|
Welcome to the International Skeptics Forum, where we discuss skepticism, critical thinking, the paranormal and science in a friendly but lively way. You are currently viewing the forum as a guest, which means you are missing out on discussing matters that are of interest to you. Please consider registering so you can gain full use of the forum features and interact with other Members. Registration is simple, fast and free! Click here to register today. |
26th April 2019, 04:01 PM | #41 |
Show me the monkey!
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 26,646
|
Originally Posted by Daily Mail
|
__________________
Bigfoot believers and Bigfoot skeptics are both plumb crazy. Each spends more than one minute per year thinking about Bigfoot. |
|
26th April 2019, 10:40 PM | #42 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 13,843
|
|
__________________
"How long you live, how high you fly The smiles you'll give, and tears you'll cry And all you touch, and all you see Is all your life will ever be." |
|
26th April 2019, 11:51 PM | #43 |
Lackey
Administrator
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: South East, UK
Posts: 113,982
|
Thanks for the replies. I can understand the reasoning now.
|
__________________
“If only it were all so simple! If only there were evil people somewhere insidiously committing evil deeds, and it were necessary only to separate them from the rest of us and destroy them. But the line dividing good and evil cuts through the heart of every human being. And who is willing to destroy a piece of his own heart?” Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn, The Gulag Archipelago |
|
30th April 2019, 06:31 AM | #44 |
Show me the monkey!
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 26,646
|
Originally Posted by WFAA 8 ABC News
|
__________________
Bigfoot believers and Bigfoot skeptics are both plumb crazy. Each spends more than one minute per year thinking about Bigfoot. |
|
30th April 2019, 07:08 AM | #45 |
Rough Around the Edges
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: Deep Storage
Posts: 7,686
|
I literally bought a new deadbolt because of this bizarre story. Not because I specifically think a confused, sleepy cop is going to come in and shoot me, but just because it seems like freaking anything is possible. Best have more than one deadbolt.
|
30th April 2019, 07:16 AM | #46 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Aug 2016
Location: Where the Arrantly Roam
Posts: 26,169
|
You missed the point of the story. Buy a gun, and keep it pointed at the door at all times. Fire at the first jiggle and say you were tired, but actually in your own home. Done and done.
Alternatively, B&E guys on the forum should pack one when burglarizing. Say you were tired after a long day of robbing, yada yada yada. |
__________________
"Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to pause and reflect" -Mark Twain "Half of what he said meant something else, and the other half didn't mean anything at all" -Rosencrantz, on Hamlet |
|
30th April 2019, 07:32 AM | #47 |
Self Employed
Remittance Man Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Florida
Posts: 46,649
|
|
__________________
"If everyone in the room says water is wet and I say it's dry that makes me smart because at least I'm thinking for myself!" - The Proudly Wrong. |
|
30th April 2019, 07:39 AM | #48 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Directly under a deadly chemtrail
Posts: 21,423
|
The 911 call will certainly help her case.
|
__________________
What a fool believes, no wise man has the power to reason away. What seems to be, is always better than nothing. 2 prints, same midtarsal crock..., I mean break? |
|
30th April 2019, 08:42 AM | #49 |
Graduate Poster
Join Date: Feb 2015
Posts: 1,474
|
|
30th April 2019, 08:56 AM | #50 |
Orthogonal Vector
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 53,184
|
|
__________________
Sufficiently advanced Woo is indistinguishable from Parody "There shall be no *poofing* in science" Paul C. Anagnostopoulos Force ***** on reasons back" Ben Franklin |
|
30th April 2019, 10:09 AM | #51 |
Self Employed
Remittance Man Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Florida
Posts: 46,649
|
|
__________________
"If everyone in the room says water is wet and I say it's dry that makes me smart because at least I'm thinking for myself!" - The Proudly Wrong. |
|
30th April 2019, 10:11 AM | #52 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: US of A
Posts: 16,613
|
Remember to use it and the door viewer (get one of those, too, if you don't have one). Her account is that she just pushed on the door and it opened. The alternate account is that he heard noises at his door and opened it himself. Either way, an unlocked deadbolt wouldn't have saved him.
|
30th April 2019, 10:18 AM | #53 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Sep 2001
Posts: 21,398
|
It does help assuage the argument that she went their deliberately to kill him. But I don't think that was a very commonly held belief.
On the other hand, it supports the contention that she mistakingly went to the wrong apartment and killed the person who lived there. Then again, I think that is generally stipulated by everyone involved, so not a whole lot learned there. She went to an apartment that was not hers, and when the door opened, she shot the guy that lived there. "These are the facts, and they are not disputed." |
__________________
Gunter Haas, the 'leading British expert,' was a graphologist who advised couples, based on their handwriting characteristics, if they were compatible for marriage. I would submit that couples idiotic enough to do this are probably quite suitable for each other. It's nice when stupid people find love. - Ludovic Kennedy |
|
30th April 2019, 10:23 AM | #54 |
Self Employed
Remittance Man Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Florida
Posts: 46,649
|
That only matters to the In Mens Rea fetishist who think it's not murder/manslaughter/crime unless you submit a notarized "Intent to Murder" form with the city 30 days out.
The fact that she freaked out after she did what she did means less then nothing to me. As you say, it's more a confession than an excuse. |
__________________
"If everyone in the room says water is wet and I say it's dry that makes me smart because at least I'm thinking for myself!" - The Proudly Wrong. |
|
30th April 2019, 10:42 AM | #55 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: US of A
Posts: 16,613
|
Subject for discussion: If she had stepped out of the apartment and pulled the door closed after she shot him, would she ever have been caught? How long would it have taken? There were no security cameras, and even if neighbors had heard shots, they didn't see anything. She could have claimed that she went home to her unit, heard "what sounded like shots," and went upstairs to investigate. If neighbors peered out they would have seen a uniformed police officer investigating a suspicious noise. I suspect that we could be in a different place today if she had kept her wits about her. (Of course, if she had any wits she wouldn't have shot anybody in the first place.)
|
30th April 2019, 10:45 AM | #56 |
Self Employed
Remittance Man Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Florida
Posts: 46,649
|
|
__________________
"If everyone in the room says water is wet and I say it's dry that makes me smart because at least I'm thinking for myself!" - The Proudly Wrong. |
|
30th April 2019, 10:48 AM | #57 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Aug 2016
Location: Where the Arrantly Roam
Posts: 26,169
|
I think she might have to explain shells fired from her weapon and residue on her hands. Ballistics on the bullet would match her weapon, which would be dirty and missing a couple rounds.
Someone was recording her making the 911 call, so were evidently out in the hall fast. How quickly she got up there without being seen would cause enough suspicion to check her weapon. |
__________________
"Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to pause and reflect" -Mark Twain "Half of what he said meant something else, and the other half didn't mean anything at all" -Rosencrantz, on Hamlet |
|
30th April 2019, 12:30 PM | #58 |
Philosopher
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 7,712
|
|
__________________
"I dont call that evolution, I call that the survival of the fittest." - Bulletmaker "I thought skeptics would usually point towards a hoax rather than a group being duped." - makaya325 Kit is not a skeptic. He is a former Bigfoot believer that changed his position to that of non believer.- Crowlogic |
|
30th April 2019, 02:25 PM | #59 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Aug 2016
Location: Where the Arrantly Roam
Posts: 26,169
|
|
__________________
"Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to pause and reflect" -Mark Twain "Half of what he said meant something else, and the other half didn't mean anything at all" -Rosencrantz, on Hamlet |
|
30th April 2019, 02:38 PM | #60 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Directly under a deadly chemtrail
Posts: 21,423
|
It totally supports her story of being tired and going to the wrong apartment.
I think an objective jury will be influenced in her favor by the 911 recording. If there was any doubt that Guyger made a mistake, the 911 call will erase it for most people. However, I still don't know how much leeway the jury will have regarding murder/manslaughter/etc. I have forgotten what the law is in Texas around a murder charge.. |
__________________
What a fool believes, no wise man has the power to reason away. What seems to be, is always better than nothing. 2 prints, same midtarsal crock..., I mean break? |
|
30th April 2019, 02:40 PM | #61 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Directly under a deadly chemtrail
Posts: 21,423
|
|
__________________
What a fool believes, no wise man has the power to reason away. What seems to be, is always better than nothing. 2 prints, same midtarsal crock..., I mean break? |
|
30th April 2019, 02:47 PM | #62 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Aug 2016
Location: Where the Arrantly Roam
Posts: 26,169
|
Its usually doors with decorative glass inserts. They theorize that someone will break through two layers of glass and reach in to turn the deadbolt by hand. Some worry about toddlers locking people out. Both are possible, but getting trapped inside during an emergency trumps those concerns, IMO
|
__________________
"Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to pause and reflect" -Mark Twain "Half of what he said meant something else, and the other half didn't mean anything at all" -Rosencrantz, on Hamlet |
|
30th April 2019, 03:18 PM | #63 |
Graduate Poster
Join Date: Feb 2015
Posts: 1,474
|
well, of course it does. that's her story.
if she really thought she was in her own apartment and being robbed, when asked, her immediate response should have been 1378. not, hold on let me look. as far as she knew, she shot a perp in her own apartment. for no reason since she had the ability to retreat. |
30th April 2019, 03:26 PM | #64 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Directly under a deadly chemtrail
Posts: 21,423
|
|
__________________
What a fool believes, no wise man has the power to reason away. What seems to be, is always better than nothing. 2 prints, same midtarsal crock..., I mean break? |
|
30th April 2019, 03:39 PM | #65 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Aug 2016
Location: Where the Arrantly Roam
Posts: 26,169
|
I believe that she thought she was in her apartment. I also believe she shot him dead because she wanted to, not because she was even a little bit in fear of anything. Murder 2
|
__________________
"Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to pause and reflect" -Mark Twain "Half of what he said meant something else, and the other half didn't mean anything at all" -Rosencrantz, on Hamlet |
|
30th April 2019, 03:47 PM | #66 |
Graduate Poster
Join Date: Feb 2015
Posts: 1,474
|
|
30th April 2019, 04:06 PM | #67 |
Show me the monkey!
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 26,646
|
You are talking about Bunny filming Guyger on the phone. It wasn't fast at all. By the time Bunny started filming the medics and police were already inside the apartment working on Jean. At that point I don't see why Guyger would still be on the phone to 911. Instead she is probably calling family and maybe close friends. That's why she's pacing in the hallway instead of being still inside Jean's apartment.
My estimate would be that Bunny starts filming about 6-8 minutes after the shots are fired. |
__________________
Bigfoot believers and Bigfoot skeptics are both plumb crazy. Each spends more than one minute per year thinking about Bigfoot. |
|
30th April 2019, 04:11 PM | #68 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Directly under a deadly chemtrail
Posts: 21,423
|
She doesn't notice until after the shooting, when she turns the lights on, imo.
Prior to that, she was still loopy from lack of sleep and did not notice the door number or mat. The "burglar in her home", woke her up and she was focused on him at that point. She's still guilty though. She'll still do many years in jail. |
__________________
What a fool believes, no wise man has the power to reason away. What seems to be, is always better than nothing. 2 prints, same midtarsal crock..., I mean break? |
|
30th April 2019, 04:13 PM | #69 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Aug 2016
Location: Where the Arrantly Roam
Posts: 26,169
|
|
__________________
"Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to pause and reflect" -Mark Twain "Half of what he said meant something else, and the other half didn't mean anything at all" -Rosencrantz, on Hamlet |
|
30th April 2019, 04:19 PM | #70 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Directly under a deadly chemtrail
Posts: 21,423
|
It doesn't appear that the shots were heard by very many people?
Did anyone other than Guyger call 911? Guyger would only need to be slightly past the doorway to have the sound of the gunshots greatly reduced. as far as the outside world is concerned. I think shots fired two feet outside the doorway would be heard by a lot more people than shots fired two feet inside the doorway. |
__________________
What a fool believes, no wise man has the power to reason away. What seems to be, is always better than nothing. 2 prints, same midtarsal crock..., I mean break? |
|
30th April 2019, 04:30 PM | #71 |
Show me the monkey!
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 26,646
|
She claims to be the only person who filmed Guyger at all. That is probably true. Her film doesn't show anyone other than Guyger, and you don't hear anyone else (witnesses) speaking either.
My opinion is that Bunny never heard the gunshots or Guyger yelling to Jean. Of all the witnesses, she lives the furthest from Jean and isn't even on the same floor. |
__________________
Bigfoot believers and Bigfoot skeptics are both plumb crazy. Each spends more than one minute per year thinking about Bigfoot. |
|
30th April 2019, 05:22 PM | #72 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: US of A
Posts: 16,613
|
|
30th April 2019, 05:29 PM | #73 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Aug 2016
Location: Where the Arrantly Roam
Posts: 26,169
|
Usually, and as I said, other customers are worried that a toddler will lock them out inadvertently. IME, bad guys don't go through glass at the front door. Too noisy and obvious. There are usually many easier ways to get in quietly and inconspicuously. Can't even remember the last time I dealt with a glass break in (repair on my end), but back door kick-ins and pry-ins galore
|
__________________
"Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to pause and reflect" -Mark Twain "Half of what he said meant something else, and the other half didn't mean anything at all" -Rosencrantz, on Hamlet |
|
30th April 2019, 08:03 PM | #74 |
Philosopher
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 7,508
|
It may be more harmful than it initially appears.
Beneficial for her: She called 911. Apparently right away. She didn't try to hide anything. It reinforces that she really believed she was in her own apartment. She has to hold on to give the apartment number. You can hear in her voice when she says the apartment number the second time that she realizes that she is in the apartment immediately below hers. She says over and over again that she thought she was in her apartment. She thought she parked on the third floor. Near the end of the call she is obviously trying to figure out how her key opened the door if it wasn't her apartment. At the end she says that she is so tired, supporting suspicions that it was exhaustion that caused her to miss otherwise noticeable details that resulted in her going to the wrong apartment. She's distraught. She's remorseful. She keeps saying she is sorry. The call appears to support her claim that she was attempting to render aid. Unfavorable for her: She doesn't says that the gun went off accidentally. She has never publicly made that claim and I don't think anyone believes that was the case, but the call would probably take that claim fully out of the picture. She seems more concerned with how this will affect her than the man she shot. She keeps saying "I'm" ******, "I'm" going to lose my job, "I'm" done. She seems more sorry for herself than her victim. Most important is what she didn't say. Although she says over and over and over that she thought she was in her apartment, she never says anything about why she actually shot him. She doesn't say that she thought he had a gun or that he was reaching for a weapon or that he was coming at her or even that the was not obeying commands. She gives no reason why deadly force would have been justified. She repeatedly says she thought she was in her apartment, which is her mind racing trying to "justify" or "explain" why this occurred. If Jean had done something that would have justified lethal force, we would expect that Guyger would have mentioned that while rationalizing her actions during the call. She did not. |
__________________
I don't need to fight to prove I'm right. - Baba O'Riley |
|
1st May 2019, 05:13 AM | #75 |
Self Employed
Remittance Man Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Florida
Posts: 46,649
|
|
__________________
"If everyone in the room says water is wet and I say it's dry that makes me smart because at least I'm thinking for myself!" - The Proudly Wrong. |
|
1st May 2019, 05:20 AM | #76 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Apr 2018
Posts: 35,043
|
Confirms what I already suspected. This case won't be one of determining whether Guyger was guilty or not, but of determining what exact crime she is guilty of committing. There isn't any plausible scenario in which the killing was not unlawful. Short of a massive show of incompetence by the prosecutors, Guyger will be a convicted killer by the end of the trial.
That doesn't mean there isn't going to be a contested legal process. Guyger's defense will be working to have her convicted of the least severe form of murder/manslaughter possible given the evidence presented at trial. Parsing between the various charges available involving the unlawful killing of another could be the difference of many years of prison time. Concepts like mens rea, as perhaps indicated by the 911 call right after the fact, will likely be very important. |
__________________
Previously known as SuburbanTurkey |
|
1st May 2019, 05:48 AM | #77 |
Show me the monkey!
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 26,646
|
|
__________________
Bigfoot believers and Bigfoot skeptics are both plumb crazy. Each spends more than one minute per year thinking about Bigfoot. |
|
1st May 2019, 05:49 AM | #78 |
Mad Mod Poet God
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: St. Louis, MO
Posts: 3,316
|
The amusing thing to me for most of these "policeman shoot unarmed non-threat civilians", is that in almost every single one of them, if a civilian would have been the one pulling the trigger, prison time would pretty much be a guarantee.
Forget about holding the police to a higher standard; it's an incredibly hard today just to hold them to our standard. |
__________________
"You can find that book everywhere and the risk is that many people who read it believe that those fairy tales are real. I think I have the responsibility to clear things up to unmask the cheap lies contained in books like that." - Cardinal Tarcisio Bertone |
|
1st May 2019, 06:11 AM | #80 |
Show me the monkey!
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 26,646
|
I believe that the Jean Family attorney (Merritt) and claimed witness Bunny both still think that she went to his apartment for the purpose of murdering him knowing that it was his apartment. There have been other people in the press as well who think that it was a pre-planned murder. I don't know if the 911 call transcript would change their thinking.
She did administer first aid, and in her call you can hear her speaking to Jean both as encouraging him to remain alert (stay alive) and apologizing to him. It isn't typical for a murderer to want their victim to stay alive... to be alive... to be able to testify against them in court for what they have done. The fact that Guyger wanted Jean to be alive is contrary to the theory that she went there to murder him. It could even be argued that wanting him to be alive is contrary to intentional murder with racist intent. We have people in this forum and elsewhere saying that she only pulled the trigger because Jean was black. |
__________________
Bigfoot believers and Bigfoot skeptics are both plumb crazy. Each spends more than one minute per year thinking about Bigfoot. |
|
Thread Tools | |
|
|