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Old 2nd February 2017, 09:24 PM   #361
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Do you have eyewitness testimony to offer?

Last time I checked there wasn't much evidentiary weight to a statement of incredulity.
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Old 2nd February 2017, 09:26 PM   #362
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Originally Posted by caveman1917 View Post
I'm sure you'd hate to think that. Not sure why you think the Stonewall riots are an argument to "excuse" my posting behaviour, or why my posting behaviour would require an "excuse". They are a good argument against liberal ******** though.


Sure, that's what I was objecting to.

Uh-huh.

You do know all you're doing is repeatedly demonstrating the tendency of an anarchist to impulsively lie about everything, right?
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Old 2nd February 2017, 09:29 PM   #363
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Originally Posted by Delphic Oracle View Post


Do you have eyewitness testimony to offer?

Last time I checked there wasn't much evidentiary weight to a statement of incredulity.
There is none to unsupported assertions, that's for sure. Feel free to provide some evidence for your claims.
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Old 2nd February 2017, 09:29 PM   #364
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Originally Posted by caveman1917 View Post
There is none to unsupported assertions, that's for sure. Feel free to provide some evidence for your claims.
Eyewitness testimony is evidence.

Your turn.
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Old 2nd February 2017, 09:33 PM   #365
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Originally Posted by Delphic Oracle View Post


Sure, that's what I was objecting to.

Uh-huh.
Here is what you said:
Quote:
Because I'd hate to think you just used someone else's struggle as an argument to excuse your behavior.
Reasonably the only behaviour of me you'd have been able to observe is my posting behaviour. Which behaviour, exactly, did you mean otherwise?

Quote:
You do know all you're doing is repeatedly demonstrating the tendency of an anarchist to impulsively lie about everything, right?
More unsupported assertions. Evidence?
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Old 2nd February 2017, 09:35 PM   #366
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Originally Posted by logger View Post
These aren't anarchists, they are leftist liberals. Why must it be proven over and over to you what these people are?
Snort.
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Old 2nd February 2017, 09:36 PM   #367
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Was going to post this CNN article about subsequent developments:

Berkeley protests of Yiannopoulos caused $100,000 in damage

Quote:
The university blamed "150 masked agitators" for the unrest, saying they had come to campus to disturb an otherwise peaceful protest.

Two Berkeley College Republicans "were attacked while conducting an interview" on the campus on Thursday, UC Berkeley also said in a prepared statement. The attackers, who were not affiliated with the university, were taken into custody by UC Berkeley police.
So you have some people who aren't even affiliated with the university (according to the university anyway) coming on campus and causing $100,000 in damage. I don't know if that figure even includes what happened off campus.

My understanding is that the University itself was in favor of free speech.
The "Black Bloc" is a cancer.

Quote:
Black-clad protesters wearing masks threw commercial-grade fireworks and rocks at police. Some even hurled Molotov cocktails that ignited fires. They also smashed windows of the student union center on the Berkeley campus where the Yiannopoulos event was to be held.
At least six people were injured. Some were attacked by the agitators -- who are a part of an anarchist group known as the "Black Bloc" that has been causing problems in Oakland for years, said Dan Mogulof, UC Berkeley spokesman.
Then there's Trump's reaction:

Quote:
President Donald Trump weighed in on Twitter, suggesting the possibility of cutting federal funds to the public university.
"If U.C. Berkeley does not allow free speech and practices violence on innocent people with a different point of view -- NO FEDERAL FUNDS?" Trump tweeted Thursday morning.
Later, Yiannopoulos posted Trump's tweet to Facebook and proclaimed himself "the catalyst for this change."
"American universities are on notice. The President is watching," he wrote. "The days you could silence conservative and libertarian voices on campus and still expect to collect their tax money are coming to an end."
So, the University is actually one of the victims here, the "agitators" (or at least most of them more than likely) came from the outside and started a riot. But Trump makes no distinction and simply blames the University itself and threatens to cut their funding. Troll Milo who I'm sure is aware who is really behind the violence piles on with his taunts, but I'm sure he's secretly very pleased to be the center of attention.
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Old 2nd February 2017, 09:37 PM   #368
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Originally Posted by Delphic Oracle View Post
Eyewitness testimony is evidence.

Your turn.
I don't believe fascists[*] when they whine about anarchists.

* you've outed yourself quite clearly with claiming that things anarchists do, such as housing for homeless and refugees, provision of free stuff to poor people, providing free food to those who need it, etc are "nothing of value".
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Old 2nd February 2017, 09:38 PM   #369
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No, I don't have people on film admitting they stole money and left their fellow protesters to rot in jail alone (yay solidarity?).

But this corroborates the direct action.

So again: what's your counter-claim? Who do you cite?
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Old 2nd February 2017, 09:39 PM   #370
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Originally Posted by Delphic Oracle View Post
I align with caveman on almost nothing.

But on this we can find common ground.

I have yet to meet a black bloc that was less than 90% young adult white males from the suburbs who wouldn't know oppression if it crushed their throat with a boot stomp.

After a hard day of putting their sacred lives and honor on the line in the grand struggle to 'liberate the public spaces', they will pile into their hand-me-down mid-size luxury sedans their parents gave them, go back to loft condos in gentrified neighborhoods (they moved their for 'the diverse culture' that they displaced upon arriving in it) paid for with mommy and daddy's trust fund money and complain about how 'ungrateful' the other protesters were to them.
And this is part of the Progressive movement, why? How?

The anarchists are much closer to the Bundy crowd than they are to Progressives. Look at the Women's March on the 21st. Millions of women, men and kids all over the world protesting Trump and his bigoted, racist, misogynist pals and it was 100% peaceful as far as I know. That is the Progressive movement.

Anarchists love to latch on to a protest, ever since the WTO protests in this neck of the woods where there were indeed more Progressives and liberals that made a statement against trade and corporations that left workers and the disadvantaged in terrible straights they seem to come out to every major event.

I've been an anti-war activist since I was in my teens. There have always been the tagalongs trying to claim the crowd was for their causes most people in the protest never heard of. Sometime the protest leaders were successful marginalizing the tagger-ons, sometimes they were allowed to march with their minority opinion signs. The Socialist Workers Party are your classic leaches trying to make it look like a march agrees with them when we don't.

This is the same crap. Protest organizers need to learn from the successful methods of marginalizing these idiots and not letting them take credit for a massive movement that are not there to support their nonsense.

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Old 2nd February 2017, 09:41 PM   #371
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Originally Posted by caveman1917 View Post
I don't believe fascists[*] when they whine about anarchists.

* you've outed yourself quite clearly with claiming that things anarchists do, such as housing for homeless and refugees, provision of free stuff to poor people, providing free food to those who need it, etc are "nothing of value".
I don't believe criminals when they whine about good journalism.

You've outed yourself quite clearly with claiming that things anarchists do, like lying to people about the risks they are about to involve themselves in, ripping off their fellow activists, leaving them to rot, and having no actual real intention to do any of these 'outreach to the vulnerable' activities you claim to support, are the hallmarks of true committed protest.

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Old 2nd February 2017, 09:43 PM   #372
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Originally Posted by Delphic Oracle View Post
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No, I don't have people on film admitting they stole money and left their fellow protesters to rot in jail alone (yay solidarity?).

But this corroborates the direct action.

So again: what's your counter-claim? Who do you cite?
All this shows is some people attempting to occupy a building and then getting arrested.
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Old 2nd February 2017, 09:46 PM   #373
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Originally Posted by caveman1917 View Post
All this shows is some people attempting to occupy a building and then getting arrested.
Which corroborates elements of my report.

So far the ratio of evidence is infinite in comparison to the jack **** you have.

ETA: 20 minutes of video, 5 minutes between post and reply on timestamps.

So you didn't even watch them, did you?

More lies, so even if you do rebut me, you've got a credibility issue, too.

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Old 2nd February 2017, 09:46 PM   #374
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
And this is part of the Progressive movement, why? How?
Anarchism is not part of the liberal movement.
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Old 2nd February 2017, 09:47 PM   #375
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Originally Posted by caveman1917 View Post
Anarchism is not part of the liberal movement.
So why do your posts suggest it is?
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Old 2nd February 2017, 09:49 PM   #376
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
So why do your posts suggest it is?
Don't hold him accountable for things he said 2 or 3 posts ago.

That's, like, oppression, man!
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Old 2nd February 2017, 09:56 PM   #377
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Oh, and the gal giving the interview in those clips above?

She and her boyfriend set the action up. They never once stepped foot in the building, so they technically broke no laws and went home that night (they didn't stay in camp). Yay solidarity?

Her boyfriend was known for his temper and would pull a knife on people. The camp was on a plaza that was state property, not city. There was a judicial order preventing their eviction. State cops never did anything (out of retribution) and city cops had no jurisdiction, so we couldn't oust him.

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Old 2nd February 2017, 10:06 PM   #378
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Originally Posted by Delphic Oracle View Post
I don't believe criminals when they whine about good journalism.
Ah yes, another clear distinction between fascism and leftism. Fascism is obsessed with crime and punishment (such as the praxis of collaborating with the police to get people arrested you promoted earlier) and considers so-called "criminals" to have bad inherent characteristics making them "not to be believed".

This stands in clear opposition to anarchism, which uphold a praxis of organizing prisoners to fight for better conditions and forming prisoner support groups and a position opposed to prisons.

This is shared in general by leftists, such as non-anarchist socialist Eugene Debbs:
Originally Posted by Debbs
I said then, and I say now, that while there is a lower class, I am in it, and while there is a criminal element I am of it, and while there is a soul in prison, I am not free.
Originally Posted by Delphic Oracle
You've outed yourself quite clearly with claiming that things anarchists do, like lying to people about the risks they are about to involve themselves in, ripping off their fellow activists, leaving them to rot, and having no actual real intention to do any of these 'outreach to the vulnerable' activities you claim to support, are the hallmarks of true committed protest.
The only part of your claims which can be verified is an outright lie, multiple examples such anarchist projects have been provided in the other thread, so what does that tell us?

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Old 2nd February 2017, 10:07 PM   #379
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
So why do your posts suggest it is?
I've never suggested that. Quite the opposite.
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Old 2nd February 2017, 10:08 PM   #380
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Originally Posted by Delphic Oracle View Post
ETA: 20 minutes of video, 5 minutes between post and reply on timestamps.

So you didn't even watch them, did you?

More lies, so even if you do rebut me, you've got a credibility issue, too.
I fast-forwarded through the stuff where, you know, nothing happens.
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Old 2nd February 2017, 10:24 PM   #381
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Originally Posted by Delphic Oracle View Post
Oh, and the gal giving the interview in those clips above?

She and her boyfriend set the action up. They never once stepped foot in the building, so they technically broke no laws and went home that night (they didn't stay in camp). Yay solidarity?

Her boyfriend was known for his temper and would pull a knife on people. The camp was on a plaza that was state property, not city. There was a judicial order preventing their eviction. State cops never did anything (out of retribution) and city cops had no jurisdiction, so we couldn't oust him.
Really all you've got here is footage of some people squatting a building and getting arrested. The rest is just your unsupported tales.

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Old 2nd February 2017, 10:53 PM   #382
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Originally Posted by Puppycow View Post
The "Black Bloc" is a cancer.
Liberalism is a cancer.

Again, just so that protesters don't make the mistake of thinking these people are allies. Milo was planning at his gathering to out undocumented students. These students could get into trouble with immigration authorities and possibly have to stop their education at UC Berkeley or even be deported. Leftists employed a black bloc tactic and prevented this from happening. Liberals on the other hand would happily throw undocumented students, or anyone else targeted by Milo & co, under the bus to further their own interests.

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Old 2nd February 2017, 11:35 PM   #383
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Originally Posted by Puppycow View Post

So, the University is actually one of the victims here, the "agitators" (or at least most of them more than likely) came from the outside and started a riot.
We don't know who they are, so we can't know where they came from.
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Old 3rd February 2017, 12:36 AM   #384
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Originally Posted by Delphic Oracle View Post
After a hard day of putting their sacred lives and honor on the line in the grand struggle to 'liberate the public spaces', they will pile into their hand-me-down mid-size luxury sedans their parents gave them, go back to loft condos in gentrified neighborhoods (they moved their for 'the diverse culture' that they displaced upon arriving in it) paid for with mommy and daddy's trust fund money and complain about how 'ungrateful' the other protesters were to them.
But once in while the magic happens and you get to liberate that perfect little accent to your space that totally ties the whole loft experience together. That makes it so worthwhile.

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Old 3rd February 2017, 01:00 AM   #385
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Is there any actual proof that the people in masks inflicting violence and destroying property were liberal or progressive? These could just be thrill-seekers wishing for a purge night.

Side note: Milo is a homophobic Uncle Tom.

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Old 3rd February 2017, 01:09 AM   #386
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Originally Posted by sunmaster14 View Post
Milo is not boring. He's fascinating. He's also extremely articulate and insightful. Yes, he is intentionally provocative and offensive, and he exaggerates his insights to the point of being obscene, but he has explained some things that I hadn't understood before. I'm happy to start a Milo thread to discuss.
Milo believes in Pizzagate. Therefore, any argument for him being intelligent is destroyed.
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Old 3rd February 2017, 01:22 AM   #387
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Originally Posted by ChrisBFRPKY View Post
LOL "speechify" I knew you had some humor in there somewhere.

I'm gonna concede your point because although I still don't think it was right to cancel his event, I agree with him not speaking there.

Yet if Berkeley shows some sort of habit of limiting extreme speakers to only those they agree with, I still see a problem.

Chris B.
My understanding is that this wasn't an event set up by the university but by a group of students who attend the university.
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Old 3rd February 2017, 01:31 AM   #388
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Originally Posted by Dumb All Over View Post
We don't know who they are, so we can't know where they came from.
It was reported that some of them were arrested and they were not students of the university. True, we can't know about all of them, but that's why I put my caveat. The university statement claimed they were outsiders.

Here's that article again:

http://edition.cnn.com/2017/02/01/us...ulos-berkeley/
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Old 3rd February 2017, 01:51 AM   #389
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Originally Posted by MicahJava View Post
Is there any actual proof that the people in masks inflicting violence and destroying property were liberal or progressive? These could just be thrill-seekers wishing for a purge night.
As far as that where they are on the spectrum, I just call it 'off-scale'.

Thrill-seeking is certainly part of it. I put them at a half-step remove from 'vacation protesters' who zip around from one flare-up of civil unrest to another almost like their overriding ambition is create a facebook 'check-in' portfolio of their faux-activism. There is certainly overlap in that regard, as well. I saw one guy in 3 cities within about a 6 month stretch. He would usually find a woman to crash with in short order, he bragged to me about using different names everywhere 'so these chicks don't find out about each other.'

Quote:
Side note: Milo is a homophobic Uncle Tom.
This cannot be overstated.

He is Breitbart's resident 'see, we're totally not fag-bashing!' token.
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Old 3rd February 2017, 02:04 AM   #390
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Originally Posted by Puppycow View Post
It was reported that some of them were arrested and they were not students of the university. True, we can't know about all of them, but that's why I put my caveat. The university statement claimed they were outsiders.

Here's that article again:

http://edition.cnn.com/2017/02/01/us...ulos-berkeley/
Well, they will have searchable public records of the arrests and one could start chasing down details through social media and whatnot.

But one wonders where the enthusiasm to do so might generate from since facts don't matter anyways. Just take a glance back up the thread a ways for examples.
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Old 3rd February 2017, 02:08 AM   #391
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Originally Posted by caveman1917 View Post
Liberalism is a cancer.

Again, just so that protesters don't make the mistake of thinking these people are allies. Milo was planning at his gathering to out undocumented students. These students could get into trouble with immigration authorities and possibly have to stop their education at UC Berkeley or even be deported. Leftists employed a black bloc tactic and prevented this from happening. Liberals on the other hand would happily throw undocumented students, or anyone else targeted by Milo & co, under the bus to further their own interests.
Any evidence? In theory this is a forum for skeptics, so I'd like more than a link to a facebook post of some person I don't know.
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Old 3rd February 2017, 02:58 AM   #392
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Originally Posted by MicahJava View Post
Milo believes in Pizzagate.
Source?
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Old 3rd February 2017, 02:59 AM   #393
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Originally Posted by Puppycow View Post
It was reported that some of them were arrested and they were not students of the university. True, we can't know about all of them, but that's why I put my caveat. The university statement claimed they were outsiders.

Here's that article again:

http://edition.cnn.com/2017/02/01/us...ulos-berkeley/

Excerpt from the article:
"No arrests were made throughout the night."
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Old 3rd February 2017, 03:24 AM   #394
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Originally Posted by Argumemnon View Post
Source?
Heh. Milo believes in nothing, when you get down to it. "Fascinating"? No, he's a paint-by-numbers troll.

Last edited by Mumbles; 3rd February 2017 at 03:26 AM.
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Old 3rd February 2017, 03:34 AM   #395
Puppycow
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Originally Posted by Slings and Arrows View Post
Excerpt from the article:
"No arrests were made throughout the night."
But it also says:
Quote:
Two Berkeley College Republicans "were attacked while conducting an interview" on the campus on Thursday, UC Berkeley also said in a prepared statement. The attackers, who were not affiliated with the university, were taken into custody by UC Berkeley police.
I thought that "taken into custody" meant arrested.
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Old 3rd February 2017, 04:47 AM   #396
Slings and Arrows
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Originally Posted by Puppycow View Post
But it also says:
Two Berkeley College Republicans "were attacked while conducting an interview" on the campus on Thursday, UC Berkeley also said in a prepared statement.

The riot occurred on Wednesday evening. Any attacks that happened the following day (Thursday) is a whole new set of circumstances.

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Old 3rd February 2017, 05:24 AM   #397
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Originally Posted by Puppycow View Post
It was reported that some of them were arrested and they were not students of the university. True, we can't know about all of them, but that's why I put my caveat. The university statement claimed they were outsiders.

Here's that article again:

http://edition.cnn.com/2017/02/01/us...ulos-berkeley/
First of all, I don't believe that all of the troublemakers were unaffiliated with the university. The probability of that seems rather close to zero.

More importantly, however, it's completely irrelevant. It was up to the university (as well as the city) to provide adequate security, and it didn't. Perhaps on purpose. Both the university administrators and the city mayor actually incited protests to some extent as well. Especially the city mayor. I think there is ample evidence that the 1st Amendment rights of Milo, the organizers of his talk, and the people who had tickets to the event were violated by both the university and the city of Berkeley.
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Old 3rd February 2017, 05:29 AM   #398
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Originally Posted by Mumbles View Post
Heh. Milo believes in nothing, when you get down to it. "Fascinating"? No, he's a paint-by-numbers troll.
That's ridiculous. There isn't a progressive pundit around who could hold a candle to Milo in a debate. He's a deeper thinker than any of them. Far more articulate. And funny as hell. He may be a troll part of the time (much of the time actually), but he's certainly not a paint-by-numbers troll.
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Old 3rd February 2017, 05:36 AM   #399
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Originally Posted by sunmaster14 View Post
That's ridiculous. There isn't a progressive pundit around who could hold a candle to Milo in a debate. He's a deeper thinker than any of them. Far more articulate. And funny as hell. He may be a troll part of the time (much of the time actually), but he's certainly not a paint-by-numbers troll.
looks like someone has a crush...
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Old 3rd February 2017, 05:56 AM   #400
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Originally Posted by sunmaster14 View Post
First of all, I don't believe that all of the troublemakers were unaffiliated with the university. The probability of that seems rather close to zero.

More importantly, however, it's completely irrelevant. It was up to the university (as well as the city) to provide adequate security, and it didn't. Perhaps on purpose. Both the university administrators and the city mayor actually incited protests to some extent as well. Especially the city mayor. I think there is ample evidence that the 1st Amendment rights of Milo, the organizers of his talk, and the people who had tickets to the event were violated by both the university and the city of Berkeley.

Add to that, their blatant discrimination against an openly Gay individual (Homophobia). It's time to withhold all federal funds. Why should the taxpayers be forced to fund Berkeley's cesspool of hate and intolerance?
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