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Old 15th March 2019, 07:33 PM   #601
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Originally Posted by Lambchops View Post
I'm not shocked by this at all. This is what the young right-wing is.

And still, centrists think antifa is the problem.
It's not centrists that think Antifa is an issue, it's rightwingers who think that by demonizing Antifa and tying them to the left that they can demonize the left by association.
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Old 15th March 2019, 07:33 PM   #602
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Originally Posted by PhantomWolf View Post
We haven't shut down for Sundays in decades
I see. Well I guess it's been decades since I was there: 1978.
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Old 15th March 2019, 07:35 PM   #603
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The Muslim burial side of things sounds like a logistical nightmare.

Sad
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Old 15th March 2019, 07:36 PM   #604
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
I see. Well I guess it's been decades since I was there: 1978.
There have been a lot of changes since then, though we still do pretty much close down by 5:30pm (except Restaurants, Dairies, Service Stations, and other food outlets.)
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Old 15th March 2019, 07:37 PM   #605
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
I see. Well I guess it's been decades since I was there: 1978.
I'm guessing you were much younger then.
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Old 15th March 2019, 07:37 PM   #606
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Originally Posted by cullennz View Post
The Muslim burial side of things sounds like a logistical nightmare.

Sad
I believe that by tradition they are meant to be buried by the next sun down if at all possible. So yeah...
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Old 15th March 2019, 07:40 PM   #607
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Originally Posted by PhantomWolf View Post
I believe that by tradition they are meant to be buried by the next sun down if at all possible. So yeah...
Been digging today and hope to get the bodies out by the end of the day according to Ardern. (The body bit. Heard about the digging this morning)
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Source: The America We Deserve, by Donald Trump, p.102 , Jul 2, 2000
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Old 15th March 2019, 07:41 PM   #608
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Originally Posted by Steve View Post
I'm guessing you were much younger then.
Yep. Had a great time, BTW.
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Old 15th March 2019, 07:42 PM   #609
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Originally Posted by PhantomWolf View Post
It has nothing to do with the time it takes, it has to do with how much it would cost to put in passenger screening into every regional airport in the country when there is little to no benefit to it.
It shouldn't have to be explained how this is a sensible preventative move. Are you waiting for a domestic hijack or massacre on a plane to make such a sensible move? The cost of insignificant against the overall cost of air travel. So what if it adds a few dollars to a ticket?
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Old 15th March 2019, 07:47 PM   #610
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Originally Posted by lionking View Post
It shouldn't have to be explained how this is a sensible preventative move. Are you waiting for a domestic hijack or massacre on a plane to make such a sensible move? The cost of insignificant against the overall cost of air travel. So what if it adds a few dollars to a ticket?
Considering it will probably end up happening as a knee jerk reaction after this I think she is a bit of a moot point.
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Source: The America We Deserve, by Donald Trump, p.102 , Jul 2, 2000
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Old 15th March 2019, 07:56 PM   #611
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Bit late on a fast-moving thread, but I do like to correct nonsense:

Originally Posted by cullennz View Post
Domestic outbound flights were stopped at Chch, because Hand Luggage isn't checked and some nutter shooter could be trying to get away
Originally Posted by PhantomWolf View Post
Strange you didn't find this part....
From Civil Aviation NZ:

There are currently five security-designated airports in New Zealand — Auckland, Wellington, Christchurch, Dunedin and Queenstown
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Old 15th March 2019, 07:57 PM   #612
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Originally Posted by lionking View Post
I So what if it adds a few dollars to a ticket?
...can you be a bit more specific?

How many domestic terminals are we talking about here?

What would the cost be to both build screening facilities and to staff those facilities?

And how many extra dollars would be added to each and every ticket?

You seem to know all the answers. Perhaps you could drop a few in this thread.

In the domestic marketplace we've watched as airlines have come and go and now there really is only one airline left. In 2014 Air New Zealand cancelled long-established routes to Kaitaia, Whakatane and Westport and then phased out flights from Whangarei to Wellington, Taupo to Wellington, Palmerston North to Nelson and Hamilton to Auckland. "A few dollars to a ticket" isn't enough to make a difference. It would simply mean remote and isolated communities will no longer have access to domestic flights.

This thread sure has gone strange.
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Old 15th March 2019, 08:00 PM   #613
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Originally Posted by The Atheist View Post
a fast-moving thread
Right now it's moving like a merry-go-round or a hamster wheel.
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Old 15th March 2019, 08:00 PM   #614
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Originally Posted by William Parcher View Post
New Zealand Herald: Police believe one man is responsible for yesterday’s Christchurch massacre - and allege he traveled between two packed mosques and killed at least 49 people. And within 36 minutes - it was all over. He was caught, dragged from a car by two police officers, and taken into custody.
People are still today claiming there were multiple shooters.

Never let facts get in the way of a good story, I guess.

I might go hunting tomorrow.
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Old 15th March 2019, 08:02 PM   #615
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Originally Posted by William Parcher View Post
Right now it's moving like a merry-go-round or a hamster wheel.
If you took out all the misinformation and garbage it'd probably fit on a couple of pages.

All the news media is doing the same - stories are going up and being withdrawn plenty.
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Old 15th March 2019, 08:02 PM   #616
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Originally Posted by The Atheist View Post
Bit late on a fast-moving thread, but I do like to correct nonsense:





From Civil Aviation NZ:

There are currently five security-designated airports in New Zealand — Auckland, Wellington, Christchurch, Dunedin and Queenstown
That is fantastic, but will it help if I tell you that I am originally from ChCh, regularly travel to Chch from Wellington and or Southland where half my family is, and there is no carry on luggage screening.
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I generally oppose gun control, but I support the ban on assault weapons and I support a slightly longer waiting period to purchase a gun. With today’s Internet technology we should be able to tell within 72-hours if a potential gun owner has a record.

Source: The America We Deserve, by Donald Trump, p.102 , Jul 2, 2000
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Old 15th March 2019, 08:04 PM   #617
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Originally Posted by PhantomWolf View Post
If I was the one making the precautions I wouldn't argue about it.
Okay
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Old 15th March 2019, 08:04 PM   #618
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Originally Posted by lionking View Post
It shouldn't have to be explained how this is a sensible preventative move. Are you waiting for a domestic hijack or massacre on a plane to make such a sensible move? The cost of insignificant against the overall cost of air travel. So what if it adds a few dollars to a ticket?
We had a hijacking about a decade back, a cost benefit analysis done at the time determined that it was not cost effective give the extreme unlikelihood of these threats. And we're not talking a dew dollars on a ticket, we are talking costing the Government millions of dollars.

Does Australia have check point all over your major cities stopping people an checking their cars for explosives? Do you check your car each day for explosive devices that might have been planted on it? Why not? More people have died in Australia to car bombs and bombs planted on cars than have ever died in NZ to terrorist attacks on region aircraft. The risk of a hijack or massacre on a regional plane here is simply too low to sustain the costs of preventing it.
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Old 15th March 2019, 08:04 PM   #619
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Originally Posted by cullennz View Post
That is fantastic, but will it help if I tell you that I am originally from ChCh, regularly travel to Chch from Wellington and or Southland where half my family is, and there is no carry on luggage screening.
Someone's falling down on the job then. That's the government's own page. Ring up Jacinda & let her know.
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Old 15th March 2019, 08:06 PM   #620
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Originally Posted by The Atheist View Post
Someone's falling down on the job then. That's the government's own page. Ring up Jacinda & let her know.

I think you missed the bit where I said it isn't needed

If you have a problem you ring her
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Old 15th March 2019, 08:10 PM   #621
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Originally Posted by The Atheist View Post
Bit late on a fast-moving thread, but I do like to correct nonsense:





From Civil Aviation NZ:

There are currently five security-designated airports in New Zealand — Auckland, Wellington, Christchurch, Dunedin and Queenstown
Again, when was the last time you flew on a Regional plane in New Zealand?

Even at the major airports, passengers and luggage are not screened for planes with less than 90 seats. If you are flying regionally, then you go through an entirely different part of the airport than if you are flying on the big jets between major centres. Also combating your argument is that Air NZ has announced that they actually will be putting baggage through screening for all flights out of Christchurch for the next 48 hours. Guess what that means? Prior to this, the regional fights weren't screened.
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Old 15th March 2019, 08:19 PM   #622
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Originally Posted by PhantomWolf View Post
Again, when was the last time you flew on a Regional plane in New Zealand?

Even at the major airports, passengers and luggage are not screened for planes with less than 90 seats. If you are flying regionally, then you go through an entirely different part of the airport than if you are flying on the big jets between major centres. Also combating your argument is that Air NZ has announced that they actually will be putting baggage through screening for all flights out of Christchurch for the next 48 hours. Guess what that means? Prior to this, the regional fights weren't screened.
Tbf I think this whole mix up is me saying domestic rather than regional flights, which was a mistake.

For what little it is worth or difference it makes I apologise to everyone.

Basically think the vast majority of propeller plane flights
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Source: The America We Deserve, by Donald Trump, p.102 , Jul 2, 2000
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Old 15th March 2019, 08:21 PM   #623
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Oh wow. Criticise NZ in any way and watch out. Not security checking baggage is just plain stupid. They do it on internal flights on 20 seaters in Nepal, and Nepal is one of the most impoverished places in the world.

And guess what has now happened? The whole world now knows that airport security on domestic flights in NZ is laughable. Not hard to imagine a budding terrorist wanting to test it.
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Old 15th March 2019, 08:23 PM   #624
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Originally Posted by cullennz View Post
Tbf I think this whole mix up is me saying domestic rather than regional flights, which was a mistake.

For what little it is worth or difference it makes I apologise to everyone.

Basically think the vast majority of propeller plane flights
Turboprop is a better word, otherwise people will be think of Cessna 172s and the like rather than the SAAB 340s and Bombardier Q300s that are actually used.
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Old 15th March 2019, 08:26 PM   #625
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Originally Posted by lionking View Post
Oh wow. Criticise NZ in any way and watch out. Not security checking baggage is just plain stupid. They do it on internal flights on 20 seaters in Nepal, and Nepal is one of the most impoverished places in the world.

And guess what has now happened? The whole world now knows that airport security on domestic flights in NZ is laughable. Not hard to imagine a budding terrorist wanting to test it.
Gee why might they do them in Nepal?

Let's see....

Originally Posted by UK Govt
Terrorism
Terrorists are likely to try to carry out attacks in Nepal. Attacks can be indiscriminate, including in places frequented by expatriates and foreign travellers. Be vigilant in public places and take local advice.
Terrorist attacks in Nepal include the 2005 bus attack near Badarmude

Originally Posted by worlddata.info
Over the past 5 years a total number of 445 terrorist incidents has been recorded [in Nepal], in which 12 people have been killed and 212 injured.
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Old 15th March 2019, 08:27 PM   #626
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Originally Posted by lionking View Post
Oh wow. Criticise NZ in any way and watch out. Not security checking baggage is just plain stupid. They do it on internal flights on 20 seaters in Nepal, and Nepal is one of the most impoverished places in the world.

And guess what has now happened? The whole world now knows that airport security on domestic flights in NZ is laughable. Not hard to imagine a budding terrorist wanting to test it.
That is one way to look at it.

Another way is why would some travel about 18,000 k to bother testing it over about 12 passengers
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Old 15th March 2019, 08:27 PM   #627
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Originally Posted by lionking View Post
Oh wow. Criticise NZ in any way and watch out. Not security checking baggage is just plain stupid. They do it on internal flights on 20 seaters in Nepal, and Nepal is one of the most impoverished places in the world.

And guess what has now happened? The whole world now knows that airport security on domestic flights in NZ is laughable. Not hard to imagine a budding terrorist wanting to test it.
I guess New Zealand should probably take a moment to consider how many Australians might want to terrorize them. I would have figured "maybe one", but apparently the number could be much higher.

It might be high time New Zealand set up some prison islands for new immigrants.
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Old 15th March 2019, 08:30 PM   #628
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Originally Posted by PhantomWolf View Post
Gee why might they do them in Nepal?

Let's see....
And yet the cost hasn’t crippled Nepalese airlines.

Yes, you haven’t had an airline massacre yet. Before yesterday you hadn’t had a mosque massacre.
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Old 15th March 2019, 08:34 PM   #629
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Originally Posted by lionking View Post
And yet the cost hasn’t crippled Nepalese airlines.

Yes, you haven’t had an airline massacre yet. Before yesterday you hadn’t had a mosque massacre.
And with a bit of luck we won't change the whole of our transport system or security over the one off.

The gun licence issue needs looking at though.

But tbf it has been for a while.

Not so much the granting. More the types.
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Old 15th March 2019, 08:36 PM   #630
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Originally Posted by lionking View Post
And yet the cost hasn’t crippled Nepalese airlines.
Again you aren't listening. The airline don't pay for it. The GOVERNMENT does. Regional Airports in NZ are owned as a mixture of Central and Local Body Government. It is the NZ rate and tax payers that would have to pay the millions of dollars to add security into airports, many of which don't have the infrastructure to add it, and then pay to have people run that security, all for something that is all but non-existent. You want to talk insane, spending millions on dollars to prevent something that is not a threat? That is insane

Quote:
Yes, you haven’t had an airline massacre yet. Before yesterday you hadn’t had a mosque massacre.
Which might be an argument for better security at Mosques.
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Old 15th March 2019, 08:38 PM   #631
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Originally Posted by cullennz View Post
That is one way to look at it.

Another way is why would some travel about 18,000 k to bother testing it over about 12 passengers
Not only that, but why bother to do anything like that to a country where an attack would have little effect on those that you actually want to target?
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Old 15th March 2019, 08:38 PM   #632
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Originally Posted by lionking View Post
Oh wow. Criticise NZ in any way and watch out. Not security checking baggage is just plain stupid.
...strawman. You are free to criticize NZ in any way you like. But if you are going to offer uniformed, knee-jerk, fact-free emotional and ultimately irrelevant opinions then you shouldn't be surprised that you get push-back on it.
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Old 15th March 2019, 08:41 PM   #633
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Originally Posted by PhantomWolf View Post
Again you aren't listening. The airline don't pay for it. The GOVERNMENT does. Regional Airports in NZ are owned as a mixtureof Central and Local Body Government. It is the NZ rate and tax payers that would have to pay the millions of dollars to add security into airports, many of which don't have the infrastructure to add it, and then pay to have people tun that security, all for something that is all but non-existent. You want to talk insane, spending millions on dollars to prevent something that is not a threat? That is insane



Which might be an argument for better security at Mosques.
Levies on airlines pays for airport security in Australia. I’ll bet it’s the same for international flights into NZ. Government can and does pass on these costs to operators and ultimately customers.
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Old 15th March 2019, 08:45 PM   #634
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Originally Posted by PhantomWolf View Post
Not only that, but why bother to do anything like that to a country where an attack would have little effect on those that you actually want to target?

True

Even with this piece of ******** jerks crap, it has hardly promoted any kind of propaganda he was aiming for. At the end of the day it's NZ. Hardly the most prominent country in the world for controversy.

No one is talking about the race stuff that I have seen.

Just the travesty

And that seems to be world wide for the vast majority.

If anything he has just brought people together.
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Old 15th March 2019, 08:49 PM   #635
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Originally Posted by PhantomWolf View Post
Again you aren't listening. The airline don't pay for it. The GOVERNMENT does. Regional Airports in NZ are owned as a mixture of Central and Local Body Government. It is the NZ rate and tax payers that would have to pay the millions of dollars to add security into airports, many of which don't have the infrastructure to add it, and then pay to have people run that security, all for something that is all but non-existent. You want to talk insane, spending millions on dollars to prevent something that is not a threat? That is insane



Which might be an argument for better security at Mosques.
I think lk's argument is that gun crazed Aussies are a real threat that NZ needs to start taking seriously.
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Old 15th March 2019, 08:54 PM   #636
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Originally Posted by cullennz View Post
True



Even with this piece of ******** jerks crap, it has hardly promoted any kind of propaganda he was aiming for. At the end of the day it's NZ. Hardly the most prominent country in the world for controversy.



No one is talking about the race stuff that I have seen.



Just the travesty



And that seems to be world wide for the vast majority.



If anything he has just brought people together.
I like the cut of your jib, but real talk? He also killed 40-odd people who will never again be together with their loved ones.
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Old 15th March 2019, 08:57 PM   #637
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Originally Posted by lionking View Post
Levies on airlines pays for airport security in Australia. I’ll bet it’s the same for international flights into NZ. Government can and does pass on these costs to operators and ultimately customers.
My local airport has a total of 21 commercial fights a day 6 days a week, and just 13 flights on Saturdays, each with a maximum of 34 passengers assuming the flight is full. How long would it take to pay for all the security and changes to the airport buildings that would be required by your scheme?

You seem to also be very be hard of reading. I have already told you twice that adding security to the regional airports was looked onto about a decade back and it was determined that it simply wasn't worth it. What makes you think that you know better than the experts who actually know and studied the situation and then wrote a report on it to with their recommendations to our Government?
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Old 15th March 2019, 08:57 PM   #638
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
I like the cut of your jib, but real talk? He also killed 40-odd people who will never again be together with their loved ones.
49...So far (there is still some in ICU)
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Old 15th March 2019, 09:04 PM   #639
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
I like the cut of your jib, but real talk? He also killed 40-odd people who will never again be together with their loved ones.
That's the travesty part... we're all hurting here, even those of us that were far from the action. This is like the Christchurch quakes all over again, there is a sense of shock and disbelief, especially since he wasn't even a NZer. To be honest I don't know if that makes it better or worse. The idea that a foreigner can come here and kill New Zealanders, people that came here for a safer life. That is just... incomprehensible. It makes a lot of us very, very angry that an outsider has brought this sort of reprehensible violence to our shores. Yet had it been a New Zealander that had been slaughtering their fellows...

As I say, the country is still in shock at the moment, but we are a resilient people, and Christchurch especially. We'll mourne for the dead, comfort the living, and then we'll get on with building a better and brighter tomorrow for everyone, and God help anyone that tries to hurt any of us in this way again.
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Old 15th March 2019, 09:13 PM   #640
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The PM has stated that the guns used appear to have been modified to make them semi-automatics, which at the moment is how they believe he got hold of them. So it seems that he got single fire weapons legally, modified them into semi-automatics illegally, and somehow got hold of illegal high capacity magazines for them.

Not much any gun laws could have done to stop this, other than doing a better background check into him when he applied for his licence. However even then, people at the shooting club he frequented say he seemed totally normal around them and never expressed any extremist ideas. Similarly a workmate in Australia who had worked with him for 6 years was surprised to learn about his extremism.
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