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27th February 2015, 04:57 PM | #241 |
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We agree, but I do see the possibility that the killer(s) turned off the computer along with lights, after committing the crime, so no one would notice lights on late at night.
I read these murders as cold and rational. They weren't necessarily the work of a professional killer, but they easily could have been. |
27th February 2015, 05:17 PM | #242 |
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I agree with your assessment but not your conclusion, especially as Lundy's motive is wholly unsatisfactory. It's not enough to say "it could only be Lundy" and then jump through hoops to break a good alibi and convict him on no evidence.
I think there's something we know nothing about, which would explain the crime. |
27th February 2015, 05:26 PM | #243 |
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How?
Quote:
Quote:
If an accomplice/hitman did do the crime, then you may not have to actually find the accomplice/hitman in person, but you would certainly have to prove that one was involved, e.g. a money trail, telephone calls, emails, etc. The rules of evidence do not allow the prosecution to simply say, "oh he's got an alibi so an accomplice/htman must have done it for him".
Quote:
It only looks like planning if Lundy actually did it. What if this was a hit on Lundy, and they had planned to kill both the Lundy adults, but hadn't counted on Mark being away that night. Suddenly, the meticulous planning aspect goes out the door!! |
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27th February 2015, 05:39 PM | #244 |
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The lights, yes, the computer - not so sure. The killer(s) must have done a proper orderly shutdown to get a 10.52pm shutdown time recorded in the logs. It'd be simpler just turning the computer off at the wall, no light from the computer, and no chance of getting blood or DNA material on it in the process. In fact, if they'd just flicked it off at the wall, there would be no record of when it was turned off.
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27th February 2015, 05:52 PM | #245 |
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27th February 2015, 06:20 PM | #246 |
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If you're not a scientist but you think you've destroyed the foundation of a vast scientific edifice with 10 minutes of Googling, you might want to consider the possibility that you're wrong. Its TRE45ON season... convict the F45CIST!! |
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27th February 2015, 07:29 PM | #247 |
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Yeah, it depends how regularly events were being logged (if any were logged) between 3:39pm, when there was evidence of Outlook being used, and the shutdown time.
Assuming there is no clock trickery involved, I can't see why the killer would bother shutting down the machine if they wanted to kill the light from the screen. I'd just flick it off at the wall. It couldn't be Lundy doing the shutdown at 10.52pm anyway, because he's in Petone at 11.45pm. |
27th February 2015, 10:31 PM | #248 |
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Think it is pretty obvious, like Bain he did it, but if they can prove otherwise good on them
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27th February 2015, 10:52 PM | #249 |
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27th February 2015, 11:07 PM | #250 |
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27th February 2015, 11:11 PM | #251 |
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Fortunately, they don't have to prove otherwise; just cast doubt on the crown case, which doesn't look too hard.
Only if the timing is impossible for Lundy. Like I said, I haven't followed the evidence. So obvious it wasn't worth the time it took you to type it. Yes they would. there would have been a trail of blood all the way down the street. We're talking about a massive amount of blood & tissue and there was no sign of it outside. It is impossible that an assailant left the scene without cleaning up to a high degree first. Doesn't make any sense at all. No motive + if that much planning went on, they would have made quite sure he was there, because he would obviously have pointed in their direction. What's unsatisfactory about Lundy's motive? He was financially dead and probably counted on an enormous amount of sympathy instead of murder charges. He sure as hell played for it. His alibi interests me - I wasn't aware of the alleged - and fairly reliable-sounding sighting of Lundy on the Petone foreshore. With that and the phone calls and the hooker it's almost like he planned an alibi. On that basis, I'm going to say it was a paid accomplice, but as I keep saying, the cops were so in love with him as a suspect they didn't dig deeply enough at the time and it's far too late now. They thought he'd crack in custody and never looked likely. Underestimated the fat man. They knew he'd done it, but they thought they had him pegged psychologically. Fail. More power to him for getting away with it. He's also neatly recreated himself in jail. Quite a trimmed-down, normal-looking bloke now. Between him, Baino and whichever of the Kahuis killed the twins, the cops might need to look at their procedures. I hope he has a happy life - he's certainly going to be able to afford enough hookers. Poor man; wife & child murdered most foul, then banged up for it... Must deserve millions in compo. |
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27th February 2015, 11:18 PM | #252 |
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This bears out my suspicion. The cops were working on the assumption of a 7 pm TOD, because Lundy was the suspect they cared about. They probably went through the motions of clearing these other people without seriously considering whether one of them might have done it.
Here is what I consider a good reference case, to illustrate how this happens: http://www.nbcnews.com/id/38158659/n...eminisce-road/ The evidence against Delgado is a little thin, but I think he probably did it. But really my point is that he should have popped out from the git-go as a prime suspect, but he didn't, because cops were focused on the victim's husband as their favorite suspect. The pesky pedants on this board would have been less congenial. So we should have the police files. We could make good use of them. What happened to the neighbor pictured in North-South, whose ping pong table is overrun with files pertaining to Lundy's case? Maybe he could provide information to us. |
27th February 2015, 11:49 PM | #253 |
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You sound like I did back in 1989, when I was living in NYC and the Central Park Jogger was front-page news. She was raped, left for dead, and in a few days, the police arrested five suspects. Of course they were guilty, I thought. They were committing other crimes and raising hell in the park, on that very night, weren't they? They confessed, did they not?
As far as I was concerned, they did it, end of story. It hurt to be proved dead wrong when I was sure I was right. But it was not without benefits. It raised my level of skepticism and my standards for accepting a claim. Sometimes what seems obvious is not true. Back in 1989, the Central Park Five were on trial. Everyone was paying attention to them, remarking on their suspicious and thuggish demeanor. Matias Reyes was not in the news, except briefly and obscurely. He certainly was not associated with the Central Park Jogger. Nobody knew about Matias Reyes. Who and what do we not know about now, in connection with the murder of Lundy's wife and daughter? |
28th February 2015, 01:48 AM | #254 |
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Amazing how tunnel vision works. You'd have thought the footprint on the door would have been the first thing checked against Mooney, and the possible transference of his DNA - on their old bed and via Sammy - is remarkably obvious. It occurred to me straight away that his DNA would be all over the possessions she had moved into the house.Yet it took them two years to even consider someone else.
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28th February 2015, 02:25 AM | #255 |
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A lot of interesting patterns in that story.
And finally the issue of motive. Investigators eventually concluded that Roger mooney had every reason “not” to kill his ex-wife. Why? Because he was a dad. If Melissa were dead, his career in the marines would crash and burn. As you noted early in the thread Christine Lundy was an asset to Lundy, she did work that was anathema to Mark, and without it what connected the threads of fiscal survival would quickly lead to business failure. I am interested in "assisting the police with their enquiries". Amanda Knox did it, Arthur Thomas did it. Delgado did not. Do we have any strong evidence about Lundy proactively helping? ETA I read that story through, and the evidence looks anything but thin to me |
28th February 2015, 02:58 AM | #256 |
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I think any one wondering around talking about doubling life insurane before she die is slightly dodge. Especially when they are in debt.
And forgive me but the over acting was pretty obvious |
28th February 2015, 03:06 AM | #257 |
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28th February 2015, 04:14 AM | #258 |
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He had a mate maybe.
There are certain times when we as kiwis know some one is talking pants. French player Bastaraud sprung to mind. I know it sounds unfounded but the dude was play acting. |
28th February 2015, 05:06 AM | #259 |
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28th February 2015, 08:06 AM | #260 |
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In vino veritas
So Murphy was a real estate agent. Did he have any connection to the vineyard deal? Of course, another explanation for his suicide would be that he was extremely saddened over Christine's death. There appears to be some discrepancy in this article about whether or not the two knew each other. One source said that Murphy was "was close to Christine." However, later in the same article: "The LundyTruth website has also raised the possibility that it was committed by a person high on methamphetamine as a "hit", and said it bore similarities to violent home invasion murders in nearby Marton and Feilding. But a close friend of Christine Lundy, Christine Lockett, said there was no need for the police to widen their investigation.
She said Sheridan Murphy's suicide was 'bizarre timing' but he had not known Christine." |
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28th February 2015, 11:31 AM | #261 |
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Enough to kill yourself? Seems extreme, but perhaps if he was in a fragile mental state, it might have pushed him over the edge.
Surely they must have some connection, why else would Murphy be on the police suspect list? They key point is the police started off with a dodgy TOD and based their entire case around it. 55 suspects might have had an an alibi for 7pm but not one for later in the evening. |
28th February 2015, 11:54 AM | #262 |
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When Christine usually retired, according to Mark
Here is a link which discusses Christine's nighttime habits from Mark's recollection. I think that Murphy's connection is deserving of more investigation.
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28th February 2015, 01:26 PM | #263 |
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It all fits perfectly - he was making sure he was the picture of distress.
It certainly stopped the police investigating other options - like an accomplice - and only a jury that was swayed by the defendant being particularly repulsive stopped him getting away with it from Day 1 after the murder. The prefect crime was only fooled by prejudice. Quite funny when you think about; apart from the hacked-up bodies of Christine & Amber. Did you see the part about the blood being splattered on the walls so badly that there was a silhouette of the perpetrator? There is no doubt he was absolutely covered in blood - and tissue - from head to toe. I'm not saying there was definitely a body-suit involved, but given the planning involved, it's pretty likely. Might have been a raincoat. It is, however, utterly certain a huge clean-up was needed, including a complete change of clothing. Have I seen the crime scene photos? Yes. (post body removal) Can you see them? Not unless they're broadcast, which I would think is highly unlikely. |
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28th February 2015, 02:56 PM | #264 |
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28th February 2015, 03:49 PM | #265 |
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Yes, crime scene photos would be huge. A dossier on Christine Lundy might be of even greater value.
I have a feeling the suicide case is a red herring. I think there must be something else. I would like to know about business as well as personal contacts. |
28th February 2015, 03:51 PM | #266 |
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can't find anything online. Atheist - how did you come to see them?
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28th February 2015, 03:55 PM | #267 |
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28th February 2015, 04:03 PM | #268 |
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What happened to the jewelry box?
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It is possible both to be right about an issue and to take oneself a little too seriously, but I would rather be reminded of that by a friend than a foe. (a tip of the hat to Foolmewunz) |
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28th February 2015, 04:09 PM | #269 |
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Interesting how some people are assumed to be guilty because they're physically unattractive. And yet in other cases, those pointing out the flaws in the evidence are dismissed as "groupies" because the accused is not physically repulsive.
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28th February 2015, 04:39 PM | #270 |
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28th February 2015, 04:58 PM | #271 |
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Personally don't care what happens to the dude as long as we don't pay him anything.
Would be more impressed if the police tried to find out what happened to the Kahui twins rather than writing it off. |
28th February 2015, 05:14 PM | #272 |
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I expect he will be compensated. The prosecution is bringing a case with impossible specifics, a TOD 8.5 hours after the most likely time of meal commencement, and 6.5 hours after Amber's regular bedtime. Both victims had recognizable meal contents in their stomachs, and are stated to have had empty duodenums. The case will go to an international jurist, who will declare Lundy could not have done what the crown alleges, therefore a prima facie case for compensation is proved.
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28th February 2015, 05:23 PM | #273 |
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Where is Collins when you need her?
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28th February 2015, 07:06 PM | #274 |
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28th February 2015, 07:55 PM | #275 |
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28th February 2015, 08:07 PM | #276 |
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This case looks different though. The man has been in jail for many years on a totally different crown theory, and their TOD was pathologically plausible first time round.
The crown never changed their theory in the Bain case, and there is no smoking gun for the defence to prove father did it. If anything, David Bain has difficulty with the return home and the computer. Lundy appears to have consecutive events that preclude his direct involvement, and the crown have pretty much conceded. It might be worth remembering later that no one on this thread is supporting the new crown theory (yet) |
28th February 2015, 08:21 PM | #277 |
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The evidence presented in court was tame? Wow, you must read some hoopy crime stories.
Repeat: the perp was covered in blood from head to toe. Me too, really. He served over half his non-parole period and plenty of murderers have served far less, including the child-murderer Soulan Pownceby (né Rikihana) who bashed his five month old baby to death over a period of 4-5 weeks. That one you can't hang on the pigs - they really did try to solve it, but when you have 12 people, all of whom know who did it but refuse to say one word about it, they were never going to find out. A law change to lock them all up would do it for me. |
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28th February 2015, 09:40 PM | #278 |
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Totally agree with your last point Atheist
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28th February 2015, 11:35 PM | #279 |
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The original TOD was 7pm, and the reports from the first days of the trial were:
Quote:
I have no idea what the Crown's case is any more, I'm not sure they do either. It's a dog's breakfast. |
1st March 2015, 12:02 AM | #280 |
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It may be time to consult a psychic. I wonder if Noreen Renier is available?
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