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6th November 2019, 03:40 PM | #121 |
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6th November 2019, 04:07 PM | #122 |
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While I was slightly amused by this line in the Telegraph:
Miss Ganong has accused the US media of misleading the public with a sympathy towards Fox in coverage that "bordered on the xenophobic" in its attack on Italian justice (Surely she meant "Foxy"!) I do not see in either links any proof that Clinton did anything to advance Knox's case except offer to meet with the senator. |
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6th November 2019, 04:08 PM | #123 |
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Oh, good lord. Neither of those supports your claim, Vixen. This is an email TO Clinton from someone named Cheryl Mills about the rights to Knox's book.
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This is a link to an article which does NOT mention this alleged email from Clinton that "she'll look into it". What she does say, and not in an email ,is:
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6th November 2019, 04:22 PM | #124 |
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After your failure to provide evidence of any of the following, I'd say you are the one who needs lessons in research on the internet:
1.the money/credit card charges were "dropped", 2. Knox flew home on a privately chartered jet/747, 3. Sollecito owned a Napapijri jacket 4. or a white cap w/ a red band, 5. RS is left handed, 6. Fancesco Sollecito attended Rocco S's memorial in Bari, 7.Curt Knox said it was a "$2 million" PR campaign, 8. a sheet was found under Kercher's body, 9. Vinci said Knox's DNA was on the bra hook, 10. Wikileaks released an email from Clinton saying she'd look into the case. And those are just off the top of my head. We can all add to this extensive list. Take a look back in ISF at all of the above topics and you'll find that either I, or someone else here, did provide evidence that all the above claims are FALSE. That you would even say "I'm" the one who needs to learn to do internet research shows one thing: you've certainly got chutzpah. |
6th November 2019, 07:18 PM | #125 |
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There appear to be some postings with misunderstandings or fabrications about the details of DNA STR profiling.
First, it is not at all uncommon for persons of differing genetic, ethnic or national backgrounds to have some of the same alleles at some loci, and this is clear in the reference DNA STR profiles of Kercher [European (British) and South Asian (Pakistani) ancestry], Guede [West African (Ivory Coast) ancestry], Knox [European (British* and German) ancestry], and Sollecito [European (Italian) ancestry]. Examining the reference autosomal*** DNA STR profiles (each of the same 15 loci) as reported by Stefanoni: At 4 loci Kercher and Guede have one allele the same****, while at 1 locus (D18S51) both alleles are the same****. At 7 loci Kercher and Knox have one allele the same, while at 1 locus (TH01) both alleles are the same. At 7 loci Kercher and Sollecito have one allele the same, while at 1 locus (D7S820) both alleles are the same. At 7 loci Knox and Guede have one allele the same, while they have no locus with both alleles the same. At 5 loci Knox and Sollecito have one allele the same, while they have no locus with both alleles the same. At 8 loci Sollecito and Guede have one allele the same, while at 1 locus (TPOX) both alleles are the same. Thus, if one were to mix up the DNA of two or three of the above, one could falsely interpret that some loci were present from the fourth individual. For example, at locus D16S539, Kercher has alleles with 10 and 14 repeats, while Sollecito has alleles with 11 and 14 repeats. Mix the DNA of the two, and a profile with alleles of 10, 11, and 14 would appear. One could then falsely claim that Knox - who has alleles with repeats of 10 and 11 at this locus - contributed DNA to the mixture. With a mixture from enough individuals, it is likely that many of any person's DNA loci could be falsely interpreted to be present. For that reason, the standard of interpretation is that if even one locus does not support such a claim, the claim is false. Therefore, the bra clasp DNA profile does not demonstrate any contribution from Knox. If one were to include the DNA of other individuals, such at the contaminant DNA of several males present on the bra clasp hook, similar overlaps or identities of alleles at the loci of the profiles would be highly likely. That is because there is a relatively small range of different repeat numbers to be found in the alleles of any specific locus. The relatively common situation of alleles at some loci being the same in different individuals leads to confusion in the interpretation of DNA mixtures, especially if three or more individuals have contributed. Thus, this is the situation with the bra clasp - one can arbitrarily group some alleles together to falsely and absurdly claim that those few alleles were contributed by Knox, although Knox's complete 15-loci profile is not at all present. Of interest, forensic scientists and law enforcement are currently developing additional loci beyond the minimum 13 commonly used in the US since "mixture detectability will improve with use of more STR loci".***** Also relevant to this case, the author of the paper states "Superb sensitivity is available with forensic DNA testing due to amplification of target regions with the polymerase chain reaction (PCR). DNA results can be obtained from as little as a single cell depending on methods used. However, this exquisite sensitivity is both a blessing and a curse. When high-sensitivity techniques are used, a very real possibility exists for contamination from DNA coming from someone not associated with the crime sample under investigation. If consumables such as swabs or tubes are not DNA-free, then the manufacturer's DNA may be detected and even lead investigators down the wrong path. A number of measures, such as examining negative controls, are typically used to prevent drawing incorrect conclusions if DNA contamination occurs." Stefanoni suppressed - hid results from the court and the defense - for almost all of her negative controls. The few control results she did present clearly showed that contamination was indeed present. * "Knox" is a surname originating in Scotland**. The most well-known American with this surname is perhaps the Revolutionary War general Henry Knox, who was chief of artillery under Washington. However, in the US, surnames do not necessarily reflect the ancestry of a person ** https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Knox_(surname) *** That is, not including the Y chromosome DNA STRs, which are only present in genetic males. **** "The same" means the same number of repeats in only one or in both of the two STR alleles present in a pairwise comparison at each of the 15 loci of the profiles of the individuals, as stated. ***** The future of forensic DNA analysis; Butler, John M., National Institute of Standards and Technology; Philos Trans R Soc Lond B Biol Sci 370:1674 (2015) https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4580997/ |
6th November 2019, 07:43 PM | #126 |
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Now hold on here, Numbers. You've got this ALL wrong. I, a pro-guilt commentator, understand Jack Schmidt about DNA science or DNA profiling (though I pretend I do, and I like to throw around the vocabulary of DNA science in an embarrassing attempt to lend credibility to the nonsensical crap I'm writing). But that doesn't at all stop me from boldly (and baldly) asserting that Knox's DNA was clearly and reliably found on the bra clasp. And nor does it stop me from further asserting that not-a-real-doctor Stefanoni's work on the forensic evidence in this case was truly world-class, and that Stefanoni acted wholly scrupulously and in no way sought to obfuscate, withhold, misdirect or lie during the trial process for Knox and Sollecito. In addition, my critical thinking prowess means that I can state with impunity that the only people to challenge the DNA evidence in this case are either paid shills or people who consider Knox and Sollecito to be their heroes (or who are somehow in love with Knox and/or Sollecito). I consider my stance on this issue to be inviolable and impervious to any challenge, on account of my rigorous commitment to accuracy, backed up by breathtakingly-high levels of research and a masterly command of my brief. And as I said before, my intellect-lite total balls-up of any understanding of DNA science is, frankly, no hindrance to the strength of my position. I am right, and you (and all the other pro-acquittal/pro-innocence shills and hero-worshippers) are wrong. End of. |
6th November 2019, 09:17 PM | #127 |
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And speaking of the Y-STR analysis, I learned something new as a result of reviewing the data, and that is that Stefanoni failed to report in the RTIGF seven alleles that are unique to Guede. At the end of the day it doesn't really change anything as there were still 5 loci that did not match Guede, but I find it interesting that we have people like Vixen and The Machine incessantly trying to argue Amanda's DNA is on the clasp, yet these same Guede apologists never mention there is a stronger case to be made that his DNA is on it.
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6th November 2019, 09:32 PM | #128 |
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6th November 2019, 10:10 PM | #129 |
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Here is the correction in a free-standing post allowing it to be quoted using the forum software, should anyone wish:
There appear to be some postings with misunderstandings or fabrications about the details of DNA STR profiling. First, it is not at all uncommon for persons of differing genetic, ethnic or national backgrounds to have some of the same alleles at some loci, and this is clear in the reference DNA STR profiles of Kercher [European (British) and South Asian (Pakistani) ancestry], Guede [West African (Ivory Coast) ancestry], Knox [European (British* and German) ancestry], and Sollecito [European (Italian) ancestry]. Examining the reference autosomal*** DNA STR profiles (each of the same 15 loci) as reported by Stefanoni: At 4 loci Kercher and Guede have one allele the same****, while at 1 locus (D18S51) both alleles are the same****. At 7 loci Kercher and Knox have one allele the same, while at 1 locus (TH01) both alleles are the same. At 7 loci Kercher and Sollecito have one allele the same, while at two loci (D7S820 and FGA) both alleles are the same. At 7 loci Knox and Guede have one allele the same, while they have no locus with both alleles the same. At 5 loci Knox and Sollecito have one allele the same, while they have no locus with both alleles the same. At 8 loci Sollecito and Guede have one allele the same, while at 1 locus (TPOX) both alleles are the same. Thus, if one were to mix up the DNA of two or three of the above, one could falsely interpret that some loci were present from the fourth individual. For example, at locus D16S539, Kercher has alleles with 10 and 14 repeats, while Sollecito has alleles with 11 and 14 repeats. Mix the DNA of the two, and a profile with alleles of 10, 11, and 14 would appear. One could then falsely claim that Knox - who has alleles with repeats of 10 and 11 at this locus - contributed DNA to the mixture. With a mixture from enough individuals, it is likely that many of any person's DNA loci could be falsely interpreted to be present. For that reason, the standard of interpretation is that if even one locus does not support such a claim, the claim is false. Therefore, the bra clasp DNA profile does not demonstrate any contribution from Knox. If one were to include the DNA of other individuals, such at the contaminant DNA of several males present on the bra clasp hook, similar overlaps or identities of alleles at the loci of the profiles would be highly likely. That is because there is a relatively small range of different repeat numbers to be found in the alleles of any specific locus. The relatively common situation of alleles at some loci being the same in different individuals leads to confusion in the interpretation of DNA mixtures, especially if three or more individuals have contributed. Thus, this is the situation with the bra clasp - one can arbitrarily group some alleles together to falsely and absurdly claim that those few alleles were contributed by Knox, although Knox's complete 15-loci profile is not at all present. Of interest, forensic scientists and law enforcement are currently developing additional loci beyond the minimum 13 commonly used in the US since "mixture detectability will improve with use of more STR loci".***** Also relevant to this case, the author of the paper states "Superb sensitivity is available with forensic DNA testing due to amplification of target regions with the polymerase chain reaction (PCR). DNA results can be obtained from as little as a single cell depending on methods used. However, this exquisite sensitivity is both a blessing and a curse. When high-sensitivity techniques are used, a very real possibility exists for contamination from DNA coming from someone not associated with the crime sample under investigation. If consumables such as swabs or tubes are not DNA-free, then the manufacturer's DNA may be detected and even lead investigators down the wrong path. A number of measures, such as examining negative controls, are typically used to prevent drawing incorrect conclusions if DNA contamination occurs." Stefanoni suppressed - hid results from the court and the defense - for almost all of her negative controls. The few control results she did present clearly showed that contamination was indeed present. * "Knox" is a surname originating in Scotland**. The most well-known American with this surname is perhaps the Revolutionary War general Henry Knox, who was chief of artillery under Washington. However, in the US, surnames do not necessarily reflect the ancestry of a person. ** https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Knox_(surname) *** That is, not including the Y chromosome DNA STRs, which are only present in genetic males. **** "The same" means the same number of repeats in only one or in both of the two STR alleles present in a pairwise comparison at each of the 15 loci of the profiles of the individuals, as stated. ***** The future of forensic DNA analysis; Butler, John M., National Institute of Standards and Technology; Philos Trans R Soc Lond B Biol Sci 370:1674 (2015) https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4580997/ |
6th November 2019, 10:48 PM | #130 |
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I've done some additional analysis to show the diversity of the partial matches among the loci of the profiles of the four individuals: Meredith Kercher (MK), Amanda Knox (AK), Raffaele Sollecito (RS), and Rudy Guede (RG).
This additional analysis allowed me to find the error in my original post. For simplicity, in the presentation, I have used L-1, ... , L-15 to represent the designations of the loci D8S1179, ... , FGA, keeping the order used by Stefanoni. In the presentation, for each pairing of individuals, I will list the loci in which a "same" allele was observed, followed by the number of repetitions, set off in parentheses, in that "same" allele. The cases where both alleles of a locus were observed to be the same are preceded by "ID" (for identical) and the repetitions of both alleles of the locus are given. MK & RG L-3 (11); L-9 (23); L-12 (8); L-14 (12) ID: L-13 (14,15) MK & AK L-2 (30); L-4 (12); L-5 (18); L-7 (13); L-8 (10); L-9 (20); L-12 (8) ID: L-6 (6,8) MK & RS L-1 (13); L-2 (33.2); L-4 (12); L-7 (8); L-8 (14); L-12 (8); L-14 (12) ID: L-3 (8,11); L-15 (20,21) AK & RG L-2 (29); L-5 (15); L-7 (11); L-8 (11); L-10 (13); L-12 (8); L-14 (13) ID: None AK & RS L-4 (12); L-8 (11); L-10 (13); L-12 (8); L-13 (17) ID: None RS & RG L-3 (11); L-5 (16); L-6 (9); L-7 (12); L-8 (11); L-9 (16); L-10 (13); L-14 (12) ID: L-12 (8,9) Source: http://www.injusticeinperugia.org/dnaprofiles.html |
6th November 2019, 10:54 PM | #131 |
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7th November 2019, 02:10 AM | #132 |
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The allele peak readings are due to the PCR mix being charged with flourescent electro-impulses in order to highlight them so they can be read easily, these give the "relative fluorescence units" RFU's.
It is possible to separate out mixed DNA. On the bra clasp it is possible to ascertain four different individuals, one of which is unknown, but were this person to come into radar, his DNA can indeed be matched to the profile. Most likely it is random background noise and he has nothing to do with the crime at all. (But who knows...?) Identifying someone's DNA on an item at a crime scene does not of itself in isolation mean anything. Just as someone picking out someone in an ID parade isn't acceptable evidence on its own, likewise, the presence of someone's DNA at a crime scene has to be looked at in perspective with the rest of the evidence. Thus it is utter nonsense for Vecchiotti to claim her DNA is also reflected in Sample 165B. However, it is telling that laymen like yourself swallow up such nonsense. You can't know whether Knox is British or not as AIUI Curt Knox was adopted (or so it is stated somewhere). However, geneticists cannot distinguish English, German and French DNA from each other as they are so intermingled throughout the centuries (thus, Brits who claim they can be identified by others as French or German when they go abroad are deluded). However, geneticists can identify a British gene and that generally means 'Scottish or Irish' as these genes didn't mix with the continent as the English did. IOW if you have a DNA test, the people mostly likely to come back with 100% 'British' are the Scots and Irish, whereas the English will often have something like 'up to 40% 'German or French' or just a generalised 'Western Europe'. Even if Vecchiotti has the common H haplotype type, it doesn't mean Knox does as well. |
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7th November 2019, 04:27 AM | #133 |
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1) LMAO (I've given up on buying replacement Irony-o-meters....) 2) You STILL apparently don't understand that Vecchiotti was not claiming she shared the same DNA markers as Knox. Instead, Vecchiotti was saying that her own DNA markers could also be found amidst the number of alleged peaks (some of which were undoubtedly stutters) within that DNA admixture. ETA 3) You couldn't be more incorrect to claim that "on the bra clasp it is possible to ascertain four different individuals, one of which is unknown". In fact, Kercher's DNA and Sollecito's DNA (albeit at a low-template quantity*) are present, but there is also clear evidence of the presence of DNA from at least two other, as-yet-unidentified males. So that adds up to at least four, at least two of whom are unknown. (I mean it's cute and cunning of you to still be trying to suggest that Knox can be identified as a DNA contributor to the bra clasp and all, but in the critical-thinking world of scientific literacy and the provision of reliable evidence to support a claim, you know that just won't wash, Vixen....). * And given not-a-real-doctor Stefanoni's incompetence and lies around her lab methods and suppression of raw data, coupled with the shockingly inept way in which the bra clasp was ignored, ill-treated, collected, transported and stored, and also give the presence of markers from at lease two other unidentified males, it's a total no-brainer to know that the presence of Sollecito's DNA is in no way reliable evidence that he ever actually came into primary contact with the bra clasp. |
7th November 2019, 04:31 AM | #134 |
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Yes. And lest we forget, the swabs from Kercher's body were taken during the pathologist's examination, and (IIRC) were analysed in-house at the hospital* * But I'm by no means certain of that. In any case, it's something of a moot point because Guede's DNA from his epithelial cells (his fingers or genitals....) was present at verifiable, reliable, regular PCR levels. Even Stefanoni couldn't have cocked that one up. |
7th November 2019, 05:09 AM | #135 |
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7th November 2019, 05:51 AM | #136 |
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You didn't read what I wrote (again....), Vixen. The question is not whether his DNA is present or not. The question is whether it can reliably be said to have been deposited there through primary transfer. And do you know the correct answer to that question, Vixen? And further, do you know the correct implication of that correct answer? |
7th November 2019, 07:50 AM | #137 |
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Some posters and lurkers here may be confused about the fact that STR DNA profiles do not necessarily give information on a person's ethnic or national ancestry.
It's important to remember that the variations in DNA among humans are very small: "...the genetic difference between individual humans today is minuscule – about 0.1%, on average".* The DNA differences used to estimate the ethnic or national ancestry of a person are called Single Nucleotide Polymorphisms (SNPs). "Single nucleotide polymorphisms, frequently called SNPs (pronounced “snips”), are the most common type of genetic variation among people. Each SNP represents a difference in a single DNA building block, called a nucleotide. For example, a SNP may replace the nucleotide cytosine (C) with the nucleotide thymine (T) in a certain stretch of DNA." ** "Many SNPs are meaningless when it comes to our health. But they can be useful starting points for tracing ancestry. That’s because, like everything else in our genome, SNPs are passed down through the generations. The more SNPs we share in common with another person, the more likely we share a similar, and more recent, ancestry. Your ancestry is estimated by comparing your SNP results with a genetic database of people with {supposedly} known ancestries...." These SNP tests look for known SNPs among the approximately 3 billion base pairs in the human nuclear genome in order the estimate ethnic or national ancestry as well as potential genetic tendencies for certain diseases. These SNP tests look for known SNPs among the approximately 3 billion base pairs in the human nuclear genome.*** * http://humanorigins.si.edu/evidence/genetics ** https://ghr.nlm.nih.gov/primer/genomicresearch/snp *** https://www.vox.com/science-and-heal...ence-explainer Thus, the DNA testing method, analysis of Single Nucleotide Polymorphisms (SNPs), used to estimate a person's ethnic or national ancestry and potential for certain diseases, is quite different from the Short Tandem Repeat (STR) method, used, for example, to definitively compare the DNA left at a crime scene with the DNA of other individuals, and also in paternity and maternity tests. Here is a brief description of some key elements of the STR methodology and its rationale: "Stretches of the human genome {at some places along the chromosomes} consist of short sequences of DNA which are repeated in tandem. The number of blocks of these short sequence repeats in a given locus is highly variable between unrelated individuals. These repeated sequences are known as variable number of tandem repeat sequences (VNTR). VNTRs are broadly characterized into mini- and micro-satellites based on the size of the repeated blocks. In micro-satellites, the sequence repeat unit consists of between 2 to 9 base pairs, while mini-satellites consist of between 9 to 100 base pairs. Micro-satellites or STRs are generally more practical to be used for individualization.... STRs are highly polymorphic, and alleles of the STR loci are differentiated by the number of copies of the repeat sequence within each of the STR locus. The more STR loci being used for typing, the greater the discrimination value since the likelihood that a single individual has an identical STR profile, that possesses the exact same number of repeat units for all the STR being analyzed, with another individual taken at random in the population becomes extremely rare. The STRs chosen and validated for typing for personal identification contain tetranucleotide repeats comprising of alleles of discrete size. Commercially robust and validated STR multiplex kits are available. The kits also include allelic ladder for each STR locus, which incorporates all the alleles of the STR locus so far known. This helps in the precise assignment of each allele and also in assigning the allele number. The microsatellite alleles for a particular locus are codominant. In a given individual there are 2 alleles which are inherited in a Mendelian fashion. This means that an individual receives one allele from the mother and the other allele from the father. The two alleles are either heterozygous - the alleles are different or, homozygous - both the alleles are of the same type. Currently, time and expense limit an examination of an individual’s entire genome, which would show unique identity. Due to the fact that DNA typing is only an examination of a DNA sample’s sequence and/or length at discrete locations, a match in DNA typing is always a statistical exercise. In order to determine the probability that a particular genotype might occur at random in a population, population data must be compiled to make an estimate of the frequency of each possible allele and genotype. Usually a sample size of greater than 100 is sufficient to make reliable projections about a genotype’s frequency in a larger population...." Population databases are compiled based on ethnic or racial groups. Population subdivisions are not taken into account in the distribution of alleles. The report {of the US National Research Council, 1996} further advocated that however, if a large number of loci are typed, the DNA profile obtained from the evidence can be so rare that it is highly likely that a suspect with a matching profile is the source of that evidence."**** **** https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3561883/ |
7th November 2019, 09:34 AM | #138 |
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People who send off for DNA kits often do so to find out about kinship or ancestry. However, the sequencing is exactly the same as in forensic criminology, just a different perspective. Loci are named and numbered and 'traits' listed depending of how your DNA from one parent matches up with another.
There are of course various types, autosomal, mitochondrial or STR's. The latter can be used to see how well related you are to Neanderthals, Neolithics and other ancient DNA. |
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7th November 2019, 10:11 AM | #139 |
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7th November 2019, 10:27 AM | #140 |
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In a thread titled "Who Killed Meredith Kercher?", the answer is obvious. Rudy Guede and no one else. |
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7th November 2019, 10:51 AM | #141 |
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Let's not get diverted with all this irrelevant talk of whether DNA reveals our ethnicity accurately. Numbers' point in bringing it up was to show that "it is not at all uncommon for persons of differing genetic, ethnic or national backgrounds to have some of the same alleles at some loci...". It was relevant because he showed how RS, AK, and RG shared alleles in the bra hook sample. Vixen diverted from that point to discussing if English, French and British ancestry can be distinguished from each other. How is that at all relevant to Number's point or to 165B?
Vixen, will you admit that 1. you have no evidence that Wikileaks found an email from Clinton saying she would look into the case? 2. that Vinci said there was some a)compatible* DNA of Knox on the bra, b) he did not say Knox's DNA was on the bra, and c) he concluded that the DNA could not be used to identify the donor? 3.Will you admit the David Balding's own computer program ruled out Knox's DNA was on the bra? *Remember that compatibility is not the same thing as matching. |
7th November 2019, 11:14 AM | #142 |
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Lukis Anderson's DNA was under murder victim Raveesh Kumra's fingernails. It's irrefutable. Anderson was convicted, and then exonerated, of the crime.
You want to take a wild guess why? https://www.pbs.org/wgbh/frontline/a...y-his-own-dna/ |
7th November 2019, 11:31 AM | #143 |
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'Compatibility' is always the term used in criminal forensics. Thus, if a fingerprint matches yours in at least 18 points it is said to be 'compatible' with yours, not 'it is yours' or 'it is not yours'. A statistical probability is expected. If it is ony a partial fingerprint then it will say so.
So when the criminal courts ruled the DNA was compatible with Sollecito, you know it's pretty damning. |
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7th November 2019, 11:33 AM | #144 |
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7th November 2019, 12:02 PM | #145 |
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Yes, that was my main point.
I also wanted to point out the difference between the STR DNA profiling method used in attempts to identify an individual to the SNP DNA comparison method used in attempts to estimate the ethnicity or nationality or the tendency for certain diseases in an individual. It may be of interest that NIST (the US Federal Government's National Institute of Standards and Technology) maintains a database of known STRs used for forensic purposes. Here's some information from their many web pages on the topic: "Tandemly repeated DNA sequences are widespread throughout the human genome and show sufficient variability among individuals in a population that they have become important in several fields including genetic mapping, linkage analysis, and human identity testing. These tandemly repeated regions of DNA are typically classified into several groups depending on the size of the repeat region. Minisatellites (variable number of tandem repeats, VNTRs) have core repeats with 9-80 bp, while microsatellites (short tandem repeats, STRs) contain 2-5 bp repeats. The forensic DNA community has moved primarily towards tetranucleotide repeats, which may be amplified using the polymerase chain reaction (PCR) with greater fidelity than dinucleotide repeats. The variety of alleles present in a population is such that a high degree of discrimination among individuals in the population may be obtained when multiple STR loci are examined." Source: https://strbase.nist.gov/intro.htm Neither STR nor SNP methods as practiced involve sequencing the genome; however, the development of both methods would not have been possible without the accomplishments of human genome sequencing research. |
7th November 2019, 12:36 PM | #146 |
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"Compatibility' is always the term used in criminal forensics."
Really? Massei Report:
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[quote]The only traces that yielded a genetic profile were traces A and B; trace A yielded the genetic profile of Knox and trace B yielded the genetic profile of the victim.[/QUOTE] pg 196
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Exactly where does the word "compatible" appear in these quotes from the Massei Court report? Stefanoni:
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Where is the word "compatible" in Stefanoni's quotes? |
7th November 2019, 12:41 PM | #147 |
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7th November 2019, 04:30 PM | #148 |
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Regarding HRC meeting with Cantwell, I've yet to find any information that an actual meeting ever took place. Perhaps Vixen can provide evidence of this? Or not.
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7th November 2019, 04:53 PM | #149 |
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It wouldn't even matter if the two HAD met to discuss the case, nor if anyone from the State Dept had communicated to Italy the US Government's interest in how its citizen's trial was being handled by the Italian criminal justice system. The only thing that would have mattered (and it would of course have been improper) is if the US Govt had placed the Italian judiciary under either explicit or implicit pressure to acquit Knox. There's absolutely zero evidence that this ever happened. Furthermore, it's not even as if the US has any levers it could use against Italy - even if it wanted to: the US does not provide any significant financial aid to Italy (therefore no possibility of threatening to withhold such aid), and matters such as defence and general trade come under the aegis of the European Union and not Italy (therefore likewise no possibility of threats against Italy specifically). On top of all that, in a liberalised democracy the judiciary is meant to (and is designed to) operate entirely independently of the executive and legislative branches of government, without fear or favour. So even if the US Government had somehow found a way to threaten the Italian Government, there should/would still have been zero reason for this to have affected the decision-making process of the Italian judiciary in this matter*. So no, there's 1) no evidence to suggest any improper interference by the US Government in this trial process, and 2) no feasible pathway for any such interference to have occurred in any case. * Unless, of course, Vixen wants to claim that the Italian criminal justice system is so broken, dysfunctional, corrupt and unlawfully craven to the executive that it based its judgements on what it was told to do by Italy's ruling politicians. But if Vixen IS suggesting such a scenario, maybe even she might figure out the double-bind that would place her in vis-a-vis the entire judicial process against Knox and Sollecito....... |
7th November 2019, 05:01 PM | #150 |
Penultimate Amazing
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Yes, but there's still irony to be found in Vixen attempting that analogy in respect of your example. Because to follow through on her analogy would be, in effect, to say that it's incorrect to claim that if a man lives to 108 then he cannot have smoked three packs of cigarettes a day since the age of eleven. In other words, to come back to our case, your contamination example only goes to illustrate that just because Sollecito's DNA was identified on the bra clasp, it's incorrect to claim that Sollecito must have had primary contact with the bra clasp. So ironically, Vixen's analogy has the unintended effect of having her argument hoist with its own petard...... |
7th November 2019, 05:05 PM | #151 |
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LJ, I agree 100%. I just find it interesting that Vixen claims that there is an email from Clinton agreeing to "look into" the case which no one, including her, can produce. Yet, she says I need instruction on how to search the internet and, when she is asked to provide said email, her response is "What am I, your nanny?"
ETA: I also agree with you post re her 'smoking' analogy. |
7th November 2019, 05:11 PM | #152 |
Penultimate Amazing
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I trust that you also loved my most excellent Shakespeare quote at the end of my previous post
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7th November 2019, 05:21 PM | #153 |
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7th November 2019, 07:44 PM | #154 |
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No it isn't. All compatibility means is, well, that it is compatible. It doesn't mean it is a match. Things that match are damning - but even then not conclusive. Things that are compatible mean you don't rule out that there might be a match, but there still needs to be that second something-or-other that proves a match.
And even if it is a match, that still does not mean that primary contact is conclusive. Unless those wishing to prove that it is conclusive can rule out some contamination event, then the whole thing collapses as safe evidence. Like when Stefanoni had to admit under oath that she herself could not rule out that she'd touched the bra-clasp with obviously dirty gloves. Like is evidenced by the picture her own staff took of the bra-clasp collection. |
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In a thread titled "Who Killed Meredith Kercher?", the answer is obvious. Rudy Guede and no one else. |
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7th November 2019, 08:42 PM | #155 |
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Vixen needs to understand the difference between something that is 'compatible' and a 'match'. For example, the kitchen knife was 'compatible' with the largest wound on Kercher, but that does not mean it was the knife that actually inflicted the wound. Many unserrated knives could have also made that wound, including the one that left its outline on the sheet. Lalli originally told Mignini he thought only one knife made all the wounds. The two knife scenario was invented by Mignini.
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8th November 2019, 12:49 AM | #156 |
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who claims the soulless Who speaks for the forgotten dead ~ Danzig |
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8th November 2019, 12:51 AM | #157 |
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who claims the soulless Who speaks for the forgotten dead ~ Danzig |
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8th November 2019, 12:53 AM | #158 |
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who claims the soulless Who speaks for the forgotten dead ~ Danzig |
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8th November 2019, 03:58 AM | #159 |
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Instead of you asking me incessant questions, what about if you attempt to answer some of mine?
Will you be questioning the integrity of the forensic scientists in the Grace Spillane case? If not, why not?
Quote:
You constantly claim anyone associated with the prosecution in the Kercher case is unqualified, unprofessional, corrupt and their results 'all wrong'. Does this only apply to Amanda Knox but not to Myra Hindley, Jodie Arias, Rose West? Was Knox spectacularly unlucky to draw such a short straw? Conversely, perhaps it's the case everybody is marching in step except you and your cohorts. |
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who claims the soulless Who speaks for the forgotten dead ~ Danzig |
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8th November 2019, 07:05 AM | #160 |
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The pro-guilt psychology is that if you can't nail K&S with evidence, don't presume innocence, try something else. |
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