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Tags donald trump , lying charges , Trump controversies , Trump-Russia connections , US-Russia relations , vladimir putin

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Old 22nd April 2017, 08:25 AM   #561
Cl1mh4224rd
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Originally Posted by JihadJane View Post
The CIA and NSA have not claimed that something DID happen. They have expressed "high confidence" that it could have happened.

This is the sort of bizarre attitude that would allow someone to claim that the remaining 5% of a claim with "95% confidence" means that the entire claim can be dismissed without effort.

I'm not pretending that the CIA's and FBI's confidence is that high, of course, but you're playing extremely loose with their words.

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Old 22nd April 2017, 09:49 AM   #562
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Originally Posted by Cl1mh4224rd View Post
This is the sort of bizarre attitude that would allow someone to claim that the remaining 5% of a claim with "95% confidence" means that the entire claim can be dismissed without effort.

I'm not pretending that the CIA's and FBI's confidence is that high, of course, but you're playing extremely loose with their words.
But this is someone who claims that Russia didn't invade the Crimea
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Old 23rd April 2017, 02:48 AM   #563
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There seems to have been a lack of strategy and strategic vision and war plan in Afghanistan, apart from having a proxy war with Russia and that drunken peasant Yeltsin, if not Putin. This is an interesting opinion on this website. This is part of it. I don't know if Trump will seize the situation like a man:

www.csis.org/analysis/Afghanistan-death-strategy

Quote:
The Assumptions behind a Strategy that Has Been a Long Time Dying

The reality, however, is that the strategy developed under General Stanley McCrystal has been dying for a long time and for many more reasons than the growing distrust between U.S. and ISAF personnel and the Afghans. It was already clear in 2009 that the odds of success were no better than 50 percent.
The key reasons shaping uncertainty as to whether the mission could be accomplished—whether it would be possible to create an Afghanistan that could largely stand on its own and be free of any major enclaves of terrorists or violent extremists—went far beyond the problems created by the insurgents.
It was clear that there were four roughly equal threats to success, of which the Afghan Taliban, Haqqani, and Hekmatyar were only the first. The second was the corruption and incompetence of the Afghan government. The third was the role of Pakistan and its tolerance and support of insurgent sanctuaries. The fourth was the United States and its allies.

This fourth threat was compounded by years of failing to focus on Afghanistan while the United States focused on Iraq. It was compounded by the weak, underfunded, and grossly undermanned effort to build Afghan forces, by the corrupting flood of unmanaged and unaudited military spending and aid, and by the lack of effective civilian aid workers and well-managed and coordinated efforts.

The response was to hope that the problems in the administration of President Hamid Karzai, and throughout the Afghan government, could be corrected after what was assumed to be an Afghan presidential election where Karzai would glide to power without major incidents. It was also assumed that aid and training to the Pakistani forces, and the growing internal threat they faced from the Pakistani Taliban, would lead Pakistan to clear the sanctuaries held by Afghan insurgents, as much out of their own interest as a result of U.S. and allied prodding.

It was to build up enough U.S. forces to clear and hold the critical populated areas and districts in the south and east, while keeping allied forces at least at their existing level. It was to rush in trainers and advisers in sufficient numbers to build an effective mix of Afghan security forces. It was to reform the aid and spending process to create integrated civil-military efforts and to deploy enough new aid workers to allow the Afghan government to hold and build in the same the critical populated areas and districts that were the focus of the military campaign.

The critical underpinning assumption behind all of these efforts was that they would be properly resourced for as long as it took to determine whether the new strategy could work. It was that the timing of U.S. and allied efforts would be “conditions based” and not subject to some arbitrary deadline.

The Reasons for a Slow Death......
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Old 24th April 2017, 05:38 AM   #564
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Originally Posted by CapelDodger View Post
If any lesson is to be learnt it's that air power alone does not win wars, but it's a zombie concept that just will not lie down.
That "zombie concept" from 75 years ago?

I don't know where you go for current military strategy, but I'm pretty sure our military has been aware of that for many decades now.

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Old 24th April 2017, 09:03 AM   #565
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Quote:
The Senate Intelligence Committee has been solely focused on reviewing the Intelligence Community Assessment. A declassified version was made public in January. The public assessment did not provide any substantial evidence that Trump or his team had worked with Russia in any way, but rather, came to the conclusion that Russia wanted Trump to be victorious in the general election.
'The Senate’s investigation into Trump’s Russia ties is staffed by only 7 people, part-time
Don't expect many results from the investigation over the next few years
'
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Old 24th April 2017, 11:27 AM   #566
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Originally Posted by Mycroft View Post
That "zombie concept" from 75 years ago?

I don't know where you go for current military strategy, but I'm pretty sure our military has been aware of that for many decades now.

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One would hope so, although the propensity for the military to fight next year's wars with last year's strategies leaves me somewhat less than optimistic.

However, the belief that air power alone can win ground wars is still quite common among the average citizens.

How often do you hear or read about people saying; Well, all we have to do is just bomb the **** out of them." or something to that effect.?

And politicians are as guilty of this sort of fallacy as the rest of them. Maybe more so, because they are trying to win votes, and don't mind at all lying to their constituents if they think it makes them sound good.

Would our military bomb the hell out of somewhere just because their politician bosses demanded that they do it, even though they knew perfectly well that it would serve no useful military purpose and might even make matters worse?

That isn't the sort of thing which has given them much pause in past conflicts.
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Old 24th April 2017, 03:33 PM   #567
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Originally Posted by Mycroft View Post
That "zombie concept" from 75 years ago?
Over a century, actually.

Quote:
I don't know where you go for current military strategy, but I'm pretty sure our military has been aware of that for many decades now.
I'm pretty sure there's another school of thought present in the military which may one day regain the ascendency. It's always popular with politicians because it promises to be relatively cheap, in blood and treasure.
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Old 25th April 2017, 02:07 AM   #568
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Originally Posted by jimbob View Post
But this is someone who claims that Russia didn't invade the Crimea

Perhaps you'd like to provide some photographic evidence of this alleged invasion.
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Old 25th April 2017, 04:35 AM   #569
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Originally Posted by Cl1mh4224rd View Post
This is the sort of bizarre attitude that would allow someone to claim that the remaining 5% of a claim with "95% confidence" means that the entire claim can be dismissed without effort.

I'm not pretending that the CIA's and FBI's confidence is that high, of course, but you're playing extremely loose with their words.
The reason members of the Intelligence Community choose that language, and not getting more definite, is that the people they normally report to are either complicit and focus of their investigation, or are not willing to want to hear what the IC have to say because it leads to destroying their own power base.
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Old 26th April 2017, 01:22 AM   #570
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Amusing to see a discussion about dictators in which everyone assumes that the USA isn't the biggest dictator the world has ever seen. No one here is talking about the dangers of appeasing US militarism.

Quote:
The only way to stop the United States’ aggression is to get rid of dollar addiction, a Kremlin advisor said on Friday.

"The United States has no tools to make all others use the dollar other than a truncheon...

In the period of WWI and WWII, Britain acted as a provoker in a bid to keep its global leadership. Now the United States is doing the same. And Trump expresses these interests," he said.

Kremlin Advisor Reveals 'Cure For US Aggression'
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Old 26th April 2017, 03:31 AM   #571
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As global financial reserve currency of first resort, the dollar experiences a level of demand that is the sum of:

(1) Investment flows. The dollar is bought to invest in US-based securities and assets.
(2) Goods flows: The dollar is bought to pay for US goods and services.
(3) Transactions in dollars. The dollar is bought to pay third parties who price in dollars (oil).

(1) and (3) are what can sustain a currency and keep it from devaluing due to a trade deficit (trade demand for dollars is less than dollars sold to buy imports). There has been talk for some time about pricing oil in some other currency, but the lack of a viable alternative has largely made it a goal without a means to accomplish it. As for being a safe investment haven, only China could displace the US, but that would be once it had thoroughly shown its ability to govern markets in a fairly disinterested and sound manner. This could happen, but has not yet.

No conspiracies are needed to explain this. The US produced a whopping 50% of world GDP following WWII, ensconcing the dollar as the new reserve currency, replacing the British pound, which represented the largest investment safe haven (London) up until that time. No natural economic forces have acted to change this so far.
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Old 26th April 2017, 03:48 AM   #572
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Huh. So Flynn's Turkish connections may in fact be a Russian connection. Again.

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Old 27th April 2017, 08:45 AM   #573
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Mod WarningRemoved the whole WWII discussion. Please do not continue that here.
Posted By:kmortis
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Old 27th April 2017, 01:54 PM   #574
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Trump just blamed Obama for not vetting Flynn properly. Guaranteed, behind the scenes GOP leaders are rolling their eyes over this one.
It's not that Trump tries to blame other people for his mistakes,...that is pretty common behavior with politicans of all stripes...but that Trump is so incompent in doing it.
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Old 27th April 2017, 02:06 PM   #575
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Originally Posted by dudalb View Post
Trump just blamed Obama for not vetting Flynn properly. Guaranteed, behind the scenes GOP leaders are rolling their eyes over this one.
It's not that Trump tries to blame other people for his mistakes,...that is pretty common behavior with politicans of all stripes...but that Trump is so incompent in doing it.
Obama also fired Flynn. He didn't force the Hair to associate with him or appoint him NSA. What an incompetent fool.
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Old 28th April 2017, 10:31 AM   #576
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Amusing scene on Russian TV:

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If you don't get why it goes to the core of the "Russian propaganda" bruhaha, just analyze the scene and ask yourself when you last saw a patriotic Russian journalist with decent English skills invited to a prominent Western pre$$titute media talk show, and why that is.
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Old 28th April 2017, 11:05 AM   #577
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Originally Posted by Childlike Empress View Post
Amusing scene on Russian TV:

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I AGREE

If you don't get why it goes to the core of the "Russian propaganda" bruhaha, just analyze the scene and ask yourself when you last saw a patriotic Russian journalist with decent English skills invited to a prominent Western pre$$titute media talk show, and why that is.
Is it because all the "patriotic" Russian journalists with decent English skills are employed by Russian propaganda outlets? You know, like RT, Sputnik news or Fort Russ?

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Old 28th April 2017, 11:22 AM   #578
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Originally Posted by Mycroft View Post
Is it because all the "patriotic" Russian journalists with decent English skills are employed by Russian propaganda outlets? You know, like RT, Sputnik news or Fort Russ?

Of course not. They could make good entertainment, like the Newsweek guy and his fellow travellers who appear frequently on Russian TV. Why let that opportunity go?
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Old 28th April 2017, 06:37 PM   #579
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Caught in another big fat lie: Trump, Sessions and Pence. They knew all about Flynn, then just before firing him they claimed they never knew. Spicer repeats the lie that they all relied on Obama era security clearance.

This is from February: White House claims about Flynn, Russia scandal draw fresh scrutiny
Quote:
According to multiple reports, the Justice Department informed the White House in late January – at least two weeks ago – about its concerns that Michael Flynn could be subject to blackmail from Russian officials. A Washington Post report last night added an interesting detail:
A senior Trump administration official said before Flynn’s resignation that the White House was aware of the matter, adding that “we’ve been working on this for weeks.”
Hmm. So the Trump White House has known for weeks about Flynn’s apparent lies, and Trump aides have spent weeks working on forcing Flynn out of the administration. But as recently as Friday, the president himself was completely in the dark about the controversy?
Drip drip drip ... Maddow is on the case.

April 25th: Russians behind payments for Flynn's work for Turkey: Report

Last night: Subject of Flynn seems to panic Trump and his allies

Can't find a link yet to tonight's show where she's outlined details of all the times Trump, Pence and Sessions were briefed about Flynn, followed by weeks later when they denied it all.
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Old 28th April 2017, 06:50 PM   #580
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
Can't find a link yet to tonight's show where she's outlined details of all the times Trump, Pence and Sessions were briefed about Flynn, followed by weeks later when they denied it all.
.@maddow reports: NBC News has learned both the Trump transition and the White House *did* perform a background check on Michael Flynn.
Video in the link. Trump admin was aware of his dealings with Turkey/Russia and appointed him NSA anyway.
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Old 28th April 2017, 08:03 PM   #581
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She lost me with the tax return fiasco. She's no more trustworthy a source than britebart as far as I'm concerned
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Old 28th April 2017, 08:07 PM   #582
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Originally Posted by NoahFence View Post
She lost me with the tax return fiasco. She's no more trustworthy a source than britebart as far as I'm concerned
Yeah, that was one of her low moments. I'm not a huge fan of Madow's show. She often takes too long and includes too many irrelevant sidetracks before getting to the point.

But sometimes that long lead up actually does cover point by point something relevant to the punchline. That was the case tonight.
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Old 28th April 2017, 08:07 PM   #583
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Originally Posted by NoahFence View Post
She lost me with the tax return fiasco. She's no more trustworthy a source than britebart as far as I'm concerned
I have same feelings about any Steele dossiers given that no one has provided evidence to substantiate much there (like placing Trump crew in Prague).
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Old 28th April 2017, 08:10 PM   #584
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Originally Posted by BobTheCoward View Post
I have same feelings about any Steele dossiers given that no one has provided evidence to substantiate much there (like placing Trump crew in Prague).
Did you quit paying attention after the first challenge of that material?

Because except for the golden showers, even the CIA is treating the material as credible.
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Old 28th April 2017, 08:13 PM   #585
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
Did you quit paying attention after the first challenge of that material?

Because except for the golden showers, even the CIA is treating the material as credible.
The CIA treating it as credible, and the CIA publicly presenting evidence to confirm those claims are two different things. I try not to accept claims of fact based on secrets. Especially from an organization with so little credibility.
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Old 28th April 2017, 10:41 PM   #586
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Originally Posted by JihadJane View Post
Ugh. Now, if we compare that to the force investigating, say, Benghazi...

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With a two-year budget of $1.2 million and such a small staff, the resources devoted to the Senate intelligence committee’s Russia investigation pale in comparison to those of other high-profile probes. The House Select Committee on Benghazi, for example, had 46 staffers and spent as much as $3.6 million a year.
Or what were apparently 12 full-time staffers for Hillary's e-mails...

Well, it's to the point where perhaps one should wonder whether Republican Congressmen were somehow involved, when they're acting like this.
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Old 29th April 2017, 02:10 AM   #587
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Originally Posted by NoahFence View Post
She lost me with the tax return fiasco. She's no more trustworthy a source than britebart as far as I'm concerned
Andrea Mitchell is the one that did the reporting. Maddow is just covering it on her show.
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Old 29th April 2017, 02:22 AM   #588
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What about strategic ability?
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Old 29th April 2017, 11:06 AM   #589
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Originally Posted by NoahFence View Post
She lost me with the tax return fiasco. She's no more trustworthy a source than britebart as far as I'm concerned
The "fiasco" being that she didn't have very much, not that what she had wasn't true. Why would that make her less trustworthy?
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Old 29th April 2017, 12:01 PM   #590
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Originally Posted by Mycroft View Post
The "fiasco" being that she didn't have very much, not that what she had wasn't true. Why would that make her less trustworthy?
It probably wasn't even her fault but rather a programming decision to play it up bigger than it was.
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Old 29th April 2017, 12:53 PM   #591
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Originally Posted by Mycroft View Post
The "fiasco" being that she didn't have very much, not that what she had wasn't true. Why would that make her less trustworthy?
Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
It probably wasn't even her fault but rather a programming decision to play it up bigger than it was.
Yes, Maddow just sent two tweets, neither of which overstated the finding. The rest was massive retweeting and MSNBC making it a big production by announcing it everywhere and putting up a countdown clock. The disappointment was due to expectations that it would show him paying little or no taxes, and it isn't really fair to hold Maddow responsible for that expectation. Whatever it showed was newsworthy, and it turns out that the return is important after all: We know for that year at least, Trump paid the alternative minimum tax which he wants to eliminate, and that the "reform" plan he outlined would have saved him tens of millions of dollars. This year, it's probably much more, since he's so blatantly capitalizing on his office.
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Old 29th April 2017, 01:20 PM   #592
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Originally Posted by Mycroft View Post
The "fiasco" being that she didn't have very much, not that what she had wasn't true. Why would that make her less trustworthy?
Moreover, Media Matters just had an article pointing out that what WAS in those tax returns is even more significant now that he's shown his plan for tax reform. For example, his plan to eliminate the alternative minimum tax. In the tax return we've seen, he paid $31 mil in the alternative minimum tax.

Coincidence? Or self-serving?

How much of his tax plan makes sense in the context of his taxes?
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Old 29th April 2017, 01:25 PM   #593
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Moved to Trump thread, not Russia related.
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Old 29th April 2017, 01:28 PM   #594
NoahFence
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Originally Posted by Mycroft View Post
The "fiasco" being that she didn't have very much, not that what she had wasn't true. Why would that make her less trustworthy?
It was click-bait.
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Old 29th April 2017, 06:03 PM   #595
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UK spy documents: Trump Organization paid Russian hackers who took orders from Putin

Quote:
Last December, the U.K. government was reportedly given extensive records of Trump campaign officials’ interactions with the Kremlin.

The Guardian reported former MI6 agent Christopher Steele’s infamous dossier about possible collusion between the Trump campaign and Russia was first given to the UK intelligence services. These documents reportedly contain records of payments from the Trump campaign to banks of Russian cyber trolls tasked with spreading disinformation ahead of the 2016 election.
Obviously fake news. No way in hell Trump would pay a contractor without being forced to by court order.
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Old 29th April 2017, 06:27 PM   #596
CapelDodger
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Originally Posted by pgwenthold View Post
Moreover, Media Matters just had an article pointing out that what WAS in those tax returns is even more significant now that he's shown his plan for tax reform. For example, his plan to eliminate the alternative minimum tax. In the tax return we've seen, he paid $31 mil in the alternative minimum tax.

Coincidence? Or self-serving?
Not self-serving at all. It serves lots of his family and friends and their families and friends, and what could be less self-serving - more sacrificiial, really - than that?
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Old 29th April 2017, 06:31 PM   #597
Skeptic Ginger
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Originally Posted by Stacko View Post
UK spy documents: Trump Organization paid Russian hackers who took orders from Putin

Obviously fake news. No way in hell Trump would pay a contractor without being forced to by court order.
I'm going to wait a bit more for this to pan out. I did find the dossier to be credible whether Trump's into golden showers or not.

But what about the timing. When was the DNC hacked? Anyone know? Is it consistent that it was after these meetings?:

Quote:
Steele outlined how four Trump campaign representatives traveled to Prague in the Czech Republic in August or September to have “secret discussions with Kremlin representatives and associated operators/hackers.” The group discussed how they would pay hackers for breaking into the Democratic Party’s computers and developing a “contingency plans for covering up operations.”
Or were they paying for the files that were already hacked? Or tying to get the hackers to find more of Clinton's emails?

This is pretty damning in that the report is about court documents. Who has filed what at this point? Anyone know that yet?

Last edited by Skeptic Ginger; 29th April 2017 at 06:32 PM.
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Old 29th April 2017, 11:27 PM   #598
IIIClovisIII
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Originally Posted by Childlike Empress View Post
Amusing scene on Russian TV:

YouTube Video This video is not hosted by the ISF. The ISF can not be held responsible for the suitability or legality of this material. By clicking the link below you agree to view content from an external website.
I AGREE

If you don't get why it goes to the core of the "Russian propaganda" bruhaha, just analyze the scene and ask yourself when you last saw a patriotic Russian journalist with decent English skills invited to a prominent Western pre$$titute media talk show, and why that is.

I just think it's interesting how Russians with good English skills largely aren't blindly patriotic to the Putin regime, at least the ones I know.

Perhaps it shouldn't be so surprising.

Of course, the govt there has to vet the interviewee before they talk to the free Western media talk show they are taking advantage of.

No wonder we usually see prominent faces like this:

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Old 29th April 2017, 11:54 PM   #599
Childlike Empress
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Originally Posted by IIIClovisIII View Post
I just think it's interesting how Russians with good English skills largely aren't blindly patriotic to the Putin regime, at least the ones I know.

Perhaps it shouldn't be so surprising.

Not surprising indeed (substituting "blindly patriotic" with "not openly hostile and arrested with Navalny and his four buddies").
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Old 30th April 2017, 12:42 AM   #600
JihadJane
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
I'm going to wait a bit more for this to pan out. I did find the dossier to be credible whether Trump's into golden showers or not.

But what about the timing. When was the DNC hacked? Anyone know? Is it consistent that it was after these meetings?:



Or were they paying for the files that were already hacked? Or tying to get the hackers to find more of Clinton's emails?

This is pretty damning in that the report is about court documents. Who has filed what at this point? Anyone know that yet?
We don't even know that the DNC was "hacked".
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