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2nd July 2020, 03:51 AM | #241 |
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they knew what they were doing
I would not use the word mistakes; "improprieties" is closer. The problem with saying "perhaps" Mr. Dassey's confession was contaminated, or that the authorities made mistakes is that it minimizes the severity of what they did. Along these same lines, I note that no one took up my challenge regarding negative controls, namely to set forth standards that would apply not just to this case, but to all cases involving DNA profiling.
I would like to see both Mr. Avery and Mr. Dassey retried but only after all of the tainted evidence is excluded. IMO this would include Mr. Dassey's statements during and directly after his interrogation. It would also include anything gathered* by Manitowoc. If that evidence is used outside of court for the purposes of discussion, the people discussing it should explain what weight it deserves. MOO. *EDT, by gathered I mean anything found or identified. |
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2nd July 2020, 04:04 AM | #242 |
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Brendan's statements
In a 2007 letter to Jerry Buying, Dr. Lawrence T. White concluded, "Brendan's statements were often inconsistent, ambivalent, and self-contradictory. In sum there are many reasons to question the trustworthiness and voluntariness of Bredan Dassey's so-called 'confession.'"
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2nd July 2020, 04:09 AM | #243 |
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2nd July 2020, 04:14 AM | #244 |
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The evidence gathered in this case was gathered by CCSO not MTSO. Even if you did omit the mountain of incriminating forensic evidence. A compelling circumstantial case can still be constructed.
The first bit of circumstantial evidence is Avery admitting over the phone he had a bonfire that night. Contradicting all his early police statements. The second bit of circumstantial evidence is Avery calling the victim twice before she died on *67 and once after she died without the *67. The prosecution explanation is simple. Avery wanted to lure Teresa to his trailer. Having an IQ of just 70 Avery thought that *67 would also hide his number from cell phone company's records. After she has died he calls her again without *67 trying to make it appear he is wondering where she is. I have yet to hear an innocent explanation for this behaviour. The third bit of circumstantial evidence is Avery seen having a bonfire for at least 7 hours. No need to mention the prosecution narrative for that one. What is the innocent explanation? I have never heard one. The fourth bit of circumstantial evidence is Avery was seen ALONE by this bonfire at 11:30pm at night. The fifth bit of circumstantial evidence is that the only Bonfire seen that night that could have cremated a body was Steven Avery's bonfire. Where else could Teresa have been cremated? The sixth bit of circumstantial evidence is that the Mini Van Teresa photographed for an Auto trader ad, was never placed on display like all the other cars she had photographed in the past. Despite Steven Avery telling Earl that Teresa had done her work and left. The prosecution explanation is simple. Avery knew there would be no Auto trader advert because he has killed the photographer. Thus wont bother putting it on display with the rest of the cars on sale advertised in Autotrader. The seventh bit of circumstantial evidence is that Brendan knew Teresa had no tattoos, despite being told the contrary, Brendan was adamant he never remembers seeing any Tattoos. Thus he has seen Teresa naked. Why has Brendan seen Teresa naked? No need to mention the prosecution narrative. What is the truther explanation? The eight bit of circumstantial evidence is the RAV4 being found near the car crusher but not crushed. This shows the suspect intended to crush it but something prevented him from doing so. Lo and behold, Steven Avery did not have a set of keys to start the crusher. Only Earl and Allan did. The ninth bit of circumstantial evidence is Steven Avery accusing the police of framing him before anyone else knew a crime had even been committed. Steven Avery accused MPD of framing him during a missing persons investigation. Thus he knows a crime has been committed against Teresa. How did he know? He done it. The tenth bit of circumstantial evidence is Brendan Dassey crying to himself uncontrollably and losing 40 pounds in weight in the weeks after the murder. I could go on. Furthermore Brendan was days away from agreeing to a 15 year plea bargain until his mother and grandfather made him deny all the allegations. If they were both to be re-trialed it wouldn't surprise me if Brendan takes a plea and testifies against Steven. |
2nd July 2020, 04:17 AM | #245 |
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DNA degradation; negative controls
The word "compromised" is so vague as to be useless. One curiousity that has been discussed here more than once is why the bullet profile was essentially complete.
I explained what negative controls were in comment #219. In the next comment I wrote, "If one performs a control experiment and ignores the result, then why perform it? A previous comment of mine should be consulted for what usually happens when a negative control gives a positive result. If you wish to propose a different standard by which the results of all negative control reactions should be assessed, then feel free. Until that new standard is accepted, my point stands." By "all" I mean every case in which there is DNA profiling. No one has answered my question or offered a suggestion yet. |
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2nd July 2020, 04:23 AM | #246 |
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2nd July 2020, 07:29 AM | #247 |
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I am well aware that the burden of proof was not on the defense at trial. If you believe that Avery is innocent then this burden of proof is on you however.
Like others have already said, we can go on and on about the trial for as long as we want, it won't change anything. Some of us are interested in the facts of the matter. We can cast doubt on some of the evidence, but if we're being honest we should not then doubt ALL of the evidence. The inconvenient truth for those who think he is innocent is that there is a whole lot of physical and circumstantial evidence against him. What is also missing is anything exculpatory, nothing in the evidence excludes Avery, at least not that we've seen yet. If he's going to get out of prison for the second time, you're going to have to prove that. It's the reason he was released after his first conviction after all. |
2nd July 2020, 07:36 AM | #248 |
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I would be fine with a re-trial as well. I can only speculate though that it would go much better for Dassey than it would for Avery. It's also hard to predict what evidence would be allowed and what would not be allowed.
Find something that excludes Avery though and I think you've got a winner. |
2nd July 2020, 06:03 PM | #249 |
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putative control question concerning a tattoo
For what Brendan actually said about the tattoo, start at 2:40 of this video. TL/DW: At one point Brendan in effect says that he does not remember a tattoo, but then he says "I don't know what it [the tattoo] was."
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3rd July 2020, 01:32 AM | #250 |
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"FASSBENDER: did she have any scars, marks', tattoos, stuff like that, that you can remember?
BRENDAN: I don’t remember any tattoos. " ------------------------------- "FASSBENDER: OK. (pause) We know that Teresa had a tattoo on her stomach, do you remember that? BRENDAN: (shakes head “no”) uh uh" So much for telling the police what they wanted to hear. |
3rd July 2020, 04:09 AM | #251 |
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Heh Essexman I don't get this.
Are you finding cogent evidence in that exchange? What I am grappling with is the bonfire and burning of the body. Sure Steve was not a congressman but neither did he hava a 70 IQ, that was ascribed to the more leisurely working of Brendan Dassey's mind. I am unclear what the cutoff number is useful to explain inviting someone to your place, with external and comprehensive detail of their itinerary, then shooting them, burning their body a few yards from your digs, and expecting no one will piece this together into some sort of culpable homicide. To me it does not compute. So your version will help me. |
3rd July 2020, 04:44 AM | #252 |
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What Brendan actually said
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3rd July 2020, 10:23 AM | #253 |
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From Richard Leo's affidavit
Here is a link to an affidavit from Professor Richard Leo on Mr. Dassey's interrogation. The following paragraph is in the conclusions section.
"6) Mr. Joseph Buckley, in a report dated April 4, 2007, asserts that Brendan offered details in his admissions that corroborate the veracity of these statements. In particular, Mr. Buckley asserts that there are at least seventeen (17) “corroborating details offered by Brendan Dassey” in his statements. As I have demonstrated in great detail above, all of the examples of alleged corroboration cited by Buckley are either the product of prompting, suggestion and contamination by the detectives, contamination by the media (this was one of the most highly publicized cases in the history of Wisconsin, and numerous details of the police investigation were released to the print and the broadcast media), guesses that were statistically probable, incorrect guesses that revealed Brendan’s ignorance of the true crime facts rather than any “inside” or “guilty” knowledge, or truthful statements that are consistent with Mr. Dassey’s version of events, in which he is not culpable for any crime." |
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3rd July 2020, 02:32 PM | #254 |
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"What we did that night"
"it's easier to fool people than to convince them that they have been fooled" |
3rd July 2020, 03:11 PM | #255 |
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This was a phone conversation between Steve and an attorney.
Transcript: I guess they were talking to Brendan last night, I guess they got it all on film or tape or whatever, what we did that night. So I don't know what they told him, or, what. Did it relate to the pending case? I guess so. Ah, and who's Brendan? That's Barbie's kid. He's the one who was with me that night, by the fire. END of Steve's words in their completeness. I can't get any notion of your point, "what we did that night" (was be by the fire which presumably they stacked and lit, no mention of what they burned) |
3rd July 2020, 03:29 PM | #256 |
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3rd July 2020, 04:54 PM | #257 |
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3rd July 2020, 10:30 PM | #258 |
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4th July 2020, 12:30 AM | #259 |
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4th July 2020, 03:03 AM | #260 |
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4th July 2020, 03:05 AM | #261 |
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Steven Avery has an IQ of 70. See video below. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B8ek...youtu.be&t=148 |
4th July 2020, 03:06 AM | #262 |
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A crime scene tends to be very crude, often gruesome and in places that are far from sterile.
It is not a sixth-form chemistry experiment in a school lab with a beaker, bunsen burner and pipette. Often there is just one chance to test a speck of blood, a semi fingerprint or a feint DNA trace. |
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4th July 2020, 06:35 AM | #263 |
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4th July 2020, 07:01 AM | #264 |
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Yes, I am being serious.
They framed him once, without any motive other than putting a guy away, so they can bean count. The second time they had 36 million reasons to frame him. Of course since they were framing him, they had exculpatory evidence that they didn't reveal to the defense through discovery. Lots of problems with their case against Avery. One being Teresa's burned body parts in two places. |
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4th July 2020, 07:40 AM | #265 |
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He wasn't framed once. The witness misidentified Avery as her attacker and the Jury believed her.
The lawsuit was estimated to be anywhere from 2 to 36 million. And the States public liability insurance were the ones paying the bill. Avery placing bones in his sisters burn barrel is not a problem. |
4th July 2020, 07:43 AM | #266 |
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4th July 2020, 08:13 AM | #267 |
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photo line-up and live line-up
Here is a link covering the identification that led to Mr. Avery's 1985 conviction.
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4th July 2020, 09:06 AM | #268 |
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4th July 2020, 09:14 AM | #269 |
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It was the bones that were returned to Teresa's family that were not from the burn barrel, nor from Avery's junkyard nor from his property that is the problem.
It indicates that she was burned somewhere else and the bone were placed on Avery's property, but they missed a few. |
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4th July 2020, 12:07 PM | #270 |
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Only the perpetrator would know
"Researchers have closely examined confessions that have been proven to be false with DNA evidence, and they find that well over 90% of these false confessions contain details that supposedly only the perpetrator (and the police) could have known 11,12. We currently have little empirical research on why so many false confessions contain so many accurate details – but one proposed method is called “contamination,” by which police divulge accurate details during questioning, and the suspect later repeats them back in a confession. Alternatively, suggestive questioning can lead a suspect to speculate and guess details of the crime, many of which might turn out to be accurate." link
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5th July 2020, 06:24 AM | #271 |
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5th July 2020, 12:04 PM | #272 |
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5th July 2020, 02:25 PM | #273 |
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There are many things he could do if he invited a woman to his property with the full knowledge of her employer, then raped her, shot her, and burned her body and distributed cremains to 3 locations, 2 on his own property.
One of the things he could not do is pretend he knew nothing about it. They just wouldn't believe him. He would not expect them to. |
5th July 2020, 03:26 PM | #274 |
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6th July 2020, 07:29 AM | #275 |
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6th July 2020, 10:37 AM | #276 |
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There is nothing exculpatory in the first place. Avery's burn pit is the primary burn location and he moved some bones into his sisters burn barrel in the following days. This was all in the prosecutions closing arguments quoted below.
"Bones were moved in this case. There's no question of that. Who moved the bones? To the State, or for the theory of the prosecution is easy. Mr. Avery moved the bones. He moved the big bones. He moved the big bones, the ones he could identify as human bones, from his burn pit, over to his sister's burn barrel. All right. That's a couple hundred feet away. If you think about the selfishness involved in that particular act, that I think is one factor. But I guess more importantly is directing attention away from himself. Might be that first night, might be the 31st, might be the 1st or the 2nd, because he has got a couple of days, as it turns out, before the police officers actually start the investigation." "She was called there by Mr. Avery. And the number one reason why this is the primary burn location is that on October 31st, Mr. Avery had a big whopping fire there, on the 31st of October. And we haven't heard any evidence of a big whopping fire, the kind that would consume, fully consume a human body, anywhere else on that property. That's the primary burn location, ladies and gentlemen. You can find that, and you should find that, beyond a reasonable doubt. That shouldn't be a question." |
6th July 2020, 01:07 PM | #277 |
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6th July 2020, 02:05 PM | #278 |
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6th July 2020, 02:11 PM | #279 |
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6th July 2020, 02:26 PM | #280 |
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It's not a great plan. Why do you feel it has to be? And smart people have been known to do "not so bright" things when getting rid of a body:
gruesome-details-in-chad-daybell-and-lori-vallow-investigation |
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