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Tags donald trump , mental illness issues , psychiatry incidents , psychiatry issues , Trump controversies

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Old 2nd January 2019, 05:42 PM   #1161
theprestige
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Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
The Yale group released their opinion in April of 2017. Noel Casler didn't make his allegation concerning Trump known until this month so how could the Yale group take it into consideration?
Then they must have gotten their indications of Trump's drug abuse somewhere else. Probably the same place they got all the other information they used to make their diagnosis at a distance. Which leads us to the conclusion that either their diagnosis is not as informed and accurate as we're meant to believe, or newyorkguy is profoundly mistaken about Trump's drug abuse.

Last edited by theprestige; 2nd January 2019 at 05:43 PM.
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Old 2nd January 2019, 06:43 PM   #1162
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Originally Posted by newyorkguy View Post
I was thinking of this:
Quote:
[Former Apprentice staffer Noel] Casler noted that Trump "can't read" and promptly gets "really nervous" when confronted with cue cards. "He's a speed freak," Casler said. "He crushes up his Adderall and he sniffs it because he can't read and he gets really nervous when he has to read cue cards. I'm not kidding. This is true." Link
This is true. Is it? I don't know but it would explain a lot.
Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
The Yale group doesn't say anything about drug abuse. Their diagnosis is straight NPD.

One assumes they considered the report you cited, and discarded it. Why do you think it has merit, when the Yale group does not?
Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
The Yale group released their opinion in April of 2017. Noel Casler didn't make his allegation concerning Trump known until this month so how could the Yale group take it into consideration?
Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
Then they must have gotten their indications of Trump's drug abuse somewhere else. Probably the same place they got all the other information they used to make their diagnosis at a distance. Which leads us to the conclusion that either their diagnosis is not as informed and accurate as we're meant to believe, or newyorkguy is profoundly mistaken about Trump's drug abuse.
You wondered why the Yale group did not consider "the report (newyorkguy cited", which was Casler's claim of Trump's Adderall use. I pointed out that Casler's claim didn't come out until well after the Yale group's letter was published. You then said "Then they must have gotten their indications of Trump's drug abuse somewhere else." But as you rightly pointed out earlier, the Yale group never mentioned drug use so what indications of drug use by the Yale group are you referring to? Additionally, newyorkguy made no claims that Trump was using drugs, only that, if true, it would explain a lot.
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Old 4th January 2019, 02:35 AM   #1163
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Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
newyorkguy made no claims that Trump was using drugs, only that, if true, it would explain a lot.
And he was.

The Best Theory of 1992: Donald Trump Took Amphetamine-Like Diet Pills
Quote:
Dr. Greenberg believed the cure for “metabolic imbalance” (not an actual medical disorder) was Tenuate Dospan, a diet drug similar to dexedrine with known side effects that include “confusions” and “hallucinations,” according to the NIH. It also gives you an amphetamine-like buzz. This is all probably why it’s only supposed to be prescribed on a short-term basis, as opposed to the multiple-monthlong regimens Dr. Greenberg allegedly dosed out...

In the controversial 1993 Trump biography Lost Tycoon, author Harry Hurt attributed a steady stream diet pill habit to “Donald’s mood swings” and “his fits of distemper.” Per Hurt:

Donald was so delighted with the results that he started recommending Dr. Greenberg’s treatments to his brother Robert, various friends, and celebrity acquaintances such as Diana Ross. The diet drugs, which he took in pill form, not only curbed his appetite but gave him a feeling of euphoria and unlimited energy. The medical literature warned that some potentially dangerous side effects could result from long-term usage; they included anxiety, insomnia, and delusions of grandeur. According to several Trump Organization insiders, Donald exhibited all these ominous symptoms of diet drug usage, and then some.

“The first thing I would do when I got to the office in the morning,” recalled one former vice-president, “was to go see Norma Foerderer and ask her, ‘Is this a Dr. Greenberg day?’ If she said yes, I would do everything I could to stay out of Donald’s way.”
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Old 4th January 2019, 12:47 PM   #1164
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How can anyone watch this guy's press conference going on right now -- in which he has said the government shutdown could go on for "months or years" -- and not think he's radically delusional?
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Old 4th January 2019, 12:59 PM   #1165
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Originally Posted by Roger Ramjets View Post
That would explain how he keeps his svelte "239" lbs figure!
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Old 4th January 2019, 01:04 PM   #1166
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Originally Posted by Bob001 View Post
How can anyone watch this guy's press conference going on right now -- in which he has said the government shutdown could go on for "months or years" -- and not think he's radically delusional?
I just watched the one he gave a few minutes ago. He was all over the place using his typical 12 year old level vocabulary and syntax. And a not too intelligent 12 year old at that. He makes me cringe.

It could 'go on for months or years'? If so, the 700,000+ workers who aren't getting paid will have to quit and find other jobs. He'll probably then declare how the economy is doing so well that another 700,000 jobs just opened up!
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Old 4th January 2019, 01:15 PM   #1167
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This press conference, just now, has sealed the fact that he is an *******, egomaniac, stupid and unfit to be the "leader of the free world". What a cluster-****.
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Old 4th January 2019, 03:13 PM   #1168
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Originally Posted by Bob001 View Post
How can anyone watch this guy's press conference going on right now -- in which he has said the government shutdown could go on for "months or years" -- and not think he's radically delusional?
How is that delusional? It's actually a fair assessment of the current state. Neither side has show signs of compromise. Not saying it's right or wrong, but it's an accurate assessment.
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Old 4th January 2019, 03:16 PM   #1169
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Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
It could 'go on for months or years'? If so, the 700,000+ workers who aren't getting paid will have to quit and find other jobs. He'll probably then declare how the economy is doing so well that another 700,000 jobs just opened up!
The problem is there is no way to quit. So if we go out and get another job, take a day off to go back to our fed jobs to resign, we could get some serious back pay!

Seriously, even if I wanted to, I could not quit. Getting another job could actually cost me my current job so it would have to be one hell of an opportunity to say the least.

Time to make sure my unemployment is squared away.
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Old 4th January 2019, 03:33 PM   #1170
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Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
You wondered why the Yale group did not consider "the report (newyorkguy cited", which was Casler's claim of Trump's Adderall use. I pointed out that Casler's claim didn't come out until well after the Yale group's letter was published. You then said "Then they must have gotten their indications of Trump's drug abuse somewhere else." But as you rightly pointed out earlier, the Yale group never mentioned drug use so what indications of drug use by the Yale group are you referring to? Additionally, newyorkguy made no claims that Trump was using drugs, only that, if true, it would explain a lot.
If Trump is abusing drugs, and the Yale group didn't see the signs and didn't include it in their diagnosis, then this calls into question their diagnosis and their methodology. It also undermines their argument that they're making a justified exception to the conventional ethics of their profession. A suspect methodology is a bad reason to deviate from standard practice.

If you accept the Yale group's diagnosis, then the most reasonable response to newyorkguy's idea is that it's mistaken, and that Casler's claim is probably false.
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Old 4th January 2019, 04:11 PM   #1171
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
If Trump is abusing drugs, and the Yale group didn't see the signs and didn't include it in their diagnosis, then this calls into question their diagnosis and their methodology. It also undermines their argument that they're making a justified exception to the conventional ethics of their profession. A suspect methodology is a bad reason to deviate from standard practice.

If you accept the Yale group's diagnosis, then the most reasonable response to newyorkguy's idea is that it's mistaken, and that Casler's claim is probably false.
The Yale group did not include in their commentary any proposed reasons for Trump to display the symptoms that he shows. Drug use is only one of a myriad of reasons that Trump turned out to be the bizaar Peron that he is. The underlying reasons are only incidental to the presentation. They do not call anything into question.
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Old 4th January 2019, 04:11 PM   #1172
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Originally Posted by Leftus View Post
How is that delusional? It's actually a fair assessment of the current state. Neither side has show signs of compromise. Not saying it's right or wrong, but it's an accurate assessment.
That's nowhere close to all he said. And the delusion, among many others, is that he thinks nobody is hurt by the government shutdown and everybody supports him. He also reveals once again that he doesn't understand how tariffs work, and he claims the steel industry is "roaring back."
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/trump-s...-live-updates/

See for yourself, if you have an hour or so.
https://www.ytmp3s.info/download-don...eo--VTpFOswgqA
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Old 4th January 2019, 04:17 PM   #1173
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I saw bizaar Peron open up for Gogol Bordello. Great show!
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Old 4th January 2019, 04:26 PM   #1174
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Originally Posted by Steve View Post
The Yale group did not include in their commentary any proposed reasons for Trump to display the symptoms that he shows. Drug use is only one of a myriad of reasons that Trump turned out to be the bizaar Peron that he is. The underlying reasons are only incidental to the presentation. They do not call anything into question.
The Yale group's analysis is explicitly a proposed reason for his behavior. The Yale group attributes it to NPD, a mental disorder cataloged in the DSM. newyorkguy attributes it to drug abuse.
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Old 4th January 2019, 04:40 PM   #1175
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Originally Posted by Bob001 View Post
That's nowhere close to all he said. And the delusion, among many others, is that he thinks nobody is hurt by the government shutdown and everybody supports him. He also reveals once again that he doesn't understand how tariffs work, and he claims the steel industry is "roaring back."
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/trump-s...-live-updates/

See for yourself, if you have an hour or so.
https://www.ytmp3s.info/download-don...eo--VTpFOswgqA
Could you do me a favor and put the goalposts back where you initially found them? You made a specific claim on a specific quote.
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Old 4th January 2019, 06:48 PM   #1176
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
If Trump is abusing drugs, and the Yale group didn't see the signs and didn't include it in their diagnosis, then this calls into question their diagnosis and their methodology. It also undermines their argument that they're making a justified exception to the conventional ethics of their profession. A suspect methodology is a bad reason to deviate from standard practice.

If you accept the Yale group's diagnosis, then the most reasonable response to newyorkguy's idea is that it's mistaken, and that Casler's claim is probably false.
No one said that Trump is currently abusing drugs. Even Casler, who used it in a comedy skit, won't verify if he was serious or not. The story about the amphetamine-like drug is that he supposedly used it in the early 80's so why should the Yale group have seen signs of it and taken it into their diagnosis over 40 years later?
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Old 4th January 2019, 08:04 PM   #1177
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Originally Posted by Bob001 View Post
How can anyone watch this guy's press conference going on right now -- in which he has said the government shutdown could go on for "months or years" -- and not think he's radically delusional?
And the GOP voices on PBS right now are sucking it up. As if Trump's latest press conference meant anything other than Trump for and about Trump.
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Old 4th January 2019, 08:06 PM   #1178
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Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
I just watched the one he gave a few minutes ago. He was all over the place using his typical 12 year old level vocabulary and syntax. And a not too intelligent 12 year old at that. He makes me cringe.

It could 'go on for months or years'? If so, the 700,000+ workers who aren't getting paid will have to quit and find other jobs. He'll probably then declare how the economy is doing so well that another 700,000 jobs just opened up!
Like the TSA employees are going to work for a year without pay.

He's ignorant. And the GOP should note that because they look ignorant when they believe in Trump.
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Old 4th January 2019, 08:09 PM   #1179
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Originally Posted by Leftus View Post
How is that delusional? It's actually a fair assessment of the current state. Neither side has show signs of compromise. Not saying it's right or wrong, but it's an accurate assessment.
How is it delusional? Really?



If you think it's a fair assessment you aren't looking at anything beyond the Trump/Pelosi/Schummer meeting. The world is bigger than that. Even McConnell is hiding behind a Nunes bush.
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Old 4th January 2019, 10:28 PM   #1180
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Originally Posted by newyorkguy View Post
I continue to wonder, based on things I've read, if what appears to be mental illness/irrational behavior isn't really a result of Trump's long term amphetamine abuse.
Originally Posted by newyorkguy View Post
I was thinking of this:

Quote:
[Former Apprentice staffer Noel] Casler noted that Trump "can't read" and promptly gets "really nervous" when confronted with cue cards. "He's a speed freak," Casler said. "He crushes up his Adderall and he sniffs it because he can't read and he gets really nervous when he has to read cue cards. I'm not kidding. This is true." Link
This is true. Is it? I don't know but it would explain a lot.
Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
The Yale group's analysis is explicitly a proposed reason for his behavior. The Yale group attributes it to NPD, a mental disorder cataloged in the DSM. newyorkguy attributes it to drug abuse.
I've quoted this twice now for you. What part of "I continue to wonder" and "is it?" (true) I don't know but it would explain a lot,"
keeps escaping you? Newyorkguy is not attributing it to drug use. He is saying it's a possibility from what others who knew Trump have said/written.
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Old 5th January 2019, 06:42 AM   #1181
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
If Trump is abusing drugs, and the Yale group didn't see the signs and didn't include it in their diagnosis, then this calls into question their diagnosis and their methodology. It also undermines their argument that they're making a justified exception to the conventional ethics of their profession. A suspect methodology is a bad reason to deviate from standard practice.

If you accept the Yale group's diagnosis, then the most reasonable response to newyorkguy's idea is that it's mistaken, and that Casler's claim is probably false.

I'm not sure I follow your reasoning.

The Yale group were diagnosing the symptoms, not the cause.

One can get gangrene from frostbite or a burn, amongst other causes. It would be ridiculous to say "this doctor diagnosed gangrene - but now we know the patient had had frostbite", which seems pretty analogous to your argument.
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Old 5th January 2019, 08:56 AM   #1182
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Originally Posted by Bob001 View Post
How can anyone watch this guy's press conference going on right now -- in which he has said the government shutdown could go on for "months or years" -- and not think he's radically delusional?
I’d say that the simplest answer to your question is that people who share his delusion would not think his statements indicate that he is radically delusional.

Also, you may be overestimating the number of people who saw the unedited footage of the press conference. I’d be amazed if more than 4% of the electorate watched it.
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Old 5th January 2019, 09:15 AM   #1183
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Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
No one said that Trump is currently abusing drugs. Even Casler, who used it in a comedy skit, won't verify if he was serious or not. The story about the amphetamine-like drug is that he supposedly used it in the early 80's so why should the Yale group have seen signs of it and taken it into their diagnosis over 40 years later?
This is probably a question for newyorkguy, who claims that the drug abuse hypothesis has been explanatory power.
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Old 5th January 2019, 09:17 AM   #1184
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Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
I've quoted this twice now for you. What part of "I continue to wonder" and "is it?" (true) I don't know but it would explain a lot,"

keeps escaping you? Newyorkguy is not attributing it to drug use. He is saying it's a possibility from what others who knew Trump have said/written.
It's a possibility that the Yale group has discounted. They didn't look at Trump's behavior and say, "that's explained by drug abuse."

They said, "that's explained by NPD."
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Old 5th January 2019, 02:37 PM   #1185
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
If Trump is abusing drugs, and the Yale group didn't see the signs and didn't include it in their diagnosis, then this calls into question their diagnosis and their methodology. It also undermines their argument that they're making a justified exception to the conventional ethics of their profession. A suspect methodology is a bad reason to deviate from standard practice.

If you accept the Yale group's diagnosis, then the most reasonable response to newyorkguy's idea is that it's mistaken, and that Casler's claim is probably false.
Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
No one said that Trump is currently abusing drugs. Even Casler, who used it in a comedy skit, won't verify if he was serious or not. The story about the amphetamine-like drug is that he supposedly used it in the early 80's so why should the Yale group have seen signs of it and taken it into their diagnosis over 40 years later?
Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
This is probably a question for newyorkguy, who claims that the drug abuse hypothesis has been explanatory power.

No, I asked you, not nyg, because you are the one who alleges the Yale group's diagnosis is somehow undermined because they didn't consider Trump's diet pill drug use from 40 odd years ago or Casler's unsubstantiated claim (which wasn't made until after their diagnosis).
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Old 5th January 2019, 02:52 PM   #1186
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
The Yale group's analysis is explicitly a proposed reason for his behavior. The Yale group attributes it to NPD, a mental disorder cataloged in the DSM. newyorkguy attributes it to drug abuse.
Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
I've quoted this twice now for you. What part of "I continue to wonder" and "is it?" (true) I don't know but it would explain a lot,"
keeps escaping you? Newyorkguy is not attributing it to drug use. He is saying it's a possibility from what others who knew Trump have said/written.
Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
It's a possibility that the Yale group has discounted. They didn't look at Trump's behavior and say, "that's explained by drug abuse."

They said, "that's explained by NPD."
Try and concentrate on what the actual topic is. You claimed nyg "attributes it (Trump's behavior) to drug abuse." I pointed out that is not what nyg said. Rather than acknowledge he didn't say what you allege he did, you shift to the Yale group "discounted" drug use...which it most certainly did not. They said nothing about drug use which you, yourself, earlier admitted. There is no evidence that Trump currently, or even recently, uses drugs but the Yale experts saw ample evidence of NPD. Hell, who doesn't other than the willfully blind or his base?* Trump could be the NPD poster boy.

ETA*: which is pretty much the same thing.

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Old 5th January 2019, 03:12 PM   #1187
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
If Trump is abusing drugs, and the Yale group didn't see the signs and didn't include it in their diagnosis, then this calls into question their diagnosis and their methodology. It also undermines their argument that they're making a justified exception to the conventional ethics of their profession. A suspect methodology is a bad reason to deviate from standard practice.

If you accept the Yale group's diagnosis, then the most reasonable response to newyorkguy's idea is that it's mistaken, and that Casler's claim is probably false.
No, it calls into question your knowledge of the disorder and of psychiatry in general.
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Old 5th January 2019, 04:49 PM   #1188
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I think we can all agree he's not getting any more sane, as time goes by. I give him six months before he needs special assistants to prevent him from eating the cedar chips that line the floor of his habitat.
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Old 5th January 2019, 05:29 PM   #1189
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
No, it calls into question your knowledge of the disorder and of psychiatry in general.
That's not a question, it's a perjury trap.
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Old 5th January 2019, 05:53 PM   #1190
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Originally Posted by TragicMonkey View Post
I think we can all agree he's not getting any more sane, as time goes by. I give him six months before he needs special assistants to prevent him from eating the cedar chips that line the floor of his habitat.
One can understand Trump's behaviour, to first approximation, as infantile. I have experience of infants. I have experience of people lapsing into senility. What I have no experience of is an infant lapsing into senility. Life always has something new to offer.
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Old 11th January 2019, 05:40 AM   #1191
Iamafalser
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Quote:
Amphetamine-Like Diet Pills
"Amphetamine-Like"

(snicker)

Probably some hard narcotic like caffeine.
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Old 11th January 2019, 06:06 AM   #1192
dann
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
It's a possibility that the Yale group has discounted. They didn't look at Trump's behavior and say, "that's explained by drug abuse."

They said, "that's explained by NPD."

theprestige knows next to nothing about this, apparently:

Quote:
many NPD sufferers turn to drugs and alcohol as a way to escape their feelings of desperation, disappointment, and vulnerability. Addiction to drugs and alcohol is very common among NPD sufferers, who are often too proud to admit they’ve let their drinking or drug use get out of control.
Addiction and Narcissistic Personality Disorder (Alta Mira Recovery Programs)

The article includes a couple of interesting "Facts and Statistics" about NPD and drug use.
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"Stupidity renders itself invisible by assuming very large proportions. Completely unreasonable claims are irrefutable. Ni-en-leh pointed out that a philosopher might get into trouble by claiming that two times two makes five, but he does not risk much by claiming that two times two makes shoe polish." B. Brecht
"The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is required for their real happiness. The demand to give up the illusion about its condition is the demand to give up a condition which needs illusions." K. Marx
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Old 11th January 2019, 07:33 AM   #1193
Belz...
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Originally Posted by Leftus View Post
The problem is there is no way to quit. So if we go out and get another job, take a day off to go back to our fed jobs to resign, we could get some serious back pay!

Seriously, even if I wanted to, I could not quit. Getting another job could actually cost me my current job so it would have to be one hell of an opportunity to say the least.

Time to make sure my unemployment is squared away.
I'm pretty sure the idea wasn't to go back to your previous job after, but simply get another one (which, admitedly, isn't always simple).
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Old 11th January 2019, 07:36 AM   #1194
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Originally Posted by TragicMonkey View Post
I think we can all agree he's not getting any more sane, as time goes by.
Either that, or he's perfectly stable and it's the rest of us who are going insane.
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Old 11th January 2019, 11:39 AM   #1195
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Just in case you have not heard about the most recent Trump lie, now that stupid piece of Trump is saying things like 'I never stated that Mexico would pay for the Mexico border wall'.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/polit...=.c30f5b6ff0d2

‘The story keeps changing’: Trump falsely asserts he never promised Mexico would directly pay for the border wall

It was a foundational promise of Donald Trump’s historic presidential campaign: Mexico would pay for his 2,000-mile border wall. But as he desperately fights for $5.7 billion in taxpayer money for the project, Trump now claims he never said Mexico would directly foot the bill.

“Obviously, I never said this, and I never meant they’re going to write out a check,” the president told reporters Thursday at the White House.

He did say it — at least 212 times during his campaign and dozens more since he took office. And he put it in writing — in a March 2016 memo to news outlets that was then posted on his campaign website.

Specifically, Trump threatened to cut off billions of dollars in remittance payments from Mexican nationals in the United States to families in their home country. That, he proclaimed, would pressure the Mexican government to cough up “a one-time payment of $5-10 billion” for the wall.

...
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On 05 FEB 2019, President Donald Trump said in his Sate of the Union Address: "If there is going to be peace and legislation, there cannot be war and investigation."
On 15 FEB 2019 'BobTheCoward' said: "I constantly assert I am a fool."
A man's best friend is his dogma.
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Old 11th January 2019, 11:44 AM   #1196
Stacyhs
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Originally Posted by Iamafalser View Post
"Amphetamine-Like"

(snicker)

Probably some hard narcotic like caffeine.
The drug was Tenuate Dospan. Unlike caffeine, it is by prescription only.

Tenuate Dospan 75 MG is classified as a Schedule 4 controlled substance under the Controlled Substance Act (CSA).
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Old 13th January 2019, 03:17 PM   #1197
mgidm86
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Originally Posted by Belz... View Post
Either that, or he's perfectly stable and it's the rest of us who are going insane.
Trump perfectly stable - probably not.

Other people going insane over Trump - absolutely.
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Old 13th January 2019, 03:41 PM   #1198
Steve
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Originally Posted by mgidm86 View Post
Trump perfectly stable - probably not.

Other people going insane over Trump - absolutely.
How exactly does that work?
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Old 13th January 2019, 06:24 PM   #1199
Norman Alexander
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Originally Posted by mgidm86 View Post
Trump perfectly stable - probably not.

Other people going insane over Trump - absolutely.
And by "going insane over Trump" you mean "trying to run US government properly despite all the interference coming from the putrid orange snowflake"?
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Old 13th January 2019, 06:27 PM   #1200
Leftus
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Originally Posted by Belz... View Post
I'm pretty sure the idea wasn't to go back to your previous job after, but simply get another one (which, admitedly, isn't always simple).
Yeah, but I'm cool with the one I've got. The other issue is that I work on some sensitive projects that I'm not sure how I could discuss it in a meaningful way that would land me a job in the public sector with better pay and benefits.

Also, I'm a bit concerned that some people with skills that are fairly irreplaceable, might come back just long enough to retire.
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