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29th September 2016, 01:53 PM | #361 |
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For me, that just strengthens the idea it was an intruder -and increases the likelihood it was just a stranger, too.
I've been thinking it was someone they knew because it seemed the person would have to take off gloves for some of things they did, but that whatever fingerprints he left behind were not seen as unusual. If he was able to wear gloves to break in, write the note, gather the blanket, assault and kill the girl, and finally get back out again I see no reason to believe he would've left any other trace of himself. Footprints would be about the only other thing likely, and that could be prevented by removing his shoes or even by covering them with plastic bags or something. |
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29th September 2016, 01:54 PM | #362 |
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Which would have the problem of:
1) might still give hints to the police about who was involved (such as "Oh, yea, I remember I ran over somebody's dog last week. Maybe you should go talk to him") and 2) It would destroy the "mystique" that the kidnapper was trying to install, that he was part of some organization |
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29th September 2016, 01:57 PM | #363 |
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I'm not exactly a crime expert.
I can try to find the reference, but I have read an article discussing a girl who claimed an intruder had broken in, tied her up and raped her. The police didn't believe any intruder even existed, and even pressed charges for false reporting against her. They didn't believe her until years later a serial rapist was arrested who's MO matched what she described, and who had photos of her from when he had attacked her. Did evidence of that person exist? Doesn't matter; the police didn't find it. Maybe they didn't even look. But they didn't even believe he existed. However, I think your statement misses a few things. First, there is some very solid evidence, and some possible evidence. The killer left a long ransom note. That is most definitely evidence. Apparently, there was a footprint, hairs, fibers from fabric and DNA residue. Were any of them from the killer? We don't know. But they might have been, so it is entirely possible that the killer left a ransom note, footprint, hairs, fibers and DNA traces. That's a far cry from "no evidence". I'm also not very knowledgeable about forensic science, but on reading a bit they make it pretty clear that to discover trace evidence - small hairs, skin pieces, saliva, etc, it is very important to have an uncontaminated crime scene. This was absolutely not the case here. There were around 8 hours of numerous people moving around before they even started treating it as a murder. That really messes up the potential for trace evidence. Was that hair from a killer, or did someone track it in? No way to know. And I'm really not sure what the state of DNA evidence was like 20 years ago when this happened - I gather it has come a long way since then. I ask again, and I'm genuinely wanting to know - what sort of evidence are you expecting an intruder to have left that the police would find and make use of? And how would that differ from what evidence you would expect if the killer were a family member? |
29th September 2016, 02:00 PM | #364 |
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But don't all kidnappers constantly gush blood and deposit semen on every surface? That's the impression I get from the Inside Jobbers. "Everything must be covered in trace evidence that must be easily identifiable if it were an intruder".
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29th September 2016, 02:02 PM | #365 |
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29th September 2016, 02:15 PM | #366 |
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This is not a nitpick. I think it is a very important concept, especially for a skeptics forum.
When trying to decide between two options, A and B, "I don't know the details on A" does not mean B is automatically true. It just means you don't know. Either B needs to be proven, or A needs to be disproven. "I don't know" doesn't prove anything.
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The father could have been sleeping or watching a movie. Or he could have been involved. We don't know - heck, I'm just randomly speculating. But given the intruder hypotheses, we have people in the house unaware of what was going on. So it must be plausible to have people in the house unaware of what was going on. The marks on the body (you mean the "taser"/train track marks right?) might not even be connected. We know she was hit, so of course it was plausible that she was hit. In neither the intruder or the family case do we know what she was hit with. People getting murderously mad happens. It is well within the realm of plausibility. We don't have to know WHY this particular instance happened for this to be plausible, nor can we know why. We also don't know why an intruder would be murderously hostile to the family.
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There's a comment I recall from Snopes discussing conspiracy theories and airplane crashes; only an unusual set of circumstances is likely to bring down a passenger plane, so of course any passenger plane crash is going to be unusual. |
29th September 2016, 02:31 PM | #367 |
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29th September 2016, 02:35 PM | #368 |
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That keeps showing up... "how could the killer be sure of not leaving evidence?", "how could an the killer be sure of not running into anyone?"
Why does the intruder (if there was one) have to be completely, accurately confident of these things? People do stupid things. People get stupid ideas into their head. People get overconfident. People don't think things through. Maybe the killer thought wearing gloves was enough, and just happened to get lucky and be right. |
29th September 2016, 02:52 PM | #369 |
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The stun gun theory has been discredited. The marks were too close together to have come from a stun gun.
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[quote[And Burke, a 9 year old, is shipped off to school, and is subjected to multiple police interviews, yet at no point did he ever let it slip that he did something. 9 year olds generally aren't that smart.[/quote] Burke was only interviewed once. |
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29th September 2016, 03:09 PM | #370 |
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Uhhh... no. We know that the police were focusing on the Ramseys. That was obvious from media leaks, actions by the DA, etc.
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Secondly... I notice you overlooked the second piece of the evidence... that the tape contained animal hair not matched to anything in the house. Even without the human hair, the presence of that animal hair should be considered evidence that there was an intruder. (Unless of course you're suggesting that as part of the staging, Patsy went and found a beaver to rub on JonBenet's face after death.)
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What I have said is that it is less common for middle age people to watch action movies. That's what I've always said. Less common. Do you even understand what that means?
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Now, I am not saying that is proof of anything. But it certainly hints that, all things being equal, that the note was written by someone that was younger.
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Seriously, what are you expecting? I've known some pretty dumb people in my life. But even the dumbest of them had no problem walking from one room in a house to another without gushing blood on the walls or depositing semen on the floor.
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Oh, and possibly some DNA. And maybe (just maybe) a boot print. Even without the bootprint or DNA, things like the tape roll and the unknown hairs should be enough physical evidence to cast doubt on the inside job theory.
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Even if I knew your case was true and had all the details, it would only be relevant if the person "snapped" but then was able to cover up the crime (which is one of the problems with the insider theory... even if a parent snapped, they'd then have to become totally emotionless while doing the staging... that's the big problem; snapping/crazy response, then cold and calculating.)
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The fact that hasn't happened before doesn't necessarily mean that it is in any way impossible, or unlikely should the ideal conditions occur.
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Perhaps if you could actually develop a complete narrative. But you won't. Because it would show that the Inside Job theory is bunk.
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You were smart enough to know that recovering after being knocked out for an hour is unlikely. One point in your favor. However, assuming that your experiences apply to everyone removes one point. Arguing by building strawmen and distorting things I actually said... deduct another point. Inability to create a plausible narrative for an inside job and/or the ability to recognize the importance of one? Deduct yet another point. So, one point for smart... 3 points for not so smart.
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Killing someone is stressful. So would discovering your child's dead body and deciding to write a ransom note as part of a cover up. People tend not to react well to such stress.
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"Trace" has been found. You just either ignore it (animal hairs on the tape) or suggest that "Its all staging". |
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29th September 2016, 03:13 PM | #371 |
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Did Jon-Benet Ramsay's brother kill her?
Absent a sudden witness with physical evidence, a verifiable confession or the development of the (physics impossibility) trans-temporal movement of large objects including life forms), we will never know!!!!!!! |
29th September 2016, 03:20 PM | #372 |
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Evidence from some medical examiners differs from your assertion.
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"There's no evidence". "Here's some of the evidence". "That's not evidence because even though I have no proof I still think its not evidence".
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Their son, Burke, has been interviewed by investigators at least three times since his sister's death, including a six hour interview last June... And even if he was only interviewed once (my reference shows that that wasn't the case, but lets say he was).... He's still a child standing up to a police officer, and somehow manages to not crack and let something slip? |
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29th September 2016, 04:41 PM | #373 |
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I included a link to a video where it is laid out point by point. Thanks for playing.
The marks did not match any known stun gun. The tape could have come from a doll. There is a school of thought that it was from the back of a doll they had in the house. So you know if you are "caught talking to a stray dog" it will result in the death of your child and you call nearly a dozen people over to the house? Not only that, but your child was just snatched by someone targeting you who is on the loose so what do you do? You send Burke over to a friend's house. It's just too inconsistent with what 99% of people would do. |
29th September 2016, 05:10 PM | #374 |
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29th September 2016, 07:12 PM | #375 |
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29th September 2016, 07:44 PM | #376 |
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29th September 2016, 08:19 PM | #377 |
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29th September 2016, 08:45 PM | #378 |
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My post was accidental, as it wasn't finished, and I just discovered it. Anyway...
It's not particularly subjective. If I jab myself with a fork, the marks are going to be the same distance apart as the prongs on the fork are. The Ramsey's paid flacks can say whatever they want.
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29th September 2016, 08:59 PM | #379 |
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Yes, the precious son. Who killed your daughter. But you won't hold that against him because he's so precious. After all, love is easily transferred between siblings. Sort of like a family version of Highlander. There can only be one!
And your remaining son is so precious that, despite the fact that you're not career criminals, you'll be able to go the rest of your life without ever letting it slip that your son killed JonBenet. By the way, how are you defining 'accidentally kills'? A sort of 'slip and fall'? In that case why would you need to protect him, since it wasn't intentional. Something more direct (like hitting her with a flashlight)? Well, ok, there you need to protect him, but you do so with the knowledge that it wasn't just some playing that got out of hand but an intent to hurt, and you're protecting that person. |
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30th September 2016, 12:41 AM | #380 |
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I think the pineapple is largely irrelevant. Given variance in digestion times, we just can't know when she ate it. Maybe her killer gave her some, maybe not. Ultimately, I think it's one of the least illuminating pieces of evidence.
It makes far more sense if an intruder broke into the house, probably through the basement window, bringing the flashlight, cord, duct tape, cloth, and rope with him in a paper bag. The Ramseys were gone at Christmas dinner so this person would have had as much as 4-5 hours to scour the house and revel in his sadistic fantasies. He finds the pad and paper and, while waiting, uses them to write a taunting ransom note. He finds this brilliant and hilarious, since he already knows he’s going to kill her and never call them to make a ransom drop. He even added the flourish of the exact amount of John’s bonus to the note. This amount could've been easily discovered by a stalker rummaging through the house for hours but it's something that will give the Ramseys and the police pause. This detail would mess with everyone’s head and even implicate the Ramseys to some, even though it’s utterly meaningless IMO. Nothing in the note necessarily indicates that this person actually knew the Ramseys and had a real life beef with them. It's all movie dialogue bluster that could've been written by anyone. After writing the note, he goes upstairs and hides in John Andrew Ramsey's bedroom, next to JonBenet’s. There was a dirty rope and paper sack found there that the Ramsey’s didn’t recognize, that the police have no proof of them purchasing, and fibers from the bag were found in JonBenet's bed and the body bag she was taken to the morgue in. The killer probably hid under the bed as it was photographed by police and the dust ruffle was disturbed. If the killer had been stalking the family all day, he would know that John's oldest son wasn’t staying with them and wouldn’t return to discover him in his room. This way, he could hear when they came back and would know when everyone was asleep. Once they were, he could quietly step into JB’s room and place the duct tape over her mouth and stun gun her on the side of her face (the stun gun theory has never been confirmed or disproven but nothing else fits the marks on her body better, certainly not the railroad tracks from the basement). She was unconscious and could easily and quietly be taken to the basement. Once he’d gotten that far, the rest would be horrifyingly easy, especially with her parents three floors away. The Burke did it theory doesn't account for the hemorrhaging and defensive scratches on her neck, which indicate that she was alive and had regained consciousness while the garrotte was placed on her. The head wound caused massive damage and inflammation and hemorrhaging indicate that she was alive when the head blow was struck but the very small amount of blood (about 1 1/2 tsp) indicates that the blow to the head was likely peri-mortem (just before death, while her circulation was compromised). In other words, the head blow finished her off, it wasn't the beginning. The Burke did it theory also doesn't account for the fact that she was sexually assaulted that night. The garrotte was tightened, probably from behind, causing her to urinate on the anterior portion of her long johns (the front portion of her clothing was urine stained but not her bedding, so the Patsy-killed-her-in-a-bedwetting-rage theory is also BS). The hyperemia in the vestibule and distal vaginal wall, the red blood cells, and semi-fluid blood found on her vaginal fourchette, vestibule, and perineum means she was sexually assaulted while still alive and the absence of white blood cells responding to the trauma means she was assaulted shortly before death. There’s abrasion near and involving the hymen, which was torn with blood presence, epithelial erosion, and capillary congestion, indicating a recent tear via penetration. Probably by the paintbrush handle as small shards of wood and varnish from the brush were found in her vagina. What parent with no history of abusive behavior would do that to cover up an accident committed by a 9 year old who couldn't be held legally accountable? The pubic area had also been wiped with a cloth or towel that wasn’t identified or found in the house. The sexual assault IMO proves that not only didn't the Ramseys kill her but neither did some family friend or business enemy out to get John Ramsey. What was done to JonBenet is something only a sadistic pedophile could do. There was blood on her panties mixed with male DNA from saliva and the DNA doesn’t match anyone in her family. That same DNA is a match to the DNA found in different locations on the pants she was wearing. The amount of DNA found was 12 times more than manufacturing contamination can explain based on studies of manufacturing contamination so, the investigators on this show handwaving it away was utter nonsense. Scant manufacturing contamination cannot explain common DNA being in so many places on two different garments from two different manufacturers, mixed with her blood and under her fingernails (the fingernail DNA was too degraded to make a good match but there were several common markers so, it's believed to be that of her killer's as well). The DNA found on her body was of sufficient quality to meet the CODIS Core Loci requirements for inclusion in the CODIS database, which has standards to prevent incidental DNA from being included. Then there's the pubic or axillary hair found on the blanket her body was wrapped in which matches no one in the family. There's no real evidence that anyone in her family killed her, it's all innuendo and supposition. The Boulder police screwed up so badly that they will never catch her killer unless they get extraordinarily lucky with the CODIS database and get a DNA hit. That the same detectives that botched the crime scene, deliberately planted bogus stories in the press to slander the family from the beginning, and refused to consider alternate suspects before it was too late are still trying to nail them even after the DNA has proven to not be their's is reprehensible. These people were in over their head from day 1 and are using conspiracy theories to cover their incompetence.The "experts" CBS used were not impressive in the least, especially the alleged profilers. |
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30th September 2016, 03:07 AM | #381 |
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Has anybody checked to see if Burke was able then, or is able now, to tie the knot that was used in the JonBenet murder? I know that internet posters have said in the past that it was a simple knot and Burke was in the boy scouts and John Ramsey was in the Navy. All I know is that I was in the boy scouts and I can't tie that knot. John and Patsy Ramsey were tested to see if they could tie the knot and they were unable to do it. Fleet White has nothing to fear if he is innocent. There is some background waffle about all this on the internet:
"Non-Autopsy Findings Judge Carnes Decision. Complicated Knots. "JonBenet's body was bound with complicated rope slipknots and a garrotte attached to her body. (Defs.' Br. In Supp. Of Summ. J. 67 at 19; SMF P 163; PSMF P 163.)" (Carnes 2003:17). Garrote Handle from Paintbrush. "The garrote consisted of a wooden handle fashioned from the middle of a paintbrush, found in the paint tray in the boiler room. The end of a nylon cord was tied to this wooden handle and, on the other end, was a loop with a slipknot, with JonBenet's neck within the loop. (SMF PP 157-158; PSMF PP 157-158.)" (Carnes 2003:17). Missing Paintbrush End. "The end portion of the paintbrush used to construct the garrote was never found. (SMF P 159; PSMF P 159.)" (Carnes 2003:18). Cord Fibers in JBR Bed. "Further, fibers consistent with those of the cord used to make the slip knots and garrote were found on JonBenet's bed. (SMF P 168; PSMF P 168.) John Van Tassel, a forensic knot analyst and corporal in the Royal Canadian Mounted Police, gave expert advice on the knots to BPD, but it is unknown what his findings were except for those leaked in Steve Thomas's book. Cord Wrapped Twice Around Neck? Internet poster MissOtisRegrets claims that in her 1999 Good Morning America interview, Linda Arndt said the cord was wrapped twice around JBR's neck. This is not visible in most autopsy photos because the first loop is buried so deeply in her neck. According to Internet poster MissOtisRegrets (see post at 10:14 PM, 9/24/06) Picture #6 reportedly shows a picture of the neck after the first loop was removed and the second loop remained. This detail about the 2nd wrapping may have been redacted from the autopsy report. Garrotte Construction Instructions. Internet poster AntiK has posted 9 photos that include step-by-step instructions on how to construct the garrotte found around JBR's neck. An animated illustration of how to tie a rolling hitch (taut line hitch) is here and a similar illustration of how to tie a prusik knot (triple sliding hitch) is here. How the Garrote Functioned. Internet poster AnitK has provided a clear and extensive discussion on how the garrote actually functioned. How JBR Was Strangled. Internet poster Ruth Gerstenkorn has outlined her theory about how JBR was strangled. Were Knots Sophisticated? "The slipknots and the garrote are both sophisticated bondage devices designed to give control to the user. (SMF PP 161, 164; PSMF PP 161, 164.)" (Carnes 2003:17). "Evidence from these devices suggests they were made by someone with expertise using rope and cords, which cords could not be found or "sourced" within defendants' home. (SMF P 169; PSMF P 169.)" (Carnes 2003:17). Michael Kane Assessment. Special prosecutor Michael Kane (in response to Mary Keenan's statement that she supported the Carnes decision) stated: "First of all, the thing I was going to say is if Mary Keenan has reached this conclusion, she clearly has not reviewed her own file because I don’t want to get into a lot of specifics about this because of ethical reasons, but there are clearly in the police file answers to a lot of the things that the court said had never been established. I mean, I can give you-I don’t know where this came from that these were sophisticated knots. I don’t know that anybody had the opportunity to untie those knots who was an expert in knots, but the police department had somebody who fit that category and that was not the opinion of that person. These were very simple knots." AntiK Assessment. Internet poster AntiK has done extensive experiments with the garrotte and argues that "the ligature/garrote and the knot used for it’s construction is very simple. It’s basic – kindergarten. There is nothing complex or complicated about it. anyone – anyone – who claims otherwise is wrong." Delmar England Assessment. Likewise, Internet poster Delmar England, a self-reported expert in knots, has provided an in-depth analysis arguing that the garrote and wrist ties were done by someone with no familiarity with knots, hence they were part of staging. He has updated his analysis here and here. Rainsong Rebuttal of England. A thorough rebuttal of England's analysis has been put up by Internet poster Rainsong here. Could Ramseys Tie Such Knots? No. "No evidence exists that either defendant knew how to tie such knots. (SMF P 162; PSMF P 162.)" (Carnes 2003:18). Yes. Critics of the Carnes opinion note that John Ramsey had naval experience, that both he and Patsy were active sailors, and Burke Ramsey was in Scouts, all of which would have given them some expertise in knot-tying. Internet poster Tricia argues that the knot was a Prussik knot that easily could have been tied by any of the Ramseys. Where Did Cord Come From? Never Sourced to Ramsey Home. "sources for the....cord used in the crime were never located, nor sourced, to defendants' home." (Carnes 2003:10)." |
30th September 2016, 03:22 AM | #382 |
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This is an interesting extract from the Denver Post which is normally very biased against the Ramseys and it's also part of the FBI media campaign against the Ramseys. The FBI need to up their game:
"Sexual sadist intruder But many law enforcement experts, including some former Boulder police officers, now believe the killer was not a relative, but a sexual sadist who broke into the home. In the “Dateline NBC” special, “Who Killed JonBenét?” debuting at 9 p.m. Mountain Sept. 9, correspondent Josh Mankiewicz interviews Bob Whitson, a retired Boulder detective sergeant who was in the Ramsey home the day JonBenét’s body was found. “The behavior at the scene does not match up” with the Ramseys, Whitson tells Dateline. “It matches up with a sexually sadistic person and a psychopath.” |
30th September 2016, 03:36 AM | #383 |
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I don't know where some of those autopsy photos on the internet came from. They could have come from the Globe. Lou Smit did say once that it might not have been an Air Taser stun gun, which makes sense. I don't know what the actual measurements were and I doubt anybody at the Boulder coroner office will ever provide me with that information. I don't intend trying to calculate the measurements myself without seeing the actual evidence.
The matter was discussed with stun gun expert Stratbucker and Lin Wood during the Chris Wolf case: 6 Q. Listen carefully. 7 The truth is, you had, when you say 8 you didn't ascribe very much credence to the 9 theory of stun gun usage on JonBenet Ramsey, you 10 had never at that point in time laid eyes on 11 any crime scene or autopsy photograph that you 12 say as an expert you would have to see before 13 you would professionally render an opinion, true? 14 A. I don't think that is entirely true, 15 no. 16 Q. Well, what part is entirely false? 17 A. Well, the part that you couldn't, 18 from a well done autopsy narrative such as we 19 have here, implicate a stun gun from the 20 dimensions and the nature of the marks and so 21 forth as called out by the autopsy physician. 22 Q. But you don't think there is an 23 autopsy physician, sir -- taking you back to 24 your sworn testimony in North Carolina, you 25 don't think there is a pathologist or an autopsy 00073 1 physician that is capable of identifying a stun 2 gun mark; do you? 3 A. I don't say that they need to be 4 capable of identifying a stun gun mark. They 5 need to be capable of making accurate 6 measurements and then citing some menu of 7 possibilities that those accurate measurements 8 could refer to. 9 Q. Sir, do you know that, in fact, 10 there are crime scene photographs of JonBenet 11 Ramsey and autopsy photographs of JonBenet Ramsey 12 made by the Coroner's Office, Boulder County, 13 that, in fact, contain a very legible scale with 14 respect to the marks on her face and her back? 15 Are you aware of that fact? 16 A. It has been alleged that that is the 17 case. I don't know that the autopsy photographs 18 that you are referring to are official. I 19 don't know that they are official in any way. 20 Q. Well, let me suggest to you, sir, 21 that they are. 22 A. Well, you could suggest it. 23 Q. Well, don't you think that before 24 you put your professional reputation on the line 25 that you might want to look over and say, you 00074 1 know, there are some allegations that there are 2 some photographs out there that show by scale, 3 taken by the coroner, the distance apart of 4 these marks and before -- |
30th September 2016, 06:19 AM | #384 |
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Assuming facts not in evidence. I don't have any idea of how the family dealt w/ the son after the incident, other than to attempt to keep him insulated from the investigation.
You might be surprised, but there are many folks that won't even report the criminal victimization of themselves due to the shame they feel - male victims of sexual assault being the #1 demographic in that stat with female victims right behind. It's not unprecedented that a family wouldn't disclose facts related to a crime committed within the family, and it's not at all unprecedented that individuals refrain from disclosing their darkest secrets. My swag is that protecting the family and their reputation was the prime consideration. That they had to protect the son was only a by-product. |
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30th September 2016, 09:05 AM | #385 |
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As you've probably noticed in other postings, I agree that it was in intruder.
However, I myself am a little hesitant in referring to the rope found in the bedroom as solid evidence. The reason is that I've heard many conflicting reports... it was in a paper sack vs. it was in a knapsack, and that the parents thought it might belong to John Andrew because he was into camping and climbing. (I'm not completely discounting it, just that as evidence goes, its a lot less solid than other pieces.) |
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30th September 2016, 09:09 AM | #386 |
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30th September 2016, 09:12 AM | #387 |
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Hey, I'm just following up on a post by marplots. He was the one who suggested that the Ramseys willingly covered up the murder by the son because, as he said, "after the first child is dead, the second beomes twice as precious". (Although to be honest I have no idea if that was a serious argument on his part or a joke that got misinterpreted as being serious.)
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30th September 2016, 09:16 AM | #388 |
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"I'm 'willing to admit' any fact that can be shown to be evidential and certain." -- Vortigern99 "When the power of love overcomes the love of power the world will know peace." -- Jimi Hendrix |
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30th September 2016, 09:28 AM | #389 |
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30th September 2016, 10:45 AM | #390 |
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For what it is worth, here are some autopsy images with both stun gun and train tracks super imposed. http://www.forumsforjustice.org/foru...C-AUTOPSY-PICS!!
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30th September 2016, 11:05 AM | #391 |
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contacting the police or not as interpreted by Douglas and Olshaker
In Law and Disorder (pp. 177-178) John Douglas and Mark Olshaker wrote about the note, "Then they add all of the window dressing about not contacting the police or FBI, and not having the drop site surveilled, which almost no one follows. Even the kidnappers don't expect you to comply with this part."
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30th September 2016, 11:12 AM | #392 |
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30th September 2016, 11:49 AM | #393 |
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Thanks for this. I tire of the baseless speculation that Patsy or John must have been complicit in the murder or its cover-up by dint of the fact that she called the police upon finding the note. Attempting to attribute rational behaviors to persons under this kind of duress is itself unreasonable.
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"I'm 'willing to admit' any fact that can be shown to be evidential and certain." -- Vortigern99 "When the power of love overcomes the love of power the world will know peace." -- Jimi Hendrix |
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30th September 2016, 12:07 PM | #394 |
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That's actually the least suspicious aspect of the story.
Having seen the difference between actor/victim behaviors, calling LE is more consistent with being victimized than being the offender. The parents lawyering up separately is the opposite - two sets of lawyers allow for more delays and more opportunities to stymie investigators. |
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30th September 2016, 01:03 PM | #395 |
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If the Ramsey's staged this, why call the police at 5:52am? Why not take a couple more hours to get ready, and call the police at 8:00am?
The child is already dead, and if you need to protect someone, then you can take the extra time. One obvious answer is that only one of the Ramsey's staged it, and the timing of the call was dictated by whenever the other one was alerted to the missing child. The other answer is that the Ramsey's simply didn't stage it, and they just called right away. |
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What a fool believes, no wise man has the power to reason away. What seems to be, is always better than nothing. 2 prints, same midtarsal crock..., I mean break? |
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30th September 2016, 01:34 PM | #396 |
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JBR ate pineapple a few hours before she was attacked. There was no pineapple at the White' party, but there was pineapple in the Ramsey's kitchen. Therefore, JBR ate pineapple after the Ramseys got home. The Ramseys claimed that JBR fell asleep on the drive home and that JR carried her up to her room and put her in bed. Therefore, the Ramseys' account of what happened that night is established to not be true.
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30th September 2016, 01:40 PM | #397 |
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30th September 2016, 01:44 PM | #398 |
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The meaning of your statement is lost in your use of gerunds.
Having seen the difference between actor/victim behaviors, calling LE is more consistent with being victimized than being the offender.Do you mean that you personally have seen the difference between such behaviors? And that in your opinion, calling the police is consistent with the Ramsays' being victims? |
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"I'm 'willing to admit' any fact that can be shown to be evidential and certain." -- Vortigern99 "When the power of love overcomes the love of power the world will know peace." -- Jimi Hendrix |
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30th September 2016, 02:14 PM | #399 |
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Actually, it does not establish that.
The Ramseys said they didn't give her pineapple. It doesn't mean that either: 1) there was a source of pineapple earlier in the day, such as at the party (you claimed there was no pineapple at the party, but I doubt the police searched the house where the party was held in fine detail to verify that) 2) she went and got pineapple on her own and returned to bed without her parents hearing (and before she was taken by the killer) 3) It was given to her at some point by the killer Any of these could have happened without the parents knowing. Alternatively they might simply have forgotten, with no intent to deceive. The pineapple (both in her stomach and in the bowl) is a mystery, and we will probably never know where it came from. The thing is, regardless of where the pineapple came from, it doesn't really have much value as evidence. If it was a staging, why not just say "Oh, we gave her a snack" and nobody would have batted an eye. |
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30th September 2016, 02:18 PM | #400 |
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