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15th May 2015, 05:24 AM | #41 |
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15th May 2015, 06:14 AM | #42 |
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As human right is always something given, it always in reality reduces to the right which men give, "concede," to each other. If the right to existence is conceded to new-born children, then they have the right; if it is not conceded to them, as was the case among the Spartans and ancient Romans, then they do not have it. For only society can give or concede it to them; they themselves cannot take it, or give it to themselves. |
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15th May 2015, 06:21 AM | #43 |
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What has reasonable doubt got to do with anything? I'm not interested in whether she did it, and haven't argued that she's guilty.
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15th May 2015, 08:43 AM | #44 |
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15th May 2015, 08:47 AM | #45 |
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Well, not obviously vulnerable. Not young, for example. Maybd she was putty in their hands and confessed to a string of other crimes before they begged her to stop. All I'm saying is there is nothing about her AFAIK that would suggest someone incapable of withstanding the rigours of a lawful interrogation.
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16th May 2015, 08:16 AM | #46 |
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I put almost no value to unrecorded confessions
Even recorded, they can try to twist one word. Look at the case of James Braton and one word and one snitch convicted him. I believe he is also innocent. |
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16th May 2015, 11:42 AM | #47 |
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I realize they frequently aren't recorded, but are we sure that it wasn't in this case? I haven't seen any positive statement one way or the other.
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16th May 2015, 11:56 AM | #48 |
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I don't how you come to the side of innocence as far as her behavior goes. Going to bar singing /karaoke or similar is not something I was in the mood to do for weeks when I lost my girlfriend to cancer decades ago.
Sure people react differently but most people which I know grieve, do not go entertain themselves in such a way within a tenday. At the very least even if you do not hold that this suggest culpability, this does not suggest innocence in any way shape or form. At most you can only say "we don't know". |
16th May 2015, 11:58 AM | #49 |
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16th May 2015, 12:02 PM | #50 |
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Is she not fluent in English?
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16th May 2015, 04:46 PM | #51 |
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"The trouble with the world is that the stupid are cocksure and the intelligent are full of doubt." - - - -Bertrand Russell |
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17th May 2015, 12:37 AM | #52 |
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It's possible for native speakers to misunderstand things as well. Having said that, I'm curious what that error was that caused her to accidentally confess to murder. Doubtless it will be a while before we find out. Anyway, I was just reacting to the "not very fluent" statement in a previous post. At the moment I don't think it is obvious that she is not very fluent.
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17th May 2015, 01:56 AM | #53 |
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Some interesting bits and pieces in this article from the Daily Mail.
Her boat capsized and she was treated for hypothermia. She was rescued. She took 20 minutes to call 911. But wait. Why didn't the rescuers call 911? She allegedly told police she was glad when he drowned. She is a weirdo who seems very happy to be in prison etc etc. His body has not been found. I didn't know that. |
17th May 2015, 02:49 AM | #54 |
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17th May 2015, 04:01 AM | #55 |
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The Mail is all over the place. They have been claiming that the witnesses saw her pushing him in. Everybody else has been saying that the witnesses saw her jumping in ending her 911 call.
You seem to be making some assumptions here: 1. The rescuers were the witnesses. 2. That the rescuers weren't the emergency services. 3. That nobody apart from her called 911. I don't recall having seen anything that makes any of this clear. |
18th May 2015, 03:14 AM | #56 |
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Some interesting things in this article in The Inquisitor.
Graswald didn’t call 911 until 7:40 p.m. She remained on the phone and said she could still see the struggling man. Operators lost contact with her. Apparently, she claimed to have then capsized. However, police say at least one unnamed witness gave another account. They claim to have seen Graswald intentionally capsize her own kayak. Later, when speaking to investigators, she admitted to the inconsistency in her statement. She claimed to have done so because she wanted it to appear as if she tried to save the drowning man. She led police to the scene, where they recovered two kayaks, but the man’s body was not found. She called 911 then capsized? |
18th May 2015, 03:45 AM | #57 |
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reid_technique
read up on the reid technic it is a process where the polcie present you a story and give loaded question to ask you as if it could ahve wen this way, and when you agree they coerce out of you a confession it did go that way. "The idea is that the person under interrogation must catch the hidden assumption and contest it to avoid the trap. " I can see a foreigner which is not a natural in english falling in that trap easily. Notably the original conviction where this was used fist was overturned. |
18th May 2015, 03:57 AM | #58 |
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It looks like she did not actually confess so much as say she felt good when he died.
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18th May 2015, 04:29 AM | #59 |
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18th May 2015, 04:38 AM | #60 |
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18th May 2015, 10:01 AM | #61 |
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I'm aware of the technique. It just seems to me to be a bit speculative at this point. It could be that this happened, or maybe it didn't. There is no evidence one way or the other at this point. I haven't seen anything on whether the interview was recorded or not right now, quite possibly not, but who knows? Is the confession even the main bit of evidence that they have on her?
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18th May 2015, 10:05 AM | #62 |
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18th May 2015, 10:06 AM | #63 |
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18th May 2015, 10:31 AM | #64 |
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She looks like a blonde Nina Hagen and Nina Hagen is pretty wack, so she probably did it.
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18th May 2015, 11:54 AM | #65 |
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Unless there is some kind of twist, I think she is going to be convicted.
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18th May 2015, 12:38 PM | #66 |
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What doesn't make much sense is why she 'confessed' in the first place. I mean, it would surely be quite difficult to prove she intended to kill him. Why not just stick to her story it was an accident? Hopefully there's some other strong evidence which led them to charge her, not just the confession.
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18th May 2015, 01:05 PM | #67 |
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Its going to be hard to judge this before the details of who the witnesses are and what they saw are public. At this point, I struggle to see that the police have made any obvious mistakes in the case.
If the witnesses saw what the newspapers claim, it might have seemed hard to stick to the accident story. |
18th May 2015, 03:23 PM | #68 |
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19th May 2015, 02:50 AM | #69 |
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More here, mostly about her odd behaviour afterwards. Questions:
1 why wasn't he wearing his life jacket 2 how would she know the weather would become ideal later in the day? The article also says its normal for East Europeans to put on a front rather than show grief. |
19th May 2015, 03:50 AM | #70 |
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It will be certainly be interesting what concensus emerges from this thread.
One question that needs to be answered is why would two unlikely kayaking accidents happen at the same time? It is vanishingly unlikely, so her diary, the timing of the phone call, and the insurance policy scream guilt. |
19th May 2015, 04:23 AM | #71 |
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19th May 2015, 04:32 AM | #72 |
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19th May 2015, 04:49 AM | #73 |
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I don't find hoping very useful and don't usually get past just wondering until a lot more info comes to light. This one does not smell right to me but we need more data. There is enough that explains it as an accident. I don't see how she got him to not wear a life jacket. It took quite a while before the cops got interested. Did the witnesses who say she pushed him in (how do you do that, actually?) come forward at once of did their memories get to work later?
Oh and if he forced her to have threesomes, who with? |
19th May 2015, 05:21 AM | #74 |
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19th May 2015, 06:47 AM | #75 |
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"The trouble with the world is that the stupid are cocksure and the intelligent are full of doubt." - - - -Bertrand Russell |
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19th May 2015, 07:26 AM | #76 |
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I, too, have kayaked or canoed (er, what's the difference) a couple of times as a novice. The first time was against the tide on a windy day on the river Tamar in Devon (or whichever county it's in when it reaches the sea). I found it pretty tough going although I was never in danger. However, in rough, cold, overcast conditions, I can imagine it being no picnic.
Since they recovered both boats they could tell us what was wrong with his. |
19th May 2015, 07:53 AM | #77 |
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19th May 2015, 09:25 AM | #78 |
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19th May 2015, 11:07 AM | #79 |
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Usually, when planning to murder someone, it's because you want them dead without incurring too much risk yourself. Multiple attempts and failed attempts increase the risk of discovery. That would be my guess.
I am not keeping track of who is reporting what, TBH. Just lobbing in here what I come across. |
19th May 2015, 11:15 AM | #80 |
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Very much this. I wonder if his kayak didn't already have a faulty plug that was noticed but got the "nah, I'll fix it next time treatment". Also, how does an observer on the shore know when a kayak is capsized intentionally or by accident? Is there something obvious that needs to be done to capsize a kayak intentionally?
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