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22nd August 2019, 05:28 PM | #161 |
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This case isn't unusual. "Walk into someone house, shot them while they are sitting there doing nothing" wouldn't even be a discussion in any sane society, and wouldn't be one on this board without
A) an epidemic of law enforcement shooting black men B) An army of people writing pro-innocence fan fiction about this woman. |
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22nd August 2019, 05:57 PM | #162 |
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22nd August 2019, 06:07 PM | #163 |
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Guyger being a police officer makes the bar of "reasonable error" much higher, though (at least, IMO). She wasn't an ordinary person responding to an unfamiliar situation; presumably, she had training in how to handle this kind of situation, through things like fully assessing a situation and trying to deescalate before moving to lethal force (AFAIK, pretty common in police training). Even somethings as basic and common as getting a concealed carry permit generally requires education in deescalation measures, as well. She was a trained professional that knew better and should have done better, but completely failed, and should be held accountable.
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22nd August 2019, 06:12 PM | #164 |
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22nd August 2019, 07:12 PM | #165 |
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She's not under trial for going home, she's under trial for shooting someone. On duty or not, when facing a confrontation like that, she should have resorted to her training, because it's the proper way to handle that situation. Especially consider that, broadly speaking, off-duty officers are seen as having the same authority as when on duty. Maybe you don't see her negligence as a serious issue, but I do. The same way I don't think it would be acceptable for an off duty EMT to provide bad and potentially dangerous first aid to someone.
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23rd August 2019, 12:32 AM | #166 |
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23rd August 2019, 02:30 AM | #167 |
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“If only it were all so simple! If only there were evil people somewhere insidiously committing evil deeds, and it were necessary only to separate them from the rest of us and destroy them. But the line dividing good and evil cuts through the heart of every human being. And who is willing to destroy a piece of his own heart?” Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn, The Gulag Archipelago |
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23rd August 2019, 05:28 AM | #168 |
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Jesus Christ dude.
"Listen nobody specifically trained me on how to not shoot people unarmed people sitting in their own homes!" as an excuse. Arguing that NOT shooting unarmed people sitting in their own homes doing nothing is expecting people to be "more than human." This is a farce. A total farce. |
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23rd August 2019, 06:04 AM | #169 |
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"Use of force consistent with training" is "just following orders" repackaged for non-military police.
It is absurdity at its highest. It's a world where a trained officer has lower standards of behavior when it comes to use of force than just a regular citizen. A citizen who shoots someone has to explain why their use of force was consistent with the law and has no "police training" crutch to lean on. Training does not override the law. An unlawful killing is still an unlawful killing, even if poorly devised police policies lead to it. |
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23rd August 2019, 06:16 AM | #170 |
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And besides her being or not being a cop makes no difference.
1. If she was "in the moment" a cop, her training dictates that she IDENTIFIES THE GODDAMN TARGET before shooting. 2. If she was "in the moment" a citizen she still had a legal, moral, and hell logical mandate to IDENTIFY THE GODDAMN TARGET before shooting. Citizen, cop, MIB secret agent... none of them are allowed to just fire into the dark. But the racist apologist are demanding this lady remain "Schrodinger's Cop in Schrodinger's Situation" where the apartment is perfectly light enough for her see that there is someone in there but perfectly dark enough for her to not know he is unarmed oh and IT'S NOT HER GODDAMN APARTMENT, and when faced with the "threat" she just reflexively followed her "cop training" except the part about identifying the target and I need to be 100% clear here... that perfect balanced place DOES NOT GODDAMN EXIST. If it's too dark to identify the target, you don't shoot. If it's light enough to identify the target it's light enough to identify the GODDAMN APARTMENT. End of discussion. There is no weasel room in there. She either shot a man in his own apartment and SHE KNEW IT or she didn't properly identify the target. |
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23rd August 2019, 06:43 AM | #171 |
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What he said ^
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23rd August 2019, 06:59 AM | #172 |
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23rd August 2019, 08:12 AM | #173 |
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If you live alone, and walk into your darkened apartment with someone coming after you, and they don't stop when you tell them to, it's reasonable to think that you would be allowed to shoot that person.
You're missing the part about mistake of fact. If she legitimately thought she was in her apartment, an intruder in the dark coming for you is a green light to shoot. There is no requirement to identify a target in the dark if you think you are in danger in your own house. |
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23rd August 2019, 08:14 AM | #174 |
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He was sitting at his counter eating a ******* bowl of cereal. He wasn't "coming for" her at all.
Also, she wasn't in her own house and that's her fault. She also had to put in effort to get into that house because the door was closed. What you're saying here is nonsensical. ETA: Everything she did that day was wrong and it was her fault. She parked on the wrong floor of the ramp, she walked into an apartment that wasn't hers, she didn't pay attention to all of the things that would alert her to it not being her apartment. Everything was her fault. Everything. No exceptions. |
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23rd August 2019, 08:18 AM | #175 |
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23rd August 2019, 08:19 AM | #176 |
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You might be correct.
We will see where he was shot, and we will see if the door lock was used to prop the door open, when the trial starts. I still think they might drop the charges, because the DPD is going to get flayed open on overtime. Experts about performance issues due to fatigue, Commanders knowing about this, and City officials telling them to keep doing it. |
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23rd August 2019, 08:21 AM | #177 |
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The man with one watch knows what time it is, the man with two watches is never sure. |
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23rd August 2019, 08:24 AM | #178 |
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23rd August 2019, 08:34 AM | #179 |
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The defense will stipulate that she was in the wrong apartment.
But they will stipulate that at the time of the shooting, the jury should consider that she THOUGHT she was in her apartment. |
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23rd August 2019, 08:35 AM | #180 |
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Why would he prop the door open? I mean, Occam's Razor is a thing. If the apartment was dark, and she had to turn the lights on, I would bet he was getting ready to go to bed. After all, Officer Sleepy McShootFace was so tired after her 16 hours that she could barely stay awake! Probably the same goes for him? So he propped his door open just to let some people come in at random?
I don't. The good thing about it is...it doesn't matter either way. I couldn't give a **** what he was doing because it was his god damned house and he can do whatever the **** he wants in it. I don't care if he was hopping up and down with a loaded AK-47, smoking a joint while eating hallucinogenic mushrooms. It still doesn't give her the right to enter his house, it certainly doesn't give her the right to shoot him, and all in all it really shouldn't matter to the case. Again, everything here is her fault. |
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23rd August 2019, 08:35 AM | #181 |
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23rd August 2019, 08:37 AM | #182 |
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Okay I've lost all patients with this.
IT... WASN'T... HER... APARTMENT. That's not some trivial little small detail.
Quote:
IT WASN'T HER HOUSE. IT WASN'T HER HOUSE. IT WASN'T HER HOUSE. IT WASN'T HER HOUSE. IT WASN'T HER HOUSE. IT WASN'T HER HOUSE. IT WASN'T HER HOUSE. IT WASN'T HER HOUSE. IT WASN'T HER HOUSE. |
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23rd August 2019, 08:40 AM | #183 |
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I agree that everything that happened was Guyers fault.
My feeling ( based upon what has been made public ) is that she made a mistake that cost Jean his life, and is most definitely civilly liable. I am not convinced her actions were criminal (although I would like them to be) |
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23rd August 2019, 08:42 AM | #184 |
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23rd August 2019, 08:44 AM | #185 |
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23rd August 2019, 08:47 AM | #186 |
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23rd August 2019, 08:47 AM | #187 |
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Then you have absolutely no idea how the law works, and have never been involved with it because you are WAY off kilter on this one.
Entering someone else's apartment isn't "a mistake". It's negligent by the very literal definition of that word. The apartment numbers are lit up, she parked on the wrong floor, she went into a place that wasn't hers when the door was closed, she didn't do any due diligence and with no regard started shooting at someone. Every. *******. Thing. She. Did. Was. Wrong. |
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23rd August 2019, 08:52 AM | #188 |
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23rd August 2019, 09:00 AM | #189 |
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23rd August 2019, 09:01 AM | #190 |
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Was it the only bowl not in the sink? I didn't catch the inventory on that.
I mean, it doesn't matter one way or the other. I see sidebars like that as a good test of objectivity. Are we projecting the most innocent activities we can on Jean, with confirmation bias, or looking levely? |
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23rd August 2019, 09:02 AM | #191 |
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23rd August 2019, 09:03 AM | #192 |
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Okay I've asked this of the apologist a dozen times and haven't got an answer.
WHAT IS A CRIME IN YOUR WORLD? What couldn't be countered with "LOL I though the situation was different so you have to say I'm innocent." |
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23rd August 2019, 09:03 AM | #193 |
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23rd August 2019, 09:04 AM | #194 |
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Jean is not on trial, and his right to be present in his own home is not in question. If he had, on Guyger forcing his door open, taken a gun and emptied the magazine into her chest, he would not be guilty of a crime under Texas law (though a biased jury might find him guilty of one). It matters not one jot how innocent his activities were; Guyger had no reasonable cause to break into his apartment and shoot him dead.
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23rd August 2019, 09:05 AM | #195 |
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CNN has a video of the crime scene where you can see the entire living room, and a walk through of the apartment. So yes, it's the only bowl not in the sink.
Can you show that I have confirmation bias or that I am not looking levely (whatever the hell that word means)? |
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23rd August 2019, 09:11 AM | #196 |
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23rd August 2019, 09:14 AM | #197 |
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23rd August 2019, 09:15 AM | #198 |
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The point is, why are you asking how Jean's activities are being considered when it's of no relevance?
Dave ETA: Think I see what you mean; are people betraying their anti-Guyger bias by showing pro-Jean bias. Still, hard to see how bias can make Guyger's actions much worse than they were. Any verdict short of negligent homicide would be a travesty. |
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23rd August 2019, 09:19 AM | #199 |
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Levely? Really?
If you say that he was sitting at the counter eating cereal and did not run at her, you are stating as fact sever things at once that are not on the record. Was he not said to have been watching football earlier? If he was sitting at the counter, he would seemed to have moved quite a bit to where his body lay. I think it is just as likely he was watching the game and jumped up at the ruckus at his door. I sure would have. But it sounds more Dewey-eyed to claim he was just eating his bweakfast and was a sitting duck. Not calling you to the carpet, man. Just noticing when details are cherry picked for effect. |
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23rd August 2019, 09:23 AM | #200 |
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