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12th November 2019, 12:31 PM | #241 |
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who claims the soulless Who speaks for the forgotten dead ~ Danzig |
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12th November 2019, 12:51 PM | #242 |
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12th November 2019, 02:20 PM | #243 |
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In a thread titled "Who Killed Meredith Kercher?", the answer is obvious. Rudy Guede and no one else. |
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12th November 2019, 02:21 PM | #244 |
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In a thread titled "Who Killed Meredith Kercher?", the answer is obvious. Rudy Guede and no one else. |
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12th November 2019, 03:05 PM | #245 |
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False. Stefanoni claimed to have found Kercher's DNA on the knife. In a striation no one, including her, could later find. In an analysis that she could not repeat which is required for LCN confirmation. On a knife that had zero blood on it which would only be possible if soaked in bleach which would eliminate any DNA. Which two independent, court appointed experts declared that they "do not accept the conclusions regarding the certain attribution of the profile found on trace B (blade of knife) to the victim Meredith Susanna Cara Kercher, since the genetic profile, as obtained, appears unreliable insofar as it is not supported by scientifically validated analysis..."
A sample that two independent, court appointed experts and many of the world's leading forensic experts said was highly indicative of contamination. A conclusion that the ISC agreed with. Your repeated use of "underwear" instead of "bra hook" does not escape me. The reason for you to do so is no mystery. Nice try. What you deliberately leave out is that the defense did, successfully, argue how it got there: by contamination. |
14th November 2019, 06:10 PM | #246 |
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I always look for (dis)similarities in cases that pop up in the news. From a recent homicide investigation surrounding a missing woman named Jennifer Rothwell:
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Corroborating evidence creates a strong web of proof that solves a case. I hope Vixen can learn by example. |
14th November 2019, 07:25 PM | #247 |
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"wet carpet soaked with bleach"
If a carpet was soaked in bleach it would also be very discolored. They would be able to see it besides it being wet. ETA: We have to remember all that evidence of a clean up the prosecution presented in court in Italy.... oh.....wait.....never mind. |
15th November 2019, 05:03 AM | #248 |
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The flooring at Via Pergola 7 was terracotta tiling (possibly fake). However, a set of one-sided footprints were highlighted, together with the bare feet of Knox and Sollecito, when luminol was applied.
Plus there is only two thirds of a bloodied footprint on the bathmat. You don't need to be a genius to spot there was a clean up. Police testified there was a 'strong smell of bleach' when they entered Raff's apartment. In the world of Bagels the police are also bent. |
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15th November 2019, 05:05 AM | #249 |
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who claims the soulless Who speaks for the forgotten dead ~ Danzig |
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15th November 2019, 05:23 AM | #250 |
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In the world of Vixen, the Italian courts are bent, and easily influenced by Mafia-led, Mason-financied, American-media directing conspiracies.
By the way, in what way does bleach smell at Raffaele's have to do with a murder 4 days' previous? Aside from this, your post above is a word salad that doesn't mean anything, much less point to anything. |
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In a thread titled "Who Killed Meredith Kercher?", the answer is obvious. Rudy Guede and no one else. |
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15th November 2019, 05:29 AM | #251 |
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"The way we vote will depend, ultimately, on whether we are persuaded to hope or to fear." - Aonghas MacNeacail, June 2012. |
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15th November 2019, 05:47 AM | #252 |
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15th November 2019, 05:51 AM | #253 |
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15th November 2019, 09:12 AM | #254 |
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15th November 2019, 09:27 AM | #255 |
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And you mention this because?
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15th November 2019, 10:11 AM | #256 |
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...or why wasn't the bathmat clean and wet with bleach when found?
Specific to the story bagels posted, a REAL clean-up leaves very obvious signs. If there had been a clean-up, that print wouldn't have been on the mat and the mat would have been soaked with either water or bleach. This continues to be one of the major flaws in the pro-guilt argument. They are very selective in their interpretation. That there was no heel print on the tile is, to them, clear indication of a clean-up, yet they ignore that the rest of the bloody print on the mat remained untouched, which is a clear indication there wasn't a clean-up. |
15th November 2019, 10:41 AM | #257 |
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Don't forget the poop in the toilet. Clear sign of a clean up.
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15th November 2019, 10:47 AM | #258 |
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Some relevant statements from the Royal Society, from their publication Forensic DNA analysis: a primer for courts, November 2017, by the Royal Society and the Royal Society of Edinburgh in conjunction with the Judicial College, the Judicial Institute, and the Judicial Studies Board for Northern Ireland:
"Laboratories recognise that contamination can occur between people, consumables and other items in the forensic process. The working practices of labs are geared to prevent contamination and to detect it, should it happen. The use of appropriate controls and testing provides assurances that the general risks of contamination are minimised. Even with all these precautions, the sensitivity of DNA profiling methods means that sometimes contaminating DNA will still be seen. This may either be as a complete or nearly complete profile, or merely one or two peaks (alleles). In the latter case, this type of very minimal contamination is known as ‘drop-in.’ A suggestion that contamination has adversely affected any particular case is dealt with by assessing the information available relating to the continuity of the specific evidence and evaluating particular scenarios." (p. 32-33) "If there is a perfect match between the STR profiles of two DNA samples, then there are three possible explanations: 1. the suspect is the source of the material at the crime scene 2. the material came from a second person who has an identical DNA profile 3. the match is a false positive due to a sample switch or some other kind of error {for example, contamination}." (p. 34) Relevance: Stefanoni provided no information on how her lab avoided or minimized contamination. She refused to provide raw DNA data and she refused to provide the results from almost all of the control samples; this is the information required to evaluate the possibility of contamination. From DVD images provided by the police, it is clear that key samples, including the bra clasp, were collected improperly, in a way that would tend to result in contamination. Stefanoni arbitrarily ran DNA profiling one key sample that showed DNA "too low" to be detectable (on her non-validated measuring equipment) while not running DNA profiling on other samples producing that "too low". The collected key DNA evidence items (bra clasp and knife) were not stored properly prior to lab analysis - that is, they were stored in ways that could increase the probability of contamination. The chain of custody transfers for the DNA evidence were not properly documented. Stefanoni misinterpreted results (the electropherograms of the DNA profiling) by intentionally not calling out DNA allele peaks that did not match the DNA profile of Sollecito on the bra clasp. Those additional not otherwise explained peaks, from several males (they were detected in the profiling of the Y chromosome STRs), mean that that the DNA allegedly obtained from the bra clasp was contaminated. DNA quantification results, of the few supplied by Stefanoni, from several of the controls (negative and positive) showed contamination. As noted in the Royal Society primer, a DNA match of two distinct profiles - on all loci tested - has potential value as evidence, if possibilities (2) or (3) can be eliminated. A partial "match" of the STRs for some loci, where the other STR loci don't match, means that the DNA came from two different individuals. Source: https://royalsociety.org/-/media/abo...for-courts.pdf |
15th November 2019, 12:22 PM | #259 |
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One further comment on the DNA testing and analysis of the knife and bra clasp as conducted and reported by Stefanoni:
Conti and Vecchiotti, consultants for the Hellmann Court of Appeal (not for the defense), provided a report on Stefanoni's methods, results, and data interpretations. The C-V report* was devastating to the prosecution of Knox and Sollecito. C and V did some technical examinations that cast serious doubts on her results, but their technical review of Stefanoni's work and results were entirely convincing. While PGP may claim that the C-V report was somehow quashed when the Chieffi CSC panel quashed the Hellmann Appeal Court's provisional acquittal, this is false. The C-V report remains in the file as evidence. Furthermore, the points raised by C-V relate to Stefanoni's work and results, which also remain in the file. Thus, any unbiased expert in DNA profiling can view Stefanoni's work and results and will necessarily reach the same conclusions as C-V. For example, the extra peaks in the bra clasp Y-DNA results are clear and convincing evidence of additional unknown males contributing DNA to those results. Given the nature of the evidence, including its defects in chain of custody and handling, and the prosecution theory of the crime, that can only mean that the bra clasp results show contamination. That is, there can be no precise certainty that Sollecito touched the clasp. Therefore, under Italian law, the clasp "evidence" cannot be used to infer a "fact" to be used against Sollecito. *See: https://knoxdnareport.files.wordpres...ti-report2.pdf This version of the translation includes tables and figures taken from Stefanoni's data that are highly useful in following the arguments of C-V showing the defects in the data. |
15th November 2019, 12:33 PM | #260 |
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To be precise, Filomena's room floor was not terracotta tiling but terrazzo.
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The police did smell something: Lysoform. They were just wrong in their assumption of its source. |
15th November 2019, 12:58 PM | #261 |
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What nonsense! 'Flash' is an all purpose cleaning product. It is NOT what we call "bleach". Bleach is not a 'color brightener'. You don't use bleach with any fabric color other than white unless you want to strip the color.
Flash ingredients: <5% Anionic Surfactants, Non-Ionic Surfactants, Phosphonates, Benzisothiazolinone, Perfumes, Citral, Citronellol, Geraniol, Hexyl cinnamal, Limonene, Linalool Chlorine bleach usually contains sodium hypochlorite. Oxygen bleach contains hydrogen peroxide or a peroxide-releasing compound such as sodium perborate or sodium percarbonate. |
15th November 2019, 01:17 PM | #262 |
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Of course, one could forgive the police for coming to an incorrect conclusion, but for the prosecution and the pro-guilt community to continue to repeat this conclusion after it was determined the cleaning lady had cleaned the house using lysoform the day before the visit by the police, speaks to the intellectual honesty, if not the desperation of these people.
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15th November 2019, 02:00 PM | #263 |
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15th November 2019, 02:05 PM | #264 |
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Vecchiotti and Conti unethcially and unprofessionally advocated for the defence. Vecchiotti was caught red-handed by the Carabinieri making a CD video for the defence; the pair were seen wining and dining with Maori, Sollecito's counsel and were seen warmly greeting members of the Sollecito family (Vanessa, Francesco) in court.
In England that would have contravened Bar Standards and they would have been struck off. They even appeared in the Neflix film, with Conti openly advocating for the pair. |
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15th November 2019, 02:09 PM | #265 |
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15th November 2019, 03:41 PM | #266 |
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Cleaning laboratory bench surfaces (2 cm2 samples), previously intentionally coated with known amounts of DNA, with a sodium hypochlorite solution* can remove all traces of amplifiable DNA, according to this article:
https://www.fsigeneticssup.com/artic...269-X/fulltext Decrease DNA contamination in the laboratories * Contained in the commercially available bleach "Klorrent"** ** https://mediacache3.icmsafety.com/v-...1664756_gb.pdf One important point - the bleach treatment prevented any DNA on the surfaces from being detected by amplification under PCR. It would be impossible to selectively clean an individual's DNA from a crime scene, because there is no way to distinguish the DNA or cells of one person from another without specialized laboratory equipment and chemicals, and, of course, appropriate training. |
15th November 2019, 04:09 PM | #267 |
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"Found a typo? You can keep it..." |
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15th November 2019, 04:31 PM | #268 |
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In a thread titled "Who Killed Meredith Kercher?", the answer is obvious. Rudy Guede and no one else. |
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15th November 2019, 04:34 PM | #269 |
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In a thread titled "Who Killed Meredith Kercher?", the answer is obvious. Rudy Guede and no one else. |
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15th November 2019, 04:35 PM | #270 |
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The police interviewed Quintavalle (among other shops in the area) after arresting Raff and discovering a large supply of bleach. He told them he did not see Amanda or Raffaele in his store anytime after the murder. Raffaele's maid testified the bleach was there long before the murder. Nobody claimed to smell bleach or any cleaning products at the actual crime scene, and there were large visible prints all over, ie there wasn't a cleanup.
There's a phrase for evidence that doesn't lead to corroboration: a dead end. The guilter (and prosecution) approach to this case is to stack together a dozen+ dead ends and go "combined they actually go somewhere, somehow." In fact I literally think Chieffi or someone makes that argument. |
15th November 2019, 04:36 PM | #271 |
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In a thread titled "Who Killed Meredith Kercher?", the answer is obvious. Rudy Guede and no one else. |
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15th November 2019, 04:36 PM | #272 |
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15th November 2019, 05:15 PM | #273 |
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I feel like I'm in the movie Groundhog Day. Your claim regarding the CD has already been disproved but, like the movie, let's relive it again. From last December (link at bottom of page):
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15th November 2019, 05:54 PM | #274 |
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Back to the "wining and dining" false claim again, I see.
From Barbie Nadeau's book, Angel Face:
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Maori sidles up to Prof. Vecchiotti and whispers to her: Pssssst, Carla...I can call you Carla, can't I? Here's a nice espresso. If you play your cards right, there could be more of these for you in the future. Wink, wink. Nudge, nudge. I'd bet you can't provide any actual evidence that Maori was "wining and dining" Conti and Vecchiotti. I'd bet you took that Nadeau quote and gave it the Vixen Special Spin. I'd also bet that you did the exact same thing with your "(C & V) were seen warmly greeting members of the Sollecito family (Vanessa, Francesco) in court" bit. Wanna prove me wrong? You know how: provide evidence. |
15th November 2019, 06:03 PM | #275 |
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Relating the facts as found by C&V (and many other forensic experts) is not 'besmirching' Stefanoni.
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15th November 2019, 06:07 PM | #276 |
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Yep. Firstly, you've got to love Nadeau's evidence-free hearsay along the lines of "oh I hear that several journalists say they saw...." And secondly, as you point out, it's absolutely no evidence of malpractice whatsoever even if Vecchiotti had talked with Maori and had one or more cups of coffee with him. For Nadeau to have claimed that such hearsay "evidence", if true, somehow compromised Vecchiotti's position or her professional integrity is laughable - and it's yet another indicator of exactly how poor and unbalanced a stringer Nadeau is/was. |
15th November 2019, 06:19 PM | #277 |
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Exactly. The pro-guilt mentality on this issue (and others) seems to be that the only way anyone involved with the prosecution of Knox and Sollecito might be wrong is if they were actively trying to frame the two. And I think the pro-guilt community know exactly what they're doing by creating this stupid strawman: they are deliberately creating a false dichotomy. Maybe it helps them to rationalise the situation as well..... But as you correctly point out, there's absolutely no need for any "framing" to be at work here*. All there needs to be (and what there actually is in this instance) is incompetence, improper suspect-centric analysis, confirmation bias and tunnel vision. Stefanoni patently had no idea about how to perform low-template DNA analysis correctly, and she then went on to lie, divert and obfuscate about how she'd arrived at her "results" and the accuracy/reliability of her findings. And - as you also point out above - she and her team of goons manifestly had no idea about how to collect forensic evidence at a crime scene. Fortunately for justice, they took a video which exposed the egregious failings at the crime scene - failings which virtually ensured that much of Stefanoni's consequent lab work was entirely lacking in reliability and credibility before she even started. * Although I would say that a very low-level and insidious form of "framing" almost certainly did take place in this case: Stefanoni was told exactly whom the police and PM wanted to find incriminating evidence against, and she was a colleague of the police. She also seemed to be a particular favourite of Mignini's for some reason (I suspect I may know at least in part the reason....). It's not really that hard to see how Stefanoni, in that context, might have had an incentive to give the PM and police the evidence they wanted. |
16th November 2019, 12:42 AM | #278 |
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From my post #273 above:
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16th November 2019, 04:35 AM | #279 |
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There is film footage of Conti doing exactly that. In the frame includes sister Vanessa, dad Francesco and lawyer Maori.
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16th November 2019, 04:40 AM | #280 |
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Imagine if Inspector Knacker of the Yard warmly greeted Ian Huntley or Levi Bellfield in court...?
Yet in the world of the FOAker all of this is perfectly normal. |
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