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Old 20th April 2017, 08:41 AM   #3041
Paul Bethke
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Originally Posted by PartSkeptic View Post
Some of your comments are okay with me.

To me God is God - whether Yahweh or the God of Israel. Many religions have a single supreme being, who wants good things for humankind.

I agree that religion is made by man. But inspired by God. They have been improving the basic concepts, and they can still be improved. I do not think we will ever get to perfection. Ultimately mankind will decide outcomes and the future, but God will assist.

God accepts illness, sin and death. Also pain and suffering. It is called life, and it brings out the best in mankind. We strive and learn compassion (some of us anyhow). If our souls do not die, physical trauma is not a problem. As a father, I encouraged my kids to be daring and take some risks. The rewards are confidence and achievement.

You touch on the need to update religion. I agree. The virginity thing was written at a time that girls and women did not ride bicycles or horses, or do gymnastics or other such activities. And people were understanding mostly. The principle is to be faithful and avoid meaningless copulation (leading to STDs in those days). Also to form strong community bonds.

I was told I live under a rock. No - I see things as they are, and as they should be. I do not rationalize the problems of the world.

The many conflicts and poverty and toxins are spreading people and disease. Many medicines rely on our immune systems to work. It they start failing so will modern medicine. There are signs that 2017 is the year, so you will not have to wait long for the beginning of the END! (End of bad things that is ).
I have to emphasise that I accept that Yahweh the God of Israel is the one and only Creator as outlined in the Bible. I cannot accept that there were many gods in the formation of the universe and the creation of life on earth.

There is a lot of protestations to this, but that can only be resolve by repeating the events that are recorded in the Bible. So, to me the END is the beginning of good things, but not so good for the wicked, although they will be given an opportunity to change.

Then those who love justice can rejoice, the world can then be rid of that which destroys, and families can enjoy that which the Creator had planned from the beginning.

The causes of sickness and diseases will be identified and eradicated, and people will enjoy a healthy life—all this is predicted in the prophecies of Scripture.

So there is a lot of good things to look forward to when the Kingdom is established.
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Old 20th April 2017, 08:45 AM   #3042
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Originally Posted by Paul Bethke View Post
The simple answer is that the Creator gave laws and man and woman have ignored them, as a result there is wide scale corruption in the world pertaining to the true obligation of what marriage should be.

If parents do not teach their children the important laws pertaining to marriage then we have what we have.

So when girls are taught the basics of marriage, they will preserve their purity—the same applies to boys. But today immorality is rife, so there is no focus on purity reserved for marriage.

So when the Gospel is proclaimed in its unadulterated sagacity men will become guilty.

The irrelevant blathering you speak of is due to your lack of understanding of logic.. Man is responsible for the corruption in the world, and will always be until the Kingdom is established.
What a load of crap.

If this god of yours was actually so very powerful and wonderful, then this god of yours would actually try to help people instead of destroying them.
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Old 20th April 2017, 10:12 AM   #3043
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Originally Posted by Paul Bethke View Post
I have to emphasise that I accept that Yahweh the God of Israel is the one and only Creator as outlined in the Bible. I cannot accept that there were many gods in the formation of the universe and the creation of life on earth.
You cannot accept it because of what reasons? You've presented no reasons or evidence that we should accept your preferred set of myths over any other set of myths, or over the evidence of the physical sciences.

At this point I personally conclude that you do not accept anything but the Yahwist myths because they are familiar to you and there is a level of comfort in believing that there is a big, benevolent father figure looking out for you and who will punish those you think should be punished.

Quote:
There is a lot of protestations to this, but that can only be resolve by repeating the events that are recorded in the Bible.
Repeating fiction doesn't make it non-fiction. Otherwise, I'm off to the Lonely Mountain with my good friends Harry and Colonel Sharpe to visit the good King Arthur.

Quote:
So, to me the END is the beginning of good things, but not so good for the wicked, although they will be given an opportunity to change.

Then those who love justice can rejoice, the world can then be rid of that which destroys, and families can enjoy that which the Creator had planned from the beginning.
We've been over why Yahweh's rules and actions do not support justice. We can start with the group punishments and then move onto the parts where the victim needs to be punished alongside the guilty. We can then address the parts where Yahweh considers treating more then half the human race as property as acceptable.

Quote:
The causes of sickness and diseases will be identified and eradicated, and people will enjoy a healthy life—all this is predicted in the prophecies of Scripture.
We're doing that now - no need for supernatural intervention.

Quote:
So there is a lot of good things to look forward to when the Kingdom is established.
Slavery, genocide, institutional misogyny, an unfair legal system, a political system best described as a theocratic autocracy.

Yep, sounds great.
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Old 20th April 2017, 03:00 PM   #3044
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Originally Posted by Paul Bethke View Post
I have to emphasise that I accept that Yahweh the God of Israel is the one and only Creator as outlined in the Bible.
And what of the "one and only creator(s) as outlined" in religious texts far older than your bible?
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Old 20th April 2017, 04:52 PM   #3045
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Originally Posted by JayUtah View Post
Accusations of lying in 5..., 4..., 3...

The thread gets kinda boring when Paul lapses into repetitive "Nuh uh! Liar!" responses. It's much more fun when there's some meat on dem dry bones. Perhaps Paul Bethke should read a little bit of Ezekiel for inspiration on how to take dem dry bones and wrap some flesh 'round them so we have something to gnaw on when he posts.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dem_Bones
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Old 20th April 2017, 05:01 PM   #3046
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Originally Posted by Border Reiver View Post
Slavery, genocide, institutional misogyny, an unfair legal system, a political system best described as a theocratic autocracy.



Yep, sounds great.

I'd like to point out every one of those things have been explicitly advocated by Paul in his posts here. He's made it very clear he wants a return to Old Testament barbarism with an Apartheid chaser, but he'd prefer most if not all the blacks be killed.
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Old 20th April 2017, 05:10 PM   #3047
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Originally Posted by halleyscomet View Post
I'd like to point out every one of those things have been explicitly advocated by Paul in his posts here. He's made it very clear he wants a return to Old Testament barbarism with an Apartheid chaser, but he'd prefer most if not all the blacks be killed.
Doesn't that mean that Paul has been violating Rule 12 for years, now? And he's still here? Why/how does he get preferential treatment?

This signature is intended to irritate people.
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Old 20th April 2017, 05:14 PM   #3048
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Originally Posted by Beady View Post
Doesn't that mean that Paul has been violating Rule 12 for years, now? And he's still here? Why/how does he get preferential treatment?

This signature is intended to irritate people.
IIRC, its because TPTB don't consider him a legitimate, realistic threat to anyone...
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Old 20th April 2017, 06:37 PM   #3049
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Originally Posted by Slowvehicle View Post
IIRC, its because TPTB don't consider him a legitimate, realistic threat to anyone...
And I was given a mild reprimand for supplying a noun another post was alluding to. It was not I who shot either the sheriff or the deputy.
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Old 20th April 2017, 10:28 PM   #3050
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Originally Posted by Paul Bethke View Post
I have to emphasise that I accept that Yahweh the God of Israel is the one and only Creator as outlined in the Bible. I cannot accept that there were many gods in the formation of the universe and the creation of life on earth.

(snip)
I agree in one Creator entity.

The same one God of other religions. Different name. For example - Great Spirit.

No reason why that one God could not create lesser spirits to help. Was Jesus one of those?
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Old 20th April 2017, 10:35 PM   #3051
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Originally Posted by Border Reiver View Post
(snip)

Quote:
PB - The causes of sickness and diseases will be identified and eradicated, and people will enjoy a healthy life—all this is predicted in the prophecies of Scripture.
We're doing that now - no need for supernatural intervention.

(snip)

Really? You should start watching documentaries about the real world. Poverty, sickness, misery - on a massive scale. Not to mention the refugees pouring out of the Middle East.

You must be one of the pampered elite.
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Old 20th April 2017, 11:46 PM   #3052
Paul Bethke
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Originally Posted by halleyscomet View Post
I'd like to point out every one of those things have been explicitly advocated by Paul in his posts here. He's made it very clear he wants a return to Old Testament barbarism with an Apartheid chaser, but he'd prefer most if not all the blacks be killed.
What you so incorrectly imply is erroneous in extreme. The Torah is the basis for all peoples, blacks and whites when we use that distinction.

Depending on the response to the Gospel, so will be the judgement.
Jesus made this clear in his statement—(Luke_12:48 But the one who does not know and does things deserving punishment will be beaten with few blows. From everyone who has been given much, much will be demanded; and from the one who has been entrusted with much, much more will be asked.

So it would appear that the whites will be more severely punished than the ignorant blacks.
Everyone who has heard will be held accountable.

The laws in Apartheid are more clearly aligned with the laws of the Creator. The present laws are opposed to the laws of the Creator—so it is very obvious which system is preferred by the Creator.

The Old Testament that you so wrongly call it, is no different to the New Covenant. The distinction is that in the time of the establishment of the nation of Israel there were barbaric people, and they were dealt with as was required.

Apartheid encountered barbarism in the form of black culture, and as such sought to separate the whites from that. Black culture still exists today, so there is still a separation policy in place.

But you have become blind in that virtually every nation today is established on the same principal as Apartheid. The whites who invaded the land of the Indians of America were more barbaric than the Boer who invaded South Africa. Colonization of Africa was accompanied by much barbarism, especially in the Congo.

No Sir you in your lack of knowledge of the situation are blind to the true facts and would rather hold on to error. The Rwanda genocide proves that there is apartheid, where 800k people were slaughtered. There was and still is tribalism in Africa, where apartheid is present. The Catholics and Protestants have a system of apartheid, the Jews and Gentiles still have a classification of apartheid.

Now that Apartheid is supposedly gone there is anarchy in place, corruption, and lawlessness.
No Comet you are horribly mistaken, Apartheid is not barbaric, it is holy.
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Old 21st April 2017, 12:07 AM   #3053
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Originally Posted by PartSkeptic View Post
I agree in one Creator entity.

The same one God of other religions. Different name. For example - Great Spirit.

No reason why that one God could not create lesser spirits to help. Was Jesus one of those?
In my narrow view of the Scriptures, I do not accept the fact that there are other deities. This Creator has revealed himself as the only Creator, who has accomplished the total creation by himself with no other help from anyone else. He has revealed himself as the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, the God and Creator of Israel.

What you say is true that there are others that Yahweh has created, being angels. But man, and woman are separate from them.

I do not accept any other form of worship by any other religion, because the Creator has determined how he is to be worshiped. So another religion other than that of the Torah is not what the Creator has prescribed.

Yahweh has had himself described in this way--Exo_20:3 "You shall have no other gods before me.
Deu_4:35 You were shown these things so that you might know that the LORD is God; besides him there is no other.
Isa_45:18 For this is what the LORD says— he who created the heavens, he is God; he who fashioned and made the earth, he founded it; he did not create it to be empty, but formed it to be inhabited— he says: "I am the LORD, and there is no other.
Isa_45:22 "Turn to me and be saved, all you ends of the earth; for I am God, and there is no other.

So the Torah forms the basis of faith, and this faith enables people to draw near to this most Holy Creator. These simple requirements are stipulated in the Ten Commands, and if people abide by these simple commands they will form a better society.
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Old 21st April 2017, 12:23 AM   #3054
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Originally Posted by Paul Bethke View Post
What you so incorrectly imply is erroneous in extreme. The Torah is the basis for all peoples, blacks and whites when we use that distinction.

Depending on the response to the Gospel, so will be the judgement.
Jesus made this clear in his statement—(Luke_12:48 But the one who does not know and does things deserving punishment will be beaten with few blows. From everyone who has been given much, much will be demanded; and from the one who has been entrusted with much, much more will be asked.

So it would appear that the whites will be more severely punished than the ignorant blacks.
Everyone who has heard will be held accountable.

The laws in Apartheid are more clearly aligned with the laws of the Creator. The present laws are opposed to the laws of the Creator—so it is very obvious which system is preferred by the Creator.

The Old Testament that you so wrongly call it, is no different to the New Covenant. The distinction is that in the time of the establishment of the nation of Israel there were barbaric people, and they were dealt with as was required.

Apartheid encountered barbarism in the form of black culture, and as such sought to separate the whites from that. Black culture still exists today, so there is still a separation policy in place.

But you have become blind in that virtually every nation today is established on the same principal as Apartheid. The whites who invaded the land of the Indians of America were more barbaric than the Boer who invaded South Africa. Colonization of Africa was accompanied by much barbarism, especially in the Congo.

No Sir you in your lack of knowledge of the situation are blind to the true facts and would rather hold on to error. The Rwanda genocide proves that there is apartheid, where 800k people were slaughtered. There was and still is tribalism in Africa, where apartheid is present. The Catholics and Protestants have a system of apartheid, the Jews and Gentiles still have a classification of apartheid.

Now that Apartheid is supposedly gone there is anarchy in place, corruption, and lawlessness.
No Comet you are horribly mistaken, Apartheid is not barbaric, it is holy.
That is not only disturbing, it is borderline grounds for an intervention. The MA precludes further comment.
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Old 21st April 2017, 12:53 AM   #3055
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Originally Posted by PartSkeptic View Post
Really? You should start watching documentaries about the real world. Poverty, sickness, misery - on a massive scale. Not to mention the refugees pouring out of the Middle East.



You must be one of the pampered elite.

You should start watching documentaries about history.
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Old 21st April 2017, 01:37 AM   #3056
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Originally Posted by PartSkeptic View Post
You touch on the need to update religion. I agree. The virginity thing was written at a time that girls and women did not ride bicycles or horses, or do gymnastics or other such activities.
Really? No woman ever rode a horse in historical times? What did they do, run along behind the men?
And they didn't do gymnastics or other such activities? These kinds of activities- and I'm thinking of dancing particularly- seem to be as old as civilisation itself.
Do you have any evidence to support these sweeping generalisations about historical times, or is this yet more of your opinions disguised as facts?
Originally Posted by PartSkeptic View Post
I was told I live under a rock.
Deliberate cherrypick noted. Try answering the entire sentence, not just part of it.

Originally Posted by PartSkeptic View Post
No - I see things as they are, and as they should be.
Firstly, the second clause contradicts the first.
Next, no, you don't, as your posts repeatedly show. You see the world, much as everyone else does, through a series of filters and biases. Note that I am not saying you are mentally deficient, before you start all that again, nor am I questioning your intelligence. I am simply saying that, wherever you place yourself on the Bell curve, you are human. Your brain functions in the same way as everyone else's.
The idea that everything is getting worse is selective filtering on your part. You ignore all the positive in order to come to that conclusion. I suggest you fight the confirmation bias that leads you to these notions, and broaden your perspective. This extract below is a clear example of that:
Originally Posted by PartSkeptic View Post
The many conflicts and poverty and toxins are spreading people and disease. Many medicines rely on our immune systems to work. It they start failing so will modern medicine.
Originally Posted by PartSkeptic View Post
There are signs that 2017 is the year, so you will not have to wait long for the beginning of the END! (End of bad things that is ).
In which case I shall ask you the same question Paul Bethke has ignored or failed to answer uncountable numbers of times:

What signs? What specifically leads you to believe that "2017 is the year"?
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Old 21st April 2017, 01:38 AM   #3057
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Originally Posted by Paul Bethke View Post
The simple answer is that the Creator gave laws and man and woman have ignored them, as a result there is wide scale corruption in the world pertaining to the true obligation of what marriage should be.

If parents do not teach their children the important laws pertaining to marriage then we have what we have.

So when girls are taught the basics of marriage, they will preserve their purity—the same applies to boys. But today immorality is rife, so there is no focus on purity reserved for marriage.

So when the Gospel is proclaimed in its unadulterated sagacity men will become guilty.

The irrelevant blathering you speak of is due to your lack of understanding of logic.. Man is responsible for the corruption in the world, and will always be until the Kingdom is established.
Third time lucky?
Have another go.
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Old 21st April 2017, 01:52 AM   #3058
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Originally Posted by Cosmic Yak View Post
Third time lucky?
Have another go.
Teaching a man his responsibilities and a girl hers is the only way. When you live in a world like we do, where there is not purity in marriage then what can you expect.

You seem to favour the fact that people should practice immorality without taking responsibility for their actions, and then when the consequences of this permeates society you want to blame the Creator.

To destroy a nation, you destroy the concept of a family, for a nation is based on the family. So, to correct this corruption the Gospel must spell out the cause.
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Old 21st April 2017, 01:55 AM   #3059
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Originally Posted by wollery View Post
You should start watching documentaries about history.
Or look up the stats on life expectancy.

There have always been poverty, sickness, and misery, but by most measures all these things have decreased since humanity started looking to science rather than superstition to reduce them. And yes, there are reasons to be less than sanguine that this will continue indefinitely (antibiotics becoming less effective through overuse, nutters creating biological weapons, climate change etc) but switching back to superstition is most definitely not the solution. Particularly not Paul Bethke's distasteful brand of superstition.
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Old 21st April 2017, 06:34 AM   #3060
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Originally Posted by Paul Bethke View Post
No Comet you are horribly mistaken, Apartheid is not barbaric, it is holy.
This is a deeply disturbing statement.
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Old 21st April 2017, 06:53 AM   #3061
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Originally Posted by abaddon View Post
That is not only disturbing, it is borderline grounds for an intervention. The MA precludes further comment.
Originally Posted by JayUtah View Post
This is a deeply disturbing statement.
It is extremely disturbing......
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Old 21st April 2017, 06:57 AM   #3062
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Originally Posted by Paul Bethke View Post
Teaching a man his responsibilities and a girl hers is the only way. When you live in a world like we do, where there is not purity in marriage then what can you expect.

You seem to favour the fact that people should practice immorality without taking responsibility for their actions, and then when the consequences of this permeates society you want to blame the Creator.

To destroy a nation, you destroy the concept of a family, for a nation is based on the family. So, to correct this corruption the Gospel must spell out the cause.
You keep giving long meaningless ramblings but you REFUSE TO ANSWER THE QUESTION Cosmic Yak asked you.

Several times you have been asked to answer. But you REFUSE TO ANSWER THE QUESTION.

Here it is again:

How does one know if a male is a virgin?
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Old 21st April 2017, 07:14 AM   #3063
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Originally Posted by Paul Bethke View Post
Teaching a man his responsibilities and a girl hers is the only way. When you live in a world like we do, where there is not purity in marriage then what can you expect.

You seem to favour the fact that people should practice immorality without taking responsibility for their actions, and then when the consequences of this permeates society you want to blame the Creator.

To destroy a nation, you destroy the concept of a family, for a nation is based on the family. So, to correct this corruption the Gospel must spell out the cause.
Originally Posted by Zivan View Post
You keep giving long meaningless ramblings but you REFUSE TO ANSWER THE QUESTION Cosmic Yak asked you.

Several times you have been asked to answer. But you REFUSE TO ANSWER THE QUESTION.

Here it is again:

How does one know if a male is a virgin?
To reemphasise:
How is a girl supposed to know if a man is a virgin? If there is no way of knowing this, how can she refrain from adultery ( as you define it)? Why is it only important, in the eyes of your god, that women are virgins and not men? Why did your god not make a way for women to know if a man is a virgin?

I'm not giving up on this. Answer the questions.
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Old 21st April 2017, 08:04 AM   #3064
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Originally Posted by Paul Bethke View Post
What you so incorrectly imply is erroneous in extreme. The Torah is the basis for all peoples, blacks and whites when we use that distinction.

Depending on the response to the Gospel, so will be the judgement.
Jesus made this clear in his statement—(Luke_12:48 But the one who does not know and does things deserving punishment will be beaten with few blows. From everyone who has been given much, much will be demanded; and from the one who has been entrusted with much, much more will be asked.

So it would appear that the whites will be more severely punished than the ignorant blacks.
Everyone who has heard will be held accountable.

The laws in Apartheid are more clearly aligned with the laws of the Creator. The present laws are opposed to the laws of the Creator—so it is very obvious which system is preferred by the Creator.

The Old Testament that you so wrongly call it, is no different to the New Covenant. The distinction is that in the time of the establishment of the nation of Israel there were barbaric people, and they were dealt with as was required.

Apartheid encountered barbarism in the form of black culture, and as such sought to separate the whites from that. Black culture still exists today, so there is still a separation policy in place.

But you have become blind in that virtually every nation today is established on the same principal as Apartheid. The whites who invaded the land of the Indians of America were more barbaric than the Boer who invaded South Africa. Colonization of Africa was accompanied by much barbarism, especially in the Congo.

No Sir you in your lack of knowledge of the situation are blind to the true facts and would rather hold on to error. The Rwanda genocide proves that there is apartheid, where 800k people were slaughtered. There was and still is tribalism in Africa, where apartheid is present. The Catholics and Protestants have a system of apartheid, the Jews and Gentiles still have a classification of apartheid.

Now that Apartheid is supposedly gone there is anarchy in place, corruption, and lawlessness.
No Comet you are horribly mistaken, Apartheid is not barbaric, it is holy.
Give me that old time religion...

You're the miserable prick that gives the other 99.9% of religious whackjobs a bad name.
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Old 21st April 2017, 08:09 AM   #3065
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Originally Posted by PartSkeptic View Post
Really? You should start watching documentaries about the real world. Poverty, sickness, misery - on a massive scale. Not to mention the refugees pouring out of the Middle East.

You must be one of the pampered elite.
Reported for personalizing the argument.

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Old 21st April 2017, 08:20 AM   #3066
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Originally Posted by Paul Bethke View Post
The Old Testament that you so wrongly call it, is no different to the New Covenant.
If you believe that, then why don't you observe the feasts and festivals outlines in the Mitzvot? The absence of the temple in Jerusalem does not excuse you from, for example, observing Passover.

The fact that you do not observe all the Old Testament laws is proof positive that you DO believe there is a difference between the old and new covenants.

Originally Posted by Paul Bethke View Post
The distinction is that in the time of the establishment of the nation of Israel there were barbaric people, and they were dealt with as was required.
Why then do you steadfastly refuse to accept Deuteronomy 22:28-29 is about rape? It was a time when, like in many parts fo the world today, women were viewed as little more than chattel. A raped woman was valueless as a potential wife as far as many men were concerned. Many modern apologists describe Deuteronomy 22:28-29 as merciful for its time because it forced a rapist to financially support his victim.

If you believe that the period for which those laws were written was a barbaric one, why are tyring to ignore some of the barbarism they address?
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Old 21st April 2017, 08:22 AM   #3067
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Originally Posted by PartSkeptic View Post
Really? You should start watching documentaries about the real world. Poverty, sickness, misery - on a massive scale. Not to mention the refugees pouring out of the Middle East.

You must be one of the pampered elite.
I live in the real world.

Looked at from a historical point of view - poverty, sickness and misery are on the decline. Lifespans are increasing, there are fewer famines, a larger percentage of people are no longer living lives were to ensure financial stability they must send their children out into the workforce before the onset of puberty, crime and violence are declining overall and even the number f wars is decreasing.

We are simply more aware of these things due to the presence of media.
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Old 22nd April 2017, 12:54 AM   #3068
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Originally Posted by Border Reiver View Post
I live in the real world.

Looked at from a historical point of view - poverty, sickness and misery are on the decline. Lifespans are increasing, there are fewer famines, a larger percentage of people are no longer living lives were to ensure financial stability they must send their children out into the workforce before the onset of puberty, crime and violence are declining overall and even the number f wars is decreasing.

We are simply more aware of these things due to the presence of media.
I have already pointed this out. Thus far, PartSkeptic has declined to respond.
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Old 22nd April 2017, 01:58 AM   #3069
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Originally Posted by Cosmic Yak View Post
Really? No woman ever rode a horse in historical times? What did they do, run along behind the men?
And they didn't do gymnastics or other such activities? These kinds of activities- and I'm thinking of dancing particularly- seem to be as old as civilisation itself.
Do you have any evidence to support these sweeping generalisations about historical times, or is this yet more of your opinions disguised as facts?

(snip)

In which case I shall ask you the same question Paul Bethke has ignored or failed to answer uncountable numbers of times:

What signs? What specifically leads you to believe that "2017 is the year"?

It was unseemly for women ride astride a horse. They either rode side-saddle, or in a transport of sorts. Joan of Arc was one exception I can think of.

Dancing for women was modest in nearly every culture. Name one where they performed "gymnastics"?

The signs:

Moral decay on a truly global scale. Something the world has never seen before. Corruption - both personal and corporate. Drug-taking, sexual promiscuity, prostitution for work and drugs, school shootings, gangs, deviant sexual practices and cheating have become "normal".

The global economy is winding down. Unemployment is rising. Globally. Terrorism is rising. Ethnic and religious conflicts are worsening. Personal safety is down. Hope is down. Extremists of all persuasions globally are rising. Trump. Le Pen. Brexit. Syria. North Korea.

In Africa, all the ex-colonies are going backwards are are being exploited by a few rich Western and Asian men. There are elements of progress that one can point to, but economics have deteriorated to informal trading, and politics has deteriorated to tribal power and wealth.

Children are suffering all sorts of medical problems that are new. Autism is on the rise. Young kids are on mood altering prescriptions. Parents no longer know how to teach or discipline children.

Artificial intelligence in surging to the point that it could get out of control soon. Robots replacing workers is a serious problem where the controlling elite benefit themselves.

Genetic experiments are losing any ethical restraint. Companies are rushing GMO's without long-term isolated observations (two or three generations).

Antibiotics are losing effectiveness. Virus infections are mutating fast. Just how many variants can a human be immunized against? Viral loads are increasing. Flu has gone from a couple of types to many (the HxNy series).

Toxins, global climate change, population, species extinction, pollution.

And humankind's inability to agree on measures to fix these problems. Most of what one sees is company PR.

There is one other sign that tells me 2017 is the year. You may or may not get to know it when it happens.
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Old 22nd April 2017, 02:08 AM   #3070
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Originally Posted by Border Reiver View Post
I live in the real world.

Looked at from a historical point of view - poverty, sickness and misery are on the decline. Lifespans are increasing, there are fewer famines, a larger percentage of people are no longer living lives were to ensure financial stability they must send their children out into the workforce before the onset of puberty, crime and violence are declining overall and even the number f wars is decreasing.

We are simply more aware of these things due to the presence of media.

Depends on which media you select. Depends on how statistics paint a picture.

Look at the countries that sell their children because they cannot afford them. Look at human trafficking. Look at farmer suicides as the weather destroys crops and/or governments fail to support them.

I agree that there have great strides in many areas. They are being replaced by other problems causing global stress and possible extinction to humankind.

You and I both live in the real world. But you cherry pick your vision of the world. Do you think that your "measures" of a planet's well-being are the right ones?
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Old 22nd April 2017, 02:11 AM   #3071
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Originally Posted by Zivan View Post
You keep giving long meaningless ramblings but you REFUSE TO ANSWER THE QUESTION Cosmic Yak asked you.

Several times you have been asked to answer. But you REFUSE TO ANSWER THE QUESTION.

Here it is again:

How does one know if a male is a virgin?

Ask him. If he blushes, he is one.
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Old 22nd April 2017, 04:39 AM   #3072
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Originally Posted by PartSkeptic View Post
It was unseemly for women ride astride a horse. They either rode side-saddle, or in a transport of sorts. Joan of Arc was one exception I can think of.

Dancing for women was modest in nearly every culture. Name one where they performed "gymnastics"?

The signs:

Moral decay on a truly global scale. Something the world has never seen before. Corruption - both personal and corporate. Drug-taking, sexual promiscuity, prostitution for work and drugs, school shootings, gangs, deviant sexual practices and cheating have become "normal".

The global economy is winding down. Unemployment is rising. Globally. Terrorism is rising. Ethnic and religious conflicts are worsening. Personal safety is down. Hope is down. Extremists of all persuasions globally are rising. Trump. Le Pen. Brexit. Syria. North Korea.

In Africa, all the ex-colonies are going backwards are are being exploited by a few rich Western and Asian men. There are elements of progress that one can point to, but economics have deteriorated to informal trading, and politics has deteriorated to tribal power and wealth.

Children are suffering all sorts of medical problems that are new. Autism is on the rise. Young kids are on mood altering prescriptions. Parents no longer know how to teach or discipline children.

Artificial intelligence in surging to the point that it could get out of control soon. Robots replacing workers is a serious problem where the controlling elite benefit themselves.

Genetic experiments are losing any ethical restraint. Companies are rushing GMO's without long-term isolated observations (two or three generations).

Antibiotics are losing effectiveness. Virus infections are mutating fast. Just how many variants can a human be immunized against? Viral loads are increasing. Flu has gone from a couple of types to many (the HxNy series).

Toxins, global climate change, population, species extinction, pollution.

And humankind's inability to agree on measures to fix these problems. Most of what one sees is company PR.

There is one other sign that tells me 2017 is the year. You may or may not get to know it when it happens.
Wait a minute! Call me slow, but are you seriously suggesting that 2017 is yet another TEOTWAWKI? Damn! I hate it when that happens! How many times is this, now? I mean just since 2000.

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Old 22nd April 2017, 04:46 AM   #3073
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Originally Posted by Paul Bethke View Post
Teaching a man his responsibilities and a girl hers is the only way. When you live in a world like we do, where there is not purity in marriage then what can you expect.

You seem to favour the fact that people should practice immorality without taking responsibility for their actions, and then when the consequences of this permeates society you want to blame the Creator.

To destroy a nation, you destroy the concept of a family, for a nation is based on the family. So, to correct this corruption the Gospel must spell out the cause.
Damn, and I though I was having a hard time moving on after my divorce.
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Old 22nd April 2017, 05:43 AM   #3074
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Originally Posted by PartSkeptic View Post
Moral decay on a truly global scale. Something the world has never seen before.
OK, let's start here. Your evidence for this assertion is?

Modern societies in which, for example, slavery, prostitution, discrimination and child labour are all illegal are surely morally superior to just about any past society of which we have a record.
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Old 22nd April 2017, 06:27 AM   #3075
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Originally Posted by Pixel42 View Post
OK, let's start here. Your evidence for this assertion is?

Modern societies in which, for example, slavery, prostitution, discrimination and child labour are all illegal are surely morally superior to just about any past society of which we have a record.
I'm with you on this. That was a monunental Gish Gallop of sweeping and unevidenced assertions, and it should only be dealt with one assertion at a time.

This is evidence for the other side, namely that morality has improved in the modern era (in the US at least). The article also makes the interesting point that this is occuring at a time of declining religious belief.
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Old 22nd April 2017, 07:11 AM   #3076
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Originally Posted by halleyscomet View Post
If you believe that, then why don't you observe the feasts and festivals outlines in the Mitzvot? The absence of the temple in Jerusalem does not excuse you from, for example, observing Passover.

The fact that you do not observe all the Old Testament laws is proof positive that you DO believe there is a difference between the old and new covenants.
What must be considered firstly the laws were given to Israel as a binding Covenant, the purpose being to introduce these laws as a standard for all nations to adopt. A close analysis will reveal that at that time nations were grossly corrupt due to not having a moral standard to live by.

The destruction of the Temples left the Hebrews without an external visual system whereby sacrifices could be made to Yahweh for the atonement of sin. The rest of the laws pertained to the Jews who lived in Israel. The laws were national laws, and as such were directed to the Jews in Israel.

So now how should I observe the Passover?
The Passover is a foreshadow of the death of the Messiah, who would replace all animal sacrifices with his death as the atoning sacrifice thereby abolishing all animal sacrifices.
We take the communion cup and the bread in remembrance of this as instructed by Jesus every Sunday, and when appropriate.
(Mat 26:26 While they were eating, Jesus took bread, gave thanks and broke it, and gave it to his disciples, saying, "Take and eat; this is my body."
Mat 26:27 Then he took the cup, gave thanks and offered it to them, saying, "Drink from it, all of you.
Mat 26:28 This is my blood of the covenant, which is poured out for many for the forgiveness of sins.

This sacrifice did not nullify the entire law the moral aspects of the law are still binding.


Quote:
Why then do you steadfastly refuse to accept Deuteronomy 22:28-29 is about rape? It was a time when, like in many parts fo the world today, women were viewed as little more than chattel. A raped woman was valueless as a potential wife as far as many men were concerned. Many modern apologists describe Deuteronomy 22:28-29 as merciful for its time because it forced a rapist to financially support his victim.
The very word rape is not supported, it points to a man who persuaded a virgin to have sex with him.
Now this act between a man and a woman depicts marriage, so now the man is obliged to make the girl his wife for life. You fail to see that if the man raped the virgin then as a rapist he must die.

There is no way that the law would allow the girl to accept the rapist as her husband.

It is the same today that many a virgin has been persuaded to relinquish their purity to a man and he has not kept his word and run off—the law would require that he remain with the girl as her husband.
In south Africa alone there are 5 million children who do not know who their fathers are, men make girls pregnant and run off with no responsibility. This law would insure that fathers stay with their children. This abandonment is the cause of all poverty in the world today—single mother pandemic.
Quote:
If you believe that the period for which those laws were written was a barbaric one, why are tyring to ignore some of the barbarism they address?
The laws apply to all time as barbarism is present today as it was then.
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Old 22nd April 2017, 07:23 AM   #3077
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Originally Posted by Paul Bethke View Post
What must be considered firstly the laws were given to Israel as a binding Covenant, the purpose being to introduce these laws as a standard for all nations to adopt. A close analysis will reveal that at that time nations were grossly corrupt due to not having a moral standard to live by.

The destruction of the Temples left the Hebrews without an external visual system whereby sacrifices could be made to Yahweh for the atonement of sin. The rest of the laws pertained to the Jews who lived in Israel. The laws were national laws, and as such were directed to the Jews in Israel.

So now how should I observe the Passover?
The Passover is a foreshadow of the death of the Messiah, who would replace all animal sacrifices with his death as the atoning sacrifice thereby abolishing all animal sacrifices.
We take the communion cup and the bread in remembrance of this as instructed by Jesus every Sunday, and when appropriate.
(Mat 26:26 While they were eating, Jesus took bread, gave thanks and broke it, and gave it to his disciples, saying, "Take and eat; this is my body."
Mat 26:27 Then he took the cup, gave thanks and offered it to them, saying, "Drink from it, all of you.
Mat 26:28 This is my blood of the covenant, which is poured out for many for the forgiveness of sins.

This sacrifice did not nullify the entire law the moral aspects of the law are still binding.



The very word rape is not supported, it points to a man who persuaded a virgin to have sex with him.
Now this act between a man and a woman depicts marriage, so now the man is obliged to make the girl his wife for life. You fail to see that if the man raped the virgin then as a rapist he must die.

There is no way that the law would allow the girl to accept the rapist as her husband.

It is the same today that many a virgin has been persuaded to relinquish their purity to a man and he has not kept his word and run off—the law would require that he remain with the girl as her husband.
In south Africa alone there are 5 million children who do not know who their fathers are, men make girls pregnant and run off with no responsibility. This law would insure that fathers stay with their children. This abandonment is the cause of all poverty in the world today—single mother pandemic.

The laws apply to all time as barbarism is present today as it was then.


Make up your mind. One moment you say there's no difference between the two covenants. Now you're claiming rather substantial differences between them. No wonder you have no followers. You need at least some remedial degree of consistency in your claims before anyone's going to follow you. Failing that, you need to provide a rationalization or be charismatic enough to get people to gloss over the glaring inconsistencies of your claims.

To quote another poster on this forum, you can't have a drunk wife and a full barrel.
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Old 22nd April 2017, 07:59 AM   #3078
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Originally Posted by Paul Bethke View Post
The Passover is a foreshadow of the death of the Messiah, who would replace all animal sacrifices with his death as the atoning sacrifice thereby abolishing all animal sacrifices.
Utterly FALSE.

Pesakh ("Passover") has NOTHING to do with "atoning" for anything. It was an annual celebration, NOT a "sin sacrifice".


Quote:
We take the communion cup and the bread in remembrance of this as instructed by Jesus every Sunday, and when appropriate.
(Mat 26:26 While they were eating, Jesus took bread, gave thanks and broke it, and gave it to his disciples, saying, "Take and eat; this is my body."
Mat 26:27 Then he took the cup, gave thanks and offered it to them, saying, "Drink from it, all of you.
Mat 26:28 This is my blood of the covenant, which is poured out for many for the forgiveness of sins.
Cannibalism ("symbolic" or otherwise) is an ABOMINATION in Judaism.


Quote:
The very word rape is not supported, it points to a man who persuaded a virgin to have sex with him.
Utterly FALSE.

You have said it is about "seduction"/"entice". Now you are using the word "persuaded". You are wrong. For the millionth time. Again.

Please answer this post which you have ignored:

Originally Posted by Zivan View Post
They do not make a distinction, because what you posted from deut 22:25-29 is about RAPE.

Here is the verse (deut 22:29). SHOW me where there is a word that means, "entice" or "seduction" or "willing".

וְנָתַן הָאִישׁ הַשֹּׁכֵב עִמָּהּ לַאֲבִי הַנַּעֲרָה (כתיב הנער) חֲמִשִּׁים כָּסֶף וְלוֹ תִהְיֶה לְאִשָּׁה תַּחַת אֲשֶׁר עִנָּהּ לֹא יוּכַל שַׁלְּחָהּ כָּל יָמָיו:

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Old 22nd April 2017, 08:05 AM   #3079
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Originally Posted by halleyscomet View Post
Make up your mind. One moment you say there's no difference between the two covenants. Now you're claiming rather substantial differences between them. No wonder you have no followers. You need at least some remedial degree of consistency in your claims before anyone's going to follow you.
^Exactly. He does not know what he is talking about.

And thank tammuz he has no followers!!!!!
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Old 22nd April 2017, 08:09 AM   #3080
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Bump (AGAIN!!!) for PB....

Paul, WHY do you continue to IGNORE this question??????

It is almost as if you have NO IDEA how to answer........

Originally Posted by Cosmic Yak View Post
To reemphasise:
How is a girl supposed to know if a man is a virgin? If there is no way of knowing this, how can she refrain from adultery ( as you define it)? Why is it only important, in the eyes of your god, that women are virgins and not men? Why did your god not make a way for women to know if a man is a virgin?

I'm not giving up on this. Answer the questions.
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