|
Welcome to the International Skeptics Forum, where we discuss skepticism, critical thinking, the paranormal and science in a friendly but lively way. You are currently viewing the forum as a guest, which means you are missing out on discussing matters that are of interest to you. Please consider registering so you can gain full use of the forum features and interact with other Members. Registration is simple, fast and free! Click here to register today. |
26th July 2019, 12:25 PM | #1081 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: San Francisco
Posts: 13,087
|
|
__________________
Music is what feelings sound like "Dulce bellum inexpertīs." - Erasmus |
|
29th July 2019, 08:50 AM | #1082 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Canada, eh?
Posts: 20,625
|
Given the fact that she was strangled with a garrote (while still alive), that seems rather strange for a kind of Burke's age to try.
It should also be noted that at least some of the evidence for the claim given in that article was that "The Ramseys were not acting normal". But this was a 2nd/3rd hand account (done in part by the police, who had been bungling the case from the beginning). And, according to the profiling books I read on the case, you can't tell much from people's reactions in a high-stress situation like a kidnapping. (Different people will react differently.) |
__________________
Trust me, I know what I'm doing. - Sledgehammer I'm Mary Poppins Y'all! - Yondu We are Groot - Groot |
|
29th July 2019, 09:16 AM | #1083 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Canada, eh?
Posts: 20,625
|
Quote:
But lets play some alternate history... Lets say the cops did a proper search of the house before hand (and found the body themselves.) And they properly cleared the house immediately to prevent contamination. Would that have gotten them any closer to finding the killer? Part of the problem was not lack of evidence, but too much evidence that was hard to interpret. But with it being the family home, you were always going to have issues with the family's finger prints and other evidence basically being everywhere. And some of the stuff they found that actually might be useful in tracking down a killer (such as DNA evidence) was actually collected, but they haven't linked it to anyone. There is a very good chance that even if the cops had acted competently, the case would still be unsolved. |
__________________
Trust me, I know what I'm doing. - Sledgehammer I'm Mary Poppins Y'all! - Yondu We are Groot - Groot |
|
30th July 2019, 12:38 PM | #1084 |
Muse
Join Date: Apr 2019
Location: The Scunthorpe Problem
Posts: 695
|
TV programme
21:00 BST (in 21 minutes!) Hunting JonBenet's Killer, Crime And Investigation channel.
|
30th July 2019, 01:24 PM | #1085 |
Philosopher
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: United States
Posts: 6,332
|
|
30th July 2019, 02:01 PM | #1086 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Canada, eh?
Posts: 20,625
|
Yes, and no.
The autopsy reports suggest she was strangled while alive (as opposed to the garrote being applied later, as some sort of crime staging.) It is likely that she was strangled first and then hit with the flashlight later (based on a lack of blood involved with the wound). Although the exact sequence of events can't be determined concluseively, that's the most likely scenario (plus, we know she was alive when strangled, even if she was hit first.)
Quote:
So, for that to have been the case, Burke would have 1) had to have known about the activity, 2) knew how to fashion a garrote, and afterwords 3) managed to avoid doing anything to reveal his crime in the many years since the murder, and 4) both parents would have been both willing and able to cover for him. You're expecting all this to have been done by a kid under 10 and 2 parents who had just lost their daughter. |
__________________
Trust me, I know what I'm doing. - Sledgehammer I'm Mary Poppins Y'all! - Yondu We are Groot - Groot |
|
7th August 2019, 09:05 AM | #1087 |
Illuminator
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Bristol UK
Posts: 4,127
|
Neither the Boulder DA nor the incompetent Boulder cop Steve Thomas believed Burke was involved in the JonBenet murder.
|
7th August 2019, 09:19 AM | #1088 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: San Francisco
Posts: 13,087
|
|
__________________
Music is what feelings sound like "Dulce bellum inexpertīs." - Erasmus |
|
22nd December 2021, 10:03 AM | #1089 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 24,921
|
The case is still alive!
Twenty-five years after JonBenet Ramsey was killed, police say DNA hasn’t been ruled out to help solve the case. https://spectrumnews1.com/oh/clevela...-investigation
Quote:
|
__________________
"Reality is what's left when you cease to believe." Philip K. Dick |
|
22nd December 2021, 10:27 AM | #1090 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 14,185
|
Unfortunately that article is a bit short on the details of how new DNA testing might help. It just suggests that online genealogy sites might be used like they have in some other cases.
|
22nd December 2021, 03:24 PM | #1091 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Sep 2001
Posts: 21,398
|
Modern methods of DNA testing can identify a lot of phenotypical information and even familial relationships. It's possible to narrow the pool significantly, to the point where all but a couple could be eliminated.
It's not cheap, but if any case were to go that way, it would be JBR. |
__________________
Gunter Haas, the 'leading British expert,' was a graphologist who advised couples, based on their handwriting characteristics, if they were compatible for marriage. I would submit that couples idiotic enough to do this are probably quite suitable for each other. It's nice when stupid people find love. - Ludovic Kennedy |
|
23rd December 2021, 01:10 PM | #1092 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 20,637
|
Of course there's a potential problem from the get-go, if it were the factual truth that the Ramsey family were the perpetrators rather than an external intruder: finding Ramsey DNA on JonBenet (or indeed many of the items connected to her murder) would be inconclusive at best, and useless at worst, owing to the fact that her family obviously had regular intimate contact with her, and because all of the items originated within the Ramsey house. Plus of course we have John Ramsey himself contaminating the scene and holding JonBenet's body tightly. On the other hand, if advances in the sensitivity and quality of DNA typing were to enable investigators to find DNA which wasn't that of any Ramsey family member, and which (by virtue of where and upon what it was found) had to have been linked to the murder.... that would obviously be a huge progression in the case. And if they were able to match that DNA with an individual (or someone familially linked to an individual), where that individual had the means and opportunity to have carried out the crime... that would of course be a bombshell moment in the case. Incidentally, given that these specialised techniques and processes are pretty expensive (as you said), I wonder whether John Ramsey might jump at the chance to fund any new analysis? Or not...? |
23rd December 2021, 02:22 PM | #1093 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 14,185
|
|
24th December 2021, 07:55 AM | #1094 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 20,637
|
I know they found DNA back then.... but for it to be of use to the investigation, it would have to be shown pretty conclusively to be either 1) directly linked to the assault/murder, or 2) the DNA of someone who a) had no reason to have had their DNA present on the body or the associated items and b) had the means and opportunity to have carried out the assault/murder. |
24th December 2021, 08:38 AM | #1095 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 14,185
|
And none of that would be done with a DNA test.
|
24th December 2021, 09:54 AM | #1096 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 11,311
|
Y chromosomal Short Tandem Repeats
If they still exist, her fingernails should be swabbed one more time, but YSTR typing should be performed.
|
__________________
It is possible both to be right about an issue and to take oneself a little too seriously, but I would rather be reminded of that by a friend than a foe. (a tip of the hat to Foolmewunz) |
|
31st July 2022, 10:38 AM | #1097 | |||
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 24,921
|
Still Remembered. Still Open. Still Ongoing.
Just caught this on YouTube. From 60 Minutes Australia, July 24,2022.
The breakthrough new DNA evidence that could find JonBenét Ramsey's killer | 60 Minutes Australia
More of an update than anything truly new. |
|||
__________________
"Reality is what's left when you cease to believe." Philip K. Dick |
||||
31st July 2022, 05:22 PM | #1098 |
Agave Wine Connoisseur
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Just past ' Resume Speed ' .
Posts: 19,277
|
Click bait..
|
__________________
Maybe later.... |
|
1st August 2022, 12:40 AM | #1099 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Oct 2013
Posts: 11,941
|
Someone who stalked the pageants?
Only viable solution. |
1st August 2022, 01:02 AM | #1100 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Apr 2015
Posts: 34,989
|
Or, the person whose handwriting matched the ransom note.
|
__________________
who claims the soulless Who speaks for the forgotten dead ~ Danzig |
|
1st August 2022, 06:19 AM | #1101 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 24,921
|
|
__________________
"Reality is what's left when you cease to believe." Philip K. Dick |
|
1st August 2022, 08:37 AM | #1102 |
Dental Floss Tycoon
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 21,371
|
Maybe. Maybe not.
But it does remind me of something a friend of mine told me years ago. She'd gone to a jeweler at a shopping mall to get her grandmother's wedding ring resized so she could wear it. As she was there a child beauty pageant was going on in the concourse. The sight of all the little girls in heavy makeup and frilly dresses was creepy enough, but she was literally nauseated by all the lone adult men intently watching from the edge of the audience. |
__________________
Counterbalance in the little town of Ridgeview, Ohio. Two people permanently enslaved by the tyranny of fear and superstitution, facing the future with a kind of helpless dread. Two others facing the future with confidence - having escaped one of the darker places of the Twilight Zone. |
|
1st August 2022, 12:08 PM | #1103 |
Village Idiot.
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 8,368
|
I thought the guy with the oxymoronic name did it?
|
__________________
"Stellafane! My old partner in crime!" - Kelly J |
|
1st August 2022, 02:19 PM | #1104 |
Philosopher
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Colorado
Posts: 6,248
|
|
1st August 2022, 02:40 PM | #1105 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 24,921
|
|
__________________
"Reality is what's left when you cease to believe." Philip K. Dick |
|
2nd August 2022, 03:35 AM | #1106 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Oct 2013
Posts: 11,941
|
|
2nd August 2022, 04:10 AM | #1107 |
Dental Floss Tycoon
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 21,371
|
|
__________________
Counterbalance in the little town of Ridgeview, Ohio. Two people permanently enslaved by the tyranny of fear and superstitution, facing the future with a kind of helpless dread. Two others facing the future with confidence - having escaped one of the darker places of the Twilight Zone. |
|
23rd February 2024, 09:04 AM | #1108 | |||
Dental Floss Tycoon
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 21,371
|
Another 60 Minutes Australia piece on the case. This time about the fact that the evidence is finally being turned over to an FBI cold case team. I was glad to learn that the Boulder Police chief had "retired or demoted" the detectives involved in the original investigation before opening the case to outside investigation. The fact that the investigators ignored the DNA evidence clearing the family and the other incident that took place nine months later just a few kilometers away - the sexual assault of another girl who knew JonBenét and had appeared in some of the same shows she did - is just shockingly incompetent.
|
|||
__________________
Counterbalance in the little town of Ridgeview, Ohio. Two people permanently enslaved by the tyranny of fear and superstitution, facing the future with a kind of helpless dread. Two others facing the future with confidence - having escaped one of the darker places of the Twilight Zone. |
||||
23rd February 2024, 11:26 AM | #1109 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 11,311
|
confirmation bias
Mr. Ramsey was quoted: "There's nothing more dangerous than a police department that's made up its mind, because they are totally excluding anything that conflicts with that conclusion," he noted.
Every newly minted police detective needs to hear this. |
__________________
It is possible both to be right about an issue and to take oneself a little too seriously, but I would rather be reminded of that by a friend than a foe. (a tip of the hat to Foolmewunz) |
|
23rd February 2024, 11:54 AM | #1110 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 24,921
|
News article here:
JonBenét Ramsey's Killer Could Finally Be Revealed 27 Years After Young Girl Was Strangled to Death in Her Basement Maybe it's not too late for a definitive answer? |
__________________
"Reality is what's left when you cease to believe." Philip K. Dick |
|
23rd February 2024, 07:53 PM | #1111 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 14,555
|
|
__________________
Julia |
|
24th February 2024, 08:37 AM | #1112 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 11,311
|
The vagaries of memory
I remember hearing that claim from her. I also remember that John responded to it by saying that she had treated him well on the day that JonBenet's body was discovered (I don't have a citation handy). This could be after-the-fact re-remembering on the part of the paramedic.
At the risk of belaboring the obvious, the whole house should have been cleared of people the moment that it became obvious that she was missing. That her father found her body should never have happened. |
__________________
It is possible both to be right about an issue and to take oneself a little too seriously, but I would rather be reminded of that by a friend than a foe. (a tip of the hat to Foolmewunz) |
|
24th February 2024, 09:19 AM | #1113 |
Illuminator
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Arizona
Posts: 4,405
|
|
__________________
- "Who is the greater fool? The fool? Or the one arguing with the fool?" [Uknown] - "The only way to win is not to play." [Tsig quoting 'War Games'] |
|
24th February 2024, 10:36 AM | #1114 |
Dental Floss Tycoon
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 21,371
|
|
__________________
Counterbalance in the little town of Ridgeview, Ohio. Two people permanently enslaved by the tyranny of fear and superstitution, facing the future with a kind of helpless dread. Two others facing the future with confidence - having escaped one of the darker places of the Twilight Zone. |
|
24th February 2024, 10:48 AM | #1115 |
Dental Floss Tycoon
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 21,371
|
Yeah, it sounds to me like an ex post facto judgement in response to the "it was the father" bandwagon - a seized opportunity to say "I knew it all along!".
But even if she did immediately assume his guilt, so what? What does one person's inexpert opinion matter? |
__________________
Counterbalance in the little town of Ridgeview, Ohio. Two people permanently enslaved by the tyranny of fear and superstitution, facing the future with a kind of helpless dread. Two others facing the future with confidence - having escaped one of the darker places of the Twilight Zone. |
|
24th February 2024, 06:47 PM | #1116 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 14,555
|
|
__________________
Julia |
|
Thread Tools | |
|
|