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10th October 2016, 05:22 PM | #1 |
Penultimate Amazing
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Gable Tostee
At last details emerge
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/ar...ectid=11726687 An explosive audio recording played in court that captured Warriena Wright's final hours in Gable Tostee's Gold Coast apartment has revealed the New Zealander was drunk, at times incomprehensible and repeatedly violent towards the man charged with her murder. "I've met some weird people on Tinder," the 30-year-old murder accused is heard to say, as the drunk Wright apparently swings in and out of violent episodes towards him. And At one point, she accuses him of stealing her phone. "Where's my ******* ****? My ******* data," she says. Asked what it looks like, she yells, "it looks like a ******* iPhone". Wright insists on leaving, but Tostee tries to stop her. "I didn't say you have to leave, I just said stop beating me up," he said. She asks him again where her things are. "I will ******* destroy your jaw. It's not ******* funny," she says. "Look, that's your stuff right there," he replies. "Get it for me. Get it for me. Get it for me," she yells. "I'm calling the police, get it for me. Get it for me now. Then he locks her on the balcony, she tries to climb down, and falls. How is this anything like murder when he figures a way to get her sober rather than have her cause him unknowable grief with the police? And why would a jury be entitled to determine it? |
10th October 2016, 07:02 PM | #2 |
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Well, he did hold her against her will. And he locked her on the balcony. Sounds like kidnapping to me.
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10th October 2016, 07:10 PM | #3 |
Penultimate Amazing
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I am trying to see it in the context of woman accuses man of theft and other things to police, versus a pragmatic decision to give her "safe" time out. Men are vulnerable when women cause trouble and vice versa. Keeping the police at bay is a good option. This is clearly not murder so why are the police pulling this stunt? It is something quite different, and we can all form an opinion as the case unfolds, but with the recording we have an excellent resource for plying our wisdom.
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10th October 2016, 07:15 PM | #4 |
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Seems like exactly the sort of thing that you'd want a jury to decide.
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10th October 2016, 07:19 PM | #5 |
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I have met Tim at TAM. He is of sufficient height to piss on your leg. - Doubt 10/7/2005 - I'll miss Tim. Aristotle taught that the brain exists merely to cool the blood and is not involved in the process of thinking. This is true only of certain persons. - Will Cuppy |
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10th October 2016, 07:27 PM | #6 |
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10th October 2016, 07:29 PM | #7 |
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What gives any man the right to put an adult woman in "time out"? Would it make any difference to you if he locked her in a closet "for her own good" rather than on a balcony?
IMHO, holding a woman against her will is not likely to be considered a good option.
Would she have attempted to escape from the locked balcony if she was not, in fact, locked on the balcony against her will? Would she have fallen to her death if he had not locked her on the balcony against her will? Is it unreasonable or even unforeseeable for a person, who is being held against their will, to attempt to escape?
I do not know if it rises to 1st degree murder, but it does not seem unreasonable to me to hold him responsible. |
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I have met Tim at TAM. He is of sufficient height to piss on your leg. - Doubt 10/7/2005 - I'll miss Tim. Aristotle taught that the brain exists merely to cool the blood and is not involved in the process of thinking. This is true only of certain persons. - Will Cuppy |
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10th October 2016, 07:43 PM | #8 |
Penultimate Amazing
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Clearly, with drunk and violent people of either gender a chaotic outcome is likely. For men, the challenge is to be sure they would not lock a woman outside to sober up as an option before leaping to conclusions. This woman was violent and drunk remember, and falling or leaping from balconies is an incredibly rare event. It is meant to be difficult.
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10th October 2016, 07:44 PM | #9 |
Penultimate Amazing
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Locking her up so she can't leave? In part so she doesn't report him to the police? It sure sounds like kidnapping to me. And locking a crazy drunk on a balcony? How stupid and dangerous; she could tumble off or get it in her head to climb down: which she did, right?
A jury certainly should hear the details and decide. |
10th October 2016, 08:10 PM | #10 |
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10th October 2016, 08:58 PM | #11 |
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He just should have let her go. There was no reason for him to lock her out on the balcony as opposed to the front door. Unlawful detention vs a complaint to police that gets dismissed as soon as he shows them his recording. Based solely on this single piece of evidence, I think he will be found not guilty of murder, but hopefully he has also been charged also with unlawful detention or depridation of liberty.
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10th October 2016, 09:10 PM | #12 |
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This headline suggests a jury.
Gable Tostee murder trial: Jury hears last chilling moments of Warriena Wright’s life http://www.perthnow.com.au/news/nati...7bdfca468a6308
Quote:
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2016-10-1...-heard/7921418 |
10th October 2016, 09:52 PM | #13 |
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I see it as fairly likely for a very drunk person- they do all sorts of dangerous, not well thought out actions. Enogh to sustain video tv shows and YouTube. Most people, I think, would consider a balcony as very risky in this light. Equivalent to locking a little kid unsupervised in the same place.
Sorry but I have no sympathy for the accused. He locked her to prevent her from leaving and filing a place report against him. She died trying to escape what was very much a kidnapping. He is in big trouble, and I think he should be if the reports are correct. |
10th October 2016, 10:49 PM | #14 |
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10th October 2016, 11:27 PM | #15 |
Penultimate Amazing
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A charge of murder never looks good.
It reminds me of Oscar Pistorius. Drink replaces paranoia and society can hate forever. If he held her against her will that is kidnapping, and the charge should be solely that, not murder. Let's see if this is a first criminal offence, it will all come out no doubt. Unfortunately she looks like TROUBLE. That should also become apparent either way. |
10th October 2016, 11:47 PM | #16 |
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...of course not. I must add that too my "to do list": don't murder anyone today.
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10th October 2016, 11:52 PM | #17 |
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His previous record is well documented. As is his Christian name, which you have spelled incorrectly in the thread title.
Tostee served approx 6 months last year for a drunken high speed police chase, just 3 weeks before the balcony incident. This article is about his release. http://www.wsfm.com.au/newsroom/accu...ed-from-prison
Quote:
It's only 2 years old. I assume it's inadmissible and suppressed. Audio recordings at below link. Also a twitter feed from court reporters today. http://www.adelaidenow.com.au/news/n...0ec0a2ac614e44 ETA. I see his name spelled both ways in news articles. I take back my comment for now. The defendant changed his name by deed poll last year to Eric Thomas. So there's 3. |
11th October 2016, 12:03 AM | #18 |
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Do they have the equivalent of Felony Murder statutes in that jurisdiction. Because if someone dies in the course of a kidnapping here (a felony which qualifies for felony murder consideration in most states, I think), then murder could very easily be on the table. It doesn't even have to be the victim, or a bystander. It can even be one of the perps (if there's more than one). |
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11th October 2016, 12:10 AM | #19 |
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11th October 2016, 12:27 AM | #20 |
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Shiner - you're obviously keeping up with this case: is Tostee charged with alternate crimes, eg manslaughter &/or kidnapping, or have the cops just gone for broke hoping the murder sticks?
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11th October 2016, 12:34 AM | #21 |
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He's a *********** murderer and going down. Samson wrong yet again.
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11th October 2016, 12:41 AM | #22 |
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It comes under the general definition of murder, kidnapping is an unlawful purpose and the question is whether a judge/jury considers locking a drunk person out on a balcony reasonably likely to endanger their life.
They could have easily charged him with manslaughter or reckless conduct endangering life, so I imagine they have more evidence up their sleeves. |
11th October 2016, 12:46 AM | #23 |
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11th October 2016, 12:48 AM | #24 |
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11th October 2016, 12:49 AM | #25 |
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11th October 2016, 12:51 AM | #26 |
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11th October 2016, 01:00 AM | #27 |
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There are parallels between many cases. Here I would contend neither Pistorius nor Tostee started the day expecting to face murder charges and in both cases there are sound reasons that actions they took were not calculated to result in the deaths of the women they spent the night with.
Simply calling them both murderers lacks a little finesse. But that's enough from me on Pistorius. |
11th October 2016, 01:11 AM | #28 |
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My understanding is that he's only been charged with murder.
The prosecutors and defense agreed to go sraight to trial last October when he was first charged over the night in question.
Quote:
I'm not sure if there are options for a reduction in severity of charge to be pled. I've followed the story since it happened, and really can't see murder being proven. There doesn't seem to be much in the way of intent. I won't be unhappy to be wrong though. He is a douche. As shown by his active social media prescence before, and after the death of Ms Wright. |
11th October 2016, 01:13 AM | #29 |
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dup
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11th October 2016, 01:14 AM | #30 |
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See, that's the thing about felony murder; "a legal doctrine in some common law jurisdictions that broadens the crime of murder: when an offender kills (regardless of intent to kill) in the commission of a dangerous or enumerated crime (called a felony in some jurisdictions), he/she is guilty of murder." It isn't always necessary to have been the offender who kills. It might also be anyone else who was a participant in the crime. Or none of them. I've read of at least one case where a cop shot and killed one of the participants in an armed robbery as they were trying to get away, and the other was charged with felony murder. ================================ Apparently in Australia it is called "constructive murder, and seems very similar; So it appears possible that if Tostee is being charged with a crime which could get him 25 years (kidnapping?) then a constructive murder charge might possibly go with it. |
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11th October 2016, 01:15 AM | #31 |
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Based only on what you quoted and described I would decide wrongful death or involuntary homicide ETA felony murder sound right. The man was sober and should not have imprisonned somebody drunk in a situation where the person could easily and did imperil themselves.
The correct way to handle the situation would have been , leave the person, call the police outside, let the police handle everything. |
11th October 2016, 01:15 AM | #32 |
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He had the intent to force her out on to the balcony in an aggressive, violent way, at the very least. And I will contend he caused her to fear for her life. She attempted to escape that threat. That's enough. Murder.
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11th October 2016, 01:18 AM | #33 |
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Samson just out of curiosity what do you do in life ? This is the third or fourth thread I see you defending people's action when they are accused.
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11th October 2016, 01:18 AM | #34 |
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11th October 2016, 01:21 AM | #35 |
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11th October 2016, 01:23 AM | #36 |
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Okay. I didn't really take the time to dig down to that level of detail. There's apparently forty six states in the U.S. with felony murder statutes of some sort, but even with that they are not all the same. What I was trying to determine was if a similar concept was current in Australia. It seems that it is, dependent on jurisdiction. |
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11th October 2016, 01:26 AM | #37 |
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And that would null and void my suppositions .....
I think this is the relevant link. I think it's covered under section 1(b) http://www.austlii.edu.au/au/legis/q...9994/s302.html |
11th October 2016, 01:29 AM | #38 |
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11th October 2016, 01:31 AM | #39 |
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11th October 2016, 01:39 AM | #40 |
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I run a business like most New Zealanders one way or other. I got interested when I realised there is endemic corruption in the NZ police, the way they prosecute murders and get the wrong answer. Thomas, Tamihere, Pora, Bain, Lundy, MacDonald. Maybe Watson, all in a country of a few million.
Total compensation to that lot, 3 million, total jail wrongly served, 82 years and counting. Of course it doesn't really matter, a kind of reverse lotto win. It seems to matter to them and their families though. This guy Tostee is accused of murder which is absurd. It looks like a prize cockup to me. There must be a range of charges they could throw the book at him for, instead he has to walk. |
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