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1st March 2014, 11:25 AM | #41 |
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It's been a while since I looked at this thread or thought about It. All the statements and quotations I made came from the court records at the time. If you go back in the thread you should see the links. At the moment I am busy with astrophotography so please excuse me from any further discussion on this matter.
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1st March 2014, 09:23 PM | #42 |
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I suggest this series of Chicago Tribune articles.studies on Forensics difficulties and misleadings prior to further commentary: http://www.deathpenaltyinfo.org/dpic...der-microscope
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1st March 2014, 09:27 PM | #43 |
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1st March 2014, 09:44 PM | #44 |
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Not to mention: http://www.nature.com/news/boston-sc...acklog-1.11561
I want the bad guys got and for certain crimes removed from my world with prejudice. BUT, I also want CSIs/DA and related who do not make sure the science/evidence is full and complete before even making an arrest (outside of flight risks) to be in the same danger if they use materials that are fraudulent to share that fate.. And I would like to take personal charge of that for any lawyer who let's an innocent person be punished to protect his client. |
2nd March 2014, 03:48 AM | #45 |
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No. The link in the first post in this thread is not to a court record but to the website of the Office of the Clark County Prosecuting Attorney, a rather different matter.
Secondly you have failed to address either of my points. #1 The accusation repeated by you that Cameron Willingham assaulted his wife in an attempt to procure a miscarriage. While this claim was made in court it was made during the sentencing phase not during the trial. It is denied by both Willingham and his wife. Further there was no evidence of arrest or medical treatment pertaining to this alleged assault. #2 Your description of Willingham as a violent sociopath is (apparantly, and please correct me if I'm wrong) based on the testimony of James Grigson, to wit;
Quote:
You could start here. "The Prosecutor is a servant of the people and the government. He is an advocate for both. He must be vigilant in the quest to seek out and convict the guilty, but must also ensure that the innocent are not wrongly convicted or oppressed. He must strive to preserve the public welfare and safety of all citizens. He must always seek justice." This is, ironically, from the website of the Office of the Clark County Prosecuting Attorney. |
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As human right is always something given, it always in reality reduces to the right which men give, "concede," to each other. If the right to existence is conceded to new-born children, then they have the right; if it is not conceded to them, as was the case among the Spartans and ancient Romans, then they do not have it. For only society can give or concede it to them; they themselves cannot take it, or give it to themselves. |
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6th March 2014, 12:53 PM | #46 |
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Bump. Given that Skwinty is active again. Or is this thread being left to die?
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As human right is always something given, it always in reality reduces to the right which men give, "concede," to each other. If the right to existence is conceded to new-born children, then they have the right; if it is not conceded to them, as was the case among the Spartans and ancient Romans, then they do not have it. For only society can give or concede it to them; they themselves cannot take it, or give it to themselves. |
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27th April 2015, 04:47 PM | #47 |
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Gerald Hurst passed away last month. http://www.innocenceproject.org/news...r-gerald-hurst
Shame there's not more discussion on this case here. |
27th April 2015, 05:41 PM | #48 |
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deal made with witness
The other major development in this case is that it has become clearer that the state withheld information from the defense on its jailhouse snitch witness. Why am I not surprised?
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It is possible both to be right about an issue and to take oneself a little too seriously, but I would rather be reminded of that by a friend than a foe. (a tip of the hat to Foolmewunz) |
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12th August 2020, 04:13 PM | #49 |
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A report on the Willingham and Willis cases
This link is to a report by several individuals, including John Lentini. The report covers both the Cameron Todd Willingham case and the Ernest Ray Willis case. It discusses what happens to the appearance of a room after flashover is reached and the whole room is involved. The Executive Summary states in part, "Neither the fire that killed the three Willingham children nor the fire that killed Elizabeth Grace Belue and Gail Joe Allison were incendiary fires. The artifacts examined and relied upon by the fire investigators in both cases are the kind of artifacts routinely created by accidental fires that progress beyond flashover.
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It is possible both to be right about an issue and to take oneself a little too seriously, but I would rather be reminded of that by a friend than a foe. (a tip of the hat to Foolmewunz) |
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13th August 2020, 12:34 AM | #50 |
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13th August 2020, 05:49 PM | #51 |
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The Beyler Report
Many of the nation's top arson investigators have offered their thoughts on the Willingham fire. One of the is Craig Beyler. A link to his report can be found here and here. It is a long read, but it is worth it if fire science is a personal or professional interest. The Willis case is also treated.
"FM Vasquez is unique among the investigators of both fires in his attitudes toward arson and fire scene examination. His statistics of the fraction of fires which are in fact arson are remarkable and far exceed any rational estimate. It reflects his predisposition to find arson in his cases. This directly violates NFPA 921 and professional norms in general. His quotations that “The fire tells a story, I am just the interpreter,” and “the fire does not lie, it tells me the truth,” are hardly consistent with a scientific mindset and is more characteristic of mystics or psychics. The quotes separate the findings from his own judgment and seek to make him not responsible for his own interpretation. It seems to deny the role of rational reasoning. It is an expression of fire investigation as a mystical art rather than an application of science and reason." |
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It is possible both to be right about an issue and to take oneself a little too seriously, but I would rather be reminded of that by a friend than a foe. (a tip of the hat to Foolmewunz) |
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15th August 2020, 03:14 PM | #52 |
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Another retrospective viewpoint
In Chapter 3 of the book Forensic Science Reform, Rachel Dioso-Villa wrote, "Willingham's conviction and execution have illustrated the the dangers of admitting unsound Aron evidence into court and the blind reliance inexperts who do not have a science-based foundation for their beliefs."
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It is possible both to be right about an issue and to take oneself a little too seriously, but I would rather be reminded of that by a friend than a foe. (a tip of the hat to Foolmewunz) |
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17th August 2020, 02:27 PM | #53 |
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A general problem in wrongful convictions
The previous links I have provided cast grave doubts on the original finding of arson. I hope that we can agree that this point is settled, but if not, we can discuss further, as far as I am concerned.
If I understand Skwinty's argument correctly, it is that court testimony about Mr. Willingham's behavior during the fire indicated that he did not try to save his children. The fundamental problem with this argument is that people's recollections changed over time in this case, something that David Grann's New Yorker article pointed out. What's more, this phenomenon is more general. Some fraction of this phenomenon just happens as people reinterpret (reinvent?) events in light of newer information or beliefs, but police questioning of witnesses can cause some fraction of it. |
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It is possible both to be right about an issue and to take oneself a little too seriously, but I would rather be reminded of that by a friend than a foe. (a tip of the hat to Foolmewunz) |
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18th August 2020, 12:09 AM | #54 |
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This case seemed for a long time to support the idea the exception proves the rule.
The rule is: The death penalty focusses minds and volunteers so it becomes unlikely in modern times an innocent man will be executed. The recent execution of Larry Swearingham disproves the rule as will the continuing endeavours to kill Richard Glossip. RIP Willingham and Swearingham. |
19th August 2020, 11:56 AM | #55 |
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The legal system certainly makes mistakes, and that possibiity alone is the strongest argument against the death penalty. But it doesn't sound like Swearingen is one of them. Finding the victim's belongings at the defendant's home without explanation is suspicious enough. This might not be the guy to go to the mat for.
https://www.houstonchronicle.com/new...y-14366702.php |
19th August 2020, 11:59 AM | #56 |
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19th August 2020, 02:33 PM | #57 |
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I checked and Swearingen has not joined Willingham on the Wiki list, which has just 3 other names post war.
However, he was in jail 22 days when the victim's body was discovered in so remarkable a condition pathologists declared it irreconcilable with a 25 days deceased person. I will start a thread as this is important. eta Your link is behind a paywall so maybe you could post the important indicators of guilt from it to the thread I just started http://www.internationalskeptics.com...d.php?t=346176 |
19th August 2020, 04:23 PM | #58 |
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