine you observe this same spinning galaxy from the event horizon of a black hole. Your clock is going very slow (relative to our clock here on Earth). So your observation of this distant spinning galaxy must be different from our observation on Earth of this same distant spinning galaxy, not? Because you have a totally different time rate passage.
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If the time interval of one second is everywhere the same for you, wherever you are in the universe, and you follow a straight path (in a curved spacetime) to you, your clock and your local idea of a straight path will determine what you will observe as being curved or expanded space outthere.

Last edited by Maartenn100; 21st July 2016 at 08:17 AM.
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Old 21st July 2016, 08:16 AM   #270
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Originally Posted by Maartenn100 View Post
Science must be taken seriously: when the theory is been falsified by the experiment, one has to accept that one was wrong. Don't try to save your theory with fallacies.
And one must also understand that eliminating _some_ candidates for Dark Matter doesn't make the whole concept bunk just yet.
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Old 21st July 2016, 08:18 AM   #271
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Originally Posted by Maartenn100 View Post
Ok, from your perspective, it's as you describe it.

I interprete this as: falsification of dark matter theory.

It's a matter of interpreting the results.
Fortunately, that's not how science works.

Quote:
Quote:
Unless you can provide a superior mathematical description of gravitational effects that doesn't contradict any known evidence, you're not actually saying anything worth listening to.
No, Dave, It's not about the numbers here, it's about the theory which explains the phenomenon.
Those are one and the same. The theory IS the numbers. Damn, do you know anything about science?
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Old 21st July 2016, 08:37 AM   #272
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Originally Posted by Maartenn100 View Post
That's not how science supposed to work, RussDill.
Science has to do the experiment and accept the fact that there hypothesis was wrong.
It's not science when you try to save your theory/hypothesis.
How do you know?
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Old 21st July 2016, 08:39 AM   #273
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Originally Posted by Maartenn100 View Post
No, Dave, It's not about the numbers here, it's about the theory which explains the phenomenon.
Without the maths, you have no theory which explains the phenomenon, just a blind guess which explains nothing.

Dave
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Old 21st July 2016, 08:48 AM   #274
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I'm still waiting for the answer:
imagine you observe this same spinning galaxy from the event horizon of a black hole. Your clock is going very slow (relative to our clock here on Earth). So your observation of this distant spinning galaxy must be different from our observation on Earth of this same distant spinning galaxy, not? Because you have a totally different time rate passage.
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If the time interval of one second is everywhere the same for you, wherever you are in the universe, and you follow a straight path (in a curved spacetime) to you, your clock and your local idea of a straight path will determine what you will observe as being curved or expanded space outthere.
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Old 21st July 2016, 09:32 AM   #275
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Originally Posted by Maartenn100 View Post
The fact that everything, even you, is 'propabilistic' until being detected is supernatural to me. It cannot be explained with what we know about nature.
"What we know about nature" is that at certain scales, from the point of view of an observer it is not possible to predict what outcome will be observed in a single measurement.

Originally Posted by Maartenn100 View Post
Entanglement can't be explained either with the laws of nature as we know it.
Isn't entanglement one of the "laws of nature as we know it"?

Originally Posted by Maartenn100 View Post
Therefore, we can can give quantumphysical phenomena the status of 'supernatural phenomena'. Phenomena which cannot be explained with our best scientific knowledge about nature.
"Our best scientific knowledge about nature" includes quantum mechanics.
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Old 21st July 2016, 10:22 AM   #276
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It all depends on your definition of the concept 'supernatural'.
Einstein called entanglement 'spooky' action at a distance.
The question is: when will a sceptic person call an existing phenomenon 'supernatural'?
Under what conditions will an existing phenomenon get the status of being 'supernatural'?
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If the time interval of one second is everywhere the same for you, wherever you are in the universe, and you follow a straight path (in a curved spacetime) to you, your clock and your local idea of a straight path will determine what you will observe as being curved or expanded space outthere.
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Old 21st July 2016, 11:05 AM   #277
Argumemnon
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Originally Posted by Maartenn100 View Post
The fact that everything, even you, is 'propabilistic' until being detected is supernatural to me. It cannot be explained with what we I know about nature.
Fixed.
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Old 21st July 2016, 11:54 AM   #278
wea
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Originally Posted by Maartenn100 View Post
Under what conditions will an existing phenomenon get the status of being 'supernatural'?
As far as it's reproducible ... hardly.

ETA: I didn't notice the adjective "existing". I'd say no existing phenomenon is 'supernatural'; on the other side, most nonexisting phenomena(?), well ...

Last edited by wea; 21st July 2016 at 12:07 PM.
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Old 21st July 2016, 11:56 AM   #279
Daylightstar
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Originally Posted by Maartenn100 View Post
I'm still waiting for the answer:
...
How interesting, so am I:
Originally Posted by Daylightstar View Post
Hilites by Daylightstar

How do you know that this consciousness exists, Maartenn100?


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Old 21st July 2016, 12:56 PM   #280
Crossbow
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Originally Posted by Maartenn100 View Post
It all depends on your definition of the concept 'supernatural'.
Einstein called entanglement 'spooky' action at a distance.
The question is: when will a sceptic person call an existing phenomenon 'supernatural'?
Under what conditions will an existing phenomenon get the status of being 'supernatural'?
Since all of the phenomenon we know is natural and since there is no objective evidence for any supernatural phenomenon,

therefore there is it quite impossible to determine when a existing phenomenon becomes a supernatural phenomenon.
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