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25th September 2016, 11:04 AM | #201 |
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IIRC, Fleet White became suspicious of John Ramsey sometime after the funeral. He realized that John probably knew the body was in the wine cellar because he yelled out before he turned the light on. Fleet had checked that room briefly when they made an earlier round of checking. Fleet didn't turn on the light and couldn't see anything in the windowless, dark room.
In return, John began pointing the finger at the Whites. The Whites have been cooperative with the police and cleared of any involvement in the death of JBR. |
25th September 2016, 01:37 PM | #202 |
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25th September 2016, 05:52 PM | #203 |
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Yes it did. And there are a couple of explanations for that:
- The killer would have had significant time in the house. Quite possible for them to have come across one of his pay stubs - It may have been someone familiar enough with the Ramseys to know about his bonus (e.g. disgruntled employee at his office) - Someone figured out that it worked out to something like 1 million mexican pesos at the time of the crime. (If the kidnapper originally thought he'd get money as a side benefit, that might have seemed like a rational amount.) The amount of money asked for is certainly a curiosity, but that in itself does not implicate the Ramseys. They were worth millions. Asking for such a small amount (and one that would raise suspicions) seems like a very strange thing to do.
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Again, its believed that the killer was someone who had a personal vandetta against the Ramseys (for some real or imagined transgression). Pretending to know the person would fit in with that.
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25th September 2016, 06:49 PM | #204 |
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This seems like a very weak/unlikely explanation. The payslip would have to have been lying around in plain view, and if so, that fact would have been picked up by the police. I can't imagine the killer rummaging around through drawers looking for payslips, when, as you say, they could simply name any amount they wanted.
Anyway, your point is simply speculation. I don't know if the police located any such payslips with $118,000 written on them (or even looked for them). Who would have access "at his office" to that sort of information? Don't know about you, but at my office no-one would have any access to another employees financial records. Even in a small company, you'd imagine that would be limited to a very small number of staff, and presumably they'd have been checked out. And besides, if they had that access to John's financial data, they'd know that he was worth more than one bonus payment of $118K. If you ask me, looking at the images/video of their house (granted not extensively), I wouldn't pick that they were worth millions. It doesn't look very luxurious to me. I don't buy the payslip or the mexican pesos explanations, the one that makes most sense to me is a subconscious slip, or an effort to make it look like the kidnapper had knowledge of the family |
25th September 2016, 06:55 PM | #205 |
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I just wanted to make a few comments / questions -
The study on DNA under fingernails, has there ever been studies involving children? They have different operating rules than adults. They may touch each other more often and/or may handle toys which other children have handled. With regard to the clothing, I would be curious to investigate the probable genetic origin of the dna on the clothing and the country of manufacture. Even if Burke did commit the crime and his father helped conceal whatever happened (the mother is dead), I would prefer to let sleeping does lie and not try to take anybody to court. I think though that Burke is stupid for suing CBS. The one item I hated was the phone call evidence. I don't know how many here are familiar with ghost voices where they try to pull it out of static from a TV / radio signal and/or just background noises. That si what it seemed to me to be. |
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25th September 2016, 07:42 PM | #206 |
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I still fail to see that anyone committing a crime in an inhabited house would spend more than the minimum amount of time necessary to complete the task. It's hard to believe that anyone spent the time rummaging through the house to find financial information and on top of that was so careful that no one ever noticed that anything had been rummaged through.
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26th September 2016, 06:23 AM | #207 |
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DNA on fingernails of children
Desert Fox,
I don't recall seeing a study on children. However, I would say that overall, there have been more studies on DNA on fingernails than on some other subjects. Upthread I linked to a BBC report on contamination involving fingernails, so we cannot discount this possibility entirely. |
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26th September 2016, 06:28 AM | #208 |
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26th September 2016, 06:35 AM | #209 |
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This site was mentioned in the JFK thread and I noticed he had written about JBR as well. So for what it's worth here it is:
http://dyingwords.net/who-really-kil...nbenet-ramsey/ I'm assuming that it is NOT the actual ransom note since the monetary figure is not spelled out? |
26th September 2016, 06:52 AM | #210 |
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Re: the $118,000.00 amount.
The letter was written to make it seem like it was directed at John. This way he could be the one to make the delivery while Patsy and Burke went to stay at a friend's house. |
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26th September 2016, 07:49 AM | #211 |
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I think that any scenario involving the family is stupid. First, there's no way both parents conspired to murder their kid, that would just not happen with this family. An accidental death, a parent snaps, disciplines, whatever. That's a possibility. But that scenario would require the other parent to agree to keep quiet and do so under all that police in media pressure. The innocent party IMO, would never be able to do that. The son, that's a bit ridiculous, first it would be pretty hard to outright murder a kid in the first place for a 10 year old, especially instantly, the parent surely would have sought medical help. Second, he was 10. The FAR easier cover-up is they were playing and she fell..... even in panic, I can't imagine they go for a murder ransom scenario; especially one that requires actual kidnapping.
Also, wasn't there unknown DNA found in the girls underwear or fingernails? |
26th September 2016, 08:01 AM | #212 |
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From what I understand, the marks were initially ignored, overlooked or considered irrelevant. It was a special investigator that was brought in (Lou Smit, a retired detective who was fairly well regarded) who first brought up the idea that they were made by a hand taser. (This was supported by at least one pathologist who was able to recreate the marks.)
As the other poster mentioned, the idea that the marks came from part of a train set came much much later. (Not even sure if the Ramseys even had the same train set by the time they thought to make the connection, or whether they did their measurements by looking at similar train sets.) |
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26th September 2016, 08:12 AM | #213 |
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That's not absolutely correct. Right from the start Fleet White demanded to be cleared, even though he was a suspect along with Chris Wolf and Santa Bill. Mark Beckner of the Boulder Police Department, and his lousy detectives, immediately agreed to Fleet's demands and the Boulder DA's office eventually complied saying it would be possible to unclear Fleet White later on.
If the Boulder Police Department and the FBI don't have the detective skills to detects the real culprits in the JonBenet Ramsey case then they should not attempt to accuse innocent people like the Ramseys, and Burke, and arrange a media campaign with CBS to present fabricated evidence. It was just the same in the Jeffrey MacDonald case gross miscarriage of justice. The Whites have always refused to answer questions. They should confess to their crimes. There is some background to this from a Boulder Daily Camera article in 2014: "Fleet and Priscilla White exonerated in death of JonBenet Ramsey — for third time Boulder police chief says Ramseys' friends never were suspects By Charlie Brennan, Camera Staff Writer POSTED: 01/23/2014 01:50:46 PM MST | UPDATED: 3 YEARS AGO Fleet White is seen in a Boulder courtroom last October during a hearing in a lawsuit seeking the release of the secret indictment of JonBenet Fleet White is seen in a Boulder courtroom last October during a hearing in a lawsuit seeking the release of the secret indictment of JonBenet Ramsey's parents. On Thursday, the Whites were exonerated of any invovlement in JonBenet's death for the third time. (Jeremy Papasso / Daily Camera) RELATED STORIES Fleet and Priscilla White ask judge to compel Boulder police to release records Fleet, Priscilla White denied official Ramsey exoneration statement by DA Released indictment names John and Patsy Ramsey on two charges in JonBenet death Judge to release indictment in JonBenet Ramsey case Camera reporter sues Boulder DA seeking release of Ramsey indictment JonBenet Ramsey grand jury voted to indict parents in 1999, but DA refused to prosecute A Boulder couple who were in John and Patsy Ramsey's home the day JonBenet Ramsey's body was discovered in the family's basement 17 years ago were officially exonerated Thursday in the notorious murder case — for the third time. The latest public exoneration of Fleet and Priscilla White came from the Boulder Police Department, and it prompted some head-scratching from one legal analyst. Denver defense attorney Dan Recht, who has followed the Ramsey saga closely, was surprised to see the Whites being offered another exoneration in the case. "I know of absolutely no precedent for anyone ever being officially exonerated three times in one case," Recht said. "I'm wondering out loud what the motivation is for the chief of police to issue a third exoneration." Recht also said, "In addition, one wonders why the Whites would want to have their names brought to national attention, once again, in association with this case." Boulder police Chief Mark Beckner released a statement Thursday noting that "innocent community members" had been the target of speculation throughout the investigation into JonBenet's murder, and had suffered as a result. Fleet and Priscilla White, he said, are among them. "The Boulder Police Department recognizes the suffering the Whites have endured as a result of the accusations made against the White family during the course of the investigation," Beckner's statement said. "The Boulder Police Department investigators have always considered the White family to only be witnesses in this case." Beckner's statement also noted that "the Boulder Police Department has never considered the White family to be suspects in the case," adding, "We wish to express our gratitude for the White family's cooperation and contributions in regard to the investigation of JonBenet's death." JonBenet Ramsey JonBenet Ramsey (Daily Camera file photo) In an emailed statement to the Daily Camera, Fleet White said, "We greatly appreciate Chief Beckner and the Boulder Police Department making this statement on behalf of our family. "Along with the recent release of the 1998-99 Boulder grand jury indictments of John and Patsy Ramsey, we are hopeful Chief Beckner's statement today will further improve the public's understanding of the investigation of JonBenet's death." Whites first cleared by police in 1997 The Whites' first public exoneration came when the case was still being feverishly worked by numerous department detectives as well as outside experts tapped by the Boulder County District Attorney's Office, and was in the constant glare of both national and international media attention. In April 1997, then-Boulder police Chief Tom Koby said in a prepared statement: "They (the Whites) are considered key witnesses. The Boulder Police Department appreciates the full cooperation they have received from the Whites since the beginning of their investigation. I feel this response is necessary due to the inaccurate portrayal of Mr. and Mrs. White in certain media publications." Additionally, the Whites also were cleared in September 2008 by then-District Attorney Mary Lacy. In a letter to the Whites she authored Sept. 12, 2008, Lacy stated, "I am writing to reaffirm that you are not suspects in the murder of JonBenet Ramsey. "My office has been solely responsible for this case since December 2002," Lacy's letter added. "Since that date, I am not aware of any person associated with this office making any comment referring to any member of the Fleet White family as a suspect in this murder or otherwise suggesting any change to the conclusion in Chief Koby's statement that you are only key witnesses." Beckner did not return calls Thursday seeking comment on the latest exoneration. Boulder District Attorney Stan Garnett said Thursday, "The Boulder police announced that the Whites were not suspects in April of 1997. "As as far as I'm concerned, nothing has changed since then with regard to the Whites as suspects. I don't think they are suspects, and I know the police department doesn't think they are suspects." Fleet and Prescilla White, as photographed in 2008 after receiving a letter from then-District Attorney Mary Lacy saying they were never suspects in Fleet and Prescilla White, as photographed in 2008 after receiving a letter from then-District Attorney Mary Lacy saying they were never suspects in JonBenet Ramsey's death. (Helen H. Richardson / The Denver Post) JonBenet was found beaten and strangled in the family's basement Dec. 26, 1996, about eight hours after Patsy Ramsey called 911 to report the child missing and that she had discovered a ransom note demanding $118,000 for the 6-year-old's safe return. Fleet White was with John Ramsey when JonBenet's father found the girl's body in a little-used room of the family's basement, while a lone detective, Patsy Ramsey and other visitors remained upstairs. The Ramseys had summoned the Whites — along with another couple and the minister from their church — to their home for support, shortly after calling 911. A grand jury heard evidence in the case for 13 months, and disbanded in October 1999, with no further action by the Boulder County District Attorney's office. The Camera reported in a Jan. 27, 2013, exclusive that the grand jury actually had voted to indict both John and Patsy Ramsey, but that then-District Attorney Alex Hunter refused to prosecute the case, believing he lacked the evidence needed to prove guilt beyond a reasonable doubt. On Oct. 25, those indictments were made public by a judge's order, showing that each parent had been indicted on charges of felony child abuse resulting in death and accessory to a crime. The statute of limitations on those charges expired after three years, and Patsy Ramsey succumbed to cancer in June 2006. Allegation in 2000 put Whites in spotlight The White family did come in for more public scrutiny than some Ramsey associates during the star-crossed investigation. In his statement, Becker noted that, in 2000, "The police department did investigate allegations made by a California woman to District Attorney Alex Hunter, as reported in the press, that were intended to cast suspicion on the White family. The department found no evidence to support the unfounded allegations. "There has never been any evidence to link the White family to the JonBenet Ramsey homicide." The Camera in February 2000 reported that a 38-year-old woman had told Hunter that, when she was young, she had been ritually and sexually abused in a manner similar to the way JonBenet Ramsey died. Her claims drew attention because she said she knew John and Patsy Ramsey through Fleet White. Other media also published reports about the unidentified California woman after publication of the Camera`s initial article. But in May 2000, Boulder police said they found no connection between the Ramsey case and the California woman's allegations of having been victimized in a child-sex ring. And in saying so, Beckner at that time said the Whites were not under any suspicion in the case, commenting, "We have never had evidence to support such an allegation." In August 2000, the Whites filed a criminal libel complaint against the Camera for reporting the woman's claims. Because of Hunter's status as a potential witness in such a case, then-Chief Judge Roxanne Bailin appointed a special prosecutor from Pueblo County. In October of that same year, Bailin terminated the criminal libel investigation. Then, in June 2001, a state appeals court dismissed the Whites' request to reconsider Bailin's decision to end the criminal libel investigation. Contact Camera Staff Writer Charlie Brennan at 303-473-1327, brennanc@dailycamera.com or twitter.com/chasbrennan. |
26th September 2016, 08:19 AM | #214 |
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Not sure about you, but in my house I don't necessarily make an effort to hide things like paystubs, or bills.
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Could have also been an accidental disclosure.
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(Keeping in mind that I don't have any proof that either explanation is valid, just that they make as much sense as any "inside theory" explanations.)
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26th September 2016, 08:26 AM | #215 |
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The Liverpool UK crime writer Keith Andrews, who I admit is not exactly famous, had an interesting 'Fleet White did it' theory on the internet for several years. It vanished for several years and then came back again. It now seems to have vanished again but it may still be on the internet somewhere. This is part of it:
KEITH ANDREWS--Criminologist: "I have analysed the 'ransom note' left at the Ramsey's home by the killer, and noted several strong matches regarding grammar, phrasing and style between the note and the wording of Fleet White's letter of January 16, 1998 to the Daily Camera. The phrase:'At this time' immediately caught my eye. The phrase 'At this time' starts the third sentence of the ransom note:'At this time we have your daughter in our possession.' I do not believe Fleet White acted alone. I am certain that his wife Priscilla aided and abetted him." |
26th September 2016, 08:39 AM | #216 |
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First of all, they would not have been searching an occupied house... they would have been searching a house that was empty, while the family was at the party.
Doing so would provide minimal risk.
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Once again... this case was decades ago. At the time, I doubt any criminal was particularly concerned about 'touch DNA'. As for the fingerprints... a pair of gloves would have sufficed.
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Doing something that's convenient (such as leaving the note on the back staircase) doesn't mean he wasn't unhurried. He had one ransom note. He could have left it on either set of stairs. He had to pick one. Why not pick the one that was closest to the door he might have left from or used on his way to get JonBenet? I somehow get the feeling that had he left it on the other staircase, you would be howling about how it shows "staging because obviously they put it on the main staircase to make it look like a home invasion". |
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26th September 2016, 08:53 AM | #217 |
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26th September 2016, 08:54 AM | #218 |
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That's quite an amazing big of arrogance you're exhibiting there.
Keep in mind that many of the posters here are not necessarily making up their own theories, but are reflecting comments made by people who are associated with law enforcement. Lou Smit was a well regarded retired detective investigating the crime who thought it was an intruder. John Douglas was a former FBI profiler with years of experience dealing with serial killers and other murderers, who similarly discounts the idea of it being an inside job. They are experienced (probably a lot more experienced at dealing with crimes like the JonBenet murder than you), yet neither of them think it was an inside job. |
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26th September 2016, 09:06 AM | #219 |
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I hate to respond to my own post, but I think its something that bears repeating.
I asked that several days ago. I recognize that people get busy, and are under no obligation to respond to any specific post. But the fact that so many "inside jobbers" have continued to post in this thread but nobody has touched this subject is rather revealing. People who think that one of the Ramseys did it are looking more and more like 9/11 conspiracy theorists. Just watch (loose change/the CBS documentary) , it explains everything! It had to be an inside job. After all, (fires don't cause buildings to collapse/ransom notes don't get left in the same house as the body). Plus you have all the other strange aspects of the case, like (the fire chief saying "pull it"/the strange ransom note). So once again, "Inside Jobbers"... tell us what happened during the murder of JonBenet. Give us your complete story, not just little snippets. (Oh it must have been one of the Ramseys because X.) But a complete accounting. Lets see how rational your "inside theory" is. Because if you can't come up with a believable story about an inside job (one that doesn't involve bizarre leaps of logic) then the "inside job" theory must be discarded in favor of one that makes more sense (the intruder theory). |
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26th September 2016, 09:14 AM | #220 |
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Assuming it was an intruder...
It seems unlikely that this was this intruder's first and last fling into such activity. Were there other similar crimes in the area before or after? Regarding the unknown DNA, it also seems unlikely that 3 people could maintain radio silence about the crime for very long. |
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26th September 2016, 10:25 AM | #221 |
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DNA from the blood droplet, as source
LTC8K6,
I am on my lunch break, so this will have to be quick. I posted a link to a news story, possibly from CBS, upthread that mentioned a similar case 9 months later. About the DNA on JonBenet's underwear, from what I can gather this had the profile of an unknown male but not JonBenet (it would be nice to have the laboratory reports or some other reliable source of information). One has to be careful because of the exceptional case*, but in general when you find one DNA profile from a blood droplet, it means that the blood came from the person who is linked to that DNA profile. A different way to frame this is to say that this DNA is probably from the blood (it is source DNA), and source DNA is generally better evidence than sub-source DNA, DNA that is not associated with a particular body fluid or tissue. I don't have the best possible citation about this "hierarchy of propositions" at the moment, but this abstract would be a good place to start. *details available upon request. |
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26th September 2016, 10:59 AM | #222 |
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A scenario involving an intruder who arrived before the Ramseys returned home requires that:
1) the intruder knew that the Ramseys were just away for the evening and hadn't left on vacation; 2) the intruder knew approximately what time the Ramseys would return home; 3) the intruder knew of a place in the house where there was no chance that any of the Ramseys would go that evening; 4) the intruder's hiding place, though in a place where the Ramseys were guaranteed not to go that evening, permitted him to monitor what was going on so that he knew when it was safe to come out of hiding.
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1) the Ramsey's had young children. Most people do not want their children to get ahold of their financial information; 2) the Ramsey's children had friends. Most people do not want their childrens' friends snooping through their pay stubs, bank statements, and bills; 3) the Ramseys had a housekeeper and undoubtedly used other domestic help (e.g., a gardener). Most people, especially affluent ones, do not want people doing work on their homes to know anything about their finances nor do they want their help to have access to the personal information contained in pay stubs and bank statements; 4) the Ramseys had hosted a party 2 days previously. People don't ordinarily leave bills and bank statements lying around when they're hosting a party. 5) affluent people tend to be meticulous about keeping track of financial information because their income taxes are complicated.
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26th September 2016, 11:06 AM | #223 |
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Presumably you meant to say "not any of the Ramseys" rather than "not JonBenet". The DNA also didn't match any of their friends' DNA.
My understanding is that the DNA was mixed in with JB's blood, but that it hasn't been established that it was from someone else's blood, only that it came from some sort of fluid that came from someone else. |
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26th September 2016, 11:46 AM | #224 |
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1) The Ramseys were very social people and were fairly well known in the community. Many people would have known their plans
2) No, he wouldn't. He knew they had children and would be back at some time. That's all he needed. (For comparison, the BTK killer waited in people's homes too, even though he didn't know exactly when they'd be home.) 3) Plenty of rooms in the basement. And even if an intruder could never be 100% sure of a perfect hiding spot, he still had a goal to achieve; a hiding spot with a small chance of risk would be superior to not achieving that goal 4) Not too difficult... wait until midnight, sneak out... see if there are lights on. If not, sneak further into the house
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Bank statements probably weren't sitting on the living room table for anyone to peruse. They would be in an office or bedroom. Not places that people attending a party would wander to.
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Once you have that compulsion, you do things that a non-murder might consider risky because otherwise you won't achieve your goal.
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At no point will you ever take me up on my challenge to give a complete story of what happened that night/day. You will continue to harp on tiny little points, and expose broad claims ("It was an inside job!"), but you will fail to show how such an inside job could have actually been pulled off.. |
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26th September 2016, 12:19 PM | #225 |
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How many? Which ones? At that point, I had worked in Boulder for 13 years, and I had never even heard of the Ramseys much less knew what their Christmas plans were.
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What you've described is a scenario in which someone broke into a house, spent considerable time rummaging through the house, wrote a letter using a pen and notepad from that house and left both the pen and notepad in the house, left the letter in an unconventional location, went into a bedroom and carried off JBR, bashed her on the head, carried her down to the basement, decided to molest her with a paintbrush, after waiting at least 45 minutes strangled her, and eventually left. All without leaving any trace that anyone else was ever in the house, except perhaps a couple of drops of perspiration or saliva on her underpants. The intruder would either have to be incredibly lucky to have pulled this off or been a very experienced criminal. There were no remotely similar crimes before or after. |
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26th September 2016, 12:25 PM | #226 |
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I am most worried about people who are suppose to be professionals in law enforcement passing off what I consider voodoo science with regard to voice recordings
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=izUi0zZFZ5M It sounds a lot like voice recordings of ghosts by ghost hunters |
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26th September 2016, 12:28 PM | #227 |
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That the Whites had to be publically defined as non-suspects is explained in your wall of text here:
and here: So you see, as speculation that one or both of the Fleets were involved repeatedly becomes rampant, the public needs to be reminded that they were investigated and cleared. All of this: Was because they were trying to get the grand jury indictments released. |
26th September 2016, 12:44 PM | #228 |
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I will tell you what the police thought in the beginning. They theorized that it was accidental. That JonBenet had wet the bed (urine was in the bed, clothes on the bathroom floor, nighttime huggies hanging out of cabinet) and that Patsy had pushed her or hit her and she fell against something in the bathroom cracking her head. She appeared dead (physicians have said she probably had shallow breathing and that she could very well have been perceived as dead) and Patsy flipped out over killing her daughter. The rest was staged to point away from the Ramseys. It has been nearly confirmed there was sexual abuse going on (which I have always waivered on until a recent post here: http://solvingjonbenet.blogspot.com/...use-guest.html) which would explain why the digital and/or paintbrush penetration was performed, to mask the prior abuse.
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26th September 2016, 12:46 PM | #229 |
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26th September 2016, 01:07 PM | #230 |
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As I've pointed out before... the killings were thought to be a personal cause... someone who had some sort of reason (real or imagined) to specifically target the Ramseys. He would have had at least some knowledge of the family.
Claiming you had no knowledge of them is irrelevant.
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Already explained.
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Whomever the murderer of JonBenet is, they did not have a financial motive. It was not a random thing. He had both a desire to harm the Ramseys and a rather sick desire to torture JonBenet. Simply stabbing her and running away would not have achieved that goal.
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I knew how much my dad made. Granted, I was a few years older than the 2 Ramsey kids. I doubt my parents were that concerned.
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Which is more than what you've provided, which is a vague "Inside Job" claim, without any sort of ability to put forward a reasonable scenario about how such a job could have come about.
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Of course luck might have had something to do with it... incompetent police procedures early on (allowing non-police free range in the house) would have corrupted whatever evidence did exist, and a mistaken focus on the Ramseys would have meant that the search for other suspects would be minimized. |
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26th September 2016, 01:13 PM | #231 |
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If the crime was a personal cause, I would expect there to be clues in the "ransom note"
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26th September 2016, 01:25 PM | #232 |
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Yes, JonBenet wet the bed. She had been doing it for a long time. (Apparently it was a trait that ran in John's family.)
Patsy was used to dealing with it. So for Patsy to flip out this time seems a little strange. "OK you've wet the bed 100 times this year. But now that its the 101st I'm going to push you".
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Penetration by the paintbrush or finger would be consistent with a male intruder with a certain curiosity/compulsion regarding the female body.
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And that's more than any of the "inside jobbers" have ever done, who seem to be unable to put together any sort of coherent narrative about how the events might have occurred. http://www.internationalskeptics.com...5&postcount=85 As I pointed out before... this was likely some sort of personal cause... someone with a grudge against the Ramseys (either real or imagined), as well as a dash of psychopath thrown in. He wanted to both hurt the Ramseys, and satisfy certain base urges (living out certain fantasies about killing/torturing). Nobody could ever know for sure what exactly was going through his mind, but we certainly have seen plenty of other killers with the same mentality. (And it certainly makes more sense than the mother who dotes on her daughter, yet decides to strangle her to death rather than get medical treatment.) |
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26th September 2016, 01:52 PM | #233 |
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26th September 2016, 02:11 PM | #234 |
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You never know what sets someone off. To say it happened a million times before and this reaction was different is useless.
The theory was that John staged the scene and Patsy wrote the note. There's quite a list of people at that linked article who say it did: John McCann, MD - Clinical Professor of Medicine, Department of Pediatrics, UC Davis, acknowledged to be the foremost expert on child sexual abuse in the country; David Jones, MD - Professor of Preventive Medicine and Biometrics, UC Boulder; Robert Kirschner, MD - University of Chicago Department of Pathology; James Monteleone, MD - Professor of Pediatrics at St Louis University School of Medicine and Director of Child Protection at Cardinal Glennon Children's Hospital; Ronald Wright, MD - former Medical Examiner, Cook County, Illinois; and Virginia Rau, MD - Miami-Dade County Medical Examiner. I will also add, although anecdotal, that I originally did not believe there was indication of chronic abuse. I was talking to my daughter (a CRNP) and I was saying she had been to the pediatrician a lot for vaginitis. My daughter's head whipped around and she asked, "Was she being abused?" I said I didn't think so, and she said, "They taught us in pediatrics that was a number one sign of abuse. Girls do not get reoccurring vaginitis for no reason." Then why did s/he write a 3-page ransom note when the child was already dead? How did s/he silence JBR where she was taken, in the bedroom? Why did s/he place an extra nightgown next to the child (which just happened to be JBR's favorite one)? Why did s/he come with no tools for the job. The ransom note was written on Patsy's notepad, with Patsy's pen and the garrote was made from Patsy's paintbrush. |
26th September 2016, 02:14 PM | #235 |
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Then the Ramseys were poor judges of character? They had someone who was close enough to them to know what their Christmas and vacation plans were who wanted their daughter to die a slow, painful death?
If the killer knew the Ramsey's plans, why did he choose a night when they were getting home late and getting up early?
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So far you haven't posted any affirmative evidence, only that your theory can't be disproven by what we know. Which means that it's not impossible that you are correct. It's also not impossible that you are wrong. |
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26th September 2016, 02:15 PM | #236 |
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And which movies would they have been for?
The only video I've seen shows them having posters for Officer and a Gentleman (a romantic drama) and Death on the Nile (based on an Agatha Cristie novel). Both of those movies are significantly different than the type of action movies that contains the lines used in the ransom notes. Maybe if they had posters for Dirty Harry or Speed it might be relevant, but to my knowledge there were no posters for those movies in their house. |
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26th September 2016, 02:16 PM | #237 |
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Originally Posted by segnosaur
Something goes wrong and you hit her over the head and you don't get the heck out of dodge? There was AT LEAST 45 minutes between the head injury and the strangulation, possibly up to 2 hours. He did not bring the note with him, as it came from Patsy's note pad, written by Patsy's pen, per the FBI. |
26th September 2016, 02:35 PM | #238 |
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26th September 2016, 02:52 PM | #239 |
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How does that follow?
I watch over a hundred movies a year. I'm certainly a "movie buff". But there are genres (such as slasher movies) that I don't go anywhere near. Being a "movie buff" does not mean that you watch each and every movie that ever comes out. The movie posters show they like movies for people with more mature tastes. The phrases in the note were from more straight-up action movies that appeal to a younger/male demographic. |
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26th September 2016, 03:02 PM | #240 |
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The blow would not have immediately killed her, they were in a part of the house that provided significant privacy, and the killer still had a desire to torture/inflict suffering. Why would he want to "get the heck out of dodge"?
You seem to be looking at this as if the killing were the only goal. It wasn't. Satisfying his twisted desires was.
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ETA: I certainly don't deny that there could have been significant time between the head blow and the strangulation. Just not sure how reliable the '45 minutes-2 hours' is.
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