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Tags david bain , jeremy bamber , murder cases , New Zealand cases

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Old 30th June 2015, 12:11 AM   #81
Samson
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Originally Posted by The Atheist View Post
She's quite capable of hoisting her own petard, that woman.

Bonkers.
Thanks, will read. May be bad for my mental health at first glance.
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Old 30th June 2015, 01:13 AM   #82
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Originally Posted by Samson View Post
Thanks, will read. May be bad for my mental health at first glance.
Good grief, how has this slipped under the radar? This is where I need a picture of Captain Picard with his head in his hands.


Last edited by Hard Cheese; 30th June 2015 at 01:20 AM.
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Old 30th June 2015, 07:03 PM   #83
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Originally Posted by Hard Cheese View Post
Good grief, how has this slipped under the radar? This is where I need a picture of Captain Picard with his head in his hands.

http://i.imgur.com/ukbWZDe.jpg
My thinking is more along this line...



Whatever, it definitely warrants one of these...

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Old 1st July 2015, 06:25 AM   #84
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The song remains the same.

David Bain could not possibly have done these murders. He returned from his paper run with printer ink on his hands, allegedly went directly to the computer, and typed a message, then waited to shoot his father. But there was no forensic trace of ink.
His defence lawyer Michael Guest was under investigation for double dipping, charging a client and legal aid services. David was of course unaware of this. Effectively Guest was stone broke. The prosecution called 80 witnesses, the defence three. David Bain himself, a forensic psychologist, and Kyle Cunningham, "a young bloke who had been living at the Taieri Beach schoolhouse with Robin and Laniet at the time of the tragedy".

This case reeks to high heaven. Judith Collins should be hunted down and sacked for playing god. LashL upthread has given her opinion of Binnie, who was hired to do a job by New Zealand. Collins over ruled him, and has taxpayer blood on her hands.

Lashl's post

http://www.internationalskeptics.com...d.php?t=285834
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Old 1st July 2015, 01:30 PM   #85
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Originally Posted by Samson View Post
Collins over ruled him, and has taxpayer blood on her hands.
What on earth are you on, mate?

There wouldn't be five taxpayers in the entire country who are upset that we're not paying Baino a few mio to get on with his life and lovely wife.

Taxpayers are actually pretty happy with Big Jude on this one.
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Old 1st July 2015, 02:23 PM   #86
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Originally Posted by The Atheist View Post
What on earth are you on, mate?

There wouldn't be five taxpayers in the entire country who are upset that we're not paying Baino a few mio to get on with his life and lovely wife.

Taxpayers are actually pretty happy with Big Jude on this one.
Instant coffee.

I am reading Karam's book, and he has done the work for the police the prosecution and the taxpayer.
I haven't even got to the part where he will obviously explain dad went from room to room shooting people, leaving a bloody mess, but did not touch any blood. David of course went from room to room touching the blood, so looks like the killer. But I put on the Sherlock Holmes hat now. Try it you might look great.
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Old 1st July 2015, 04:08 PM   #87
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Originally Posted by The Atheist View Post
There wouldn't be five taxpayers in the entire country who are upset that we're not paying Baino a few mio to get on with his life and lovely wife.

Taxpayers are actually pretty happy with Big Jude on this one.
The problem is, when you start overriding compensation payments for wrongful convictions, you encourage sloppy police work and imaginative prosecutions if there are no financial consequences to such activities. I'd be happy if the millions were paid to Bain, and the Christmas party and travel junket budgets for the Police, MOJ and Judith Collins were cut by a similar amount.
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Old 1st July 2015, 04:17 PM   #88
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Originally Posted by Hard Cheese View Post
The problem is, when you start overriding compensation payments for wrongful convictions, you encourage sloppy police work and imaginative prosecutions if there are no financial consequences to such activities. I'd be happy if the millions were paid to Bain, and the Christmas party and travel junket budgets for the Police, MOJ and Judith Collins were cut by a similar amount.
I think we are dealing in New Zealand with an extremely egregious and disgraceful series of public lynchings of innocent people, with a smugness in Wellington that is frankly disgusting. I believe there is a way forward with a smart analysis of these cases, that follow the same well worn pattern as the many American cases. There is no great rush to get the analysis correct and focussed, but I am sure it can be achieved.
The media in New Zealand are woefully soft on these matters, I guess because they value their networks ahead of justice.
It is my increasing belief that doubtful cases are almost always cases of wrongful convictions.
I might try to understand John Barlowe again.
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Old 2nd July 2015, 12:51 AM   #89
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The problem I have is you side with every single one Samson.

There is no way any of them did it kind of thing.
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Old 2nd July 2015, 03:06 AM   #90
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Many of them may not have.

Baino is not one of them.

There is only possible murder perpetrator. And he can never again be charged with the crime.

Neat.
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Old 2nd July 2015, 03:16 AM   #91
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Originally Posted by cullennz View Post
The problem I have is you side with every single one Samson.

There is no way any of them did it kind of thing.
You are suffering from confirmation bias. There are serious questions about all of the convictions threaded in this section, that's why they're here and that is why we are debating them them

I'm quite sure that samson is happy enough that.....

Stuart Murray Wilson,
George Charlie Baker,
Peter Steven Waihape,
Clayton Weatherston,
Jason Somerville,
Michael Scott Wallace
Shane Randle
Anthony Paul Doyle
Antonie Dixon
David Konia
Michael John Curran
Malcolm Rewa
Joseph Stephenson Thompson
Graeme Burton
Bruce Thomas Howse
William Bell

....have all been rightfully convicted for their heinous crimes
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Old 2nd July 2015, 03:39 AM   #92
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Originally Posted by smartcooky View Post
You are suffering from confirmation bias. There are serious questions about all of the convictions threaded in this section, that's why they're here and that is why we are debating them them

I'm quite sure that samson is happy enough that.....

Stuart Murray Wilson,
George Charlie Baker,
Peter Steven Waihape,
Clayton Weatherston,
Jason Somerville,
Michael Scott Wallace
Shane Randle
Anthony Paul Doyle
Antonie Dixon
David Konia
Michael John Curran
Malcolm Rewa
Joseph Stephenson Thompson
Graeme Burton
Bruce Thomas Howse
William Bell

....have all been rightfully convicted for their heinous crimes

Im talking about the others. Bain etc
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Old 2nd July 2015, 06:08 AM   #93
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Originally Posted by smartcooky View Post
You are suffering from confirmation bias. There are serious questions about all of the convictions threaded in this section, that's why they're here and that is why we are debating them them

I'm quite sure that samson is happy enough that.....

Stuart Murray Wilson,
George Charlie Baker,
Peter Steven Waihape,
Clayton Weatherston,
Jason Somerville,
Michael Scott Wallace
Shane Randle
Anthony Paul Doyle
Antonie Dixon
David Konia
Michael John Curran
Malcolm Rewa
Joseph Stephenson Thompson
Graeme Burton
Bruce Thomas Howse
William Bell

....have all been rightfully convicted for their heinous crimes
Originally Posted by cullennz View Post
Im talking about the others. Bain etc
Same pageism.

I am interested in constructing a venn diagram, and working out why Ellis, Pope, Tipping, France, McNicholl, Collins, Adams, Cummings,

Oh the names missing will be filled in.
Smartcooky, Atheist, Hard Cheese, Cullennz and so on.

This job is straightforward.
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Old 10th October 2015, 12:40 PM   #94
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Here is the email that Justice Binnie sent in rebutting the arrant nonsense written by Mr Fisher, the hired gun and retired judge retained by the disgraced Judith Collins.

Note he makes the following points.
1. David Bain is factually innocent.
2. Fisher does not know or claim to know the relevant evidence.
3. He claims Binnie did not use an "osmotic" (my paraphrased brief term) process where he would assemble the evidence in totality and ignore an inconvenient data point.
4. All parties agree that the killer made the luminol footprint and Robin Bain could not be near the locale according to the prosecution.
5. The print was way too short for David Bain to have made it, but correct length for Robin.
6. Binnie is engaged with evidential and factual substance, but Fisher requires legal form to bury the compensation claim.

Another very black mark for New Zealand and its woeful compliance with international standards of justice.

Binnie writes as though he understands the correct way to unravel a crime case.

file:///C:/Users/Admin.Admin-PC/Downloads/07%20Response%20from%20Justice%20Binnie%20(1).pdf
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Old 10th October 2015, 12:51 PM   #95
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That's your desktop link!
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Old 10th October 2015, 12:53 PM   #96
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If he can prove he didn't do it he gets compo'. Simple

But he won't take the stand because he is guilty
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Old 10th October 2015, 01:28 PM   #97
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Ok - I'll play.

Originally Posted by Samson View Post
Note he makes the following points.
1. David Bain is factually innocent.
Interesting legal use of the word "factual" because it is not. It is factual in terms of the evidence presented, but only because the cops screwed up in not preserving the damned evidence.

Originally Posted by Samson View Post
5. The print was way too short for David Bain to have made it, but correct length for Robin.
Or, more correctly, the dumb pig who measured it was even dumber than the average cop and doesn't know the difference between an incomplete footprint and a partial footprint.


Originally Posted by Samson View Post
Another very black mark for New Zealand and its woeful compliance with international standards of justice.

The justice system worked fine - it was the cops, not justice, who screwed it up. Evidence must be preserved.

It wasn't.
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Old 10th October 2015, 01:42 PM   #98
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Originally Posted by The Atheist View Post
That's your desktop link!
Oh ok, a bit tough for me. Copy that text and post to google and it works.
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Old 10th October 2015, 01:46 PM   #99
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Originally Posted by cullennz View Post
If he can prove he didn't do it he gets compo'. Simple

But he won't take the stand because he is guilty
He took the stand at the first show trial. Look how that worked out for him. Amanda Knox took the stand. Look how that worked out for her.

Until you read the work of unpaid activists you will be forever deceived by the closed shop in NZ.

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Old 10th October 2015, 02:18 PM   #100
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Just prove he didn't do it. This isn't rocket science
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Old 10th October 2015, 02:21 PM   #101
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Can't be done, hence the loose usage of the term "factual" in this case.

That said, he probably deserves compo for the stupid pigs screwing the case up so badly.

Yet again.

If they had preserved the flaming evidence, this wouldn't have happened.
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Old 10th October 2015, 02:41 PM   #102
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Originally Posted by cullennz View Post
Just prove he didn't do it. This isn't rocket science
Originally Posted by The Atheist View Post
Can't be done, hence the loose usage of the term "factual" in this case.

That said, he probably deserves compo for the stupid pigs screwing the case up so badly.

Yet again.

If they had preserved the flaming evidence, this wouldn't have happened.
Oh yes it can. By the traditional multiple data points that infest these cases.
From memory
1. The glass lens was provably not there in the original crime scene.
2. The luminol footprint could not be contained within the dimensions of Davis's much longer foot.
3. The computer was proved to be turmed on a few minutes before David was clocked walking into the house.
4. There was blood photographed on Robin Bain's hands.
5. Robin had motive and opportunity. He had piles of unmarked student work in his caravan. He had essentially abandoned teaching. He was screwing his daughter, and she was about to bust him for it.
6. There was blood inside the silencer. Possible only from a contact shot.
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Old 10th October 2015, 02:45 PM   #103
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Originally Posted by marplots View Post
Rats. I thought it was David Blaine, in which case the answer would have been, "Hell no!"
Thought the exact same haha.
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Old 10th October 2015, 03:30 PM   #104
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Originally Posted by Samson View Post
Oh yes it can. By the traditional multiple data points that infest these cases.
From memory
1. The glass lens was provably not there in the original crime scene.
2. The luminol footprint could not be contained within the dimensions of Davis's much longer foot.
3. The computer was proved to be turmed on a few minutes before David was clocked walking into the house.
4. There was blood photographed on Robin Bain's hands.
5. Robin had motive and opportunity. He had piles of unmarked student work in his caravan. He had essentially abandoned teaching. He was screwing his daughter, and she was about to bust him for it.
6. There was blood inside the silencer. Possible only from a contact shot.
Did he have seven foot arms to shoot himself?

Why did he wash his clothes?

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Old 10th October 2015, 03:53 PM   #105
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Originally Posted by cullennz View Post
Did he have seven foot arms to shoot himself?

Why did he wash his clothes?

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The add on silencer was no problem for a tall man. The crime is much more logical, you do not want to survive and try to explain a quintuple homicide, but quadruple homicide suicide tidies the loose ends.

On the blood in the silencer, here is something to refute.

Having had a broadcasting complaint upheld against him, Bryan Bruce is reported to be keen to make another 'documentary,' I guess he needs the work. He comes across confident in his ability to do better than last time without realising (or admitting) that he didn't touch upon key evidence against Robin Bain, a number of items for example, the upward trajectory shot and no shielding of the blood spatter that showed no one else was present - bit hard to be a murder Bryan when old daddy was there by himself.
Also the blood and brain matter found deep inside the barrel, old Bryan apparently didn't want to talk about this because he didn't have the necessary shadowing and appropriate music, so it remains a problem for Bryan how to explain such strong forensic proof against old daddy, particularly if Bryan wanted to switch back (why not - all the other hangbainers have tried it) to a close contact shot - because a close contact shot would have meant the spatter was shielded by the gunman, but Bryan knows there was no gunman there, and no appropriate music or shadow - so he just left it out and chased a photo-copier salesman instead. Bryan didn't want to talk about that spatter on Robin's shoes occluded as being from his own wound (that proved it Bryan, that it was daddy what done it - so you left that out as well.)

Also I can understand why Bryan left the strip search of David out because it showed that David was a suspect from the outset but more importantly that he didn't have any scratches on his chest. Well, I've got an idea for ya Bryan, how about a show called 'The Bain Murders - what I left out.' I'd watch that.

Nostalgia-NZ I hope you don't mind me posting that. Your work is of far too high a quality to languish.


Look, that same Bryan Bruce that solved the Lundy case before the plods, by shifting from one completely impossible scenario to another.

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Old 10th October 2015, 04:03 PM   #106
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Originally Posted by Samson View Post
Oh yes it can. By the traditional multiple data points that infest these cases.
From memory
1. The glass lens was provably not there in the original crime scene.
Irrelevant and does not speak to either guilt or innocence, but dirty cops.

Originally Posted by Samson View Post
2. The luminol footprint could not be contained within the dimensions of Davis's much longer foot.
The pig in charge was a moron - that is abundantly clear from his evidence and statements. Without having the actual footprint, anything else is speculation. The blood-soaked sock used in tests can not have been the same as the one used - there is no possible way of knowing how much blood was on it, so scientifically, replication is impossible. If the carpet still existed, those questions would be answerable.

Certainly works for a not guilty verdict, but does not speak to innocence.

Originally Posted by Samson View Post
3. The computer was proved to be turmed on a few minutes before David was clocked walking into the house.
Clocked by whom? There is no evidence to show the actual time David arrived home.

Originally Posted by Samson View Post
4. There was blood photographed on Robin Bain's hands.
Which, considering they were dead at the time, wouldn't have been too hard to contaminate.

Where were the signs of a life-and-death struggle with the 14 yo boy?

Originally Posted by Samson View Post
5. Robin had motive and opportunity. He had piles of unmarked student work in his caravan. He had essentially abandoned teaching. He was screwing his daughter, and she was about to bust him for it.
Oh yeah, highly verifiable. How convenient that she was "just about" to report it after 'years and years' of abuse.

To me, it's as much a position against Baino as Robin.

Baino had the opportunity without doubt, and maybe the thought of it all coming out was too much for him?

Also, why would Robin say that David was the only one who deserved to live? What was wrong with the 14 yo? Was he a sinner? Baino was a 23 yo working part time because he was a loser with no skills.

He has every reason to commit the murders. In a single bound, his family is gone from the world, he gets all the sympathy and help a bereaved young man could expect and starts his life anew.

Short of a dozen years in the slammer, that's exactly where he is right now.

Originally Posted by Samson View Post
6. There was blood inside the silencer. Possible only from a contact shot.
Which Robin somehow fired in a means guaranteed to look like a murder.

If you buy the idea that Robin meant to not kill David and was killing himself, the whole thing falls to bits, because if that was his well thought-out intent, he would have made 100% sure his own death was nothing else but suicide.

He washed his socks, but didn't think setting it up to look like a murder would be counter-productive?

The enormous difference between Lundy and Bain (other than Baino getting away with it) is that the evidence shows Lundy cannot be guilty.

No evidence at all exists which exonerates David Bain.
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Old 10th October 2015, 04:20 PM   #107
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Originally Posted by The Atheist View Post
Irrelevant and does not speak to either guilt or innocence, but dirty cops.



The pig in charge was a moron - that is abundantly clear from his evidence and statements. Without having the actual footprint, anything else is speculation. The blood-soaked sock used in tests can not have been the same as the one used - there is no possible way of knowing how much blood was on it, so scientifically, replication is impossible. If the carpet still existed, those questions would be answerable.

Certainly works for a not guilty verdict, but does not speak to innocence.



Clocked by whom? There is no evidence to show the actual time David arrived home.



Which, considering they were dead at the time, wouldn't have been too hard to contaminate.

Where were the signs of a life-and-death struggle with the 14 yo boy?



Oh yeah, highly verifiable. How convenient that she was "just about" to report it after 'years and years' of abuse.

To me, it's as much a position against Baino as Robin.

Baino had the opportunity without doubt, and maybe the thought of it all coming out was too much for him?

Also, why would Robin say that David was the only one who deserved to live? What was wrong with the 14 yo? Was he a sinner? Baino was a 23 yo working part time because he was a loser with no skills.

He has every reason to commit the murders. In a single bound, his family is gone from the world, he gets all the sympathy and help a bereaved young man could expect and starts his life anew.

Short of a dozen years in the slammer, that's exactly where he is right now.



Which Robin somehow fired in a means guaranteed to look like a murder.

If you buy the idea that Robin meant to not kill David and was killing himself, the whole thing falls to bits, because if that was his well thought-out intent, he would have made 100% sure his own death was nothing else but suicide.

He washed his socks, but didn't think setting it up to look like a murder would be counter-productive?

The enormous difference between Lundy and Bain (other than Baino getting away with it) is that the evidence shows Lundy cannot be guilty.

No evidence at all exists which exonerates David Bain.
Since you categorically refuse to read Joe's book you will remain forever deceived. The detail is stunning. David Bain is innocent by all the data points that make it murder suicide. Remember how many of these cases there are in a short period.
Just his proof that the computer was turned on before David returned from his paper round is sufficient proof, and there are many of those. Have you seen the photographs of the blood on Robin's hands, and do you know that blood was not tested? It occupied that part of the palm near the wrist that the opera glove did not protect.
You got this one wrong, but that is excusable. Everyone knew he was guilty, and Lundy is guilty. That is how this self satisfied little country rolls. They will not research.
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Old 10th October 2015, 04:48 PM   #108
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House full of blown apart people and the dad has a bit of blood on one hand

Why did he wash his clothes?

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Old 10th October 2015, 04:56 PM   #109
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Originally Posted by Samson View Post
Since you categorically refuse to read Joe's book you will remain forever deceived. The detail is stunning.
Unless the evidence in the book is substantially different to that offered at the second trial - and I do not believe that is the case - your statement cannot be correct.

Originally Posted by Samson View Post
Just his proof that the computer was turned on before David returned from his paper round is sufficient proof, and there are many of those.
This is where you're ignoring reality.

There is no proof of when David arrived home. Ergo, there is no proof he didn't switch it on and type the message.

Originally Posted by Samson View Post
That is how this self satisfied little country rolls. They will not research.
Bollocks, and you know that I completely changed my mind on Lundy when presented with evidence.

In Baino's case, there is none, unless you already have the opinion that he is not guilty and Robin did it. The evidence does not stack up that Robin committed the murders.

Karam certainly exposed massive holes in both police evidence and procedure, but in terms of providing evidence of innocence, Karam's about as good at that as he was at kicking goals.
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Old 10th October 2015, 05:08 PM   #110
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Pretty simple. A book will always be swayed by the authors opinion
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Old 10th October 2015, 05:08 PM   #111
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Originally Posted by The Atheist View Post
Unless the evidence in the book is substantially different to that offered at the second trial - and I do not believe that is the case - your statement cannot be correct.



This is where you're ignoring reality.

There is no proof of when David arrived home. Ergo, there is no proof he didn't switch it on and type the message.



Bollocks, and you know that I completely changed my mind on Lundy when presented with evidence.

In Baino's case, there is none, unless you already have the opinion that he is not guilty and Robin did it. The evidence does not stack up that Robin committed the murders.

Karam certainly exposed massive holes in both police evidence and procedure, but in terms of providing evidence of innocence, Karam's about as good at that as he was at kicking goals.
Atheist:
I consider it completely impossible to read Joe's book cover to cover and not conclude he is stone cold innocent. Japan would have a better chance of beating South Africa again in the next two decades. Get it from the library. When I returned the copy they said it was off to Nelson. You can sense my intellectual dna by touching it.
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Old 10th October 2015, 05:13 PM   #112
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He just has to prove he didn't do it
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Old 10th October 2015, 05:38 PM   #113
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Originally Posted by cullennz View Post
He just has to prove he didn't do it
The proof is in Joe's book. There are critical reasoning paths that make it clear. It makes no sense to solve a crime with hearsay when fifteen year of solid scientific research proves innocence.
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Old 10th October 2015, 05:43 PM   #114
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Joe is the most madly convinced person on earth he is innocent.

Forgive me if I stick to non biased types of media
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Old 10th October 2015, 05:46 PM   #115
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I don't know enough about this case to comment, but can someone explain why NZ allows the decrepit bunch of Lords, Bishops and politicians called the Privy Council to over-rule decisions of its highest courts? Kick the Privy Council into touch, for goodness sake.
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Old 10th October 2015, 05:47 PM   #116
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Originally Posted by Samson View Post
Atheist:
I consider it completely impossible to read Joe's book cover to cover and not conclude he is stone cold innocent.
That's you, mate.

Originally Posted by Samson View Post
You can sense my intellectual dna by touching it.
This:

Originally Posted by cullennz View Post
He just has to prove he didn't do it
You gave it your best shot, and I doubt you'd try to claim any better knwoledge than the judicial review. It does claim he is "factually innocent".

Except, having seen the best evidence, I conclude two things only:

1 The NZ Police are the biggest, thickest bunch of cops on the planet. Not actually evil, like US/China cops, but utter morons. Thicko, hicks that shouldn't have a job, let alone be given power.

2 There is no evidence that proves beyond any doubt that David is not the killer. At very best, you can make a case that it's Robin, but that case does not stack up, and even the defence admits it was one or t'other.
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Old 10th October 2015, 05:52 PM   #117
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Originally Posted by lionking View Post
I don't know enough about this case to comment, but can someone explain why NZ allows the decrepit bunch of Lords, Bishops and politicians called the Privy Council to over-rule decisions of its highest courts? Kick the Privy Council into touch, for goodness sake.
We have.
Their minds are orders of magnitude better than the morons that have administered 9 wrongful findings by juries here, so it was natural they had to go.
They were showing up our dearth of talent. And this does not suit successive justice ministers here. They are keen to keep 'em locked up. Ask Arthur Thomas, David Tamihere, Teina Pora, David Bain, Peter Ellis, Scott Watson, Mark Lundy and Ewen MacDonald. (The last fluked his way through the process).

Oh and then ask Lindy Chamberlain how it feels.
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Old 10th October 2015, 05:53 PM   #118
cullennz
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Originally Posted by lionking View Post
I don't know enough about this case to comment, but can someone explain why NZ allows the decrepit bunch of Lords, Bishops and politicians called the Privy Council to over-rule decisions of its highest courts? Kick the Privy Council into touch, for goodness sake.
Lost them a while ago

Just a few major cases date from before and go there

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Old 10th October 2015, 05:55 PM   #119
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Originally Posted by The Atheist View Post
That's you, mate.



This:



You gave it your best shot, and I doubt you'd try to claim any better knwoledge than the judicial review. It does claim he is "factually innocent".

Except, having seen the best evidence, I conclude two things only:

1 The NZ Police are the biggest, thickest bunch of cops on the planet. Not actually evil, like US/China cops, but utter morons. Thicko, hicks that shouldn't have a job, let alone be given power.

2 There is no evidence that proves beyond any doubt that David is not the killer. At very best, you can make a case that it's Robin, but that case does not stack up, and even the defence admits it was one or t'other.
What judicial review?
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Old 10th October 2015, 05:56 PM   #120
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Originally Posted by cullennz View Post
Lost them a while ago

Just a few major cases date from before and go there

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Thanks. Must have been later than 2007 wouldn't it? That's when this csae was referred.
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