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10th October 2015, 06:10 PM | #121 |
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10th October 2015, 06:13 PM | #122 |
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10th October 2015, 06:15 PM | #123 |
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10th October 2015, 06:16 PM | #124 |
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10th October 2015, 06:16 PM | #125 |
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10th October 2015, 06:19 PM | #126 |
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Do you remember when that little Chinese girl got left at the airport
They were doing tv interviews in front of the mums car for about two day till some one thought to look in the boot Sent from my GT-S6802 using Tapatalk 2 |
10th October 2015, 07:19 PM | #127 |
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You'll never find me saying anything positive about Collins.
Binnie and Fisher seem to work across each other, both quoting precedents, but the main thing is that the evidence is not clear. That point is unarguable. Bingo! Yes, I do recall that case and it's a great example. They can't even do the obvious things. I can even sum them up in a single word: dysfunctional. |
10th October 2015, 07:30 PM | #128 |
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Why doesn't Bain do an interview with Joe at his side?
And say what happened? Would do wonders for his compo claim |
8th December 2015, 02:53 AM | #129 |
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No-one had a better motive that Robin for killing his family. He had been well thought of and a respected leader in his community, but his world had come tumbling down. His career was in ruins, he was separated from his wife and lived in a squalid little caravan parked outside of the house, and then came the final insult... his barely-out-of-school prostitute daughter Laniet was about to expose to the world that it was all a façade, by blowing the whistle on Robin's dirty little secret; that he was a chronic kiddie-fiddler who had been sexually abusing her for many years.
At one time, Robin had been a very calm and considered person but as his life became a trash pit, so he underwent a huge change in personality becoming prone to fits of rage and anger. While much of the forensics point to David, they were so badly compromised by the appalling lack of procedural competence of the Dunedin police crime scene unit, that much of it was all but unusable. A big deal was made of David's fingerprints in blood on the rifle, but in the end, the forensic scientists were unable to determine if it was human or animal blood. If Police were to print my Remington 700 (.270) they would likely find my fingerprints in blood all over it. I use to use it for for deer hunting; you will struggle to gut a deer without getting blood on your hands.. Both David and Robin used that gun for hunting too, so that is no big deal at all.. in fact, I would be surprised in the rifle didn't have David's fingerprints on it. |
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8th December 2015, 09:39 AM | #130 |
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This completely correct.The pattern of this wrongful conviction is repeated a thousand fold. Collins can look forward to a detailed email from me on this and the other cases this appalling specimen of humanity understands but would rather play the red tailed devil on.
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8th December 2015, 10:59 AM | #131 |
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Sorry, but I used almost exactly that as an analogy the other day. And you're still wrong on reading the case. This is the only part that matters:
Quote:
But it isn't easy being a cop and I truly believe we get the police society deserves. If we only had those guys off TV working on our cases, the Bain/Thomas saga wouldn't still be running in our justice system. I just can't wait for the George Tairoa case to come up. You just know it's going to be another hotbed of scant evidence and lack of popularity. |
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8th December 2015, 03:04 PM | #132 |
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I suspect the police believed Bain was guilty, but we do not deserve a police force who reached a conclusion a commoner like Joe Karam could so easily disprove. As I keep saying, if you read his book, you will no longer be able to agree with the police allegation. But you say you are not interested in his book. Activists usually write books because they can prove their findings. Bitter Hill for Arthur Thomas, Lynley Hood for Peter Ellis, Ian Wishart for Tamihere, Mike White for Ewan MacDonald, Keith Hunter for Scott MacDonald, the unpublished book by Geoff Levick for Mark Lundy, a score of books for Amanda Knox.
Interestingly I see no book for John Barlowe. Tairoa has just pleaded not guilty. |
8th December 2015, 04:28 PM | #133 |
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Ian Wishart? The born-again creationist, conspiracist nerk who believes in UFOs and is as good as David Icke at finding facts?
If he's defending Tamihere, then that would say it all for me. Wishart is a lying little worm and that's all there is to it. If you believe something he's written, you're being lied to. |
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8th December 2015, 05:02 PM | #134 |
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I suspect you and I agree that everything since big bang is a subset of chance so my interest in Wishart is restricted to cases where he analyses things sensibly because he has the time. Preceding all these cases is Wallace James Bolton, last man hanged in 1957. Wishart argues convincingly he was innocent. David Bain is part of this sequence and why there is not a PhD thesis to explain these cases to your countrymen is beyond me.
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8th December 2015, 06:11 PM | #135 |
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Big deal - he's a very convincing liar.
Lots of people have been sucked into his web of made-up stories. He "knows" who killed the Kahui twins as well. Like I said, a snivelling piece of excrement not deserving of life. It's people like him that make me want to renounce my anti-violence stance, because if ever there were a bloke in NZ needing a good forcible attitude adjustment, it's Ian Wishart. |
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9th December 2015, 03:37 AM | #136 |
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9th December 2015, 01:01 PM | #137 |
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Are there any murderers locked up in NZ that you don't believe are innocent?
The Wishart story on Tamihere is 100% fabrication. I am amazed that you're prepared to believe him, but it does highlight your bias towards anyone claiming innocence, despite Wishart being insane and a conspiracist. Ian Wishart truly believes: Climate change isn't happening. (despite enormous evidence) A Chinese spy bought Vector Energy in 2006 (despite the fact that AECT still owns it) That Darwin was wrong and a god created the universe and earth, fully built. That gayness is a choice. In Noah's flood. That Heidi Paakkonen was still alive when Tamihere was arrested. He may believe the moon landings happened, but if so, it's possibly the only true fact he believes. |
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9th December 2015, 02:00 PM | #138 |
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Hard Cheese and I batted around the Tamihere case, worth reviving the thread if you know something I don't. I haven't read Wishart on that case, but really Tamihere was arrested because he was in the car like Bain was in the house. We must stay on topic though, much as I would like to discuss other failings of Latta and Wishart as a path to discrediting their views on the crime cases. .
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9th December 2015, 08:44 PM | #139 |
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From my personal perspective Wrongly Convicted Arthur Allan Thomas Scott Watson Mark Lundy Teina Pora David Dougherty Guilty and Convicted Malcolm Rewa Clayton Weatherston Glenn McNeill Jules Mikus Graeme Burton Bailey Junior Kurariki William Dwyane Bell Rightly Exonerated Ewan McKenzie Undecided David Bain John Barlow Murray Kestle |
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9th December 2015, 09:49 PM | #140 |
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No argument with any of those.
Or them. What a list of shame - some absurdly psychopathic people on that list. Yep. I'm very confident on Baino and even more so on Barlow. I guess it's possible someone else could have killed the Thomases, but the odds of it happening the way it would have had to to implicate Barlow must be trillions to one against. Also, there's some pretty strong hearsay evidence that Thomas was about to nail Barlow's hide to the wall. Those guys had lots of loans that never got written in any books. I'd never heard of Kestle. He's been out of jail for long enough that if he were ever going to prove his innocence, you'd think it would have happened by now. Interesting case, from a very cursory scan. |
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10th December 2015, 01:53 AM | #141 |
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10th December 2015, 02:06 AM | #142 |
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10th December 2015, 02:25 AM | #143 |
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I have replied in the David Tamihere thread so as not to further derail this one
http://www.internationalskeptics.com...3#post11022773 |
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17th February 2016, 11:52 AM | #146 |
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17th February 2016, 12:37 PM | #147 |
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The only thing I have any interest in reading by or about Joe Karam is his death notice, and it won't be soon enough for my liking.
As to fiction, you might like to consider your own words first: Yeah, it was amazing how he managed to commit suicide so cunningly that he was still able to alter the scene after he died. That level of clever will always win. Staged suicide my backside. Curious to know - how did he manage to shoot himself in the back of the head? Were his arms unusually long? Given the amount of blood around, I'm not sure what you think this proves beyond "people bleed when shot". Utter nonsense, long since discredited. |
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17th February 2016, 01:46 PM | #148 |
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As the teacher used to say, you are guessing, Atheist.
It is not easy to create a staged suicide, in fact as close to impossible as it comes. If it walks and quacks like a duck, that's what you have. Still, a victory for Miss Piggy Collins. That should make your day. |
17th February 2016, 03:03 PM | #149 |
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Nope. Backed by evidence, as you yourself state:
And in Robin's case no effort was made to make it look very suicidal. It was just another example of thick pigs not doing their job because they were wetting their pants at having nailed the perpetrator. That's why the evidence wasn't preserved. I find it quite ironic that Baino got out for exactly the opposite reason to A A Thomas. Thomas was fitted up by planting false evidence - Baino was so clearly the killer that they failed to keep the actual evidence. Quite right! Baino shoots like one as well. Not quite. Him going back to jail for another 40 years would be a good outcome. Paying him would have been a worse outcome than his wandering about, so it's a small consolation, but a valid one. |
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17th February 2016, 05:59 PM | #150 |
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17th February 2016, 08:02 PM | #151 |
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Ah, I'm beginning to see your problem.
We decide guilt & innocence by evidence and facts on this planet, not what some hacked out ex-All Black, league turncoat, short-man's syndrome dickhead creates in his own mind. If the judges who have reviewed the case see Baino as "not innocent" that's factual enough for me. That is a spectacularly silly statement. "Logic" would dictate fathers not killing their own babies. "Logic" would dictate that 11 year olds do not commit murder. Logic is waaaay overrated when you're talking about humans, a completely illogical species. |
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17th February 2016, 08:44 PM | #152 |
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Well, I have a different take on this.
Regardless of whether I think Bain killed his family (I am 50/50 on that, I favour the murder-suicide scenario - Robin killed his family, David killed his father), I am somewhat disturbed by a number aspects of the dubiousness of the process here. Firstly, I consider it a gross injustice that a person, having been found not-guilty, has to further prove their innocence. The question of guilt or innocence should rest solely at trial, and once a person has been found not guilty, they're NOT GUILTY... Period!. The facts are that Bain was found not guilty at his retrial. For me, that should mean the guilty verdict in the first trial was automatically wrong, and he should never have been sent to jail in the first place. Secondly, the Government has clearly gone judge-shopping to get the decision they wanted. I have no doubt that they would not have gone past the first judge if they had got what they wanted first up, just as I am sure they would have kept shopping for new judges if they kept getting told what they didn't want to hear. I liken this to the forensics in the Mark Lundy case where the Police shopped internationally until they found some dubious forensic "gun-for-hire" scientist who was willing to tell them what they wanted to hear. Thirdly, I disagree with the whole process of making compensation a political decision. The question of compensation should be dealt with as a separate phase in the retrial, in much the same way that a sentencing phase is part of a murder trial. After the accused is found not guilty, the judge retires to consider the question of compensation. Alternatively, it could be dealt with by a panel of five judges of the supreme court, whose decision is final and cannot be appealed by either party. The level of compensation would roughly follow the margin of their decisions.. 5-0 would indicate a large compensation, 4-1 would be less, 3-2 would be even less. |
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17th February 2016, 09:04 PM | #153 |
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Except civil and court cases differ, so there's good precedent for compensation. It isn't always awarded.
It's one time I'm very happy the decision is political. The first judgement would have seen Baino pocketing about a million for each of his victims, and I think that would be immensely unreasonable. |
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17th February 2016, 09:13 PM | #154 |
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This from wiki all looks pretty familiar after reading Joe's book.
After a year long investigation, Binnie concluded, in a 180-page report,[66] that Dunedin's police had made "egregious errors" and that there were "numerous instances" of investigative ineptitude that led directly to the wrongful conviction. In particular, he described the failure of the Crown to preserve evidence in the murder investigation, by burning down the house, as one of the "extraordinary circumstances" that the Cabinet should take into account.[67] Another was the failure of the police to test Robin’s hands and clothing for residue of firearms discharge.[68] Police also failed to investigate information that Laniet had accused her father of incest and planned to expose him to the rest of the family and failed to follow up on evidence of Robin Bain’s mental instability despite the Detectives Manual specifically instructing police to pursue the issue of motive. They also misled the first jury on where the lens of David's spectacles was found and knowingly gave the jury the wrong time for the switching on of the family computer. Altogether, Binnie identified 12 different mistakes or failings by the police.[69] Binnie decided the evidence established that "the miscarriage of justice was the direct result of a police investigation characterised by carelessness and lack of due diligence"[70] and wrote: "in what is essentially a circumstantial case, it is noteworthy that the Police chose to exclude the one suspect (Robin) who was alleged to have a plausible if challenged motive, and pursue for 15 years the other suspect (David) for whom they had found no motive whatsoever."[71] He concluded that "on the balance of probabilities" Bain was innocent of the murders in 1994 and should be paid compensation for wrongful conviction and imprisonment.[72] Also Judge Binnie subsequently noted that "The 2009 jury did not reach a different conclusion on the same record [as the first trial]; it was presented with a very different and far more extensive factual picture, and the testimony of numerous additional experts of impressive credentials, than had been made available to the jury in 1995.[54] Atheist, You clearly decided early and have left nothing to chance by closing your ears and eyes since. I see the same forensic pattern as Knox, Lundy, Faria, Avery, Thomas, Pora, Cosima and Sabrina Misseri and the list goes on and on. You have this one wrong, the old man shot himself. |
17th February 2016, 10:01 PM | #155 |
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Your take and my take are exactly the same. I agree 100% with every one of your points.
Either you're found guilty or not guilty by the court, any opinion on the case made outside the court is irrelevant. No matter how many retired judges they get to assess the case, their opinions are just that, and have no legal standing. Bain was found not guilty, therefore was wrongly imprisoned, therefore is due compensation. |
17th February 2016, 10:13 PM | #156 |
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Reading the tea leaves, Bain will get his compensation. Karam and Adams seem to be communicating OK. And it is even possible Adams has the smarts to see motive and opportunity do matter. It is also possible she will enjoy shafting Collins as another pretender to the crown.
It might even be a good training run for the Lundy compensation.... |
17th February 2016, 11:20 PM | #157 |
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No, and you know for certain what you're saying is incorrect, because I publicly admitted that evidence had made me change my mind on Lundy and I am now utterly convinced of his innocence and you know that was not the case at the start.
With Bain, you are looking at the evidence incorrectly and accepting the made up crap that Karam spewed all over his book. And that's the crux of the matter. The idiotic morons that pass for pigs in NZ have themselves entirely to blame for the verdict. They failed to protect the damned evidence that proved beyond any doubt that Robin was murdered. I'll bet a whole truckload of chocolate fish against your dead match you're completely wrong. It would be a disaster for National and will not happen. Public opinion is split and will definitely sway back into the guilty camp after the leak and I don't think there's a snowball's chance in hell Key would allow it. |
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17th February 2016, 11:30 PM | #158 |
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18th February 2016, 12:37 AM | #159 |
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Part of me thinks we should just give the freaky, psycho killer a mill just so I don't have to hear about it anymore.
On the premise he says what happened |
18th February 2016, 01:08 AM | #160 |
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Binnie said this.
37. It strikes me as inherently implausible that David Bain, however incompetent, would kill four people, then take time out to do a paper route in clothes smeared in blood (albeit covered in part by a red sweat shirt), anxious to be seen by customers along the way, leaving the scene of the massacre open to discovery by Robin before his return.**Robin was often up and about the house soon after his alarm went off at 6.30 am.15**Occasionally Robin was up earlier.16**He sometimes used a downstairs door to come in from the caravan.17**This would have led him directly to the scene of the murders.**Had Robin done this on the morning of 20 June, he would immediately have discovered the carnage while David was out, and called the Police before David got home.*** 38. Such a mindless “four before one after” plan attributed to David, a university student, is just not credible in the absence of (i) any expert evidence that David suffered from an abnormality of the mind or (ii) possessed sub‐normal intelligence.*** |
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