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Tags Angelika Graswald , kayaking , murder cases , New York cases

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Old 24th September 2015, 09:55 PM   #201
RWVBWL
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Hey Ya'all,
In case you are interested!

Here is a Justice for Vinny page:
https://www.facebook.com/Justice-for...6749/timeline/

And a Justice for Angelika page too:
https://m.facebook.com/Justice4Angelika
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Old 24th September 2015, 11:19 PM   #202
Samson
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Originally Posted by RWVBWL View Post
Hey Ya'all,
In case you are interested!

Here is a Justice for Vinny page:
https://www.facebook.com/Justice-for...6749/timeline/

And a Justice for Angelika page too:
https://m.facebook.com/Justice4Angelika
RWV, You are doing some good heavy lifting here, and of course we have years to go on this one. One thing I might ask you, since this guilter game is probably slightly outside your true comfort zone, after all damsel in distress usually needs expert assistance, and a chivalrous bent.
Do you imagine changing course and becoming a conventional innocenti, and what would you need?
I love the interrogations, because they eliminate the not good with language stuff. This girl could talk the leg off a donkey in perfect Americanese.
But what about this euphoric stuff?
Surely a guilty girl would avoid this sort of talk, especially if she was expecting to resume normal programming of her life.
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Old 25th September 2015, 01:51 AM   #203
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Originally Posted by TomB View Post
This doesn't really surprise me much at all. In rivers, currents are not uniform from shore to shore or top to bottom. It's been a while since limnology class and I'm not a hydrologist, but I believe around a bend, the current will be faster on the outside of the bend than the inside and surface current is often fast while current on the bottom is slow.

For illustration:

http://www.eoearth.org/view/article/155233/

Basically, once his body made it into one of these pockets of laminar flow, say on the bottom or the side of the channel, it's not going to go too far.

River paddlers (canoe and kayak) often stop to rest in quiet areas which form in spots along the sides of rivers. I've done this even in white water (Cheat River) running far too fast for anyone not in a boat of some sort to be safe.

Sometimes it's called "eddying up", as in finding an eddy current which actually flows backward from the main current and in a circular pattern.

Flotsam and debris are often caught in such eddys and can stay there for remarkably long stretches of time.
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Old 25th September 2015, 02:34 AM   #204
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More yakking tragedy today.

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/ar...ectid=11519019
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Old 25th September 2015, 11:37 AM   #205
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Originally Posted by Samson View Post
RWV, You are doing some good heavy lifting here, and of course we have years to go on this one. One thing I might ask you, since this guilter game is probably slightly outside your true comfort zone, after all damsel in distress usually needs expert assistance, and a chivalrous bent.
Do you imagine changing course and becoming a conventional innocenti, and what would you need?

Hiya Samson!
Thanks for the props,
yes, for the time being,
I am a Colpevolisti!

As we go waay back,
I value, I respect, and I will always consider your opinion, friend!



I'm digging deep,
but yet who knows, maybe I could someday be an Innocentisti, again!!!
I'll letcha know if and when I wanna display that card,
ya know...

That said,
let us continue onward with this discussion, ok?


Originally Posted by Samson
I love the interrogations, because they eliminate the not good with language stuff. This girl could talk the leg off a donkey in perfect Americanese.
<snip>

I have to agree, Samson!
this gal was in the U.S. of A. since she was 15 years old,
she told this on NBC news to a reporter, I seem to recall.
And yes, in case The Grinder is ah, lurking,
I can go dig up a link,
hahaha!



For any of you who believe that Angelika
can not understand nor can not comprehend English,
well have a look at this:




You do know that Angelika was study-in' for her Real Estate License,
right?

Here in America,
not in Latvia, ok?

So what language was she studying in,
or taking notes in, or gonna be quizzed in???

https://instagram.com/p/0Vn6lAqIjd/

Please, please, please
do not ask me to post what she wrote here,
in English, as she studied with The Rascal,
her kitty, nearby,
ok?

For if you know me, I will post it,
to the best of my ability!


Angelika can not understand speaking English or reading English?
Pfffft!...

I'd betcha that if I had stopped by The Grand Centro Grill,
(where Angelika was working as a bar tender when she 1st met Vinny),
and I had ordered my favorite drink,
a Jack + Coke with 2 cherries in it,
Angelika would not have given me a Jack + Pepsi with Fruit Loops in it!!!


RW

Last edited by RWVBWL; 25th September 2015 at 11:53 AM.
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Old 25th September 2015, 01:02 PM   #206
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I think the issue of her not understanding English was a concern not a major point

Samson's post just prior to yours is more of what I am concerned with. People die in almost freezing water pretty damn easily without any intent to kill anybody.
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Old 26th September 2015, 02:39 PM   #207
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Hi DesertFox!
We've got some history, online in debate.
I respect your posting's, your input, I'll listen to what you write...

That said,
Angelika's defense lawyer is and has been makin' a stink
that Angelika can not understand English.
Bull crap-ola!!!

As I showed up above in my last post here.
If I read about this online, well I'll rebuttal it,
ya know?

* * * * *

I'm gonna go odd-ball here,
hear me out, ok?

DesertFox,
Maybe I luved you before.
You're f***in' hot, treat me to the things I want,
make me feel sexy...

But nowadays,
maybe I can not stand you.
Maybe I'd like my freedom back, maybe I want you gone,
you bother me, you piss me off, all the time.
F***in' ****hole.

I do not want to go to a strip club with your friends,
I do not want to have a 3-some, or a 4-some with your friends!
I will smack you in public, in front of your ****in' friends!
*** off!


I'm kinda simple,
but do not ******* with me!

I just wanna dig in the dirt,
play in the flowers,
photograph beauty,
+ play with my cat...

But I'm not working, where can I go?
How can I survive?

I think I know a way to get rid of you,
and collect $250,000.00 dollars.
You ******.

I'll subtlety sabotage your kayak, your gear.
I hope that you die. I'll be ok with it...

Just like that f***ed up dude did to RW's sister,
who, using an icepick, kept on prickin' 14 of her GMC pick-up trucks tires,
a freak who seemingly wanted his sister dead.
You know what I'm writin' about...

* * * * *

People die in cold water all the time.
But what if they are pushed? Knocked outta their yak as it's gettin' dark?
What if the beneficiary of $250,000.00 dollars grabs his paddle
and just sits there, watching.

Watchin' him struggle, suffer, and drown???

Waiting.

And then finally,
after the dude says he ain't gonna make it,
calls 911 for help???

So,
ah, when was it that Angelika called 911 for help?
Before or after Vinny said he was not gonna make it?

So,
ah, why was Angelika,
for the 1st time ever seen in any of her yakin' pix,
wearin' a lifejacket that evening?

Sorry to go 1st or 3rd person on ya,
or whatever it is that I just did,
ok DesertFox!?

Look,
I can dig that cold water kills.
I surf, I yak.

My avatar shows me trunkin' it as I surf.
I dig doin' this, trunkin' it, often, over the last 5 years or so,
even in December, January, February, too.

I luv the feelin' of cold water on my skin,
far more than most peps can stand here in the waters of Los Angeles.
Sometimes I do so with a single airplane shot of JD or Vodka in the system, pre-surf...

The shot,
especially 2, make my brain not even feel the cold, cold waters in Winter...

That said,
have you ever had ice-creamin' head-aches from playin' in cold water?
Goin' under sooo many waves that your brain is freaking out?
It hurts, friend!


Ever had a hard time tryin' to able to zip up your pants after gettin' outta the water?
Or had a beeee-itch of a time fittin' the key into your car door lock,
your hands just do not work?...

I'll tell ya this,
if it is gettin' dark, and I can knock you outta your kayak with my paddle,
take your own paddle away from ya, and watch your arse suffer hypo and drown,
I too will collect them $250,000.00 dollars afterwards.

Get past the news media, the Family + friends, the police...
IF, IF, IF I got that Life Insurance policy in my name!
Just as long as no ones sees this...

I wonder what that witness,
who had a telescope in his living room and could watch the Hudson River waters,
told that Grand Jury investigatin' Vinny's death?

For Angelika's in a jail cell right now as I type and you read this.

And Vinny?
Well he lies in a grave.
A victim of what The State of New York calls his death,
A Murder.

Or is that just Manslaughter?
Pfffft.
RW

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Old 27th September 2015, 12:33 AM   #208
anglolawyer
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Randy, how do you visualise the part where she knocks him out of the boat? Also, when you fall out of a kayak, is it natural to let go of the paddle?
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Old 27th September 2015, 08:48 AM   #209
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Hi AngloLawyer,
Generally, when a person is coming up alongside another to meet up,
they are under more forward propulsion than the other person sitting there + waiting.

Even in choppy windy conditions,
been there, done this, many times.
When you're out on the water for hours and hours, ya gotta take a break sometimes...

As they near the stationary person,
they stop paddling, start to glide, they might even use the paddle blade to slow down a bit. At some point they usually take their kayak paddle out of the water and reach out with it, the person more stationary then grabs it and pulls the person coming near, closer, alongside.

This is when I can visualize Angelika taking her paddle
and pushing Vinny on the left side of his torso, causing him to capsize,
as he does not have any forward momentum...
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Old 27th September 2015, 08:55 AM   #210
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Originally Posted by anglolawyer View Post
Randy, how do you visualise the part where she knocks him out of the boat? Also, when you fall out of a kayak, is it natural to let go of the paddle?
I haven't read this whole thread, but in case it hasn't been posted, CBS "48 Hours" devoted an hour to this case and makes a compelling argument that the woman was framed by aggressive cops who started with false premises and interrogated her for 11 hours. For example, that missing "drain plug" is actually on the top of the kayak, and the small hole is used only to drain it when it's stored. They demonstrated that in actual use, only a few drops of water could enter the kayak that way. She pretty much told the cops whatever they told her to say. The show pretty effectively refutes each element of the prosecution's case. This looks like another case where the cops went after a suspect because she didn't grieve the way they thought she should.
http://www.cbsnews.com/news/interrog...k-murder-case/

Also, support for her:
http://www.people.com/article/kayak-...d-case-experts
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Old 27th September 2015, 09:00 AM   #211
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Missing gun, angry Diary

Greetings ya'all,
I had kinda wondered how the cops found Angelika's Diary,
I mean, did they get a search warrant to go look for it or something?

Reading around, I found this link:
http://www.hlntv.com/video/2015/05/1...murder-mystery

"She said police questioned her about a missing gun,
and found her Diary, detailing Viafore's alleged requests for rough sex,
3-somes, an entry she wrote wishing he were dead because of it".
Etc...


I own a gun, do any of you folks?
I know where it is at all the time.
A missing gun?
Hmmmm...


And that Diary,
sounds like some good stuff in there!
I wonder if Angelka wrote it Latvian?
Or English?
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Old 28th September 2015, 01:34 PM   #212
shuttlt
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Originally Posted by Bob001 View Post
I haven't read this whole thread, but in case it hasn't been posted, CBS "48 Hours" devoted an hour to this case and makes a compelling argument that the woman was framed by aggressive cops who started with false premises and interrogated her for 11 hours. For example, that missing "drain plug" is actually on the top of the kayak, and the small hole is used only to drain it when it's stored. They demonstrated that in actual use, only a few drops of water could enter the kayak that way. She pretty much told the cops whatever they told her to say. The show pretty effectively refutes each element of the prosecution's case. This looks like another case where the cops went after a suspect because she didn't grieve the way they thought she should.
http://www.cbsnews.com/news/interrog...k-murder-case/

Also, support for her:
http://www.people.com/article/kayak-...d-case-experts
The location and function of the drain plug should have been known to anybody interested enough in the case to spend half a minute on Google. Where are they getting the information on it only letting in a few drops of water? When I first read similar claims from the defence lawyer, I Googled "kayak drain plug dangers" and found this:

http://www.fishingfury.com/20130726/...dangerous-turn

I know the story has been posted upthread, because I posted it:
Quote:
What I also did not realize was that I had unscrewed the drain plug-in my kayak the night before to get some of the water out of it from when I capsized, and had forgotten to screw it back in before I headed out. I was out in the roughest seas I’ve ever been in, alone, and was taking on a lot of water without the slightest clue that it was happening.
Here's another one:
http://www.canoekayak.co.uk/Articles...t974_tp34_cat9
Quote:
This is a classic, and a favourite of paddlers of all levels of experience. The problem is today, in the world of ever bigger creek boats with plenty of volume to absorb water being taken on, it can be sometime before you realise that your kayak has come somewhat sluggish, and makes an unnerving sloshing sound as you turn and edge. Be vigilant, and always re-tighten your drain bung at the earliest possible opportunity after emptying. If you have ‘mischeviously fun’ paddling mates this process should be even more rigorous!
Presumably the case isn't just about whether or not a Kayak just lets in a few drops of water without the drain plug. Specifically searching for dangers is clearly not going to get a representative sample, but a "few drops" seems like excessive downplaying to me. It was pretty choppy on the day, wasn't it? In which case, surely he'd have been taking on a little water every time a wave went over the back of the kayak? If he paused and lent back, or anybody lent on the back of his kayak, he'd take on some water.

Edit: You said "they demonstrated" - where in the 48 hours do they demonstrate it? It's 43 minutes long.

Last edited by shuttlt; 28th September 2015 at 01:44 PM.
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Old 28th September 2015, 02:06 PM   #213
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Is see a demonstration 23 minutes in run by a defence expert in water with no meaningful waves where the kayaker says he's taking on minimal water. Im pretty sure they said earlier that the conditions were bad on the day with waves 4-5 feet high [I was wrong, it was 3-5 feet] and not at all like the conditions they were testing in. The 48 hours video format is terrible and keeps showing me ads, so it's hard to search.

There are then some more people from the defence saying that they had assumed the plug was in the bottom. I don't know why they would assume that. It seems to me like a hole in the bottom would cause the kayak to sink too quickly and obviously for it to pose a danger.

Is this what you are basing your post on? The parts I watched looked like a defence infomercial. Is there a prosecution rebuttal to this later on?

Last edited by shuttlt; 28th September 2015 at 02:42 PM.
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Old 28th September 2015, 02:18 PM   #214
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OK, I see about a minute later they for some reason do another test where they pull the kayak sideways through the water with the spraydeck on and off, and with the plug in and out. They appear to make one artificial wave break sideways over the kayak. For the spraydeck off/plug in test, they look in the middle and see water sloshing around. For the spraydesk on/plug out test, they instead tip the kayak out. I don't kayak often, but for small amounts of water, it is really hard to get the water out because the plug isn't actually in the end.

Honestly this is a weird test. Why create a fake sideways wave by strapping the kayak sideways to the back of the boat and generating some wash that looks nothing like a 4-5 foot wave, if that is what was supposed to have been breaking over the kayak on the day? Is there a reason why sideways waves are used here? I'd have thought you'd taken on a lot more water with the spraydesk off the way they do it than if the kayak actually got to ride over the waves as you would normally paddle. Who kayaks sideways on to 4-5 foot waves? Why use a single wave, when presumably lots of waves over an extended period would have been involved? This is a paid for defence demonstration.

Then they test whether holding the paddle would help him float by.... attaching the paddle to a brick rather than getting somebody to try and use it to help them float. In thinking about this it occurred to me, that my kids foam floats that they take to the pool have enough buoyancy to make a significant difference to how hard I have to work to stay afloat, but I can certainly make them sink to the bottom. Isn't their test far more demanding than it needs to be?

Last edited by shuttlt; 28th September 2015 at 02:53 PM.
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Old 28th September 2015, 11:36 PM   #215
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Originally Posted by shuttlt View Post
...
This is a paid for defence demonstration.
...
I don't have time to watch the video again, but note that a full transcript follows the video on the CBS link. What's really most significant is the degree to which the police pretty much fed her the lines they wanted her to say during an 11-hour interrogation. She doesn't seem to understand the trouble she's in, and starts talking about how she wants to finish up soon so she can go home and take care of her cat. But the video makes it pretty clear that she didn't tamper with the guy's kayak as the police claim (the craft wasn't going to sink with the drain plug out), she didn't sabotage his paddle, and she didn't somehow force him to go kayaking in cold water with high waves after consuming a near-drunk level of alcohol while not wearing a life jacket. This sure looks like another frame job.

Last edited by Bob001; 28th September 2015 at 11:40 PM.
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Old 29th September 2015, 12:37 AM   #216
shuttlt
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Originally Posted by Bob001 View Post
I don't have time to watch the video again, but note that a full transcript follows the video on the CBS link.
I spotted that after watching the video for a bit. It is much clearer in the video what tests they are actually performing and how.

Originally Posted by Bob001 View Post
But the video makes it pretty clear that she didn't tamper with the guy's kayak as the police claim (the craft wasn't going to sink with the drain plug out),
I see the defence saying that it wouldn't sink, but its not particularly surprising that they would say that. I don't see it being proved in any serious way. They do a weird test were they cause a single wave to go sideways over a kayak lashed to the back of a boat. And a report that no water went into the drain hole during realistic rowing in absolutely calm conditions. These are paid for acted out PR demonstrations by the defence handled completely uncritically, we should view them critically.

Last edited by shuttlt; 29th September 2015 at 12:45 AM.
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Old 29th September 2015, 01:35 AM   #217
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Originally Posted by shuttlt View Post
I see the defence saying that it wouldn't sink, but its not particularly surprising that they would say that. I don't see it being proved in any serious way. They do a weird test were they cause a single wave to go sideways over a kayak lashed to the back of a boat. And a report that no water went into the drain hole during realistic rowing in absolutely calm conditions. These are paid for acted out PR demonstrations by the defence handled completely uncritically, we should view them critically.
if the Kayak is like the one I have used, the actual flotation body is completely separate from the compartment you are in. It would not matter if it fills up with water, still be no issue. Biggest issue would be tipping over the kayak and falling out.
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Old 29th September 2015, 01:40 AM   #218
shuttlt
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Originally Posted by Desert Fox View Post
if the Kayak is like the one I have used, the actual flotation body is completely separate from the compartment you are in. It would not matter if it fills up with water, still be no issue. Biggest issue would be tipping over the kayak and falling out.
I agree. I think some of them also have foam floats in the body of the kayak. They tend not to want to sink to the bottom. A kayak is also much harder to move through the water when it's got a bunch of water in it.
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Old 1st October 2015, 06:23 PM   #219
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Luv that Motive

Question for you guys:
Who buys a $250,000.00 life insurance policy
and names the girl that he is just only dating,
as The Beneficiary?

A dude smitten?
A dude p-whipped?
Whip It, Whip It Good!

A dude blinded to his reality,
who is dating a girl that smacks him in public?

Where's the fat diamond?
Have a look at this pic:


If you've read my posts here on The Angelika Graswald Thread,
well ya might know I've spent some time diggin' around.

Odd to not see a huuuge diamond on Angelika's hand!
Not in any of the pix I've seen on her FaceBook page, nor Instagram.
BUT she did have a coupla huge life insurance policies in her name,
if I understand it correctly...


I dated a gal before,
bought her diamond earrings,
thought I was gonna marry her, and her kids too.

Told her 1 time,
(when I got sick with a tumor in my throat,
which made it sooo hard to yell out to the boyz surfin' next to Venice Pier,
heck they could not even hear me heckle, err I mean yell at them to "Catch a Wave".)
that I was gonna hook her up, err make that hook up her young son, if I died.

The chick told me, somewhat sarcasticly in her own off-beat way,
that I would be more valuable to her dead, then.
F' her!

I never bought her, err her kid, that life insurance policy,
never bought her a diamond ring, and she finally moved back home,
back east where she's from, yea! And I'm still alive, my voice is back and as strong as when I was a kid!
Stoked, ya might say!!!

* * * * *

So ah Vinny, well he'd been had been married before.
As did Angelika

As did my last significant GF.

As I'm an old Devo fan,
I'm kinda an odd-ball, so ah,
well let me get a lil Mongolid on ya!

This spud-boy, a member of The Smart Patrol,
well I've never been there, never done it, ya know, buy the chick a diamond ring, take that walk.
It's still been my Freedom of Choice
but if I ever do do so, if I ever do go for it!
it be cool right?


Will I be livin' in a Beautiful World?

Or will I be Through bein' Cool?


Gosh,
this geek, err Jocko Homo
sure hopes he ain't gonna be some dude who Can't Get Me No - Satisfaction! if he do!


Hahahaha!
* * * * *

As for Angelika,
well she had been married 2 times previously.
Been there, done that, right?

Have any of you dude's ever bought a girl a huuuge life insurance policy,
yet you did not have kids with her, nor had you even bought her a huuuge diamond ring, yet,
nor even married the gal, yet?

Just wondering.
In what kinda way does an un-married girl start a convo with her dude about life insurance???

After a night of "Rough Luv?"

"Hey baby,
will you still luv me when you're gone?!?"

For those $250,000 dollars,
well it sure seems like Angelika had a lotta freedom luving motive to me...
RW

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Old 1st October 2015, 06:37 PM   #220
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They were talking about getting married from what I understand. The life insurance could also cost as little as about $35 a month so not even that much money based on a healthy and fairly young woman.
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Old 1st October 2015, 06:49 PM   #221
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Hiya DesertFox,
Suuure, points noted.

But where's the diamond?
That pic I posted was uploaded on April 1st, 2015...

From what I recall,
Vinny had told 1 of his best gal pals a week or 2 before his death
that he did not think the relationship was gonna last.

And I also seem to recall watching Angelika's video interrogation,
I think it was on the 48 Hours show, where she talks with the therapist, err detective,
and says they were arguing the night before Vinny's death,
but made up by cuddling.

Cuddling.

I can dig it.
It's 1 of my favorite ways that I mention ****^^^
when I converse with cute chicks and gal pals around the beaches of L.A...

Bein an old dude, 1 who's still,
according to some of my gal pals, still runnin' wild,
well I luv me some old Devo, like this-ie here:
Pink PussyCat

Laughed when I heard Angelika mention that her and Vinny made up by cuddling.
You do know that Angelika wrote in her Diary that she wanted Vinny dead, because of their cuddling,
right?

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Old 1st October 2015, 09:46 PM   #222
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I haven't bought my partner a diamond ring either. So? So I'm a skinflint (she's not into jewellery fortunately). Randy, for my part, I'm happy to concede motive. I still don't buy this case.
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Old 2nd October 2015, 02:14 AM   #223
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Originally Posted by RWVBWL View Post
Hiya DesertFox,
Suuure, points noted.

But where's the diamond?
That pic I posted was uploaded on April 1st, 2015...

From what I recall,
Vinny had told 1 of his best gal pals a week or 2 before his death
that he did not think the relationship was gonna last.

And I also seem to recall watching Angelika's video interrogation,
I think it was on the 48 Hours show, where she talks with the therapist, err detective,
and says they were arguing the night before Vinny's death,
but made up by cuddling.

Cuddling.

I can dig it.
It's 1 of my favorite ways that I mention ****^^^
when I converse with cute chicks and gal pals around the beaches of L.A...

Bein an old dude, 1 who's still,
according to some of my gal pals, still runnin' wild,
well I luv me some old Devo, like this-ie here:
Pink PussyCat

Laughed when I heard Angelika mention that her and Vinny made up by cuddling.
You do know that Angelika wrote in her Diary that she wanted Vinny dead, because of their cuddling,
right?
RWL, This case is a little ripper. It has time to run, particularly if orange jump suit becomes subsumed into American iconography.
I am now intrigued to find over the coming years if you, or me, or Anglolawyer will changeour views.
Oh Amanda, you sure created entrenched positions.
No you did not, you created nothing, but we have a lot to think about as your case progresses through ECHR and history and popular culture.
Angelika, whither from here?
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Old 2nd October 2015, 03:25 AM   #224
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Originally Posted by Samson View Post
RWL, This case is a little ripper. It has time to run, particularly if orange jump suit becomes subsumed into American iconography.
I am now intrigued to find over the coming years if you, or me, or Anglolawyer will changeour views.
Oh Amanda, you sure created entrenched positions.
No you did not, you created nothing, but we have a lot to think about as your case progresses through ECHR and history and popular culture.
Angelika, whither from here?
And maybe Randy will change our views, Samson, or the trial will. we still need to know more about what the eye-witness(es) actually saw. If the case is based only on the 'confession' I don't a conviction here but who knows? The state of New York (or New Jersey) thinks otherwise.
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Old 2nd October 2015, 03:52 AM   #225
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Originally Posted by anglolawyer View Post
And maybe Randy will change our views, Samson, or the trial will. we still need to know more about what the eye-witness(es) actually saw. If the case is based only on the 'confession' I don't a conviction here but who knows? The state of New York (or New Jersey) thinks otherwise.
No greater friend to true justice could be imagined than RWV,
I now realise how speedily my views become intractable in these cases, that is part of my education....
It is an intriguing journey, in fact I think you are a trailblazer for promoting the principle of open minds, but I wonder if you can honour that in the breach. Your work on Dewani was sensational, though with hind sight just common sense (that happened to elude the family and the people) and so it goes on.
This post probably wanders off topic, I look forward to RWV expanding further.
I just wonder if Angelika told truth all the way, in the sense, she really did.

euphoric was her term, it was not led in interrogation.

That just means she had very conflicted feelings as events completely beyond her control unfolded.

Over to you RWVBWL and others....
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Old 2nd October 2015, 04:16 AM   #226
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Originally Posted by Samson View Post
No greater friend to true justice could be imagined than RWV,
I now realise how speedily my views become intractable in these cases, that is part of my education....
It is an intriguing journey, in fact I think you are a trailblazer for promoting the principle of open minds, but I wonder if you can honour that in the breach. Your work on Dewani was sensational, though with hind sight just common sense (that happened to elude the family and the people) and so it goes on.
This post probably wanders off topic, I look forward to RWV expanding further.
I just wonder if Angelika told truth all the way, in the sense, she really did.

euphoric was her term, it was not led in interrogation.

That just means she had very conflicted feelings as events completely beyond her control unfolded.

Over to you RWVBWL and others....
Well thanks. It's my day job to look for weaknesses in my own cases as well as those of my opponents' and I try hard not to mind being shown to be wrong in public. We should all strive in that direction when discussing these cases IMO.

If there is a witness who saw her paddling away when he was trying to reach her, or withdrawing her paddle or something that might slightly incline me to Randy's view but, even then, such conduct would not necessarily be criminal or even unjustified if she thought he would put her in danger. I have a strong feeling this case will be based almost solely on the 'confession' and should that be ruled admissible (excessive length, no lawyer) it will be thrown out before it reaches the jury.
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Old 2nd October 2015, 05:28 AM   #227
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Graswald can speak to the media

says judge

Quote:
On Wednesday, the District Attorney's Office learned Graswald would be meeting Thursday with people from ABC. Prosecutors then filed papers asking Judge Robert Freehill to order Graswald and Portale to stop making out-of-court statements, to protect the integrity of the process.


Freehill said he wouldn't gag Graswald, but Portale is barred from being there to steer the conversation.
"She has a right to sit down with a reporter and speak," Freehill said, but he added a caution. "Ms. Graswald must understand, she's damaging her own case, to a point. You've got to be careful what you say."
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Old 2nd October 2015, 01:49 PM   #228
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Originally Posted by anglolawyer View Post
says judge
Thanks for the info
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Old 26th November 2015, 09:09 PM   #229
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Greetings Ya'all!
been awhile since I posted here about the "accident" that took the life on Vinny Viafore.

So to get the conversation fired up again,
I wanna share a lil' convo I had with a fellow kayaker,
ok?



Originally Posted by A fella named "K1_paddler"
After adding 5 gallons of water,
his entire boat is that much lower and closer to the surface.

Look at his boat profile again:


If his boat has so much water that the drain hole is under the water line, so the water is coming through it in a continuous stream, that means the back of the cockpit rim is submerged as well, unless the bow is sticking way up in the air.

If the drain hole is not submerged, but is very close to the water line, that means the back of the cockpit rim is close to the water as well. And the boat is that much heavier, so it can't ride up on the waves anymore.

This means any tiny tiny ripple would lap right into the cockpit.

Hmmmm.
This quote above, well it get's me thinkin', visualizin'!
That recent ABC 20/20 show did have some good footage,
I'd just do different, better, more realistic tests, ya know?
http://abcnews.go.com/US/york-kayak-...ry?id=34973210


Let's have a look at how low the stern on Vinny's kayak is
as another experienced kayaker paddles a similar kayak away from Bannerman Island, ok?
From ABC's 20/20 show, linked above:



There will be, and already has been, water goin' over the stern. Look at the pic.
If the drain-age plug is removed, by "accident" or by "malicious premeditated intent",
water is now going to enter in thru that open hole, even if the water is calm, and flat, no wind.

Because the stern, like Vinny's kayak, or low like on my 15' Cobra Tourer,
well it will always get some water going over it.

It happens as you paddle, pulling, thrusting, propelling the kayak forward.
Tail sinks a bit, bow rises. More so if you paddle HARD.

Dang,
that drain-age plug hole, near the stern handle,
looks like, if unscrewed + opened, it is already gonna start taking IN water.
In the calm winds, + tiny ripples of waves that dude is paddling in.
And the dude is not paddling very hard.
Agree?

Heck,
as I and this K1 kayaker, well since we just do not agree,
that if the drain-age hole of Vinny's kayak was at or was now under the water line, that what Angelika did by previously removing Vinny's drain-age plug, that it did or it did not, contribute to his kayak taking on water and sinking, which helped contribute to his death, well let us see how fast water might flow thru that open drain-age hole, ok?




Dang!!!
Water can flow pretty fast thru that 1/2"(?) hole!



I don't know,
but, ah, in strong winds and high waves,
15 minutes or sounds about right, for Vinny's yak to start sinkin',
1/2 or 2/3rds of the way back across The Hudson River.
Like it did.

All because Angelika removed his drain-age plug,
allowing water to enter thru that drainage hole and help it to sink.



But hey,
what do I know, right?
See ya, RW

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Old 26th November 2015, 10:42 PM   #230
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Um, RW, being that I have watched both sides of that discussion, I think you are being very selective in what you have chosen to post in order to make your argument look good. Cherry picking like that does not really look good on your part.
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Old 26th November 2015, 10:56 PM   #231
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Hiya DesertFox,
Nice rebuttal!


Gotta bail,
but ah, before I do so,
what do you think of the fact that recently prosecutors apparently got a court order
for Angelika to give them a DNA sample?

It looks like,
from what I've read, that maybe Vinny might have been having an affair, and that his relationship with Angelika was possibly not gonna work out, as he wrote his gal pal Amanda just a coupla weeks before his "accident". Heck, maybe Vinny Viafore was gettin' tired of Angelika smackin' him in public. Don't know what I am writin' about?

From CBS:
Vincent Viafore's friend, Sheri Parte, says Graswald could violently turn on him when she was drunk.

"She would smack him so hard across his face and -- and he would just look at her and be like ... he would not get mad.
And she'd do it again and she'd do it again," she explained.

Just two weeks before his kayak capsized,
Amanda Hoysradt says Viafore texted her, expressing some doubts about his relationship with Graswald.

"You know, he didn't think it was gonna work," she said.

Link:

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/interrog...k-murder-case/


Don'tcha too wonder about this new development,
why Angelika had to recently give a DNA sample?

Link:
http://www.poughkeepsiejournal.com/s...ring/75642116/

See ya next time, I gotta bail,
RW

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Old 26th November 2015, 11:21 PM   #232
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What his specific argument is that they are both, to be extremely blunt, amateurs at kayaking. They both would have little understanding of the possible dangers on the environment and were likely under the effects of alcohol.

His boat has been also called dangerous by other kayakers and he did not have the specific equipment required for dangerous conditions and neither did she.

Her ability to create such a situation seems to be bizarre.
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Old 27th November 2015, 07:44 AM   #233
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Hiya DesertFox,
You do know that Vinny used to own a Stingray powerboat, don'tcha?
Here's what kinda boat these are:
http://www.stingrayboats.com/

Some folks think that VV had no water skills when dealing with the Hudson River. I'd betcha a dude like Vinny who owned and used a Stingray on the Hudson knew a lil bit about those currents and tidal surges that our bro mentions.

Betcha VV would know how to deal with currents and wind waves more so than the average Joe who went into Dick's and bought a coupla kayaks, a coupla kayak paddles, a coupla life jackets to paddle on The Hudson River.

Oh wait a sec, Vinny was not wearing a life jacket when he had his "accident"
But according to Angelika, Vinny made her wear her lifejacket that day, right?

So where was his life jacket? Vinny did not purchase 1 when he bought the 2 kayaks, the 2 paddles? Her lifejacket?

The kayaks were kept in the living room, behind the couch,
as far as I have seen from a photo on Instagram. You can see at least 1 paddle, Angelika's, inside VV's blue yak:



Where was her lifejacket stored at, kept that day before she put it on?
Was it stored in the cockpit of her kayak? In his cargo compartment?

Why did Vinny tell her to wear it,
because he checked the weather, and knew that conditions when they left or came back might get windy?

From viewing the Instagram pix,
the 1st time I see a shot of their blue + red kayaks is 1 posted on May 11, 2014:
https://www.instagram.com/p/n4kKbPqI...=angelikas_eye

Heck, if these 2 were novice kayakers, well it sure seems like Angelika picked it up fast, for in another Instagram posting, this on June 14, 2014, she is sitting with her knees propped up, drinking a Modelo beer, while out on the waters of The Hudson River:
https://www.instagram.com/p/o_6j9VKI...=angelikas_eye


I hope that the Detectives can find out when + where,
the kayaks, paddles and Angelika's lifejacket were bought and see if they can get a copy of the probable computerized cash register receipt. Why?

To answer this question:
Did Vinny also buy himself a life jacket?
Did Vinny own a lifejacket?
I betcha he did.

Where was it that day he told Angelika,
(according to her), to wear her lifejacket????


For if you watch that ABC 20/20 program, linked here again:
http://abcnews.go.com/US/york-kayak-...ry?id=34973210
well you will see Vinny and Angelika sitting in 2 beach chairs, from Dick's,

in the same blue and red colors as the kayak they each paddled in...

Vinny Viafore bought 2 beach chairs, 2 kayaks, 2 paddles, BUT only 1 life jacket?
Hmmmm.

I'll be online today for a bit,
in case ya wanna respond...
RW

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Old 27th November 2015, 08:09 AM   #234
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Originally Posted by RWVBWL View Post
<snip>
That's a lot of 'maybes' and 'possiblys' allied to speculation and cherry picking.
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Old 27th November 2015, 08:55 AM   #235
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Originally Posted by catsmate View Post
That's a lot of 'maybes' and 'possiblys' allied to speculation and cherry picking.

Hiya Catsmate,
I'm glad to be debating this "accident" here again on The JREF, err, I mean, The ISF!!! I like the style here...

That said,
I am a loooong time surfer, a surf photog, a kayaker. 1000's, maybe over a hundred, or 2 of 1000's of hours doin' this. I deal with surf, wind, swell, every day, all thru-out the day. In fact, right now, I am 20 feet way from the waters of The Pacific Ocean, and though the surf is small here on a certain beach in Los Angeles, the waves are waaay bigger than the waves which I know that VV and Angelika dealt with that Sunday evening.

You folks around the country, around the world,
who might not deal with waves every day, well ya might not understand what I try to tell ya.
No biggie, I'm here to help ya understand, ok?



Let us have a look once again of that ABC 20/20 show recently.
http://abcnews.go.com/US/york-kayak-...ry?id=34973210

Below,
here is screen-grab pic of Elizabeth Vargas,
talking with a dude with the last name of Wright.

See that little wave that is starting to ripple over the stern of his kayak,
the same model, and color blue,
that Vinny Viafore was paddling in back towards Plum Point when he had his "accident"?



That if he died, by "accident", Angelika Graswald stood to earn a cool quarter of a million dollars.
$250,000.00 in cold° hearted cash, as Vinny Viafore, shivering, gets cold, colder, and dies, freezin' cold in 48° snow-melted water when he slips under the waters of the river he grew up on, The Hudson River...


I play in the waters of The Pacific Ocean sometimes,
near this temperature.
I can feel it.

* * * * *

Look closely at the screen-grab pic above.

See the stern of that blue kayak?
That little wave is startin' to wash over it's stern, it's carrying handle, it's drain-age plug.

Guess what?
If that Wright dude has his drain-age plug removed,
well water is going to enter thru that hole.

And it will help to sink his kayak, by helping to sink the stern,
which will bring the cock-pit lower, allowing more water to then enter the cockpit area,
as water still, continuously enters that open drain-age hole.

* * * * *

See that 2nd lil' wave in the screen grab photo above?
It too is gonna break, so to say, and wash over the kayak stern,
and water will get in thru that open drain-age hole of that kayak.


Lets us see what that 2nd lil' wave did do,
ok?



Dang,
more water washing over the stern, and into that open hole in the kayak.
And that Wright dude, he don't even, apparently, know it!
Damn!!!

15, 20 minutes of this happening before Vinny Viafore capsized,
sank?

And you folks who argue Angelika's innocence do not see this???
Hmmmm.

My opinions, and 2¢ only,
Randy Wright
LAsurfpix.com

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Old 27th November 2015, 10:28 AM   #236
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Originally Posted by RWVBWL View Post
<snip>

To answer this question:
Did Vinny also buy himself a life jacket?
Did Vinny own a lifejacket?
I betcha he did.

<snip>

If he owned and was running a Stingray (or any other powerboat) then he most certainly owned at least one life jacket. Probably more unless he only took it out by himself, because he would have had to have one for every passenger on the boat.
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Old 1st December 2015, 01:59 PM   #237
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If I go out in a boat/kayak without a lifejacket, there is only one person to blame: me. Even if my wife had hidden my life jacket, it would be my responsibility because I chose to knowingly go out without it. And there is no way I could unknowingly go out without it.

Likewise, the plug. He went out onto the water without it. Seems like something one would check. That check would have been his responsibility. Obviously, he didn't check. If he had, he may have still gone out, but he would have plugged it with something. I've improvised boat plugs for Jon boats before when they were forgotten. This would be even easier to compensate for as you don't need a completely water tight seal, just something that will deflect most of the water.

If the lack of plug contributed to his death, then Vinnie himself is largely responsible regardless of the actions of anyone else.

Even if Angelika DID remove the plug for some reason, you would have a hard time proving that it was done with the intent of causing his death.

Why would someone take out a life insurance policy with a girlfriend as a beneficiary? I don't know. But by this logic, just about every married person has a motive to kill their spouse. Likewise most married person has gripes, complaints and resentments about their spouse that they might talk about to their friends or in their diaries. I've listened to a lot of coworkers (mostly women) complain about their husbands in terms that would lead you to think they despised them. If you live with someone, congratualations! you have motive for murder!

To prove that this was a murder you have to PROVE that she took deliberate action to cause his death. The only thing I've seen that even resembles that is the possibility that a witness might have seen her push him in. But I'm not sure how reliable that is.

She may have done it, but the boat plug thing is a red herring as there are innocent explanations, and the responsibility for its absence ultimately lies with the victim. Same with the life jacket.
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Old 1st December 2015, 02:01 PM   #238
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I am getting a life insurance paying out to my roommate. . . We got a house together and if something happened, he would not be able to afford it.
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Old 2nd December 2015, 04:08 AM   #239
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Originally Posted by TomB View Post
If I go out in a boat/kayak without a lifejacket, there is only one person to blame: me. Even if my wife had hidden my life jacket, it would be my responsibility because I chose to knowingly go out without it. And there is no way I could unknowingly go out without it.
Exactly.

Originally Posted by TomB View Post
Even if Angelika DID remove the plug for some reason, you would have a hard time proving that it was done with the intent of causing his death.
Also true.

Originally Posted by TomB View Post
Why would someone take out a life insurance policy with a girlfriend as a beneficiary? I don't know.
Well I did. She was also the listed beneficiary of my employer's death-in-service package. It's hardly uncommon especially if they're living together or otherwise have shared expenses that would be effected by the death of one party.

Originally Posted by TomB View Post
But by this logic, just about every married person has a motive to kill their spouse.
Well yes.

Originally Posted by TomB View Post
To prove that this was a murder you have to PROVE that she took deliberate action to cause his death. The only thing I've seen that even resembles that is the possibility that a witness might have seen her push him in. But I'm not sure how reliable that is.
Exactly. There's simply no evidence for any deliberate intent to cause death or injury.

She may have done it, but the boat plug thing is a red herring as there are innocent explanations, and the responsibility for its absence ultimately lies with the victim. Same with the life jacket.

Originally Posted by Desert Fox View Post
I am getting a life insurance paying out to my roommate. . . We got a house together and if something happened, he would not be able to afford it.
A classic case of Insurable Interest.
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As human right is always something given, it always in reality reduces to the right which men give, "concede," to each other. If the right to existence is conceded to new-born children, then they have the right; if it is not conceded to them, as was the case among the Spartans and ancient Romans, then they do not have it. For only society can give or concede it to them; they themselves cannot take it, or give it to themselves.
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Old 3rd December 2015, 08:39 PM   #240
RWVBWL
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Originally Posted by TomB View Post
If I go out in a boat/kayak without a lifejacket, there is only one person to blame: me.

Hiya TomB,
You know somethin I've learned from surfing, plus kayaking, and also,
many years ago being out on Lake Mead as a kid with my long deceased Grandpa Eddie,
whom helped build that Hoover Dam?

It is that life jackets suck if you want to,
or need to go for a swim. Back to shore.

Ever go down to the beach and watch big waves hit the coastline and surfers come, paddle out to ride 'em? You know that bigger waves break farther off the shoreline, right? At some surfspot line-ups it's a good long paddle out there, or back in. Against currents, riptides, undertow, wind even, sometimes.

How many surfers wear life jackets?
See my current avatar? I don't have a life jacket on.
Your leash breaks, you gotta go for a swim...

Life jackets might be great for folks who don't swim too good,
or are far from shore, or don't have other gear to help themselves.
So they need to float around and wait for some help.

I have Vinny's yak in my quiver right now.
I've put some 41.53 miles of paddling on it so far, did some 28 odd miles yesterday,
I've been as far offshore as 1.68 miles off the Malibu coastline.
Waved hi to a coupla The Baywatch Lifeguard Boyz as they cruised by me as I was returning,
nearshore then, off Dukes in Malibu...

I have a life jacket, it's yellow, but faded,
so it's been re-colored, bright orange.
But I have not been using it recently.

My life jacket consists of Viper swim fins and my Ripcurl fullsuit,
which I'll finish completely putting on, up over my shoulders and then zip it up if the sheee-it hits the fan
and that yak sinks, and I can not bail it out.

Need a bailer? Use your dive knife to cut the top off a plastic water bottle, it will bail, slowly. Better yet, bring a larger 2liter bottle of soda or re-filled with your favorite bev and then if need be, cut that top 1/3 off, it will bail a kayak pretty fast, I'd betta faster than those lil pumps I've seen. Need a signal mirror? A CD or DVD works good if need be. Gorilla tape is better than duct tape, etc...

That yak that Vinny used is very stable, handles winds, swell, and rides breaking waves near shore pretty good. I have wave surfed it. On moving waves, not standing waves, err rapids breaking as water rushes downstream over some clump of rocks in some narrow creek or river...

Some dude I debate elsewhere read something on the Internet + thinks the seating area bulkhead on a Fusion 124 kayak will not allow water to come back up from the stern area, (were it usually collects), towards the middle of the yak, or ecks, even near the bow. He is wrong.

If you get enough water in there, as I did playing and doing some basic tests, nearshore, like riding moving, open faced waves again and again. A coupla times, on purpose, I went for it, riding waves for too long and too close to shore, so that in the shallow waters, the moving wave then crested over and broke, getting some water over and into the open un-skirted cock-pit.

Do this a few times, get enough water in the cock-pit and ya will notice as you paddle back out to catch another wave that this water, it can + indeed will definitely come forward from underneath the seat, and can also come forward from both sides of the seat bulkhead.

Heck, no kayaker wants water splashing forward, hanging up around the bow area, any boater knows this. Paddling a kayak with water splashing forward into the bow area sure would be a pain in the arse when dealing with winds and waves, I betcha. Make for slooow goin', paddlin' a kayak with its bow heavy...

My 2¢ only,
RW

Last edited by RWVBWL; 3rd December 2015 at 08:48 PM.
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