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Tags donald trump , mental illness issues , psychiatry incidents , psychiatry issues , Trump controversies

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Old 19th March 2019, 09:09 AM   #1561
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
I get that. So what's the dangerous pattern?
I'm not sure myself. In some way I don't think Trump is a violent individual, but in others I could see how his narcissistic personality could lead him to do something that could result in violence or harm.

Also, if cornered, perhaps he could lash out and do something we'll all live to regret.
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Old 19th March 2019, 10:10 AM   #1562
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Originally Posted by WilliamSeger View Post
This is stupid game. If you want predictions about exactly what Trump will do, go to a psychic. The danger is precisely that nobody knows exactly what Trump will do, either spontaneously or in reaction to a crisis, but there is no reason whatsoever to expect that it will be anything but the behavior of a malignant narcissist with paranoid delusions. If you can convince yourself otherwise, or that it isn't really a danger to the country even if it's true, then sleep well tonight.


I agree, it is a stupid game -a stupid political game started by people who are supposed to be professionals. When a MHP invokes a duty to warn (as defined in Tarasoff) that overrides ethical concerns, they are warning about a credible, specific threat that a patient poses to an individual or group. We don’t have that here. What we have are the kind of vague musings you note here. Which is fine for you, a citizen layperson but is not fine for a professional who is bound by standards of ethics and practice.
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Old 19th March 2019, 10:14 AM   #1563
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Originally Posted by Belz... View Post
I'm not sure myself. In some way I don't think Trump is a violent individual, but in others I could see how his narcissistic personality could lead him to do something that could result in violence or harm.



Also, if cornered, perhaps he could lash out and do something we'll all live to regret.


“Could lead him...” and “perhaps,” are fine for concerned citizen laypeople. A professional violating ethical rules by publicly stating a professional opinion about someone they have never met in those kinds of terms? I would hope you can see that there’s a problem there.
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Old 19th March 2019, 10:26 AM   #1564
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Originally Posted by xjx388 View Post
A professional violating ethical rules by publicly stating a professional opinion about someone they have never met in those kinds of terms? I would hope you can see that there’s a problem there.
Professional ethics rules don't matter because orange man bad.
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Old 19th March 2019, 10:36 AM   #1565
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Originally Posted by Ziggurat View Post
Professional ethics rules don't matter because orange man bad.
The premise is true but your logic is invalid.
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Old 19th March 2019, 10:49 AM   #1566
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Originally Posted by Belz... View Post
The premise is true but your logic is invalid.
I want to avoid confusion here. What premise are you saying is true? That professional ethics don't matter? Or that orange man bad?

And it's not my logic. I'm describing the logic of certain other parties.
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Old 19th March 2019, 10:50 AM   #1567
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Originally Posted by Ziggurat View Post
I want to avoid confusion here. What premise are you saying is true? That professional ethics don't matter? Or that orange man bad?
The latter, since the former supposedly follows from it.

Quote:
And it's not my logic. I'm describing the logic of certain other parties.
I know. I'm agreeing with you, actually, but adding that, in fact, orange man bad.
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Old 19th March 2019, 08:42 PM   #1568
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The "Dangerous Case" conference by Bandy Lee and about 10 other speakers is on YouTube.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_c...&v=yedYljJVK8o
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Old 19th March 2019, 08:54 PM   #1569
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Originally Posted by xjx388 View Post
Like I said, I have no problem with people, even professionals, who think they have a pretty good idea. Just don’t wrap it up in your white coat and publicly proclaim it to be a diagnosis as if that means we should really listen to you.
You don't have to listen to anybody. You also lack the expertise to advise the rest of us.
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Old 19th March 2019, 08:58 PM   #1570
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Originally Posted by xjx388 View Post
For a breach of ethics to be justified, there should be something substantial to gain. It’s entirely relevant.
Maybe you don't see anything to gain. Maybe other people do. So why should anyone care about what you see or don't see?
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Old 19th March 2019, 09:00 PM   #1571
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Originally Posted by Ziggurat View Post
God, I hope Trump doesn’t manage Kim like past presidents. Those have been failures.
And your criteria for failure is what exactly?
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Old 19th March 2019, 09:05 PM   #1572
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Originally Posted by xjx388 View Post
But what does “dangerous” translate to in real terms? Because right now it seems like it means “he will pursue policies that I, personally, think are dangerous” -which is fair enough from a citizen’s standpoint; but, it’s not what a MHP means by “dangerous,” and certainly not anything that would trigger a “duty to warn,” and a justification for ethical breaches.

What do you mean by “dangerous?”
An MHP orders a 72 hour hold on people who are an immediate danger to themselves or others.

That has no relevance to a dangerous POTUS.
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Old 19th March 2019, 09:08 PM   #1573
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Originally Posted by xjx388 View Post
I agree, it is a stupid game -a stupid political game started by people who are supposed to be professionals. When a MHP invokes a duty to warn (as defined in Tarasoff) that overrides ethical concerns, they are warning about a credible, specific threat that a patient poses to an individual or group. We don’t have that here. What we have are the kind of vague musings you note here. Which is fine for you, a citizen layperson but is not fine for a professional who is bound by standards of ethics and practice.
MHP with a "duty to warn"?

I have a duty to report certain things like abuse. Who is the MHP supposed to warn?

And how is that relevant to some psychiatrists who feel the duty to warn?
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Old 19th March 2019, 09:08 PM   #1574
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
And your criteria for failure is what exactly?
They sure didn't express Love the way Trump did. Love conquers all!
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Old 19th March 2019, 09:12 PM   #1575
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Originally Posted by Belz... View Post
I'm not sure myself. In some way I don't think Trump is a violent individual, but in others I could see how his narcissistic personality could lead him to do something that could result in violence or harm.

Also, if cornered, perhaps he could lash out and do something we'll all live to regret.
I'm mostly scared about the type of people he seems to rile up. I'm an anxious person and I don't always think my concerns are realistic, but I sometimes work myself up worrying very much about civil unrest caused by his crazier worshippers. Some of those Q people are really scary. And if he loses the election, I don't know how they'll react.

I guess I don't see how we just go back to normal from here. I'm extremely fearful of all the hate and conspiracy weirdness.
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Old 19th March 2019, 09:13 PM   #1576
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Originally Posted by Bob001 View Post
The "Dangerous Case" conference by Bandy Lee and about 10 other speakers is on YouTube.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_c...&v=yedYljJVK8o
Thanks for the link.

For any of you who don't understand how these professionals have diagnosed Trump, watch the video of the conference. I'm listening to Jerrold Post, M.D. Personality Profiler right now. He's describing step by step Trump's symptoms and behaviors and how they are related to his diagnosis.
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Old 19th March 2019, 09:17 PM   #1577
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Originally Posted by Steve View Post
They sure didn't express Love the way Trump did. Love conquers all!
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Old 19th March 2019, 09:19 PM   #1578
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Originally Posted by Ziggurat View Post
Professional ethics rules don't matter because orange man bad.
You're interpretation is flawed.
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Old 21st March 2019, 11:05 AM   #1579
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
And your criteria for failure is what exactly?
We gave North Korea a bunch of aid in exchange for promises which weren't worth the paper they were printed on, and which were consistently violated at the earliest convenience. We gave, and got nothing in return. How can you describe that as anything other than a failure?
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Old 21st March 2019, 12:31 PM   #1580
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Originally Posted by Ziggurat View Post
We gave North Korea a bunch of aid in exchange for promises which weren't worth the paper they were printed on, and which were consistently violated at the earliest convenience. We gave, and got nothing in return. How can you describe that as anything other than a failure?

North Korea may not have not have negotiated with previous administrations in good faith, but U.S. didn't give them all the aid and concessions it promised either. But Trump gave up a lot -- the prestige of a presidential visit, canceling military exercises, unrestrained praise for a murderous dictator ("We fell in love!"), even absolving him of responsibility for the death of Otto Warmbier -- in exchange for nothing. That's a failure.
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Old 21st March 2019, 01:09 PM   #1581
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Originally Posted by Bob001 View Post
North Korea may not have not have negotiated with previous administrations in good faith, but U.S. didn't give them all the aid and concessions it promised either.
But we have given them material aid before. Trump hasn't.

Quote:
But Trump gave up a lot -- the prestige of a presidential visit, canceling military exercises, unrestrained praise for a murderous dictator ("We fell in love!"), even absolving him of responsibility for the death of Otto Warmbier -- in exchange for nothing. That's a failure.
PR stuff is less important than material aid, and although Trump has flattered Kim, he's also insulted him much more harshly than former Presidents. That's a style issue, not a substance one.

And we have gotten concessions from North Korea. They've stopped nuclear weapons testing, for example.
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Old 21st March 2019, 01:27 PM   #1582
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Seems like Trump gave away a lot of stuff that didn't cost him anything, which is a totally reasonable price to pay for not getting anything of value in return.

I mean, seriously? Trump gave Kim a shout-out for nothing, and that's an unprecedented failure in negotiations with North Korea?

I also like how, for this complaint to work, we have to suddenly reverse course and believe that Trump has the respect of the world's leaders, and that his pronouncements have real value for them.

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Old 22nd March 2019, 08:22 AM   #1583
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The proof is there for everybody else to see, but since many of you find it so hard to understand, let Jimmy Kimmel go through the list with you:

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"The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is required for their real happiness. The demand to give up the illusion about its condition is the demand to give up a condition which needs illusions." K. Marx
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Old 22nd March 2019, 09:10 AM   #1584
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Originally Posted by dann View Post
The proof is there for everybody else to see, but since many of you find it so hard to understand, let Jimmy Kimmel go through the list with you:



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Really, is this what we’ve come to? Jimmy Frickin’ Kimmel?

Thank you for showing a perfect example of the devaluation of the Mental Health profession. Who needs training, experience, standards and ethics when your friendly late night host can do the same thing?
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Old 22nd March 2019, 09:15 AM   #1585
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Originally Posted by xjx388 View Post
Really, is this what we’ve come to? Jimmy Frickin’ Kimmel?

Thank you for showing a perfect example of the devaluation of the Mental Health profession. Who needs training, experience, standards and ethics when your friendly late night host can do the same thing?
I think Kimmel may have simply been lowkey shilling Bandy's book.

Anyway, whatevs. Let me know when Kimmel gets past saying it's true, and starts telling us what he plans to do about it.
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Old 22nd March 2019, 09:16 AM   #1586
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Originally Posted by xjx388 View Post
Really, is this what we’ve come to? Jimmy Frickin’ Kimmel?

Thank you for showing a perfect example of the devaluation of the Mental Health profession. Who needs training, experience, standards and ethics when your friendly late night host can do the same thing?
On the other hand, one needn't possess an MD to correctly diagnose decapitation. With sufficient severity things can move from the expert's obscure to the laity's obvious.
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Old 22nd March 2019, 09:28 AM   #1587
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Originally Posted by TragicMonkey View Post
On the other hand, one needn't possess an MD to correctly diagnose decapitation. With sufficient severity things can move from the expert's obscure to the laity's obvious.
Which brings us back to, what does the Yale Group offer us, that we didn't have already on our own authority (or on Jimmy Kimmel's authority, if our own does not suffice)?
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Old 22nd March 2019, 09:40 AM   #1588
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
Which brings us back to, what does the Yale Group offer us, that we didn't have already on our own authority (or on Jimmy Kimmel's authority, if our own does not suffice)?
Nothing. Their authority in the subject is cancelled out by their lack of actual access to the patient, rendering their opinion no more authoritative than the laity's. That's my opinion, anyway. Clearly others disagree. But whether the opinions of this person or that person are worth listening to is a separate issue from whether Trump is actually insane. Which he is, lying somewhere between Peter III of Russia and Idi Amin on the world leaders scale of madness. He doesn't foam at the mouth and chew the drywall (yet), but he definitely can't be left alone in the house without those special plastic guards over the power outlets. It's simply not worth the risk.
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Old 22nd March 2019, 09:43 AM   #1589
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Originally Posted by TragicMonkey View Post
Nothing. Their authority in the subject is cancelled out by their lack of actual access to the patient, rendering their opinion no more authoritative than the laity's. That's my opinion, anyway. Clearly others disagree. But whether the opinions of this person or that person are worth listening to is a separate issue from whether Trump is actually insane. Which he is, lying somewhere between Peter III of Russia and Idi Amin on the world leaders scale of madness. He doesn't foam at the mouth and chew the drywall (yet), but he definitely can't be left alone in the house without those special plastic guards over the power outlets. It's simply not worth the risk.
You lost me there at the end. In practical terms, metaphors aside, what exactly are you proposing should be done?
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Old 22nd March 2019, 09:53 AM   #1590
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Originally Posted by TragicMonkey View Post
On the other hand, one needn't possess an MD to correctly diagnose decapitation. With sufficient severity things can move from the expert's obscure to the laity's obvious.
exactly .

Diagnosing Trump as unwell and in need of medical attention is far easier than specifically identifying the problem.
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Old 22nd March 2019, 09:59 AM   #1591
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
You lost me there at the end. In practical terms, metaphors aside, what exactly are you proposing should be done?
It's a simple installation, they just plug right in, or you can get the kind that snap over the whole outlet plate. I think it's extra necessary because he could easily get his tiny tapered fingers in there and get shocked.

Or more seriously, based on this Yale Group announcement we should do nothing. Those around Trump should be observing his behavior and take whatever steps become necessary should he descend to a point where he becomes a danger to himself and others. When Reagan had health troubles it was handled quietly and responsibly, and the public didn't realize the extent of his problems until long afterwards. Ideally the same would be followed in Trump's case, but seeing how his presidency has been an openly public dumpster fire high-publicity clown show I don't expect much responsibility, sense, and tact occurring. If it happens it'll be a public spectacle.

Which of course is terrible. Nations need stability, and having a cuckoo leader isn't good for anybody. If Trump melts down and everybody sees it it will not be a great triumph for his political enemies, it will be a pitiful failure of the entire nation that first we let such a thing happen and second we couldn't handle it properly. Trump being president is embarrassing enough, his stopping being president early would be even more embarrassing.
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Old 22nd March 2019, 10:33 AM   #1592
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This doesn't seem particularly normal for someone older than a toddler

https://www.newsweek.com/donald-trum...caddie-1370835

Quote:
On Thursday, Politico published an excerpt from Commander-in-Cheat: How Golf Explains Trump, a forthcoming book from sportswriter Rick Reilly. The title explores Trump's relationship with golf—as well as his relationships with his current caddy—identified as A.J—and his former-caddy-turned-staffer Dan Scavino. One brief passage details a funny exchange that came as a result of Trump's anger at a wayward drive.

Reilly wrote in the Politico excerpt:

"One time, after a bad drive, Trump slammed his driver back in his bag, as guys will do, and wasn’t really watching what he was doing, and the driver ricocheted back and hit Trump in the head. 'A.J.?'Trump asked, pissed. 'Did you just hit me in the head with my own driver?'

'Sir, Mr. Trump, why would I do that?' A.J. said. 'You’re my president!'

The excerpt from Commander-in-Cheat looks at A.J.—described as "a 60-something ex-Marine"—bending over backward to praise Trump as they loop around one of his home courses, Trump National Golf Club Washington. Trump is, of course, an avid golfer whose company owns more than a dozen courses, including elite courses like Trump Turnberry in Scotland and Trump National Doral in Florida.
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link is 2015 data (2013 Data below):
UK 8.5% of GDP of which 83.3% is public expenditure - 7.1% of GDP is public spending
US 16.4% of GDP of which 48.2% is public expenditure - 7.9% of GDP is public spending
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Old 22nd March 2019, 10:46 AM   #1593
Bob001
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Originally Posted by jimbob View Post
This doesn't seem particularly normal for someone older than a toddler

https://www.newsweek.com/donald-trum...caddie-1370835
Here's the original link to the book excerpt:
https://www.politico.com/magazine/st...f-caddy-225885
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Old 22nd March 2019, 10:48 AM   #1594
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It's not a mental illness. He's been sent by god...

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-47670717
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Old 22nd March 2019, 10:53 AM   #1595
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Originally Posted by 3point14 View Post
It's not a mental illness. He's been sent by god...

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-47670717
Why America should let an Israeli god dictate our relations with Israel I'll never understand. It's a clear case of nationalist bias. We don't let Ahura Mazda influence us on Iran.
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Old 22nd March 2019, 12:55 PM   #1596
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And now he drops sanctions just imposed by the Treasury Department on North Korea for no better reason...according to the White House..then he "likes" Kim.
On the day that the North shut down it's liason office with the South.
We have delusional moron as President. Period. End of Discussion.
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Old 22nd March 2019, 12:57 PM   #1597
dudalb
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Originally Posted by jimbob View Post
This doesn't seem particularly normal for someone older than a toddler

https://www.newsweek.com/donald-trum...caddie-1370835
I would hate to play golf with Trump. He sounds like a lousy player who will blame anybody but himself for his missed shots.
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Old 22nd March 2019, 01:12 PM   #1598
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Originally Posted by dudalb View Post
I would hate to play golf with Trump. He sounds like a lousy player who will blame anybody but himself for his missed shots.
His entire life is just a reflection of how he plays golf. Or vice versa.
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Old 22nd March 2019, 01:39 PM   #1599
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Originally Posted by 3point14 View Post
It's not a mental illness. He's been sent by god...

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-47670717
But Which God?

I'm betting Cthulhu.
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Old 22nd March 2019, 01:43 PM   #1600
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Originally Posted by jimbob View Post
exactly .

Diagnosing Trump as unwell and in need of medical attention is far easier than specifically identifying the problem.
Having an opinion that something is wrong with Trump as a layperson is not a problem.
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