ISF Logo   IS Forum
Forum Index Register Members List Events Mark Forums Read Help

Go Back   International Skeptics Forum » General Topics » Religion and Philosophy
 


Welcome to the International Skeptics Forum, where we discuss skepticism, critical thinking, the paranormal and science in a friendly but lively way. You are currently viewing the forum as a guest, which means you are missing out on discussing matters that are of interest to you. Please consider registering so you can gain full use of the forum features and interact with other Members. Registration is simple, fast and free! Click here to register today.
Reply
Old 28th February 2017, 12:07 PM   #201
acbytesla
Penultimate Amazing
 
acbytesla's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 12,116
Originally Posted by The Big Dog View Post
I about choked on my lunch when I read that.

the Freedom From Religion Foundation specifically states that it is "our critical work to promote nontheism."

And you are denying that?

You gave a list of things you claims atheists don't do, most of which they do, as proven.

Oh well, no one ever said it was going to be easy to shake people from their long held belief in their orthodoxy despite the evidence piled up before them.
That still doesn't make it a belief system. You're talking about the tiniest minority of atheists that have put together groups that promote rational thinking. This In contrast to three hundred thousand churches in the US alone. That you so desperately want to turn this into a I know you are but what am I argument doesn’t wash.

Google
be·lief sys·tem
noun
a set of principles or tenets which together form the basis of a religion, philosophy, or moral code.
"the ancient Greek belief system"

Dictionary.com 'belief system'
noun
faith based on a series of beliefs but not formalized into a religion; also, a fixed coherent set of beliefs prevalent in a community or society

Oxford Dictionary 'belief system'
a set of principles or tenets which together form the bas... Meaning, pronunciation, example sentences, and more from Oxford Dictionaries.

Sorry Big Dog, The rejection of a single claim does not constitute a system of beliefs.
__________________
“ A wise man proportions his belief to the evidence. ”
― David Hume

Last edited by acbytesla; 28th February 2017 at 12:08 PM.
acbytesla is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 28th February 2017, 12:19 PM   #202
The Big Dog
Penultimate Amazing
 
The Big Dog's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 18,617
Originally Posted by Slowvehicle View Post
You have yet to even approach demonstrating the "proselytization" about which you complain. (Remember, you made the accusation...)

Are you, in fact, accusing me, personally, of "proselytizing"?

I will accept your public apology.
You; "But seriously--please provide an example, here on the forum, of the "bragging" about which you here complain."

TBD: posts the example to which I was referring.

You: post... well ... whatever that is above, bit of goal post moving, bit of high dudgeon
__________________
don't let your friends deny Soviet Genocide.
The Big Dog is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 28th February 2017, 12:22 PM   #203
The Big Dog
Penultimate Amazing
 
The Big Dog's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 18,617
Quote:
American Atheists is dedicated to working for the civil rights of atheists, promoting separation of state and church, and providing information about atheism
sounds like a belief system, don't it?

Of course it does.
__________________
don't let your friends deny Soviet Genocide.
The Big Dog is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 28th February 2017, 12:24 PM   #204
wareyin
Philosopher
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Posts: 6,006
Originally Posted by The Big Dog View Post
sounds like a belief system, don't it?

Of course it does.
Not if you know what the phrase "belief system" means.
wareyin is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 28th February 2017, 12:31 PM   #205
The Big Dog
Penultimate Amazing
 
The Big Dog's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 18,617
Originally Posted by wareyin View Post
Not if you know what the phrase "belief system" means.
Well, I do, so Bob's your uncle:

http://www.humanreligions.info/religions.html

lots of Atheism on that list, what what?
__________________
don't let your friends deny Soviet Genocide.
The Big Dog is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 28th February 2017, 12:34 PM   #206
wareyin
Philosopher
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Posts: 6,006
Originally Posted by The Big Dog View Post
Well, I do, so Bob's your uncle:

http://www.humanreligions.info/religions.html

lots of Atheism on that list, what what?
Obviously, you do not. But please, keep digging!


What was that earlier in the thread about who was smug, again?

Eta: oh boy, you didn't bother to click on the link for atheism in your source, did you? It contradicts you.

Last edited by wareyin; 28th February 2017 at 12:37 PM.
wareyin is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 28th February 2017, 12:42 PM   #207
The Big Dog
Penultimate Amazing
 
The Big Dog's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 18,617
Originally Posted by wareyin View Post
Obviously, you do not. But please, keep digging!


What was that earlier in the thread about who was smug, again?

Eta: oh boy, you didn't bother to click on the link for atheism in your source, did you? It contradicts you.
The part I liked is where you flatly rejected my source but then went ahead and edited your post to accept my source without deleting the fact that you had rejected it in the first place.

that gave me the warm feeling of bliss!
__________________
don't let your friends deny Soviet Genocide.
The Big Dog is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 28th February 2017, 12:42 PM   #208
Crossbow
Seeking Honesty and Sanity
 
Crossbow's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Charleston, WV
Posts: 10,774
Originally Posted by The Big Dog View Post
Well, I do, so Bob's your uncle:

http://www.humanreligions.info/religions.html

lots of Atheism on that list, what what?
So where is anti-theism proselytism and/or anti-religion proselytism that you are currently bitching about?

By the way, ...

Just in case in your infinite wisdom you cannot recall what it is to "proselytize", then here is a good definition from someone that I am sure that you can trust:

Originally Posted by The Big Dog View Post
anti-theism, anti-religion is absolutely a belief system, that causes people to brag about their "the motivation of trying to get theists to toss belief,' and brag about their so-called successes in doing so.

pros·e·lyt·ize
ˈpräs(ə)ləˌtīz/
verb: convert or attempt to convert (someone) from one religion, belief, or opinion to another.

Hmmm, seems like it is on all fours
__________________
A man's best friend is his dogma.

Last edited by Crossbow; 28th February 2017 at 12:46 PM. Reason: Added a definition for those who may need it.
Crossbow is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 28th February 2017, 12:44 PM   #209
wareyin
Philosopher
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Posts: 6,006
Originally Posted by The Big Dog View Post
The part I liked is where you flatly rejected my source but then went ahead and edited your post to accept my source without deleting the fact that you had rejected it in the first place.

that gave me the warm feeling of bliss!
Your source does not support your claim. Your source says nothing about atheism being a belief system. Your source actually contradicts your claim. So yeah, you still don't understand what a belief system is.
wareyin is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 28th February 2017, 12:47 PM   #210
The Big Dog
Penultimate Amazing
 
The Big Dog's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 18,617
Other things I like are how some folks keep spamming the same nonsense as if the numerous links I provided did not exist.

Another aspect of the belief system (in addition to denial) appears to be the belief that if you do not agree with an answer or link or evidence that the answer, link or evidence was never provided in the first place.

It also appears that Spam would appear to be the official potted meat product of the Belief system.
__________________
don't let your friends deny Soviet Genocide.
The Big Dog is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 28th February 2017, 12:48 PM   #211
The Big Dog
Penultimate Amazing
 
The Big Dog's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 18,617
Originally Posted by wareyin View Post
Your source does not support your claim. Your source says nothing about atheism being a belief system. Your source actually contradicts your claim. So yeah, you still don't understand what a belief system is.


"A List of All Religions and Belief Systems.'

scan down list, find Atheism....

look again at your post...

__________________
don't let your friends deny Soviet Genocide.
The Big Dog is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 28th February 2017, 12:48 PM   #212
The Greater Fool
Master Poster
 
The Greater Fool's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Scottsdale, AZ, USA, North America, Earth, Sol, Milky Way
Posts: 2,944
Originally Posted by The Big Dog View Post
Well, I do, so Bob's your uncle:

http://www.humanreligions.info/religions.html

lots of atheism on that list, what what?
If atheism is in fact a 'belief system' as you claim, other than a lack of belief in, or disbelief in god(s), what other beliefs are part of your claimed 'atheist belief system?'
__________________
- "Who is the Greater Fool? The fool? Or the one arguing with the Fool?" [Various; Uknown]
- "The only way to win is not to play." [Tsig quoting 'War Games']
The Greater Fool is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 28th February 2017, 12:49 PM   #213
The Big Dog
Penultimate Amazing
 
The Big Dog's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 18,617
Originally Posted by The Greater Fool View Post
If atheism is in fact a 'belief system' as you claim, other than a lack of belief in, or disbelief in god(s), what other beliefs are part of your claimed 'atheist belief system?'
criticizing religions.
__________________
don't let your friends deny Soviet Genocide.
The Big Dog is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 28th February 2017, 12:51 PM   #214
Crossbow
Seeking Honesty and Sanity
 
Crossbow's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Charleston, WV
Posts: 10,774
Originally Posted by wareyin View Post
Your source does not support your claim. Your source says nothing about atheism being a belief system. Your source actually contradicts your claim. So yeah, you still don't understand what a belief system is.
Unfortunately, some people do not know even half of the things that they believe they know and yet they are compelled to continually demonstrate their ignorance.

Or as the 'Scarecrow' once famously said:

"Some people without brains do an awful lot of talking!"
__________________
A man's best friend is his dogma.
Crossbow is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 28th February 2017, 12:54 PM   #215
wareyin
Philosopher
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Posts: 6,006
Originally Posted by The Big Dog View Post


"A List of All Religions and Belief Systems.'

scan down list, find Atheism....

look again at your post...

Next step, click on it. I dare you.
wareyin is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 28th February 2017, 12:57 PM   #216
The Big Dog
Penultimate Amazing
 
The Big Dog's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 18,617
Originally Posted by wareyin View Post
Next step, click on it. I dare you.
Wait, so you are walking back your claim that "Your source says nothing about atheism being a belief system" because OBVIOUSLY it specifically lists it as such?

Cool beans!

I already clicked on the link to Atheism, but thanks for the "dare.'
__________________
don't let your friends deny Soviet Genocide.
The Big Dog is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 28th February 2017, 01:06 PM   #217
wareyin
Philosopher
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Posts: 6,006
Originally Posted by The Big Dog View Post
Wait, so you are walking back your claim that "Your source says nothing about atheism being a belief system" because OBVIOUSLY it specifically lists it as such?

Cool beans!

I already clicked on the link to Atheism, but thanks for the "dare.'
Oh, good, so you read the part where he defines atheism as a lack of belief, not a belief system? How about the bit where he calls claims like yours "daft"?


Eta: to make your error even more obvious, this is a quote from your source on atheism: "All humans (and animals, and everything else) are*atheist*until they first learn about the idea of god(s), and come to believe in at least one of them."
Are you still claiming that dogs, trees, babies, rocks, and everything else share a belief system?

Last edited by wareyin; 28th February 2017 at 01:10 PM.
wareyin is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 28th February 2017, 01:09 PM   #218
acbytesla
Penultimate Amazing
 
acbytesla's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 12,116
Originally Posted by The Greater Fool View Post
If atheism is in fact a 'belief system' as you claim, other than a lack of belief in, or disbelief in god(s), what other beliefs are part of your claimed 'atheist belief system?'
Hey Big Dog, do you believe;

That the Earth is flat?
That the Sun revolves around the Earth?
That the moon landings were faked?
That there is a pot of gold at the end of the rainbow?
That chariots move the Sun across the sky every day?
That leprechauns, fairies or Big Foots exist?

Does the rejection of one or all of these things constitute a belief system?

How about 2+2 = 6?
__________________
“ A wise man proportions his belief to the evidence. ”
― David Hume

Last edited by acbytesla; 28th February 2017 at 01:19 PM.
acbytesla is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 28th February 2017, 01:09 PM   #219
The Greater Fool
Master Poster
 
The Greater Fool's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Scottsdale, AZ, USA, North America, Earth, Sol, Milky Way
Posts: 2,944
Originally Posted by The Big Dog View Post
criticizing religions.
So, just pulling it out of your arse, gotcha.
__________________
- "Who is the Greater Fool? The fool? Or the one arguing with the Fool?" [Various; Uknown]
- "The only way to win is not to play." [Tsig quoting 'War Games']
The Greater Fool is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 28th February 2017, 01:14 PM   #220
The Big Dog
Penultimate Amazing
 
The Big Dog's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 18,617
Originally Posted by wareyin View Post
Oh, good, so you read the part where he defines atheism as a lack of belief, not a belief system? How about the bit where he calls claims like yours "daft"?
You mean where he calls claims that Atheism is a"religion" daft. Yeah, i sure saw that! Good golly, it is a damn good thing I didn't make THAT claim!

That is why he wrote "All Religions and Belief Systems," which is, of course, what i said.
__________________
don't let your friends deny Soviet Genocide.
The Big Dog is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 28th February 2017, 01:18 PM   #221
The Big Dog
Penultimate Amazing
 
The Big Dog's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 18,617
Originally Posted by The Greater Fool View Post
So, just pulling it out of your arse, gotcha.
Uh, no just specifically taking it from the Atheists.Org and freedom from religions links I specifically linked up above.

(Wow, we went from presumably serious question to borderline meltdown in record time, there. I know it is hard to have your belief system challenged but let us aspire to not make emotional responses. I try not to, and I have to read nonsense like this)
__________________
don't let your friends deny Soviet Genocide.
The Big Dog is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 28th February 2017, 01:20 PM   #222
ynot
Philosopher
 
ynot's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 7,023
Atheism is no more atheists than science is scientists. Atheists can have all manor of beliefs except for god beliefs. If some atheists want to band together against theism because they believe theism is bad, then that doesn’t make atheism a belief. “Theism is bad” is the belief (if it’s not actually a fact). An atheist believing in Bigfoot doesn’t make atheism a belief, and neither does an atheist believing anything against theism, to suggest it does is childishly silly.
__________________
Rumours of a god’s existence have been greatly exaggerated.

Last edited by ynot; 28th February 2017 at 01:32 PM.
ynot is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 28th February 2017, 01:20 PM   #223
acbytesla
Penultimate Amazing
 
acbytesla's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 12,116
Originally Posted by The Big Dog View Post
You mean where he calls claims that Atheism is a"religion" daft. Yeah, i sure saw that! Good golly, it is a damn good thing I didn't make THAT claim!

That is why he wrote "All Religions and Belief Systems," which is, of course, what i said.
Again, a belief system has to consist of more then the rejection of a SINGLE CLAIM.
__________________
“ A wise man proportions his belief to the evidence. ”
― David Hume
acbytesla is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 28th February 2017, 01:21 PM   #224
Crossbow
Seeking Honesty and Sanity
 
Crossbow's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Charleston, WV
Posts: 10,774
Originally Posted by The Big Dog View Post
You mean where he calls claims that Atheism is a"religion" daft. Yeah, i sure saw that! Good golly, it is a damn good thing I didn't make THAT claim!

That is why he wrote "All Religions and Belief Systems," which is, of course, what i said.
And you also wrote about anti-theism proselytism and/or anti-religion proselytism and you have consistently failed to support that claim just like you have consistently failed to support your claim where God claimed that Jesus is his son.

Failure all the way around.
__________________
A man's best friend is his dogma.
Crossbow is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 28th February 2017, 01:26 PM   #225
The Big Dog
Penultimate Amazing
 
The Big Dog's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 18,617
Originally Posted by acbytesla View Post
Again, a belief system has to consist of more then the rejection of a SINGLE CLAIM.
Just one? Huh, which one to pick, which one to pick....

is this the one?

Quote:
For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.
Oh golly, I hope it ain't that one!
__________________
don't let your friends deny Soviet Genocide.
The Big Dog is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 28th February 2017, 01:32 PM   #226
Ethan Thane Athen
Graduate Poster
 
Ethan Thane Athen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 1,665
Originally Posted by arthwollipot View Post
The tactics can vary. For example, religious evangelists tend to rely more on personal anecdotes and emotional appeals. Antireligious evangelists tend to rely more on ridicule and name-calling.
I'm probably a bit of an antireligious evangelist and I don't tend to use ridicule or name-calling. My usual approach is to ask people to describe what they believe without using socially loaded words like god, Jesus or heaven. It can be very effective as they realise how silly it sounds without words that they are conditioned to allow to bypass their reasoning.

NB I don't force this on people - only those who want to discuss it.
Ethan Thane Athen is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 28th February 2017, 01:35 PM   #227
The Greater Fool
Master Poster
 
The Greater Fool's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Scottsdale, AZ, USA, North America, Earth, Sol, Milky Way
Posts: 2,944
Originally Posted by The Big Dog View Post
Uh, no just specifically taking it from the Atheists.Org and freedom from religions links I specifically linked up above.

(Wow, we went from presumably serious question to borderline meltdown in record time, there. I know it is hard to have your belief system challenged but let us aspire to not make emotional responses. I try not to, and I have to read nonsense like this)
OK, from your link show me where that is a 'belief' of atheism.

ETA: Specifically, this belief:
Originally Posted by The Big Dog View Post
criticizing religions.
__________________
- "Who is the Greater Fool? The fool? Or the one arguing with the Fool?" [Various; Uknown]
- "The only way to win is not to play." [Tsig quoting 'War Games']

Last edited by The Greater Fool; 28th February 2017 at 01:37 PM.
The Greater Fool is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 28th February 2017, 01:35 PM   #228
fishbob
Seasonally Disaffected
 
fishbob's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Chilly Undieville
Posts: 6,809
Originally Posted by The Big Dog View Post
I about choked on my lunch when I read that.

the Freedom From Religion Foundation specifically states that it is "our critical work to promote nontheism."

And you are denying that?

You gave a list of things you claims atheists don't do, most of which they do, as proven.

Oh well, no one ever said it was going to be easy to shake people from their long held belief in their orthodoxy despite the evidence piled up before them.
Promoting non-theism is mostly about getting theists to leave the rest of us the hell alone. Why is it that leaving the rest of us alone is too much to ask?
__________________
"When you believe in things you don't understand, then you suffer . . . " - Stevie Wonder.
"I find that a complete lack of self-awareness really helps to numb the pain." A. Trumpkin
I hate bigots.
fishbob is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 28th February 2017, 01:36 PM   #229
The Big Dog
Penultimate Amazing
 
The Big Dog's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 18,617
Originally Posted by The Greater Fool View Post
OK, from your link show me where that is a 'belief' of atheism.
sure

http://radicalatheist.com/what-do-atheists-believe-3/
__________________
don't let your friends deny Soviet Genocide.
The Big Dog is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 28th February 2017, 01:37 PM   #230
acbytesla
Penultimate Amazing
 
acbytesla's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 12,116
Originally Posted by The Big Dog View Post
Just one? Huh, which one to pick, which one to pick....

is this the one?



Oh golly, I hope it ain't that one!
How about a deity? That you can add stuff to it means nothing.
__________________
“ A wise man proportions his belief to the evidence. ”
― David Hume
acbytesla is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 28th February 2017, 01:39 PM   #231
The Big Dog
Penultimate Amazing
 
The Big Dog's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 18,617
Originally Posted by fishbob View Post
Promoting non-theism is mostly about getting theists to leave the rest of us the hell alone. Why is it that leaving the rest of us alone is too much to ask?
ahhh, it is the mostly part that is the catch, ain't it?

Ordinarily I use atheists to describe people who are get along types, and want to be left alone as you call it; while the more evangelical types I refer to as anti-theists, or anti-religionists.

but i am cool like that, and as we see not all 'atheists" are not so chill.
__________________
don't let your friends deny Soviet Genocide.
The Big Dog is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 28th February 2017, 01:41 PM   #232
Thor 2
Graduate Poster
 
Thor 2's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2016
Location: Brisbane, Aust.
Posts: 1,903
Just to get this back on track and if we look at the flip side again, the effects of theism are well known and recorded in history.

In recent history it can be claimed that the safety of children is compromised by theism, if we look at the results of the investigations into child sex abuse of late. The Catholic Church being the worst offender.

It occurs to me that Catholics in general have been let off lightly here.

Muslims generally in our society are called to account for the actions of a small number of extremists. Clerical leaders and lay Muslims are asked to condemn the actions of these few to distance themselves from blame.

Where is the call for Catholics to do the same? The damage done by the Catholic Church is far far greater.

Would like to get some input from The Big Dog here, once he has gotten over defining atheism as a belief system that is.
Thor 2 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 28th February 2017, 01:41 PM   #233
ynot
Philosopher
 
ynot's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 7,023
Originally Posted by Ethan Thane Athen View Post
I'm probably a bit of an antireligious evangelist and I don't tend to use ridicule or name-calling. My usual approach is to ask people to describe what they believe without using socially loaded words like god, Jesus or heaven. It can be very effective as they realise how silly it sounds without words that they are conditioned to allow to bypass their reasoning.

NB I don't force this on people - only those who want to discuss it.
I do similar but haven’t considered asking them not to use their comfort/confirmation words. I’ll try it but don’t think they would be capable of doing so. I’m surprised that you say they can and have done so with you.
__________________
Rumours of a god’s existence have been greatly exaggerated.

Last edited by ynot; 28th February 2017 at 01:49 PM.
ynot is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 28th February 2017, 01:43 PM   #234
The Greater Fool
Master Poster
 
The Greater Fool's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Scottsdale, AZ, USA, North America, Earth, Sol, Milky Way
Posts: 2,944
Originally Posted by The Big Dog View Post
1. Radical Atheists, really? So, we can use Westboro Baptists as what Christian doctrine is?

2. Quote the line that says what you claimed, that a belief of atheists is "criticizing religions"
__________________
- "Who is the Greater Fool? The fool? Or the one arguing with the Fool?" [Various; Uknown]
- "The only way to win is not to play." [Tsig quoting 'War Games']
The Greater Fool is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 28th February 2017, 01:47 PM   #235
The Big Dog
Penultimate Amazing
 
The Big Dog's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 18,617
Originally Posted by The Greater Fool View Post
1. Radical Atheists, really? So, we can use Westboro Baptists as what Christian doctrine is?

2. Quote the line that says what you claimed, that a belief of atheists is "criticizing religions"
You thought that was Radical? I'll be damned, what part did you find "radical"?

As i mentioned, the part about criticizing religion is here: https://www.atheists.org/about-us

Enjoy!
__________________
don't let your friends deny Soviet Genocide.
The Big Dog is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 28th February 2017, 01:48 PM   #236
The Greater Fool
Master Poster
 
The Greater Fool's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Scottsdale, AZ, USA, North America, Earth, Sol, Milky Way
Posts: 2,944
Originally Posted by The Big Dog View Post
You thought that was Radical? I'll be damned, what part did you find "radical"?

As i mentioned, the part about criticizing religion is here: https://www.atheists.org/about-us

Enjoy!
Quote the line. 3rd Request.

ETA: Look at the link in your reply, it was from RadicalAtheists. Pay attention to what you post.
__________________
- "Who is the Greater Fool? The fool? Or the one arguing with the Fool?" [Various; Uknown]
- "The only way to win is not to play." [Tsig quoting 'War Games']
The Greater Fool is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 28th February 2017, 01:49 PM   #237
The Big Dog
Penultimate Amazing
 
The Big Dog's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 18,617
Originally Posted by Thor 2 View Post
Just to get this back on track and if we look at the flip side again, the effects of theism are well known and recorded in history.
Slow clap... say I gotta say that was a HECK of an attempt to change the subject!

lolz, c'mon it is not going that bad in here for the atheists!
__________________
don't let your friends deny Soviet Genocide.
The Big Dog is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 28th February 2017, 01:50 PM   #238
Thor 2
Graduate Poster
 
Thor 2's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2016
Location: Brisbane, Aust.
Posts: 1,903
Originally Posted by Ethan Thane Athen View Post
I'm probably a bit of an antireligious evangelist and I don't tend to use ridicule or name-calling. My usual approach is to ask people to describe what they believe without using socially loaded words like god, Jesus or heaven. It can be very effective as they realise how silly it sounds without words that they are conditioned to allow to bypass their reasoning.

NB I don't force this on people - only those who want to discuss it.

Sounds a lot like the approach of Peter Boghossian (Manual for Creating Atheists). Getting the subject to avoid using the buzzwords could be problematic however.
Thor 2 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 28th February 2017, 01:53 PM   #239
The Big Dog
Penultimate Amazing
 
The Big Dog's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 18,617
Originally Posted by The Greater Fool View Post
Quote the line. 3rd Request.

ETA: Look at the link in your reply, it was from RadicalAtheists. Pay attention to what you post.
Yeah, I get that friend, you see I had already mentioned that the Criticism of religion came from one place, and then you asked me another whole question, A DIFFERENT QUESTION, ya see, and I linked to another website to address that question.

So, two answers, two links.

And here i thought i was being generous. Oh well... ya didn't read the earlier link and ya ain't gonna read the new, so...
__________________
don't let your friends deny Soviet Genocide.
The Big Dog is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 28th February 2017, 01:53 PM   #240
acbytesla
Penultimate Amazing
 
acbytesla's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 12,116
Originally Posted by The Big Dog View Post
ahhh, it is the mostly part that is the catch, ain't it?

Ordinarily I use atheists to describe people who are get along types, and want to be left alone as you call it; while the more evangelical types I refer to as anti-theists, or anti-religionists.

but i am cool like that, and as we see not all 'atheists" are not so chill.
Yea you'd rather we shut up and allow you to peddle nonsense. Don't you just hate the little girl who said the Emperor wasn't wearing clothes?
__________________
“ A wise man proportions his belief to the evidence. ”
― David Hume
acbytesla is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Reply

International Skeptics Forum » General Topics » Religion and Philosophy

Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 02:20 AM.
Powered by vBulletin. Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
© 2014, TribeTech AB. All Rights Reserved.
This forum began as part of the James Randi Education Foundation (JREF). However, the forum now exists as
an independent entity with no affiliation with or endorsement by the JREF, including the section in reference to "JREF" topics.

Disclaimer: Messages posted in the Forum are solely the opinion of their authors.