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Tags "Serial" podcast , "Undisclosed" podcast , adnan syed , Maryland cases , murder cases

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Old 26th August 2015, 01:13 AM   #121
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Originally Posted by Ampulla of Vater View Post
It was used to corroborate Jay's evidence plus that of the other witnesses and evidence.
You mean the testimony that changed half a dozen time to fit the prosecution's narrative?

Anyway, it's all moot, the court now gets to decide whether the evidence was admissible as a motion has been filed to reopen proceedings on the basis that incoming calls cannot be used to determine location.

http://cjbrownlawcom.c.presscdn.com/...open-FINAL.pdf
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Old 26th August 2015, 04:22 AM   #122
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Let us say for the sake of argument that Adnan Syed is guilty. I am not very positive about his innocence.

The problem is that the case is, at best, extremely ambiguous. A jury is not suppose to convict if there is reasonable doubt. I see doubt everywhere on this case.
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Old 26th August 2015, 04:25 AM   #123
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Originally Posted by Desert Fox View Post
Let us say for the sake of argument that Adnan Syed is guilty. I am not very positive about his innocence.

The problem is that the case is, at best, extremely ambiguous. A jury is not suppose to convict if there is reasonable doubt. I see doubt everywhere on this case.
The first jury were going to acquit before Gutierrez turned it into a mistrial. No one could understand why Adnan, and not Jay, were in the dock.
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Old 26th August 2015, 05:32 AM   #124
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Originally Posted by bit_pattern View Post
The first jury were going to acquit before Gutierrez turned it into a mistrial. No one could understand why Adnan, and not Jay, were in the dock.
The trouble is that I see her as the poster child for ineffective assistance at trial. She did not hire experts she promised. Unless the experts which Undisclosed brought forward lied (ignoring the hosts here), a second opinion on the forensics side and a cell phone expert would have shattered the case.
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Old 26th August 2015, 03:35 PM   #125
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Originally Posted by kwill View Post
that had a cover sheet stating explicitly that incoming calls were NOT reliable for location of the phone that was receiving them.

The state relied on them anyway. The defense was asleep at the switch.

The calls that supposedly place the phone in Leakin Park were both incoming, which means there is no reliable cell phone evidence to be corroborated by Jay Wilds or any other person.
Here is the post about why you can rely on the incoming calls I was trying to find. I did not write this, but it lays it all out perfectly.


Quote:
I'm just going to list out the incoming calls from the logs and show why the question of "reliability" is moot.

January 12th
•
Call #10, outgoing to Jay, 9:18pm, L651C

•
Call #9, incoming, 9:21pm, L651C

•
Call #8, incoming, 9:24pm, L651C

•
Call #7, outgoing to Yaser Home, 9:26pm, L651C


This is an 8 minute period with two outgoing calls bookending to incoming calls. They all hit the same antenna, L651C. I think it's safe to say the incoming antenna is correct.

January 13th
•
Call #30, outgoing to Jenn home, 12:41pm, L652A

•
Call #29, incoming, 12:43pm, L652A


Again, we have an outgoing call within 2 minutes of an incoming call, both using the same antenna. I think it's safe to say the incoming antenna is correct.
•Call #28, incoming, 2:36pm, L651B

Jenn and Jay (and likely Mark) all testify to Jay having the phone at Jenn's House during this time. L651B is the antenna for Jenn's House. This data matches testimony and is very likely correct.
•
Call #27, incoming, 3:15pm, L651C

•
Call #26, outgoing to Jenn home, 3:21pm, L651C


Again, we have an incoming and outgoing call in close proximity. The phone was previously at Jenn's home for Call #28. It is likely not there for Call #26 to Jenn's home. This data matches the testimony from Trial #1 of Jay heading out to the direction of the Best Buy 45 minutes after receiving the 2:36pm call. This data matches testimony and is very likely correct.
•
Call #21, incoming, 4:27pm, L654C

•
Call #20, incoming, 4:58pm, L654C


Indeterminate, I don't remember anything off hand to use to independently corroborate or refute these calls.
•
Call #16, incoming, 6:07pm, L655A

•
Call #15, incoming, 6:09pm, L608C

•
Call #14, incoming, 6:24pm, L608C


L608C is the antenna facing Cathy's House. Calls 14 and 15 are the calls we know Adnan received while at the house. Call 16 is interesting. L655A is along the driving path to Cathy's House from the North. Either this call was made in route to the house or it could be a case where the logs recording last known good instead of the antenna that actually handled the call. Call 16 is indeterminate to corroborate or refute. Calls 14 and 15 match the testimony and are very likely correct.
•
Call #13, outgoing to Yaser Cell, 6:59pm, L651A

•
Call #12, outgoing to Jenn Pager, 7:00pm, L651A

•
Call #11, incoming, 7:09pm, L689B

•
Call #10, incoming, 7:16pm, L689B


The "Leakin Park" calls. Calls 12 and 13 are outgoing calls through L651A which covers Security Blvd, Woodlawn HS, etc. So at 7pm the phone is near the park. Sometime after 7pm the phone has to register with L689B for that antenna to appear in the logs. AND it could not register with any other antenna until after the second call at 7:16pm. This is beyond unlikely. If the 33 second call didn't actually go through L689B, I cannot come up with a scenario where the 7:16pm call would also log L689B. And in any scenario, the phone needs to register with L689B at least once after 7pm for it to appear in the logs.

Moreover, the Leakin Park calls are followed up with two outgoing calls 45 minutes later.
•
Call #9, outgoing to Jenn pager, 8:04pm, L653A

•
Call #10, outgoing to Jenn pager, 8:05pm, L653C


L653A covers to the southeast of Leakin Park. L653C covers along highway 40 on the way back to Woodlawn. This very much matches up with the testimony of ditching the car on Edmondson Ave. and then driving back to drop Jay off at the mall. So very likely, the phone went through the park between 7pm-8pm traveling from West to East, emerged on the East side of the park some time around 8pm and was heading West back to Woodlawn at 8:05pm.

Conclusion

I don't see any errant data for the incoming calls. I see many that are independently supported with outgoing calls and testimony. There's simply no "reliability" issues with the data.
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Old 26th August 2015, 09:15 PM   #126
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Originally Posted by Ampulla of Vater View Post
Here is the post about why you can rely on the incoming calls I was trying to find. I did not write this, but it lays it all out perfectly.
When the piece you've quoted from was written, the information from the AT&T cover sheet stating specifically, emphatically, and clearly that incoming calls were not reliable for locating the phone had not been widely publicized.

In particular, this:

Quote:
Sometime after 7pm the phone has to register with L689B for that antenna to appear in the logs. AND it could not register with any other antenna until after the second call at 7:16pm. This is beyond unlikely. If the 33 second call didn't actually go through L689B, I cannot come up with a scenario where the 7:16pm call would also log L689B. And in any scenario, the phone needs to register with L689B at least once after 7pm for it to appear in the logs.
makes no sense. The incoming calls are the ones your source is referring to. Both of the calls that ping that tower are incoming. One is at 7:09 and the other at 7:16. According to AT&T -- the people who owned and operated the towers that serviced the phone -- there is nothing to be learned from the data.

The reason is that an incoming call can be routed through the tower that's in range of the sending phone, and it could be a tower that's completely out of range of the receiving phone. You can't tell from this data where Syed's phone was at 7:09 or at 7:16. Period, full stop.

Last edited by kwill; 26th August 2015 at 09:16 PM.
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Old 22nd September 2015, 06:40 PM   #127
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Originally Posted by Desert Fox View Post
It appears as if independent medical examiners were willing to state for the record that they though it was definitive enough that Hae was not buried at around 7 pm based on the lividity. Reading the actual autopsy report, it uses the term "prominent lividity."

...
Lividity evidence is debunked thoroughly. Hae was buried with her face and chest flat downward. Hips and knees twisted to her right side. The frontal lividity the Undisclosed crew has been harping on only proves she was buried exactly as she was found, face down.

Additionally, the independent medical examiners you reference didn't even have all the photos of the burial site or the autopsy. It is a catastrophe for the cheerleading team.
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Old 22nd September 2015, 07:07 PM   #128
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Originally Posted by Ampulla of Vater View Post
Lividity evidence is debunked thoroughly. Hae was buried with her face and chest flat downward. Hips and knees twisted to her right side. The frontal lividity the Undisclosed crew has been harping on only proves she was buried exactly as she was found, face down.

Additionally, the independent medical examiners you reference didn't even have all the photos of the burial site or the autopsy. It is a catastrophe for the cheerleading team.
You need to watch "The Docket" where they talk about the crime scene and the condition of the body. I believe it was the latest one.

Through the assistance of MSNBC, the people at Undisclosed were able to get high resolution pictures were the condition of the body and the burial is not consistent with either being in the trunk of Hae's car or being buried as you describe.
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Old 27th September 2015, 02:50 PM   #129
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I suspect that Ampulla of Vater got what he posted previously from Reddit.

The poster claims to be an ex trial attorney have a secret source where he/she optioned pictures of the body.

The newest Serial Dynasty addresses this remark. Bob has pictures of the body, mainly so that he could pass them to Jim Clemente (surprise, surprise, he was also involved in the Amanda Knox case) so that Jim could do a profile of the perpetrator. Bob is also going to ask Jim Clemente to back him on on the description so I don't think he is lying.

According to Bob, the poster on Reddit appears to have been completely dishonest about the position of the body and the body was not in a position where the chest was downwards. I laid on the ground as he described the body and there is no way to twist my body towards the ground.

If this person is an ex trial attorney though, I think I can give a name to him. . . . Kevin Urick.

Ann B also claims to have looked at the pictures and is either being dishonest about seeing them or is lying about what the pictures showed.

Edit: Should add that while Bob now things that Adnan is innocent, he was not always of that position.
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Old 28th September 2015, 01:20 PM   #130
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Originally Posted by Ampulla of Vater View Post
Lividity evidence is debunked thoroughly.
Sorry, but no. A qualified medical examiner looked at the authenticated crime scene photos in high-resolution color, along with the testimony at trial from the ME and the autopsy report. She has said without equivocation that the body was kept face down for 8-12 hours at least before it was placed in the position in which it was found. When I hear that any medical expert who has similarly examined the available authenticated evidence has a different conclusion, I'll entertain doubt.


Quote:
Additionally, the independent medical examiners you reference didn't even have all the photos of the burial site or the autopsy.
They had all the authenticated photos -- meaning, all the photos that were introduced at trial and verified by a witness as being an accurate representation of what was visible at the burial site. If there were other photos, isn't it logical that they must show the same scene? If there were other photos, isn't it also logical that they weren't as clear as the ones introduced at trial?

Why do you take the word of an anonymous internet dude over that of the State's witness, the State's ME, the State's autopsy report, and a qualified independent ME who has gone on the record about what the photos show? This is a serious question . . . I really want to know why you trust that reddit guy so much.

Quote:
It is a catastrophe for the cheerleading team.
Well, no. It's really not anything of the kind. It's more a demonstration that for some reason I don't pretend to understand, there's an unreasonable investment on the part of a few people who choose to remain anonymous that Syed stay in prison. The "cheerleading team" is bemused by this behavior, I'd guess.

I myself can't help comparing it to the Amanda Knox guilter stuff . . . there was a similar level of venom and rejoicing there over what turned out every single time to be ridiculous overstatement and unwarranted conclusions. It was a catastrophe for her cheerleaders, remember, when Raffaele's attorney suggested that there was no evidence against him last summer. It was the beginning of the end! He was going to turn on her at last!

All nonsense.
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Old 1st October 2015, 01:49 PM   #131
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SS did a great model (in clay) of how the body was positions
http://viewfromll2.com/2015/09/30/wh...tographs-show/
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Old 4th October 2015, 02:55 PM   #132
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Rabia has something extremely interesting to suggest
NOTE: I spoke at a law school a few weeks ago and one of the faculty members, who has run the school’s criminal law clinic for 40 years, was adamant with me about his theory that her body could not have been in the woods for that many weeks without animal activity. He insisted that a place like Leakin Park, which has its own wildlife like foxes, but also urban pests like rats and mice, will immediately begin to gnaw at certain parts of a body. Eyes, nose, ears, digits to begin with, they go within days in the outdoors. He said insects growth is unavoidable in that many weeks, and he refused to believe she had been there that long. According to him, because her body showed absolutely no signs of animal activity, she could not have been there more than a couple of days.
http://www.splitthemoon.com/hae-and-k-speak/#more-923
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Old 10th October 2015, 03:16 AM   #133
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This was a little off, based on the real photos. Do you see how she is now starting to incorporate the notion that Hae was partially face-down, when before she stuck to the theory Hae was placed on her right side? Slowly she is changing her story. I wonder why that is?
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Old 10th October 2015, 03:31 AM   #134
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Originally Posted by kwill View Post

Why do you take the word of an anonymous internet dude over that of the State's witness, the State's ME, the State's autopsy report, and a qualified independent ME who has gone on the record about what the photos show? This is a serious question . . . I really want to know why you trust that reddit guy so much.

Because I have the photos. I was part of the 3 people who obtained the police file. Of course now it has been spread all over reddit (not my doing) but we had the file which shows her upper torso buried face down.

Last edited by Ampulla of Vater; 10th October 2015 at 03:37 AM. Reason: hit enter accidentally and was not finished
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Old 10th October 2015, 04:35 AM   #135
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Being that Bob Ruff describes the body almost exactly the same way with regards to position as Susan Simpson, why is he willing to lie about the position of the body?
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Old 10th October 2015, 02:22 PM   #136
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Originally Posted by Desert Fox View Post
Being that Bob Ruff describes the body almost exactly the same way with regards to position as Susan Simpson, why is he willing to lie about the position of the body?
Because he, like Dr. Hlavity have only 8 of the photos. They admitted that. There were determined to be a total of 22.
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Old 10th October 2015, 04:39 PM   #137
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So we are talking about pictures that were never presented at trial. . . .You have no idea where they came from or their provision?
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Old 10th October 2015, 08:08 PM   #138
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They are in the police file. The police photographer took them the day they exhumed the body. They are official police photos. No, they were not used at trial, but then again, livor was not an issue at trial. Dr. Korrell testified there was frontal lividity, which would be consistent with the way she was found buried. Subsequently, 15 years later, lividity inconsistency was manufactured as an argument for Syed's innocence, stating the body was found on its right side so it should not have had frontal livor.
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Old 11th October 2015, 11:31 PM   #139
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Might I ask what experts have looked at these pictures and can you get one on the record to state that Dr. Hlavity is incorrect?
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Old 13th October 2015, 07:46 PM   #140
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Looks like the Cell Phone data is pretty much deep sixed. . . .
http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/mar...013-story.html

Abraham Waranowitz, a former AT&T engineer, said in a sworn affidavit that he was handed only one page of cellphone information before taking the stand in 2000 to explain how Syed's cellphone was linked to where the victim's body was found. He said he did not know of a disclaimer on a different page that might have cast doubt on the reliability of the data.
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Old 6th November 2015, 08:34 PM   #141
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Order granting post conviction procedures
http://cjbrownlawcom.c.presscdn.com/...2015.11.06.pdf
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Old 6th November 2015, 09:23 PM   #142
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Originally Posted by Desert Fox View Post
Order granting post conviction procedures
http://cjbrownlawcom.c.presscdn.com/...2015.11.06.pdf
Thanks, but I'm having trouble understanding pages of legalese. Can you please summarise?
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Old 7th November 2015, 06:50 AM   #143
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Originally Posted by lionking View Post
Thanks, but I'm having trouble understanding pages of legalese. Can you please summarise?
http://time.com/4103619/serials-adna...edings-appeal/

On Friday, Judge Martin P. Welch granted Adnan Syed post-conviction proceedings on his case, according to court documents. The proceedings will add in the testimony of Asia McClain, a friend who could provide Syed’s alibi, and information about cell tower locations that could change the timeline presented at trial, according to the Chicago Sun Times. The high school student was convicted of murdering his classmate Hei Min Lee in 1999, but the podcast, which quickly gained a huge following, raised doubts about his guilt.
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Old 7th November 2015, 02:54 PM   #144
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Originally Posted by Desert Fox View Post
Looks like the Cell Phone data is pretty much deep sixed. . . .
http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/mar...013-story.html

Abraham Waranowitz, a former AT&T engineer, said in a sworn affidavit that he was handed only one page of cellphone information before taking the stand in 2000 to explain how Syed's cellphone was linked to where the victim's body was found. He said he did not know of a disclaimer on a different page that might have cast doubt on the reliability of the data.
Waranowitz himself made a public statement stating it may or may not have changed his testimony. Not quite the deep six you were counting on.
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Old 7th November 2015, 03:01 PM   #145
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Originally Posted by Ampulla of Vater View Post
Waranowitz himself made a public statement stating it may or may not have changed his testimony. Not quite the deep six you were counting on.
The cover sheet says the cell phone data is not reliable and that is not presented to the defense yet this is fully acceptable to you. I guess Brady means nothing to you. . . .
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Old 7th November 2015, 09:26 PM   #146
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In order to raise a claim of Brady or IAC, Syed's attorney needs to set forth a specific allegation as to exactly how the testimony would have changed- and more, how and why the changed testimony would have made a difference to overall outcome.

A lawyer can't litigate a Brady or IAC claim base on speculation ("what if?") --the lawyer needs to set out in their pleadings what they are prepared to prove in court. Justin Brown failed to do this because the cover sheet has no legal significance whatsoever. It is inadmissible hearsay. It might as well be a note scribbled on toilet paper. It wasn't part of the exhibit produced pursuant to the subpoena, and it wasn't authenticated.

Waranowitz edited his LinkedIn page to include the following statement:
"As an engineer with integrity, it would be irresponsible to not address the absence of the disclaimer on the documents I reviewed, which may (or may not have) affected my testimony. I have NOT abandoned my testimony, as some have claimed. The disclaimer should have been addressed in court. Period."
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Old 7th November 2015, 09:44 PM   #147
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Well I think the appeal will raise enough doubts to see the sentence overturned.
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Old 7th November 2015, 10:04 PM   #148
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Originally Posted by lionking View Post
Well I think the appeal will raise enough doubts to see the sentence overturned.
If you look at cases, the prosecution will almost never admit to making a mistake. . . .Look at the just concluded Russ Faria case.

In this case, being that Don seems to have a completely faked alibi, I am beginning to think that Don is likely who killed Hae.
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Old 8th November 2015, 03:44 AM   #149
Ampulla of Vater
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Originally Posted by Desert Fox View Post
I suspect that Ampulla of Vater got what he posted previously from Reddit.

The poster claims to be an ex trial attorney have a secret source where he/she optioned pictures of the body.

The newest Serial Dynasty addresses this remark. Bob has pictures of the body, mainly so that he could pass them to Jim Clemente (surprise, surprise, he was also involved in the Amanda Knox case) so that Jim could do a profile of the perpetrator. Bob is also going to ask Jim Clemente to back him on on the description so I don't think he is lying.

According to Bob, the poster on Reddit appears to have been completely dishonest about the position of the body and the body was not in a position where the chest was downwards. I laid on the ground as he described the body and there is no way to twist my body towards the ground.

If this person is an ex trial attorney though, I think I can give a name to him. . . . Kevin Urick.

Ann B also claims to have looked at the pictures and is either being dishonest about seeing them or is lying about what the pictures showed.

Edit: Should add that while Bob now things that Adnan is innocent, he was not always of that position.
I missed this post. I don't come over here as often as I used to. Jim Clemente was interviewed by Bob. It was one of the few times Bob was bordering on speechless. Clemente stated the following attributes were present in Hae's killer:
  • Not criminally sophisticated.
  • Young and impulsive.
  • Motive was NOT robbery and NOT rape. Motive was PERSONAL CAUSE, as in rage or revenge.
  • Less than 1% chance it was a serial killer.

First he profiled Hae and stated that since she was not into drugs or prostitution, she was a low-risk victim. This meant her killer was most likely someone from within a small circle of people close to her. It was probably someone who had a relationship with her and this relationship was known by other people to exist. This is why she was hidden away after she was murdered, to prevent her discovery. A stranger doesn't care if his victims are found.

Clemente described Syed right down to his socks.

ETA: I personally gave the photos to Ann Brocklehurst at the same time they were given to xtrialatty, so I can assure you she has them. Each of the 3 of us who obtained the MPIA chose one person to whom to give the file. The file included color photos Undisclosed admittedly did not have and therefore were not given to Hlavity for her analysis either.

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Old 8th November 2015, 04:51 AM   #150
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Originally Posted by Ampulla of Vater View Post
I missed this post. I don't come over here as often as I used to. Jim Clemente was interviewed by Bob. It was one of the few times Bob was bordering on speechless. Clemente stated the following attributes were present in Hae's killer:
  • Not criminally sophisticated.
  • Young and impulsive.
  • Motive was NOT robbery and NOT rape. Motive was PERSONAL CAUSE, as in rage or revenge.
  • Less than 1% chance it was a serial killer.

First he profiled Hae and stated that since she was not into drugs or prostitution, she was a low-risk victim. This meant her killer was most likely someone from within a small circle of people close to her. It was probably someone who had a relationship with her and this relationship was known by other people to exist. This is why she was hidden away after she was murdered, to prevent her discovery. A stranger doesn't care if his victims are found.

Clemente described Syed right down to his socks.

ETA: I personally gave the photos to Ann Brocklehurst at the same time they were given to xtrialatty, so I can assure you she has them. Each of the 3 of us who obtained the MPIA chose one person to whom to give the file. The file included color photos Undisclosed admittedly did not have and therefore were not given to Hlavity for her analysis either.
And? Does this in any way prove guilt?
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Old 8th November 2015, 07:04 AM   #151
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With regard to profiling "Psychological profiling 'worse than useless' "
http://www.theguardian.com/science/2...ral-psychology

Let us, for the sake of discussion, say that there is some merit however. Everything that fits Adnan fits Don just as well.
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Old 8th November 2015, 09:24 AM   #152
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Originally Posted by lionking View Post
And? Does this in any way prove guilt?
Criminal profiling is a useful tool to help narrow the field when looking for a suspect. Profilers attempt to discern what type of person is most likely to have committed the crime. It is a product of the FBI, so you'd have to ask them why they believe it to be useful and for this case, you'd have to ask Bob the fireman why he put so much hoopla into having Clemente profile Hae's killer. One thing I am certain about is that BtF did not expect Clemente to describe Syed perfectly. He even tried to steer Clemente into saying things toil rule out Syed, but Clemente stuck to his theory. I only brought it up because Desert Fox mentioned Clemente.

Quote:
"Does this prove guilt?"
Obviously it does not in and of itself. When it is added to all the other evidence, it completes the picture.

Quote:
"Clemente's profile fits Don."
No, it does not, not at all. Don and Hae were dating for less than a week. They did not have the type of relationship Clemente described. And really, how much rage can one build up in less than a week to commit what Clemente termed as a rage and revenge murder?
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Old 8th November 2015, 10:15 AM   #153
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Originally Posted by Ampulla of Vater View Post
No, it does not, not at all. Don and Hae were dating for less than a week. They did not have the type of relationship Clemente described. And really, how much rage can one build up in less than a week to commit what Clemente termed as a rage and revenge murder?
Crash and burn. . . .

By the police reports it was one day short of two weeks that they had officially been dating and there had been something going on for longer than that by Hae's diary.

Are you now going to accuse Susan Simpson of forging police reports?
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Old 8th November 2015, 05:28 PM   #154
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Originally Posted by Desert Fox View Post
Crash and burn. . . .

By the police reports it was one day short of two weeks that they had officially been dating and there had been something going on for longer than that by Hae's diary.

Are you now going to accuse Susan Simpson of forging police reports?
Oh good lord. Whatever. I am not going to argue over 7 days and what constitutes official dating. Don and Hae worked together at Lenscrafters. She had a crush on Don, but Don had no idea. She was a teenager. Her diary writings in December go from "I love Adnan" to "I love Don" and back again in less than a page.

Don and Hae went out to eat together after work on 1/1. They did not even kiss. At what point are they dating? Two days earlier she went out after work with a different male co-worker, was that a date? Two weeks earlier she wrote in her diary that she was so sorry to Adnan (for having a crush on Don) and that Adnan was her true love and "No more Don."

FFS I will concede that I should have written "less than 2 weeks" if that makes you happy. My point was Hae and Adnan were dating and having sex for coming up on a year. Don and Hae were dating for 13 days (and Don says she was more into it than he was.)

Which one fits the bill for someone who would have had revenge and rage in their mind/heart/body - the guy she just started dating or the guy she'd been seriously dating for a year who just got tossed aside?
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Old 8th November 2015, 05:34 PM   #155
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You believe what a person says who completely fabricated their alibi. . . .I see.

Maybe Don did not murder Hae but he certainly fabricated his alibi before it was even known that she was murdered.

BTW: What happened to having experts look at those pictures of the body that you are suppose to have?
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Old 8th November 2015, 07:27 PM   #156
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Originally Posted by Desert Fox View Post
You believe what a person says who completely fabricated their alibi. . . .I see.

Maybe Don did not murder Hae but he certainly fabricated his alibi before it was even known that she was murdered.

BTW: What happened to having experts look at those pictures of the body that you are suppose to have?
This is hilarious. You tell me I am wrong because Don told the police they began dating on 1/1 and in the very next post you tell ME I am the one with a problem because I am believing Don. You can't make this **** up!

What I wrote in my post was straight from Hae's diary. They were Hae's words, not mine. It appears you think I obtained my information from Don, but that is not so. My information was from Hae.

I am not paying for any experts to look at the photos I have. No matter what any expert says, it will not persuade those people who refuse to look at the evidence against Syed. If you or someone you know would like to pay for experts, go hire some and I will gladly provide the pictures.

Otherwise I am finished here. Your accusations are all over the place, you go from asking why BtF would lie and, when I point out that he does not have all the pictures, you resort to if-they-aren't-introduced-at-trial-then-they-are-no-good and then start claiming a Brady violation over something entirely different. When I explain how it cannot legally possibly be a Brady violation you jump to criminal-profiling-is-useless. When I explain how profiling is used successfully by respected agencies such as the FBI you switch to crash-and-burn-because-you-are-6-days-off. Now it is some rambling about me believing information from someone who faked an alibi when I was quoting an entirely different person. This is not honest debate about 2 differing opinions. I'm moving on.

If anyone is truly interested in this case and wants real information about it, feel free to PM me.
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Old 9th November 2015, 05:15 AM   #157
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So you agree that Don's alibi is a complete fabrication, created before anybody else knew that Hae was murdered, yet you see nothing suspicious about that. . . .Interesting, very interesting.

The thing is that you are arguing about Don's mental state based on what he told the detective, a person whom is willing to fabricate an elaborate alibi for a crime that did not exist (legally) yet.

Of course, if Don is the killer, he will very likely try to make the relationships seem less intense than it might actually be.

It is interesting how you have pictures of unknown providence that the prosecution did not use at trial yet you are unwilling to try to get them properly authenticated. Another very interesting statement.
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Old 9th November 2015, 01:33 PM   #158
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Undisclosed is getting unbearably pretentious, hipster and artsy fartsy. It was hard to listen to this last episode. Too much filler, too much faux-personna. That said, I wait with anticipation for each new episode!

I like the serial dynasty podcast a bit better, but I have doubts about it.

The Don thing is really interesting. If its as Bob Ruff spells out, what in the world is going on with his fake timesheet?
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Old 9th November 2015, 02:58 PM   #159
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Originally Posted by pipelineaudio View Post
Undisclosed is getting unbearably pretentious, hipster and artsy fartsy. It was hard to listen to this last episode. Too much filler, too much faux-personna. That said, I wait with anticipation for each new episode!

I like the serial dynasty podcast a bit better, but I have doubts about it.

The Don thing is really interesting. If its as Bob Ruff spells out, what in the world is going on with his fake timesheet?
Based on that, he has to be #1 suspect. I had long suspected him before this but it was because he did not get back to the cops until 0130 when they asked him if he knew anything.

Assuming that Don did murder Hae, I don't think there is any actual hope of getting enough evidence to go to court with it however.
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Old 6th December 2015, 07:34 PM   #160
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Listen to the latest Truth and Justice with Bob Ruff - Jay, in his testimony, and some point stated that he could see the body being buried due to the moon reflecting off the snow.

Bob Ruff has done some research and it appears as if there was no snow on the ground that day but I don't think it even matters. One the night of Jan 13 and 14, 1999, the Moon did not rise in Baltimore until 4:37 am on January 14 and had an illumination factor of 9.3%

Basically, his story does not match the moon at all.
http://www.timeanddate.com/moon/usa/...th=1&year=1999
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