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Old 19th April 2017, 11:13 PM   #441
meccanoman
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Originally Posted by ferd burfle View Post
Your continued lectures on the subject of what comprises proper science are both sad and amusing. You have deflected or ignored, with a few exceptions, the most pertinent questions and criticisms of your beloved Mark 10, demonstrating little of the open-mindedness you claim to esteem. IMO a scientist worth the title is one who attempts to kill their own ideas in their infancy so as not to waste their time or others'. I worked with a guy who, if you stuck a pin in his idea, was likely to say "What a glorious defeat!" because he knew it put us that much closer to the right answer.
That's the perception of the scientific MO favoured here and elsewhere by homo interneticus. It possesses a certain parochial charm (notably in cyberspace) but has no practical utility whatsoever in the real world of open-minded, open-ended research, where the chief aim is to generate new testable hypotheses that, right or wrong, generate new data, new thinking, new hypotheses, still more new data etc etc.

PS: Has it not occurred to you that a Model 10, beloved or otherwise, could possibly have required killing one's own ideas along the way through Models 1-9? But the killing was not done from the comfort of an armchair, maybe wiki-aided from a laptop. Each of those Models 1-9 was the subject of its own experimental testing programme in which all preconceptions were laid to one side until the new data were in and current thinking, right or wrong, was re-evaluated. It's called science (the real constructive, model-building/model testing variety).
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Old 20th April 2017, 04:16 AM   #442
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Originally Posted by ferd burfle View Post
Your continued lectures on the subject of what comprises proper science are both sad and amusing. You have deflected or ignored, with a few exceptions, the most pertinent questions and criticisms of your beloved Mark 10, demonstrating little of the open-mindedness you claim to esteem. IMO a scientist worth the title is one who attempts to kill their own ideas in their infancy so as not to waste their time or others'. I worked with a guy who, if you stuck a pin in his idea, was likely to say "What a glorious defeat!" because he knew it put us that much closer to the right answer.
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Old 20th April 2017, 04:28 AM   #443
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Originally Posted by meccanoman View Post
That's the perception of the scientific MO favoured here and elsewhere by homo interneticus. It possesses a certain parochial charm (notably in cyberspace) but has no practical utility whatsoever in the real world of open-minded, open-ended research, where the chief aim is to generate new testable hypotheses that, right or wrong, generate new data, new thinking, new hypotheses, still more new data etc etc.

PS: Has it not occurred to you that a Model 10, beloved or otherwise, could possibly have required killing one's own ideas along the way through Models 1-9? But the killing was not done from the comfort of an armchair, maybe wiki-aided from a laptop. Each of those Models 1-9 was the subject of its own experimental testing programme in which all preconceptions were laid to one side until the new data were in and current thinking, right or wrong, was re-evaluated. It's called science (the real constructive, model-building/model testing variety).
And you are ignoring the fact that plenty of people here are saying that you may very well have a workable model. Are you not actually reading what your respondents write?
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Old 20th April 2017, 06:37 AM   #444
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Originally Posted by meccanoman View Post
That's the perception of the scientific MO favoured here and elsewhere by homo interneticus. It possesses a certain parochial charm (notably in cyberspace) but has no practical utility whatsoever in the real world of open-minded, open-ended research, where the chief aim is to generate new testable hypotheses that, right or wrong, generate new data, new thinking, new hypotheses, still more new data etc etc.
So then why are you wasting your time here among an audience you despise?
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Old 20th April 2017, 10:37 AM   #445
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Originally Posted by abaddon View Post
And you are ignoring the fact that plenty of people here are saying that you may very well have a workable model. Are you not actually reading what your respondents write?
^ Yeah.

Model 10's a good'un. The evidence needs work.
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Old 20th April 2017, 11:17 AM   #446
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Originally Posted by Donn View Post
^ Yeah.

Model 10's a good'un. The evidence needs work.
Thanks Donn. I generally know when I'm getting close (sindonology's control freaks instantly go into overdrive - with the result my site drops out of entry-level search engine listings (e.g under 'shroud of turin' plain and simple) first from google.com (USA) and now google.uk, google.ca etc).

Sindonology is an INDUSTRY that brooks no opposition!!!! Spare a thought for the poor dears: life's getting tougher by the day as sindonology runs out of new pseudoscience with which to bamboozle the media and faithful!
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Old 20th April 2017, 06:13 PM   #447
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Originally Posted by meccanoman View Post
That's the perception of the scientific MO favoured here and elsewhere by homo interneticus. It possesses a certain parochial charm (notably in cyberspace) but has no practical utility whatsoever in the real world of open-minded, open-ended research, where the chief aim is to generate new testable hypotheses that, right or wrong, generate new data, new thinking, new hypotheses, still more new data etc etc.

Your priority seems to be prolongation of an enjoyable pastime. It's not my cup of tea but I can imagine it gives a lot of satisfaction. I doubt the part about open-minded but you have open-ended aplenty.
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Old 20th April 2017, 06:16 PM   #448
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Originally Posted by Garrette View Post
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Excellent, thanks!
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Old 20th April 2017, 06:18 PM   #449
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Originally Posted by ferd burfle View Post
I asked for the conditions for the pictures taken by you; please help me understand what I'm looking at. Presumably it was taken under incident light, was it a tungsten source? Did you use any color correction, a physical or software filter or both? Why is there a rddish or pinkish cast to the image? I assume this was taken with a zoom scope, is that right? At what magnification?





I'm not sure what you mean by half-tone. I believe there are particles present in both images, but they'll never be seen using a zoom scope with a maximum magnification of 50 or 60X. I'm sure you know starch particles are roughly the same size as the width of the individual flax fibers.




No sign of this crust in the STURP tape lift samples, Mark Evans' photos or yours. Could it be because it's simply not there?

Please answer my questions, meccanoman.
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Old 20th April 2017, 07:15 PM   #450
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Originally Posted by dropzone View Post
[...] Leonardo[...] may have been as gay as a tree full of parrots,[....]

You almost made me choke!
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Old 21st April 2017, 01:57 AM   #451
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Originally Posted by ferd burfle View Post
Please answer my questions, meccanoman.
I'll give technical details if there are reasonable grounds for enquiring. In this instance, there's not, since we are merely talking about plain old light microscopy, an adjunct to ordinary eyesight. The only difference is that I saw a sharper image through the eyepiece, but had to replace the latter with solid state electronics in order to get an annoyingly fuzzier image that could be displayed on screen and uploaded to my site and then here in response to a reasonable request.

What you see is what you get - two subsets of fibres, one faintly coloured, the other uncoloured. That's the so-called 'half-tone' effect, an alleged characteristic of Shroud image-bearing threads according to the Mark Evans' so-called photomicrographs (which were strictly speaking only deserving of the description photomacrographs, and indeed would have benefited from (a) higher magnification and (b) some gentle teasing apart of individual fibres to break up the skeins.

Your comment that there was no evidence for encrustation in the tape-lift samples is totally at odds with Rogers' own claims, namely that the body image is not on the linen per se but on a highly superficial impurity coating, starch-derived, with Maillard/melanoidin browning products chromophore, one that is no more than 200-600nm thick, that is detachable when fibres are pulled out of the Mylar adhesive, leaving behind what Rogers described as "ghosts". My model differs in important respects: there are essentially two images. One is detachable solid encrustation which appears to be particulate on the Shroud we see today with added contrast (or 'edge-definition' which I consider to be a type of contrast as per cartoons) and which may or may not be present on a particular image thread. The other is the faint coloration of individual fibres that is probably non-particulate except maybe at exceedingly high magnification, e.g. x1000 (polymeric melanoidins being solids) and is essentially non-detachable, best described as a superficial stain, derived from seepage of a liquid from the initial oven-generated encrustation at high temperature, and which I consider to be the REAL enigmatic, iconic, ghostly permanent Shroud image that separates and indeed polarizes viewers into two factions: miraculists and non-miraculists.
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