|
Welcome to the International Skeptics Forum, where we discuss skepticism, critical thinking, the paranormal and science in a friendly but lively way. You are currently viewing the forum as a guest, which means you are missing out on discussing matters that are of interest to you. Please consider registering so you can gain full use of the forum features and interact with other Members. Registration is simple, fast and free! Click here to register today. |
21st May 2016, 08:05 PM | #41 |
Banned
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: NZ
Posts: 21,318
|
|
21st May 2016, 08:07 PM | #42 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Oct 2013
Posts: 11,941
|
|
21st May 2016, 08:46 PM | #43 |
The Grammar Tyrant
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 34,996
|
Good luck with that - I can't see it being a big seller.
You mean the Alex Dempster who said that suicide was unlikely, verging on the impossible, given the circumstances of the evidence? http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/crim...-wound-unusual |
__________________
The point of equilibrium has passed; satire and current events are now indistinguishable. |
|
21st May 2016, 09:04 PM | #44 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Oct 2013
Posts: 11,941
|
|
24th May 2016, 05:12 PM | #45 |
Philosopher
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: UK
Posts: 6,140
|
Which rather misses two important points, this is the beginning of the slippery slope of police misconduct. It starts with 'well if they didn't commit this crime they probably deserve it for something else they did' and ends at 'well they looked guilty to me'.
Secondly if Tamihere didn't commit the crime you have an actual murderer wandering around with the knowledge that they got away with it. |
__________________
So I've started a blog about my writing. Check it out at: http://fourth-planet-problem.blogspot.com/ And my first book is on Amazon: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B077W322FX |
|
24th May 2016, 07:42 PM | #46 |
The Grammar Tyrant
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 34,996
|
Oh, I'm not suggesting they be forgiven or anything.
It's just that when faced with appalling miscarriages like Lundy, it almost sullies his case to be seen to be backing Tamihere, because he is a scumbag and has always been a scumbag and could never have any public sympathy. Along with the murderers of Mona Blades, Tracey Patient, Olive Walker, Jayne Furlong, Chris & Cru Kahui, Amber & Christine Lundy, Scott Guy and lots of others. I'm past caring about that side of it. |
__________________
The point of equilibrium has passed; satire and current events are now indistinguishable. |
|
24th May 2016, 09:20 PM | #47 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Oct 2013
Posts: 11,941
|
|
24th May 2016, 09:48 PM | #48 |
The Grammar Tyrant
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 34,996
|
|
__________________
The point of equilibrium has passed; satire and current events are now indistinguishable. |
|
25th May 2016, 03:26 AM | #49 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Oct 2013
Posts: 11,941
|
It turns out that Phil Taylor wrote this headline
Witness C must be the type that people can't help but bare their soul to. He has claimed that two men convicted in separate infamous murder cases confessed to him. The jailhouse informant faces a private perjury prosecution filed this month that accuses him of giving false testimony at David Tamihere's trial for the murders of Swedish backpacker Heidi Paakkonen and her fiance Sven Urban Hoglin. The Herald can now reveal the same prisoner claimed Mark Lundy confessed to him too. However this shows not that witness C and witness X from 2015 are the same person, but that witness C was the first snitch Palmerston North constabulary tried to employ to lock up Lundy. What we learn is they found a new and different man for the 2015 trial. Here is the link and it must be read with care to understand what the hell is going on. http://m.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/arti...ectid=11639110 I believe Arthur Taylor is well known to Fixit who has just joined the forum. |
25th May 2016, 11:14 AM | #50 |
The Grammar Tyrant
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 34,996
|
Ok, gotcha - I read your post that his evidence had been used, but it wasn't.
Fixit a friend of Arthur Taylor - that is interesting. Resourceful bloke, Taylor. |
__________________
The point of equilibrium has passed; satire and current events are now indistinguishable. |
|
25th May 2016, 02:00 PM | #51 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Oct 2013
Posts: 11,941
|
|
26th May 2016, 03:28 AM | #52 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Oct 2013
Posts: 11,941
|
It may or may not surprise that David Tamihere slots neatly into the series of difficult cases that fail the logic test.
1. A far better candidate, Huia George Foley, who had no alibi, and who confessed independently to at least two people, one on his (proverbial) death bed he did it, and to another accuser he failed to deny it, by saying they will never find her body. 2. An attempt to saw off the dead man's head was pointless. Pathologists could show he was stabbed to death. On the other hand Tamihere operated with logic and good intelligence. He comes from a well performing family. Foley, after the event, drove close to a truck, stuck his arm out and it was ripped off. Unhinged. He had anxious demeanour after the homicides, Tamihere cool as, driving tourists around Coromandel delivering a sane and educated geographical narrative while driving the Swedes' car. 3. Tamihere clearly broke into the car, as shown by the fact he could replicate the difficult maneouver with no 8 wire after being arrested. Any theory suggesting he killed them precluded the need for him to break in. Car conversions were his "stock in trade". He found keys in the glove box by his testimony. 4. Their belongings were found in a place that implicated him if the people were found to be victims of foul play. Does not sound like our David. 5. Everything he did with the car and belongings was traceable back to him. If they were still alive, the car theft would never have been investigated by police, so he pawning their goods at harmony house in K road made sense only for a petty thief, never a double killer. 6. The sighting in Crosby's clearing the prosecution relied on was impossible for the reasonable man. Two trampers alleged to have spoken for 11 full minutes to a man, and a woman remaining silent, after the man had raped and murdered her boyfriend, and raped her. Ridiculous even to a Stockholm syndrome student. Yes the COA used this last point 6 and thus witness C to deny his appeal. This is okay though, because that is COA's job, to patch together the best of trial into an ungainly essay in fantasy. The above is to give context to this secret witness business. Frame, frame, and frame again. Oh will the state's hands ne'er be clean? |
26th May 2016, 11:19 AM | #53 |
The Grammar Tyrant
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 34,996
|
|
__________________
The point of equilibrium has passed; satire and current events are now indistinguishable. |
|
26th May 2016, 05:11 PM | #54 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Oct 2013
Posts: 11,941
|
Why thank you. MacBeth 5th form. I'm sure you remember.
I think it is useful to go case by case, and frankly, Wishart's book on this one is outstanding. The last letter home brought real tears. (almost) A couple of songs have been...... Chris de Burgh - Missing You, Eric Carmen - Make Me Lose Control, Moody Blues - I Know You're Out There Somewhere.... "Until we meet again...Urban & Heidi" |
26th May 2016, 05:37 PM | #55 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Oct 2013
Posts: 11,941
|
And here is how the crooked police are laying waste to community
https://www.nzonscreen.com/title/relative-guilt-1999 |
26th May 2016, 06:54 PM | #56 |
The Grammar Tyrant
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 34,996
|
Cor, do I ever. Made a profound impression on me, that play did.
We went to see the Roman Polanski version when I was 15 and the naked Lady MacBeth scene is still burned into my memory banks. Stopped clocks are right twice a day - he gets no points from being able to be smarter than cops. I wonder if his brother being such a huge, whining tosser has anything to do with public opinion on Tamihere. There were rape allegations against John that turned out to be fabricated. Someone must've broken a couple of mirrors. |
__________________
The point of equilibrium has passed; satire and current events are now indistinguishable. |
|
26th May 2016, 07:10 PM | #57 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Oct 2013
Posts: 11,941
|
|
1st June 2016, 07:38 PM | #58 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Oct 2013
Posts: 11,941
|
I have a strange compulsion to trawl the media for more on these cases. For example
One of the last people to see Ms Paakkonen alive, Mel Knauf, last night said he was still haunted by the killings, and still wondered what might have happened if he had been more observant. He and another tramper saw Ms Paakkonen and a man identified as Tamihere in a bush clearing. "I've tortured myself for a long time about this. But it's a dead end." The 64-year-old said he wished Tamihere would say where Ms Paakkonen's body was hidden. "If there was one justice that should have been done it was saying that we'll let you go, but only if you will tell us where Heidi is. Her family are still grieving. They've got no closure." http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/ar...ectid=10685217 The odd thing is this man never saw Heidi Paakkonen. Detective John Hughes manufactured the sighting by a 7 step process. I will log it when Wishart finally gets my ebook to me. The Tamihere case is at the hub of a wheel, looking backwards forwards and sideways to our police force's least glorious moments. |
1st June 2016, 08:10 PM | #59 |
Non credunt, semper verificare
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Sigil, the city of doors
Posts: 14,571
|
|
2nd June 2016, 02:02 AM | #60 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Oct 2013
Posts: 11,941
|
The killer's family tried to interest the police but they wanted Tamihere. They knew they could get the case over the line with his form for manslaughter and rape.
But he did not do that crime and Huia George Foley remained at large. He deliberately drove by a truck, stuck his arm out, and it detached, soon after he killed the Swedes. He tried to saw Hoglin's head from his dead body at the scene, he was an unbalanced player in this grisly crime. |
5th June 2016, 08:43 PM | #61 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Oct 2013
Posts: 11,941
|
This is worth a read. See how legal counsel behave badly.
https://www1.umn.edu/humanrts/undocs...68/view891.htm |
29th September 2016, 12:54 AM | #62 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Oct 2013
Posts: 11,941
|
A high court hearing today presages witness C crashing and burning. For Atheist, this is an historic day for New Zealand justice. No hyperbole
|
25th October 2017, 04:02 AM | #63 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Oct 2013
Posts: 11,941
|
Witness C was sentenced to 8 years and 7 months for perjury.
Everyone knows John Hughes effectively wrote his testimony, and that witness C was paroled after 9 years for killing in a family feud, but more particularly, executing the girlfriend who came to see what was happening. He would describe it to his girl friend, pleasure like eating ice cream. I contend the state has failed to educate C, and the state has failed to call to account Hughes, prosecutor David Moriss, and 5 appeal court judges who made false statements when denying Tamiher's appeal. Tamihere did not do the crime. |
27th April 2018, 02:39 AM | #64 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Nelson, New Zealand
Posts: 25,300
|
Witness C has now been named... he is Roberto Conchie Harris; himself a double murderer who tried to escape from prison.
This must further bring into serious doubt the idea of using "jailhouse snitches" as witnesses in high profile trials. In too many cases they have been shown to have given false testimony. |
__________________
If you're not a scientist but you think you've destroyed the foundation of a vast scientific edifice with 10 minutes of Googling, you might want to consider the possibility that you're wrong. Its TRE45ON season... convict the F45CIST!! |
|
27th April 2018, 04:41 PM | #65 |
Banned
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: NZ
Posts: 21,318
|
This case is looking dodgier and dodgier the more I read about.
Unless I'm reading it wrong the only substantial evidence looks like it was from 3 crims and A) they all clash B) have all proved to be wrong. Dumped body in water (nup). Cut body up (nup) If Tamihere wasn't such a scumbag I could actually feel sorry for him, rather than just thinking it's police corruption and they need to clear his name. |
27th April 2018, 06:35 PM | #66 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Nelson, New Zealand
Posts: 25,300
|
Not to mention Stefan's stolen watch (nup, it was found still on his body)
He might be a scumbag, but he doesn't deserve to be tagged as a murderer or to have been put away for it. Everyone is entitled to justice regardless of who they are. All he was really guilty of was stealing their (apparently) abandoned Subaru Wagon. |
__________________
If you're not a scientist but you think you've destroyed the foundation of a vast scientific edifice with 10 minutes of Googling, you might want to consider the possibility that you're wrong. Its TRE45ON season... convict the F45CIST!! |
|
27th April 2018, 07:40 PM | #67 |
Banned
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: NZ
Posts: 21,318
|
|
28th April 2018, 03:49 AM | #68 |
Critical Thinker
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: Auckland, NZ
Posts: 466
|
Tamihere was locked in their sights for some reason and there was no way they were going to let him have any natural justice. If the Court of Appeal says that actually finding one of the bodies doesn't constitute fresh evidence, then you know your plight is hopeless.
Part of it is keeping up the facade that NZ is a completely benign place for visitors; having the unsolved murders of two backpackers in the foreign press is not a great look for the tourist industry. I'm sure there is all sorts of pressure to clean up these types of cases quickly. |
28th April 2018, 04:13 AM | #69 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Oct 2013
Posts: 11,941
|
It is a remarkable coincidence that psychopath Huia George Foley killed the couple, and that a man on the run from a rape and kidnapping rap stole their car. However there is little doubt this happened, I am unclear on the Avondale crime that Tamihere ran from and how egregious it was.
Ultimately this will probably impact badly on a compensation claim, though I consider he has proved his innocence by now. I am pleased for brother John, the parents, and David's sons that few New Zealanders still think he did the crime. |
28th April 2018, 04:35 AM | #70 |
Banned
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: NZ
Posts: 21,318
|
I might be wrong but I think all his chips have been cashed in 're appeals.
Would take a govt inquiry Interesting to see if they do given their rather blatant one finger salute to his brother John trying to rejoin Labour a few years ago. Would have to be through gritted teeth |
28th April 2018, 05:51 AM | #71 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Apr 2015
Posts: 34,989
|
The brother of Urban Hoglin, 23, murder victim has no doubts about Tamihere's guilt:
Quote:
So, it wasn't just a Shawshank Redemption-style prison snitch who fingered Tamihere, there was an independent neutral eye witness as to having seen the car belonging to the murder victims, and being given a lift in it by an man giving a false name. That man was Tamihere. |
__________________
who claims the soulless Who speaks for the forgotten dead ~ Danzig |
|
28th April 2018, 05:59 AM | #72 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Oct 2013
Posts: 11,941
|
|
28th April 2018, 10:22 AM | #73 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Apr 2015
Posts: 34,989
|
|
__________________
who claims the soulless Who speaks for the forgotten dead ~ Danzig |
|
29th April 2018, 04:58 AM | #74 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Oct 2013
Posts: 11,941
|
|
21st April 2020, 12:44 AM | #75 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Oct 2013
Posts: 11,941
|
And after 31 years he gets another appeal.
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/a...ectid=12326394 The killer was the now deceased Huia George Foley. |
Thread Tools | |
|
|